How much does where you do fellowship affect where you'll get a job? In terms of location and/or prestige.

[nycradres]

I am going for body imaging, and it doesn't seem super competitive. However, there are no rankings, and I can only go off rumors and hearsay, it feels like.

If I want to work in a particular city or area, would it be much better for me to do fellowship there, even if people have called those programs "low tier" or whatever? I don't know how to gauge em, they're all big names...

I don't want to chase the name, I want to chase good training, but I also want to be able to get a job in the right location for my family.

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[scoopdaboop]

Pretty sure the general consensus is that location of where you do training and meeting people, building connections with them is more of a factor than any brand name unless you wanna do academics.

 

[nycradres]

That's kind of what I figured as well. But also, one year of fellowship feels like I need to really identify where I'll be able to make the most of that.

 

[guytakingboards]

In general that's probably true from a connections-standpoint. But if you know any specific groups you want to interview with down the line, then look up their Rad list and see if they tend to take local people or people from name programs.

Even some private groups recruit mostly name-brand interviewees.

 

[todipotent]

I would go to a name brand program in the region where you wanted to live after training.

After I narrowed the region and the academic name brand programs down, I would ask these questions:
1. Where do the graduates go?
2. What type of training do they get such as all MR/CT, how much US and the type of US training, what types of procedures the body/AI section does (some do a lot, some do very little)?
3. How much call do fellows take and is it all section specific call or do they take general call as well (general call can keep you fresh on all modalities but often more work/more of a pain)?
4. Is the training all abdominal imaging or is the Body section both Chest and Abdominal imaging?

Those are probably the most objective questions you can ask and can probably help create your rank list. I recently finished fellowship and stayed at my home institution so I didn't actually interview elsewhere and did not really have to take part in the match so I cannot really comment on what the interviewing elsewhere is like.

Good luck

 

[2brads]

Very important. One of the recruiting companies (Merritt Hawkins maybe?) sends stats each year showing fellowship location and first job location are highly correlated; like 70% of all fellows get their first job within 100 miles of fellowship. These aren’t the exact numbers but it’s in the ballpark. Obviously this has no bearding on future job locations but if you want to work somewhere after fellowship then i would definitely try to land a local fellowship.

 

[nycradres]

That is another important question I had. For me, location is very important, so I am only applying in a maybe 100-150 mile radius from where I want to be. Like, isn't that local enough? There are so many considerations and I feel like back when I was a med student...not really knowing what's important or what to ask. For body specifically. Some are MRI only, which is cool, but I imagine 9/10 places are going to expect me to be a competent subspecialist in ALL body modalities, so I don't wanna skimp on US and CT training.

Thank you for all the advice, I appreciate it.

 

[nauru]

I was also wondering this. What is the relationship between residency prestige and fellowship prestige? Is the fellowship more important in terms of determining where you end up in terms of practice? It seems to be already established that it's a primary determinant of practice location, but is residency or fellowship more important in determining what opportunities are available to you?

(I would expect bigger name residencies place graduates into bigger name fellowships more easily, but I'm wondering about any additional effects beyond this)

 

[2brads]

Residency name is more important. There are way more fellowship positions than residency slots at almost every academic institution. That being said, if you want a certain location, then local fellowships may have a degree of local prestige.

 

[nauru]

Ok. So even if you go to a top level fellowship, if your residency wasn't from a top level place then some doors are closed post-fellowship?

 

[2brads]

Not necessarily, but if it’s down to two candidates who both have big name fellowships and one went to East Cupcake community for residency and the other went to Harvard, guess who gets the job?

 

[Kuratz]

Disagree. If the applicant wants to practice near East Cupcake then that’s arguably the best choice. Some random private practice not in New England or without alumni could give a rip if someone trained at Harvard.

 

[clutch21]

Disagree. If the applicant wants to practice near East Cupcake then that’s arguably the best choice. Some random private practice not in New England or without alumni could give a rip if someone trained at Harvard.

Agreed. If all else is equal (which virtually never happens), then name might make a small difference. The chance of it actually making a difference in reality is very low. Prioritizing program rank lists based on name, rather than fit, is a mistake often made by applicants.

 

[2brads]

I was just answering the question: Which matters more as regards prestige - residency or fellowship? If literally everything else is equal (they're both from East Cupcake, etc), residency matters more.

 

[guytakingboards]

I was also wondering this. What is the relationship between residency prestige and fellowship prestige? Is the fellowship more important in terms of determining where you end up in terms of practice? It seems to be already established that it's a primary determinant of practice location, but is residency or fellowship more important in determining what opportunities are available to you?

(I would expect bigger name residencies place graduates into bigger name fellowships more easily, but I'm wondering about any additional effects beyond this)

Keep in mind that when you're applying for a job early in the fellowship year, you probably haven't developed particularly strong relationships with your faculty. The 3-4 months of time with the fellowship crew is far outshadowed by the 4 years you spent with your residency faculty.

I did a mid-tier academic program and name-brand fellowship (far away from where i took a job), and i don't think the name-brand fellowship particularly helped a lot in the job hunt.

 

[bluelamin]

im from said east cupcake

 

[thatsrad]

Things are never “all else being equal.” What matters 10x more in community practice than fellowship location is your personality and what you’re willing to do. Team player? Cover mamms? Good communication skills? Will work well to keep referrers happy and foster good relationships with hospitals? Etc. Those things are pretty easy to differentiate during job interviews.

 

[2brads]

I agree it’s a philosophical debate since one person can’t be in two fellowships at the same time. Agree personality and work ethic is most important. No one is arguing that point here. I will say that in my opinion, the interview is a terrible indicator of someone’s eventual failure or success, particularly in private practice. The interview is the lowest bar to pass; speak English fluently, don’t curse, don’t get drunk. It is the step 2 CS of getting a job. Far more important is high praise from respected colleagues. I have had breast trained folks say “oh yeah, I can read 10-20% general too.” Then they go hide when a negative dvt study or head ct comes down. That’s just one example among many when it comes to people blowing smoke during the interview.

 

[guytakingboards]

Things are never “all else being equal.” What matters 10x more in community practice than fellowship location is your personality and what you’re willing to do. Team player? Cover mamms? Good communication skills? Will work well to keep referrers happy and foster good relationships with hospitals? Etc. Those things are pretty easy to differentiate during job interviews.

lol, no those are absolutely not easy things to differentiate during an interview. If that were the case no residency would have bad residents and no group would have bad partners.