how much has obamacare cost america ?

[harmonious]

in dollars, and any other ways you can think of ?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Lamel]

It costs us our freedom.

 

[Narmerguy]

in dollars, and any other ways you can think of ?

In dollars? The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office analysis has said for years (and continues to say, as of May 2014) that the ACA will reduce the deficit. This is, like any other number, a projection and could still be wrong. A lot of assumptions go into these analyses, but I'm not an economist and can't comment if these are realistic/avoidable.

 

[el_duderino]

Millions more Americans have health insurance now.

 

[deleted407021]

Millions more Americans have health insurance now.

Not to mention many of us students may stay on our parent's insurance longer, should we need to. I think we need more time to see how well it will work. The one problem I have is that it was passed despite a clear majority saying they didn't want it. That's not how America works. Even if it is in our best interest, if we so "no", it means " no".

 

[Redpancreas]

in dollars, and any other ways you can think of ?

By cutting unnecessary Medicare costs Bush implemented, we lower administrative costs substantially. This is what's supposed to result in the policy being a net cost-saver according to the Congressional Budget Office. In terms of taxation and the potential dead-weight loss, who knows. You can mix partisan/subjective feelings into the mix there...

Asking such a broad, pessimistic question seems to imply you have homework to do on the issue.

 

[talinnlove]

Medicaid expansion (for the states that opted for it) seems to be having a strong positive impact on the newly-eligible adult group. They can visit the doctor for no premium, copay, coinsurance, or deductible to worry about. They even get dental care now... If they can find a dentist who takes their insurance, which is a Herculean task in itself. And if they can navigate all the ridiculous technological barriers created by using unintuitive, barely-functional websites to enroll in Medicaid. So it's good/bad at the same time.

For US citizen or LPR adults near but over 138% FPL, I think we should disabuse them of the notion that they're getting any sort of effective insurance coverage. Sure there's no monthly premium for a $0 QHP, but those plans have 5k, 6k, or even 7k in deductibles and even more expenses before they reach their annual out of pocket maximum. That's not affordable coverage for someone living at 140% FPL.

 

[Flashfan]

I live in a state that didn't implement the expanded Medicaid. It is costing us so much more than you can imagine. I work at a free clinic that is thriving at a time when other states are closing theirs. Call me a liberal A-hole all you want, but I grew up poor and often relied on sliding scale medical practitioners. I have a relative that still can't afford a hysterectomy after saving for 3 years.

 

[deleted407021]

@talinnlove I'm aware that at least one state (I'm not certain which), which expanded Medicaid managed to generate more PCP visits and lower the number of ER visits whilst saving a large amount of state dollars. I'll look around for the npr article.

 

[masaraksh]

About 3.5 Eric Cantors

 

[talinnlove]

@talinnlove I'm aware that at least one state (I'm not certain which), which expanded Medicaid managed to generate more PCP visits and lower the number of ER visits whilst saving a large amount of state dollars. I'll look around for the npr article.

I've heard the same things, which is heartening - I live in WA, which has an awesome adult Medicaid program (Washington Apple Health). Unfortunately, at the level of individual patients, the implementation of the ACA via Washington HealthPlanFinder was so poorly wrought that patients who would otherwise benefit from expanded Medicaid are being shut out by the very system designed to aid them.

For instance, even something as small as the fact that every person who wants to apply for health care coverage for themselves or their family needs a registered, functional email address. Not so bad to those of us who grew up with the Internet, but this is a serious barrier for the computer illiterate, or for adults who don't have personal computer access. There are so many other things like that - kids on Medicaid who get their coverage terminated because the "renew" button on HPF is a broken link that hasn't been fixed sense October. Or the fact that there was a 2.5 hour on-hold time to reach HPF customer service during open enrollment (again, prohibitive if your cell phone only has 200-odd prepaid minutes per month from the Basic Food program). The list goes on and on.

For the folks that can navigate the system through luck or skill, Medicaid expansion has unquestionably improved health care access and efficacy. However, I can't help but worry about all the patients who are being denied access due to bureaucratic or technical errors, or patients on QHPs who think they have effective coverage, but will be financially crippled by doctor's bills when they actually try to use that coverage because no one explained to them what it means to have a $7k deductible.

I'm ambivalent I guess - but I'm admittedly a pessimist. I just had such high hopes for the PPACA, and I've seen so many letdowns that sometimes it's hard to see the good that's come from it.

 

[deleted407021]

I've heard the same things, which is heartening - I live in WA, which has an awesome adult Medicaid program (Washington Apple Health). Unfortunately, at the level of individual patients, the implementation of the ACA via Washington HealthPlanFinder was so poorly wrought that patients who would otherwise benefit from expanded Medicaid are being shut out by the very system designed to aid them.

For instance, even something as small as the fact that every person who wants to apply for health care coverage for themselves or their family needs a registered, functional email address. Not so bad to those of us who grew up with the Internet, but this is a serious barrier for the computer illiterate, or for adults who don't have personal computer access. There are so many other things like that - kids on Medicaid who get their coverage terminated because the "renew" button on HPF is a broken link that hasn't been fixed sense October. There was a 2.5 hour on-hold time to reach HPF customer service during open enrollment (again, prohibitive if your cell phone only has 200 prepaid minutes per month from the Basic Food program). The list goes on and on.

For the folks that can navigate the system though luck or skill, Medicaid expansion has unquestionably improved health care access and efficacy. However, I can't help but worry about all the patients who are being denied access due to bureaucratic or technical errors, or patients on QHPs who think they have effective coverage, but will be financially crippled by doctor's bills when they actually try to use that coverage.

I'm ambivalent I guess - but I'm admittedly a pessimist. I just had such high hopes for the PPACA, and I've seen so many letdowns that sometimes it's hard to see the good that's come from it.

I agree there has been poor implementation across the board. A lack of Medicaid expansion in my state has been an issue. People with no dependents who are too young for Medicare are just out of luck unless we can get them into our free clinic. We did have a few patients who succeeded in getting coverage through the ACA, but not many.

 

[LMBLBM]

Not considering the net productivity gained by more healthy American's, it will increase the net income tax between 3 to 10 percent depends on various sources. Some source even says 1.3 trillion dollars for next ten years. Don't forget that good portion of population paid extra after Obama care is implemented.

 

[LMBLBM]

Let's not forget that nothing is free. Napkins taken from restaurants, littering, cheating on exam, food stamps and etc. When we help poor, we have to help them with professional manner and well constructed blue prints to help more with less resources

 

[thesauce]

Millions more Americans have health insurance now.

Right. The sick ones that couldn't get it before. Not that that's a bad thing, but it does cost money to pay for their care.

 

[kk123]

Well, Obamacare has cost my family more money. Not only did our cost of health insurance go up but also it doesn't cover as much as it used to.
It also has affected small businesses, costing them more money. As a result, some of us who work for small businesses are getting smaller bonuses and no raises.
Moreover, people who do not jump on the obamacare bandwagon are going to get fined.
As LMBLBM said...nothing is free.

 

[thesauce]

In dollars? The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office analysis has said for years (and continues to say, as of May 2014) that the ACA will reduce the deficit. This is, like any other number, a projection and could still be wrong. A lot of assumptions go into these analyses, but I'm not an economist and can't comment if these are realistic/avoidable.

These are idealistic projections. Anyone who has worked for the government knows the mounting costs and administrative hassles they enact for even the most mundane tasks. More and more bureaucratic red tape will be added each and every year without fail.

Every government program that has ever been enacted is in shambles and, for some reason, people forget this every few years and pass another one.

 

[Deadlifts]

@talinnlove I'm aware that at least one state (I'm not certain which), which expanded Medicaid managed to generate more PCP visits and lower the number of ER visits whilst saving a large amount of state dollars. I'll look around for the npr article.

Oregon saw a 40% increase in ED utilization with its Medicaid lottery. I'd be curious to see which states, if any, had a reduction in emergency department use when it doesn't cost the user.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

@DermViser, what are you thoughts?

 

[deleted407021]

Oregon saw a 40% increase in ED utilization with its Medicaid lottery. I'd be curious to see which states, if any, had a reduction in emergency department use when it doesn't cost the user.

I keep looking for the article, but I cannot seem to find it. I heard this on NPR about 3 weeks ago. I recall it was Indiana, perhaps? I think they just did expand Medicaid, though.

 

[NickNaylor]

Right. The sick ones that couldn't get it before. Not that that's a bad thing, but it does cost money to pay for their care.

Exactly - there's seem to be some kind of separation between "but we expanded Medicaid, gave kids the ability to stay on their parents' plans, and provided people with insurance" and the reality that all of these things cost money. Your insurance provider doesn't continue covering kids out of the goodness of their hearts - that cost is being made up somewhere (if at all - why wouldn't an insurance company gladly collect premiums on beneficiaries that are usually healthy and require minimal medical care?).

As @thesauce says, these are not necessarily bad things. But they are additional costs nonetheless. Only time will tell how everything ends up shaking out. My guess is that it'll end up costing much more, if only because the program is being stymied at every possibly juncture by (largely) GOP people at the federal and state level.

 

[Deadlifts]

I keep looking for the article, but I cannot seem to find it. I heard this on NPR about 3 weeks ago. I recall it was Indiana, perhaps? I think they just did expand Medicaid, though.

Indiana is an interesting case because they started with a Healthy Indiana plan when Mitch Daniels was in office that implemented true HSA options for state workers and some others. Pence may claim he is not expanding Medicaid with his Healthy Indiana 2.0 or whatever but honestly he is.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Exactly - there's seem to be some kind of separation between "but we expanded Medicaid, gave kids the ability to stay on their parents' plans, and provided people with insurance" and the reality that all of these things cost money. Your insurance provider doesn't continue covering kids out of the goodness of their hearts - that cost is being made up somewhere (if at all - why wouldn't an insurance company gladly collect premiums on beneficiaries that are usually healthy and require minimal medical care?).

As @thesauce says, these are not necessarily bad things. But they are additional costs nonetheless. Only time will tell how everything ends up shaking out. My guess is that it'll end up costing much more, if only because the program is being stymied at every possibly juncture by (largely) GOP people at the federal and state level.

I wonder how this would all look if the efforts were more bi-partisan.

 

[deanthedream17]

Millions more Americans have health insurance now.

But the country is severely in debt and our beautiful healthcare is becoming a socialist state.

 

[NickNaylor]

But the country is severely in debt and our beautiful healthcare is becoming a socialist state.

I'm not sure I would be calling our healthcare system "beautiful," but ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deanthedream17]

Millions more Americans have health insurance now.

Apparently we have a low of liberal commi on this forum

 

[deanthedream17]

I'm not sure I would be calling our healthcare system "beautiful," but ok.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where else in the world can you go for the most advanced medical treatment, the best hospitals, the center for drug development. People all over the world come here to receive medical care. Obamacare and socialized medicine suck it leads to long wait times and inferior treatment. Look at canada. People need to get private insurance to be able to receive care in a timely manner.

 

[DokterMom]

It costs us our freedom.

Can you please explain how you lost your freedom @Lamel?

The only freedom I lost was the freedom to shop around from an unlimited variety of care providers, because when your insurance pays for virtually nothing, there's no point in staying within some network. Now I'm limited to a few hundred providers in my immediate area, only some of whom I was using already.

I guess if I'm being really picky, I also lost the ability to negotiate costs with the hospitals our family visited, because when you're starting from the charge list (Is that what they call their "nobody actually pays this" list?) there's lots of room to negotiate on price. But then, those are sacrifices I willingly chose to make for my $25 co-pay and 90% coverage.

I guess I also lost my handy excuse for neglecting important preventative tests, because now if they do discover a treatable cancer, I can afford to have it treated without bankrupting my family and precluding me from every securing insurance coverage again.

And again, if I'm being picky, I did lose a major source of cocktail party outrage. When it comes to healthcare, I no longer have anything to complain about... Rats!

 

[NickNaylor]

Where else in the world can you go for the most advanced medical treatment, the best hospitals, the center for drug development. People all over the world come here to receive medical care. Obamacare and socialized medicine suck it leads to long wait times and inferior treatment. Look at canada. People need to get private insurance to be able to receive care in a timely manner.

Yeah, for people that can afford that care. That's the whole problem. It's not that America doesn't have high quality healthcare or outstanding resources available for use. It's the fact that that care and those resources aren't accessible by a significant portion of the population that is problematic.

The healthcare system is "beautiful" only if you're fine with poverty essentially being a death sentence or a sentence of a crappy life due to medical conditions and corporate interests (hospitals, insurance companies, device companies, pharm companies) pillaging everyone for every dollar they've got.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Oregon saw a 40% increase in ED utilization with its Medicaid lottery. I'd be curious to see which states, if any, had a reduction in emergency department use when it doesn't cost the user.

I keep looking for the article, but I cannot seem to find it. I heard this on NPR about 3 weeks ago. I recall it was Indiana, perhaps? I think they just did expand Medicaid, though.

This one?
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...nsion-boosted-emergency-room-visits-in-oregon

 

[DokterMom]

Where else in the world can you go for the most advanced medical treatment, the best hospitals, the center for drug development. People all over the world come here to receive medical care. Obamacare and socialized medicine suck it leads to long wait times and inferior treatment. Look at canada. People need to get private insurance to be able to receive care in a timely manner.

I'm not sure where this 'timely care' idea got started, because it really isn't all that true. Several times, I've had to wait six months or for an appointment with a specialist in a major US city. And it wasn't due to insurance-network limitations. This was private pay, full retail $$.

While visiting Canada, we never had to wait for anything. In and out of the ER, fully treated, within 3 hours for a broken bone, $500 total. Can you even imaging that happening in the US? Fact is, for most of the people, most of the time, the Canadian healthcare system works so much better than ours.

Sure, for the sickest who also happen to be the richest, the US system offers some advantages. But that's a pretty small subset of the population --

 

[Wasted Energy]

Forget about Obamacare, have you guys heard about this Affordable Care Act thing??!!!

 

[Flashfan]

Indiana is an interesting case because they started with a Healthy Indiana plan when Mitch Daniels was in office that implemented true HSA options for state workers and some others. Pence may claim he is not expanding Medicaid with his Healthy Indiana 2.0 or whatever but honestly he is.

The biggest problem with Healthy Indiana is that it can barely support the people that are on it. They dumped the rolls a few years ago from a lot of single adults and won't let more people enroll. While I like the idea of a token amount of money being paid to show personal responsibility, Indiana has not proven it can administer the program effectively. The state has a very large percentage of the population that qualifies for the expanded medicaid. I certainly hope it helps because the state is in trouble now.

 

[shiftingmirage]

Where else in the world can you go for the most advanced medical treatment, the best hospitals, the center for drug development. People all over the world come here to receive medical care. Obamacare and socialized medicine suck it leads to long wait times and inferior treatment. Look at canada. People need to get private insurance to be able to receive care in a timely manner.

Numerous studies have show medical care in the US is inferior to many westernized countries and some non-westernized.

What solution to you propose? People with private insurance get treatment, people with Medicare or Medicaid have to wait in long lines to get some treatment, and the poor go screw themselves?

Your position seems to be even with Obamacare, people are still getting screwed, but now you're the one getting screwed and that is unacceptable. Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting.

 

[deanthedream17]

I'm not sure where this 'timely care' idea got started, because it really isn't all that true. Several times, I've had to wait six months or for an appointment with a specialist in a major US city. And it wasn't due to insurance-network limitations. This was private pay, full retail $$.

While visiting Canada, we never had to wait for anything. In and out of the ER, fully treated, within 3 hours for a broken bone, $500 total. Can you even imaging that happening in the US? Fact is, for most of the people, most of the time, the Canadian healthcare system works so much better than ours.

Sure, for the sickest who also happen to be the richest, the US system offers some advantages. But that's a pretty small subset of the population --

You're complaining about getting care after waiting a few weeks to see a specialist. Try a few months. So long in fact that ailment can progress to the point where it is so bad that you now have more problems. The vast majority of people can find healthcare through a private insurance company if they were to cut back on some nonessentials they have in their life i.e cable, phone. People make excuses why they can't pay, but have no problem paying for other things.

 

[shiftingmirage]

Forget about Obamacare, have you guys heard about this Affordable Care Act thing??!!!

Lol. One of the late night talk show hosts went out and asked people their views on Obamacare vs the ACA. I think it was Kimmel, but others have probably done it too. People had different opinions on which they preferred.

 

[deanthedream17]

Numerous studies have show medical care in the US is inferior to many westernized countries and some non-westernized.

What solution to you propose? People with private insurance get treatment, people with Medicare or Medicaid have to wait in long lines to get some treatment, and the poor go screw themselves?

Your position seems to be even with Obamacare, people are still getting screwed, but now you're the one getting screwed and that is unacceptable. Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting.

Yeah numerous studies?? Please show me these numerous studies where it says we have worse medical care. It sounds like you've been listening to Michael Moore too much where he tried to say in 'Sicko' that Cuba has better healthcare than the US.

 

[Deadlifts]

You're complaining about getting care after waiting a few weeks to see a specialist. Try a few months. So long in fact that ailment can progress to the point where it is so bad that you now have more problems. The vast majority of people can find healthcare through a private insurance company if they were to cut back on some nonessentials they have in their life i.e cable, phone. People make excuses why they can't pay, but have no problem paying for other things.

You're complaining about getting care after waiting a few weeks to see a specialist. Try a few months. So long in fact that ailment can progress to the point where it is so bad that you now have more problems. The vast majority of people can find healthcare through a private insurance company if they were to cut back on some nonessentials they have in their life i.e cable, phone. People make excuses why they can't pay, but have no problem paying for other things.

I believe she said 6 months in her post that you quoted, not a few weeks.

 

[Wasted Energy]

Lol. One of the late night talk show hosts went out and asked people their views on Obamacare vs the ACA. I think it was Kimmel, but others have probably done it too. People had different opinions on which they preferred.

Sounds like something Kimmel would do. I remember reading some survey stats about it a little while back, there was almost a 10% difference in opinions when Obama was in the name.

Sort of like the "End Women's Suffrage" campaign.

 

[EyesOfTheWorld]

The vast majority of people can find healthcare through a private insurance company if they were to cut back on some nonessentials they have in their life i.e cable, phone. People make excuses why they can't pay, but have no problem paying for other things.

Clearly you've never lived in poverty. It's hard to cut back when you already don't have essentials let alone nonessentials, aside from a prepaid phone for work related purposes.

This type of opinion from a future doc makes me a little sad.

 

[LMBLBM]

I think it is not fair to compare US Healthcare system with Canadian one. middle class in Canada pay more taxes than we do. Also, Canada don't have to spend that much money on military.

 

[DokterMom]

You're complaining about getting care after waiting a few weeks to see a specialist. Try a few months. So long in fact that ailment can progress to the point where it is so bad that you now have more problems. The vast majority of people can find healthcare through a private insurance company if they were to cut back on some nonessentials they have in their life i.e cable, phone. People make excuses why they can't pay, but have no problem paying for other things.

I said six months, not weeks. And that was with insurance -- though for services that were not covered.

You say "The vast majority of people can find healthcare through a private insurance company" -- What about those who can't? At any price? Due to pre-existing conditions, my family has been there, which forced us to stick with an over-priced, under-insuring policy that was arguably worse than nothing. (If we had nothing, we could have qualified for our state's high-risk pool, but I wasn't willing to go uninsured for the 90 days that would have been required.)

Now, thanks to the ACA, we have a platinum-level policy (yes, one step over gold ) that covers almost everything to some degree, has a lower annual maximum out of pocket, and costs us $250/month less than we were paying before.

For the self-employed, the ACA has been a godsend. Truly.

 

[LMBLBM]

You're complaining about getting care after waiting a few weeks to see a specialist. Try a few months. So long in fact that ailment can progress to the point where it is so bad that you now have more problems. The vast majority of people can find healthcare through a private insurance company if they were to cut back on some nonessentials they have in their life i.e cable, phone. People make excuses why they can't pay, but have no problem paying for other things.

You serious? Do you poor people are financially literate and spend lavish amount of money on premium cables, eat out everyday and waste money? Jesus Christ. Have you ever eaten same vegetable soup for two weeks with untreated ear infection? And there is no cable TV to comfort your pain

 

[Law2Doc]

in dollars, and any other ways you can think of ?

Im not a huge fan of this plan but i think your question is absurdly premature. Implementing something that has a supposed benefit over the long haul (not in year one) and asking in pretty much the first year how much it is costing is a lot like the whiney kid in the back seat on a long road trip asking in the first ten minutes "are we there yet?" Neither the Romney or Obama plans were predicted to show a cost benefit in this short of a term.

So this thread can only devolve into a republican vs democrat rehash with neither group able to add much useful on whether this plan will or won't help stem costs down the road. A better question would be whether, given that, whether you were for it or against it, this is now the law, your duly elected officials can ever focus on making this thing work rather than simply trying to sabotage it to be able to show they were right after all. Parties don't have to agree on every plan, but honestly once something is voted into law it's pretty anti-American to continue trying to undermine it. Outside of congress we call people who try to undermine the laws of US traitors... And again, I'm not a big fan of this act, but once we have voted to go down this path, which we did, I find it the Obligation of both parties to make it a success. They are working for us, not against each other. We all will suffer through multiple administrations of each party in our lifetime, idiots all, and regardless of who's in charge they should really be working to make this country better, not to be able to say "see I told you so"...

 

[DermViser]

Millions more Americans have health insurance now.

Right. Mainly Medicaid which many physicians don't take. Congrats!

 

[DermViser]

@DermViser, what are you thoughts?

Several things:

A lot of the increase in insured have been: 1) People who were put into Medicaid who qualify bc the cutoff was lowered (so taxpayers are paying now for even more people), 2) People who had individual plans and were kicked off and had to go to the exchange plans, so they were insured before and had to "re-insure" themselves. Hardly a victory.

Children being on their parent's insurance (until age 26)? Yeah that costs businesses money. Guess how the costs of that is going to be passed on.

Medicaid pays so low for medical services, many physicians don't take it bc you can't even keep your lights on. Health insurance is hardly anything of value if no one takes it.

Also any CBO projection is not to believed. Everything the CBO has projected the cost of anything: Medicare, SS, etc. they have always been very wrong and off by many magnitudes.

So to summarize, NOTHING is free and we're now finding out things about the bill that weren't advertised before: "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor," etc. No one who was even slightly educated about health insurance thought this to be true.

 

[shiftingmirage]

Yeah numerous studies?? Please show me these numerous studies where it says we have worse medical care.

The WHO ranks US 37 of 191.
http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

Study in JAMA "The Anatomy of Health Care in the United States"
Taken from the abstract: "Despite the increases in resources devoted to health care, multiple health metrics, including life expectancy at birth and survival with many diseases, shows the United States trailing peer nations. The findings from this analysis contradict several common assumptions. "
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article...STER:JAMALatestIssueTOCNotification11/12/2013
Some charts from the study
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/chart-what-happened-to-us-life-expectancy/

The Commonwealth Fund "U.S Ranks Last Among Seven Countries on Health System Performance Based on Measures of Quality, Efficiency, Access, Equity, and Healthy Lives"
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/pub.../2010/jun/us-ranks-last-among-seven-countries

Institute of Medicine: "U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter lives, poorer health"
http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Re...l-Perspective/USHealth_Intl_PerspectiveRB.pdf

 

[Mad Jack]

Not to mention many of us students may stay on our parent's insurance longer, should we need to. I think we need more time to see how well it will work. The one problem I have is that it was passed despite a clear majority saying they didn't want it. That's not how America works. Even if it is in our best interest, if we so "no", it means " no".

Are you saying Obamacare raped America? Cause I think that's what you're saying.

 

[deleted407021]

Are you saying Obamacare raped America? Cause I think that's what you're saying.

I legit lol'd.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Im not a huge fan of this plan but i think your question is absurdly premature. Implementing something that has a supposed benefit over the long haul (not in year one) and asking in pretty much the first year how much it is costing is a lot like the whiney kid in the back seat on a long road trip asking in the first ten minutes "are we there yet?" Neither the Romney or Obama plans were predicted to show a cost benefit in this short of a term.

So this thread can only devolve into a republican vs democrat rehash with neither group able to add much useful on whether this plan will or won't help stem costs down the road. A better question would be whether, given that, whether you were for it or against it, this is now the law, your duly elected officials can ever focus on making this thing work rather than simply trying to sabotage it to be able to show they were right after all. Parties don't have to agree on every plan, but honestly once something is voted into law it's pretty anti-American to continue trying to undermine it. Outside of congress we call people who try to undermine the laws of US traitors... And again, I'm not a big fan of this act, but once we have voted to go down this path, which we did, I find it the Obligation of both parties to make it a success. They are working for us, not against each other. We all will suffer through multiple administrations of each party in our lifetime, idiots all, and regardless of who's in charge they should really be working to make this country better, not to be able to say "see I told you so"...

I wonder if the current state of affairs (although premature) would be any different if a Republican President and Congress had enacted a similar version of health reform. I kinda wish that were the case sometimes... The Dems definitely have their faults, but in my lifetime, I don't recall them ever participating in this level of obstruction with anything.