How much importance does the average gen surg residency place on research and ECs?

[Hippocrates II]

I'm a 3rd-year DO student and I have been enjoying my gen surg rotations a lot more than I had expected to. I'm considering making a pivot from my orig goals (FM/IM) and looking more into surgery, but I'm not sure if my lack of ECs/research are going to hinder me a lot.

The good -

High board scores (26x step 1, 63x comlex 1)
Top quartile class rank

The bad -

No ECs of any kind - literally none.
No research
DO student

How much would I need to address those [correctable] deficiencies to be able to comfortably match into an average program? I'm not gunning for greatness, but I would like to match in a bigger city for the sake of my family. My main concern is that I'm so busy 3rd year, and I have children, that I just don't feasibly see how to do more things like research on top of what I'm already doing. My typical days so far are ~6 am to ~6-7 pm with my commutes and I don't see that letting up for the foreseeable future, so I have a feeling my ECs and research are going to continue to be nonexistent.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[swoopyswoop]

Having no ECs and no research will be a red flag. What will be on your application aside from your step scores?
You can usually get on board a few projects an M3 to show some interest in the field. Attendings always have side projects that need finishing up. Residents can always use help with data collection etc.

 

[swoopyswoop]

Greetings, my brother is a 3rd year GS resident, and the residency is BRUTAL all the time. Research is pretty much required, and my brother got dinged with a 260 step 1 from a top school because his research (pubs and patents) wasn't related to Surgery (he decided on GS at the last minute). He had lots of ECs and Research, 15 interviews, but not at geography he wanted, and got his 3rd choice in GS (though couples matching, so that adds to complexity) . Happy with where they landed, but he is exhausted all the time. His EC now is sleep, has given up his hobbies.

You have kids you won't see for years. Run away, fast and look closer at plenty of other options. Brother's fiance is a radiology resident at the same place, and that is a SWEET residency in terms of lifestyle during residency and after. Pathology is also much better during residency. You have kids, take a path that puts your family first. Can't stress enough that GS is a horrible residency, he is slogging through it, but keeps telling me avoid it at all costs.

Are you a gen surg resident? Could it be that your brother is in a malignant program? We have tons of married residents with kids in our program. If you want to be a surgeon, you can make it work. Will it be harder than pathology or radiology residency? Yes, but if you want to be a surgeon you will not be happy being a pathologist or a radiologist. I would disagree that GS is a "horrible residency" based on your n of 1. Perhaps don't give life advice on things you have not experienced first hand.

 

[Hippocrates II]

Having no ECs and no research will be a red flag. What will be on your application aside from your step scores?
You can usually get on board a few projects an M3 to show some interest in the field. Attendings always have side projects that need finishing up. Residents can always use help with data collection etc.

Yeah, I agree it's a red flag. I've tried jumping on a few things but most of my rotations have just been with PP docs (yay, DO school rotations) who don't participate in research. I guess I will keep throwing out what I can see if I can land something to pad my application a bit. Thanks

 

[slowthai]

@AnatomyGrey12

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

From what I have been told research is fairly important. Everyone these days has at least some crappy posters on their app so to have absolutely nothing is going to raise some eyebrows.

As to the other ECs I have been told they aren’t important. Although I don’t know how you have absolutely nothing. No previous work experience? No volunteering like at all?

Your scores are elite however, and will most likely get you a number of interviews. The former DO programs won’t care about the lack of research or ECs nearly as much, and some of them will salivate over your high scores.

 

[Hippocrates II]

From what I have been told research is fairly important. Everyone these days has at least some crappy posters on their app so to have absolutely nothing is going to raise some eyebrows.

As to the other ECs I have been told they aren’t important. Although I don’t know how you have absolutely nothing. No previous work experience? No volunteering like at all?

Your scores are elite however, and will most likely get you a number of interviews. The former DO programs won’t care about the lack of research or ECs nearly as much, and some of them will salivate over your high scores.

I have volunteer stuff from before med school, and work experience from a career prior to school, but none of it is really at all relevant to being a physician or event patient-related, so I'm not sure it's worth putting down. I'm sure I could come up with some BS activities to check some boxes, but no one is going to be impressed by them. I'm trying to get some research now, but I've been ghosted by a few docs, and all of my rotations are the DO-special - following a PP doc around like a puppy, so opportunities have been pretty sparse.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I have volunteer stuff from before med school, and work experience from a career prior to school, but none of it is really at all relevant to being a physician or event patient-related, so I'm not sure it's worth putting down. I'm sure I could come up with some BS activities to check some boxes, but no one is going to be impressed by them. I'm trying to get some research now, but I've been ghosted by a few docs, and all of my rotations are the DO-special - following a PP doc around like a puppy, so opportunities have been pretty sparse.

The work experience absolutely is relevant. People aren't listing work experiences that happened in medical school and are just relevant to healthcare.

 

[Hippocrates II]

The work experience absolutely is relevant. People aren't listing work experiences that happened in medical school and are just relevant to healthcare.

So if someone were a plumber before med school, they would put that on their app as prior work experience? I don't say that to be snarky, but my previous career is about as related to medicine as being a plumber is, so I always just assumed that wouldn't be something you would list when applying for residency.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So if someone were a plumber before med school, they would put that on their app as prior work experience? I don't say that to be snarky, but my previous career is about as related to medicine as being a plumber is, so I always just assumed that wouldn't be something you would list when applying for residency.

Yes 100%.