How much money do YOU expect to make?

[postbacpremed87]

This is not asking about how much medicine will make in the future. That goes against SDN "proper topic of conversation". I was just curious about the expectations that people had. I would be fine with 100k a year if med school cost less and there was less bureaucracy. So what do you expect to make as a physician?

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[ScholarStud]

enough.

 

[ucbsmd]

More than you

 

[postbacpremed87]

Succinct yet good

enough.

 

[911 Turbo]

I guess 1 million/ year is enough for two ferraris a mansion and three trophy wives... So let's start there

 

[SexyDoctor]

Millions. Probably a good 600k in the beginning, then milliions after I become a CEO of some awesome pharmaceutical company.

 

[Neuroguy887]

2.5 Rations and an occasional head of corn

 

[unhappytnt]

I'd be happy with 150K, 200K and above would be amazing.

also, inb4 someone says 3 fiddy

 

[pancakesyrup]

I'd be happy with 150K, 200K and above would be amazing.

also, inb4 someone says 3 fiddy

After taxes, that 150K will likely be less than 100K.

 

[postbacpremed87]

Thank you for giving the most reasonable, mature response.

I'd be happy with 150K, 200K and above would be amazing.

also, inb4 someone says 3 fiddy

 

[blizzah]

I'd be happy with 150K, 200K and above would be amazing.

also, inb4 someone says 3 fiddy

 

[SexyDoctor]

Thank you for giving the most reasonable, mature response.

I was pretty honest. My ER doctor started out with 600k..

 

[pancakesyrup]

I was pretty honest. My ER doctor started out with 600k..

How do you know how much your ER doc made?

 

[afreaknamedpete]

I was pretty honest. My ER doctor started out with 600k..

Was the ER Doc paid in Chinese RMB?

 

[postbacpremed87]

That seems a little high and by a little I mean a lot...Your ER doc is pulling down what most interventionalists(rads and card) make. I'd say that figure is 2.5x what the average ER doc makes.

I was pretty honest. My ER doctor started out with 600k..

 

[Person0715]

Hopefully enough to pay off loans and live a relatively comfortable life

 

[postbacpremed87]

I tend to agree with these figures....are these your after tax expectations? You're expecting neurosurgeons to decline from their avg today....probably on par with future reimbursement rates. Thanks for responding.

It depends on the specialty.

If I become an internist, then I expect 120K.
If I become a pathologist, then 140K.
190K for cardiologists and orthopedics.
Maybe 230K for neurosurgeons.

This is what I expect 10 years from now.

 

[SexyDoctor]

That seems a little high and by a little I mean a lot...Your ER doc is pulling down what most interventionalists(rads and card) make. I'd say that figure is 2.5x what the average ER doc makes.

Was the ER Doc paid in Chinese RMB?

No in US dollars..he actually makes more than that now. I don't know how he does it..but I'm 100% he does make that kind of bank.

 

[pancakesyrup]

I tend to agree with these figures....are these your after tax expectations? You're expecting neurosurgeons to decline from their avg today....probably on par with future reimbursement rates. Thanks for responding.

No......before tax. With the average American income being around 50K and with so many people feeling lucky just to have a job these days (not to mention the unfortunate 10%), the general public will see these 300K+ figures for specialists as obscene. Since doctors rely on taxpayer money for a good portion of their income, the public unfortunately has a say.

And of course I think most people want less of a disparity between primary care and specialists.

 

[pancakesyrup]

No in US dollars..he actually makes more than that now. I don't know how he does it..but I'm 100% he does make that kind of bank.

Again, how do you know how much he makes? Did you actually ask him?

 

[Web MD]

I would be using my degree to serve as a medical reviewer for Anthem BC/BS so I'd say $700k is a reasonable assumption (bonus dependent on how many claims I successfully....handle)

 

[pancakesyrup]

I was pretty honest. My ER doctor started out with 600k..

To be honest, if I were him, I would not tell ANYONE outside my immediate family.

To the vast majority of Americans, 600K is way too much money for any doctor except for maybe a brilliant surgeon.

 

[SexyDoctor]

Again, how do you know how much he makes? Did you actually ask him?

I did, but not in a rude way of course. He's like family.

 

[V5RED]

I expect to make between 300k and 600k.

It would be ridiculous to go to school for at least 12 years(undergrad+med school+residency) for anything less than 200k.

My youth is worth much more than that.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It depends on the specialty.

If I become an internist, then I expect 120K.
If I become a pathologist, then 140K.
190K for cardiologists and orthopedics.
Maybe 230K for neurosurgeons. -

This is what I expect 10 years from now.

Even if that is after tax, you're completely forgetting the fact that the baby boomers will begin to age like cheese over the next few decades. Cardiologists and neurosurgeons will probably be making easily 500k after taxes.

Anyways, I'm interested in neurology or psychiatry - I'm thinking 250k easily, as a bunch of old people with dementia's and organic disorders are inevitably going to put mental health workers into high demand.

 

[pancakesyrup]

I did, but not in a rude way of course. He's like family.

Asking people how much they make is a rude question regardless of tone, and for doctors to actually tell people is bad PR. Again, if I made that much, I would not tell anyone except for my (hopefully eventual) wife and parents, and maybe my siblings. I would not tell cousins, uncles/aunts, or "family friends".

 

[pancakesyrup]

Even if that is after tax, you're completely forgetting the fact that the baby boomers will begin to age like cheese over the next few decades. Cardiologists and neurosurgeons will probably be making easily 500k after taxes.

Yeah right. Cardiologists are already getting a big pay cut this year.

I will admit that maybe my numbers for primary care and path were too low, but doctors will be paid less in the future. The question is how much less?

 

[Doctor246853]

Not much maybe...

One BILLION DOLLARS! (srs)

 

[SexyDoctor]

Asking people how much they make is a rude question regardless of tone, and for doctors to actually tell people is bad PR. Again, if I made that much, I would not tell anyone except for my (hopefully eventual) wife and parents, and maybe my siblings.

Not really. He's my mentor, and so we talk about medical school a lot and the debt I should be expecting. He didn't mind.

Different folks different strokes.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yeah right. Cardiologists are already getting a big pay cut this year.

I will admit that maybe my numbers for primary care and path were too low, but doctors will be paid less in the future. The question is how much less?

They were expecting a major pay cut. But, I dont see that happening anytime soon ( I believe they actually sued to avoid the possibility completely) and even if they do get a pay cut the influx of more patients will balance it out quickly.

 

[Doctor246853]

Yeah right. Cardiologists are already getting a big pay cut this year.

I will admit that maybe my numbers for primary care and path were too low, but doctors will be paid less in the future. The question is how much less?

Even if so, I cant see neurosurgery making 200 something.

 

[pancakesyrup]

Not really. He's my mentor, and so we talk about medical school a lot and the debt I should be expecting. He didn't mind.

Different folks different strokes.

Well then, more power to him.

I think it is fine to talk to a certain doctor about how much his specialty makes, but I'm surprised he would tell you how much he makes, especially if it is way above the average of his specialty. I would never ask the interventional cardiologist I'm shadowing how much money he makes (even though I am personally very curious about these things). And if I was in his place and had a student shadowing me, I would simply say that cardiologists make a 6 figure income which is enough to pay off student loans, and nothing more specific.

The reason why I wouldn't tell anyone is because I hate when people complain about "rich doctors" and their salaries, and telling people these numbers won't do anything except worsen public resentment.

 

[pancakesyrup]

They were expecting a major pay cut. But, I dont see that happening anytime soon ( I believe they actually sued to avoid the possibility completely) and even if they do get a pay cut the influx of more patients will balance it out quickly.

Maybe so, but then that will just mean more hours in a specialty that already has a rough lifestyle.

 

[Doctor246853]

Well then, more power to him.

I think it is fine to talk to a certain doctor about how much his specialty makes, but I'm surprised he would tell you how much he makes, especially if it is way above the average of his specialty. I would never ask the interventional cardiologist I'm shadowing how much money he makes (even though I am personally very curious about these things). And if I was in his place and had a student shadowing me, I would simply say that cardiologists make a 6 figure income which is enough to pay off student loans, and nothing more specific.

Dang dude, lighten up a little. I don't see what all the whohaw is over telling someone your salary. Whats wrong with that?

 

[Narmerguy]

Yeah right. Cardiologists are already getting a big pay cut this year.

I will admit that maybe my numbers for primary care and path were too low, but doctors will be paid less in the future. The question is how much less?

I think it's rather presumptuous of you to state something like this as if anyone can be certain what will happen to reimbursements overall.

Asking people how much they make is a rude question regardless of tone, and for doctors to actually tell people is bad PR. Again, if I made that much, I would not tell anyone except for my (hopefully eventual) wife and parents, and maybe my siblings. I would not tell cousins, uncles/aunts, or "family friends".

No it's really not always a rude question depending on your relationship with them. More importantly, I think doctors' ultimate concern should not be PR when talking to every single individual. Doctors are humans and their relationships with various individuals can certainly make it appropriate to discuss compensation or various other "naughty" topics for non physicians to know...

Keep in mind that many many salaries are public knowledge.

 

[Web MD]

The numbers are out there, just look at the EM forum. Pretending like physicians' salaries are some closely guarded secret is a little naiive

 

[Doctor246853]

the numbers are out there, just look at the em forum. Pretending like physicians' salaries are some closely guarded secret is a little naiive

+1

 

[deleted245139]

I was pretty honest. My ER doctor started out with 600k..

Single guy/girl with no family restricting their time, working in a smaller private hospital and maybe head of a group, moonlighting constantly along the way? I could definitely see this in the right market...

but we're talking many many MANY hours

 

[pancakesyrup]

The numbers are out there, just look at the EM forum. Pretending like physicians' salaries are some closely guarded secret is a little naiive

Maybe so, but it is secretive to some extent. My father (an internist) tells me about cardiologists who make millions of dollars, and I have a friend who knows of a neurosurgeon with a private practice who makes upwards of $8-9 million (including an investment in an imaging center), with other neurosurgeons in his practice making at least $1 million. And then Sexydoc knows that EM doctor who started with 600K.

There must be a reason why these numbers don't often appear in the salary surveys you hear about.

 

[ponyo]

200k< x < 300k before taxes.

I put an upper cap because above that I will simply work fewer hours.

 

[235788]

300-600k

Goal is Urology

 

[pancakesyrup]

No it's really not always a rude question depending on your relationship with them. More importantly, I think doctors' ultimate concern should not be PR when talking to every single individual. Doctors are humans and their relationships with various individuals can certainly make it appropriate to discuss compensation or various other "naughty" topics for non physicians to know...

Keep in mind that many many salaries are public knowledge.

To some extent, it should be. They already have a weak political lobby and a bad public reputation wrt money. I don't think ER docs should talk about their salaries especially if they make over 300K.

 

[Narmerguy]

Maybe so, but it is secretive to some extent. My father (an internist) tells me about cardiologists who make millions of dollars, and I have a friend who knows of a neurosurgeon with a private practice who makes upwards of $8-9 million (including an investment in an imaging center), with other neurosurgeons in his practice making at least $1 million. And then Sexydoc knows that EM doctor who started with 600K.

There must be a reason why these numbers don't often appear in salary surveys you hear about.

Yeah because they're absurdly abnormal salaries that, while memorable, are hardly indicative of what even some of the best paid physicians make. Additionally, these salaries don't seem secretive any more than the salary of any other profession (our culture does not like to discuss how much money we earn). The same goes for teachers, musicians, and food critics.

To some extent, it should be. They already have a weak political lobby and a bad public reputation wrt money. I don't think ER docs should talk about their salaries especially if they make over 300K.

I understand what you're thinking, but if physicians are to be so preoccupied with political jockeying, they should focus not on establishing a culture of secrecy and self censorship but of educating the public on why it is fair for them to earn their wages. Additionally, attention should be paid to making sure the public is aware of what the average physician is making because it certainly isn't above 300k.

 

[deleted245139]

if you want to see some interesting opinions on this subject, read the comments following just about EVERY health article on CNN.com. It usually dissolves into people berating our profession for its "love of money", be that real or not.

at the end of the day, our gift is that we will (hopefully) love what we do... not many people can say that. most work to live.... we practice a craft. people hear 'doctor' and don't see all that comes with that... $250,000 of debt, failed marriages/relationships, lost friends, more than a decade of sacrifice and dedication. I think for the most part we earn our pay, but... and ill reiterate... we get to do something we love. That's not a bad deal

 

[SexyDoctor]

Single guy/girl with no family restricting their time, working in a smaller private hospital and maybe head of a group, moonlighting constantly along the way? I could definitely see this in the right market...

but we're talking many many MANY hours

Actually he is single, no family, works in a private hospital, head of group, used to moonlight, has many hours wow right on it

 

[V5RED]

Maybe so, but it is secretive to some extent. My father (an internist) tells me about cardiologists who make millions of dollars, and I have a friend who knows of a neurosurgeon with a private practice who makes upwards of $8-9 million (including an investment in an imaging center), with other neurosurgeons in his practice making at least $1 million. And then Sexydoc knows that EM doctor who started with 600K.

There must be a reason why these numbers don't often appear in salary surveys you hear about.

The reason is very simple. The salary reports do not specifically tell you these numbers because they do not report individual earnings.

They report salaries in a useful grouped form so that you can actually use it to gauge how much various specialties earn. A list of salaries would be useless for this.

 

[SexyDoctor]

No it's really not always a rude question depending on your relationship with them..

+1 He's not some random doctor I shadow, he's a really good friend of mine. We hang out.

 

[Narmerguy]

if you want to see some interesting opinions on this subject, read the comments following just about EVERY health article on CNN.com. It usually dissolves into people berating our profession for its "love of money", be that real or not.

at the end of the day, our gift is that we will (hopefully) love what we do... not many people can say that. most work to live.... we practice a craft. people hear 'doctor' and don't see all that comes with that... $250,000 of debt, failed marriages/relationships, lost friends, more than a decade of sacrifice and dedication. I think for the most part we earn our pay, but... and ill reiterate... we get to do something we love. That's not a bad deal

Important to remember that the vocal minority that obsessively respond to those CNN and other news articles do not necessarily represent the views of America. Even if someone didn't think doctor's were all greedy and dishonest, who would feel strongly enough about it to argue with someone that does? I don't think all lawyers are crumby and evil but I'd never spend my time debating on an online news article with someone who's convinced they are. Why should I care?

 

[pancakesyrup]

Yeah because they're absurdly abnormal salaries that, while memorable, are hardly indicative of what even some of the best paid physicians make. Additionally, these salaries don't seem secretive any more than the salary of any other profession (our culture does not like to discuss how much money we earn). The same goes for teachers, musicians, and food critics.

But since these surveys tend to be self-selective and voluntary, I don't think anyone will really know how many of those doctors make those amazing high-end incomes.

I understand what you're thinking, but if physicians are to be so preoccupied with political jockeying, they should focus not on establishing a culture of secrecy and self censorship but of educating the public on why it is fair for them to earn their wages. Additionally, attention should be paid to making sure the public is aware of what the average physician is making because it certainly isn't above 300k.

They will look at the 300K+ salaries of cardiologists and radiologists and then b*tch about how it is contributing to out of control Medicare costs. Once that mental image of the "rich doctor" sets in, they will still think of 150-180K (typical for primary care) as a lot of money and maybe too much.

Here is an example of the public opinion we face.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/29/980287/-Doctors-should-share-in-the-sacrifice

 

[pancakesyrup]

+1 He's not some random doctor I shadow, he's a really good friend of mine. We hang out.

Eh, I guess in that case that's fine especially if he's friendly about it.