How much will this effect my chances?

[Lepidine]

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[darkjedi]

You'll have to ask your deans office and your premed office about how exactly they classified this event and whether or not it will be disclosed with your transcript file. That's the only way you'll know for sure.

On the scale of IAs, its not the worst, but if it winds up that the school doesn't report it, all the better.

 

[Lepidine]

You'll have to ask your deans office and your premed office about how exactly they classified this event and whether or not it will be disclosed with your transcript file. That's the only way you'll know for sure.

On the scale of IAs, its not the worst, but if it winds up that the school doesn't report it, all the better.

I do believe that if there was a background check, it would be reported, according the Dean's office of SCI I believe. However, I do not know (but doubt) if the I.A. would appear on a transcript due to it not changing the conduct standing. What do you think?

 

[deleted781806]

There might be some small effect, but only one IA without any repeat offenses would only throw a wrench into your chances at an extremely strict school. It is definitely on the lower end of severity as far as IA's go, as the only blacklist types are generally criminal offenses and academic dishonesty. Also, even if your school does not put your IA on an official transcript you *must* report it on AMCAS (per AAMC rules). I know that it sounds ridiculous at first, but if they are ever able to find out that you did not self-report an IA during your undergraduate career the consequences are horrendous (loss of admission, loss of degree, etc.). Even if your school does not report IA's by default, some medical schools will require you to submit a release of information request from the Conduct Office, and they'll be able to see it at that point.

 

[Lepidine]

There might be some small effect, but only one IA without any repeat offenses would only throw a wrench into your chances at an extremely strict school. It is definitely on the lower end of severity as far as IA's go, as the only blacklist types are generally criminal offenses and academic dishonesty. Also, even if your school does not put your IA on an official transcript you *must* report it on AMCAS (per AAMC rules). I know that it sounds ridiculous at first, but if they are ever able to find out that you did not self-report an IA during your undergraduate career the consequences are horrendous (loss of admission, loss of degree, etc.). Even if your school does not report IA's by default, some medical schools will require you to submit a release of information request from the Conduct Office, and they'll be able to see it at that point.

Thanks. Just a few clarifications.

1. Lets say a student with I.A. is a junior at medical school, the medical school finds out they didn't report the I.A., could they lose their acceptance then?
2. Lets say you have a medical license after graduating medical school, can they rescind (take away) your license if they find out you didn't report an I.A.?
3. So you don't think the aforementioned I.A. about trespassing would be that vital to the admissions committee?
4. If you were in a similar position, would you disclose the I.A. without much worry?

Thanks!

 

[deleted781806]

Thanks. Just a few clarifications.

1. Lets say a student with I.A. is a junior at medical school, the medical school finds out they didn't report the I.A., could they lose their acceptance then?
2. Lets say you have a medical license after graduating medical school, can they rescind (take away) your license if they find out you didn't report an I.A.?
3. So you don't think the aforementioned I.A. about trespassing would be that vital to the admissions committee?
4. If you were in a similar position, would you disclose the I.A. without much worry?

Thanks!

For #1 & #2: When I was researching this myself on SDN last summer I remember seeing answers from medical school faculty that those consequences can be very real whether you are in medical school or have been practicing for years and years. They have the right to dismiss you for dishonesty and the right to strip your degree from you (which would in turn cause you to lose your license). From my understanding, this isn't something to mess around with. There might have been a little bit of exaggeration along the way, and I would obviously love if a faculty SDN'er could correct me if my perspective is a little too over-the-top.

#3: It is not vital in the sense that they would blackball your application for having a trespassing IA levied against you while you were an undergrad, but it is necessary and required to report it on your AMCAS application. You are able to explain yourself with a short description of the IA on the application, and that should be sufficient for any admissions committee.

#4: I would disclose the IA because that's what you are signing up for when you submit your AMCAS, but also I would not worry about it too much. I self-reported an IA myself this past cycle even though my University would not have automatically reported it to any future institutions due to their confidentiality rules. Throughout my interviews, not one interviewer had asked me about my IA, so I assume that it was relatively a non-issue in their assessment of my application.

***EDIT***
Non-disclosure of an IA puts you on the same boat as if you had an Academic Dishonesty violation as an IA, as you would have just committed the latter. Either of these actions would almost permanently bar your from gaining admission into a medical school.

 

[J ROD]

It will be all good.

 

[Lepidine]

For #1 & #2: When I was researching this myself on SDN last summer I remember seeing answers from medical school faculty that those consequences can be very real whether you are in medical school or have been practicing for years and years. They have the right to dismiss you for dishonesty and the right to strip your degree from you (which would in turn cause you to lose your license). From my understanding, this isn't something to mess around with. There might have been a little bit of exaggeration along the way, and I would obviously love if a faculty SDN'er could correct me if my perspective is a little too over-the-top.

#3: It is not vital in the sense that they would blackball your application for having a trespassing IA levied against you while you were an undergrad, but it is necessary and required to report it on your AMCAS application. You are able to explain yourself with a short description of the IA on the application, and that should be sufficient for any admissions committee.

#4: I would disclose the IA because that's what you are signing up for when you submit your AMCAS, but also I would not worry about it too much. I self-reported an IA myself this past cycle even though my University would not have automatically reported it to any future institutions due to their confidentiality rules. Throughout my interviews, not one interviewer had asked me about my IA, so I assume that it was relatively a non-issue in their assessment of my application.

***EDIT***
Non-disclosure of an IA puts you on the same boat as if you had an Academic Dishonesty violation as an IA, as you would have just committed the latter. Either of these actions would almost permanently bar your from gaining admission into a medical school.

Thank you very much for your in depth analysis of the situation. I appreciate the help tremendously. I have a couple more questions.

1. Do you mind me asking what your I.A. was?
2. Since you were accepted while providing an I.A., what formatting and what style did you write about your I.A. when the application asked you to write about it?
3. Non-disclosure is probably not the best route, but when you say its an academic dishonesty violation in and of itself, does that go on any type of record?
4. Have you heard of anyone ever being dismissed while in, or their degree taken away, because of a non-disclosure I.A., and specifically one of the lesser I.As such as trespassing?

 

[deleted781806]

Thank you very much for your in depth analysis of the situation. I appreciate the help tremendously. I have a couple more questions.

1. Do you mind me asking what your I.A. was?
2. Since you were accepted while providing an I.A., what formatting and what style did you write about your I.A. when the application asked you to write about it?
3. Non-disclosure is probably not the best route, but when you say its an academic dishonesty violation in and of itself, does that go on any type of record?
4. Have you heard of anyone ever being dismissed while in, or their degree taken away, because of a non-disclosure I.A., and specifically one of the lesser I.As such as trespassing?

1. I'm going to pass on giving any specifics, but it was a non-academic IA.

2. You are allowed a certain amount of space on your AMCAS application, I forget how many characters. I gave the date and summary of my IA (what it was and its consequences I faced at my undergrad) and let the admissions committee know that I followed-up well with the Conduct Office and taken the steps necessary to make sure a repeat incident would not occur.

3. To reiterate because you are sounding like how I was when I first looked into this myself: Someone will find out if you have lied on your AMCAS for *any* reason and you *will* lose your license/degree/respect. There is always a record and a trace, and if they can be brought up they will. We are both trying to enter a profession that has some of the highest ethical codes, especially concerning honesty/integrity, and if you demonstrate yourself to not have either you will be dismissed from said profession. You can find many posts along these lines in the past on SDN, with long-standing faculty/moderator members making this point.

4. As above, you can find many examples of people on SDN who have personal testimonies of knowing someone who was either dismissed from medical school or has had their license or degree revoked after dishonesty was found. When you submit the AMCAS application you are binding yourself to the rules/conduct of the AAMC and there is zero-tolerance for dishonesty/fraud.

 

[Lepidine]

1. I'm going to pass on giving any specifics, but it was a non-academic IA.

2. You are allowed a certain amount of space on your AMCAS application, I forget how many characters. I gave the date and summary of my IA (what it was and its consequences I faced at my undergrad) and let the admissions committee know that I followed-up well with the Conduct Office and taken the steps necessary to make sure a repeat incident would not occur.

3. To reiterate because you are sounding like how I was when I first looked into this myself: Someone will find out if you have lied on your AMCAS for *any* reason and you *will* lose your license/degree/respect. There is always a record and a trace, and if they can be brought up they will. We are both trying to enter a profession that has some of the highest ethical codes, especially concerning honesty/integrity, and if you demonstrate yourself to not have either you will be dismissed from said profession. You can find many posts along these lines in the past on SDN, with long-standing faculty/moderator members making this point.

4. As above, you can find many examples of people on SDN who have personal testimonies of knowing someone who was either dismissed from medical school or has had their license or degree revoked after dishonesty was found. When you submit the AMCAS application you are binding yourself to the rules/conduct of the AAMC and there is zero-tolerance for dishonesty/fraud.

Very good points. However, I'm still unsure to the degree this I.A. could effect my application. I'm assuming very little to negligible based on what people in this thread and others have stated? I know its hard to tell, but would you say its a pretty small influence that should still enable me to get into most (if not all) MD programs (assuming the said school has accepted all else of my application) ?

 

[Goro]

Sounds like you have a story to tell. Alcohol and pot offices are both common and innocuous, except maybe at LUCOM and Loma Linda. What we don't like is multiple offences.

The trespassing sounds like it could be really stupid, or really serious. Did you lose track of time and have the building close on you? Or were you looking to steal something? Stalking someone? PM me if needed.

Is the IA on your transcript??

Hello everyone, I was wondering how much an I.A. of on-campus trespassing around a closed building 3+ years ago would effect my chances of getting accepted. The conduct standing did not even change (remained good). However, the university clearly has information that it happened, and they possibly said that it is an I.A., even with the ambiguous wording of the medical school application.

Does this profoundly effect any chance of med school admittance? Effect it somewhat? Influence it only a little bit?

Also, are alcohol crimes (underage drinking, etc.) or illegal drug possession (pot) worse than trespassing or about equal? I know that it matters circumstantially, but I'm trying to gauge where this I.A. fits in the seriousness of it.

 

[deleted781806]

Very good points. However, I'm still unsure to the degree this I.A. could effect my application. I'm assuming very little to negligible based on what people in this thread and others have stated? I know its hard to tell, but would you say its a pretty small influence that should still enable me to get into most (if not all) MD programs (assuming the said school has accepted all else of my application) ?

As long as your IA wasn't for some malevolent reason, I don't think it would be too harmful on your application, especially if it was along the lines of "I lost track of time and forgot the building closed". Just report it and talk about what you learned and why you won't do it again. Reporting is always better than lying, in any case! For all other specifics I'd defer to Goro though!

 

[Lepidine]

Sounds like you have a story to tell. Alcohol and pot offices are both common and innocuous, except maybe at LUCOM and Loma Linda. What we don't like is multiple offences.

The trespassing sounds like it could be really stupid, or really serious. Did you lose track of time and have the building close on you? Or were you looking to steal something? Stalking someone? PM me if needed.

Is the IA on your transcript??

As long as your IA wasn't for some malevolent reason, I don't think it would be too harmful on your application, especially if it was along the lines of "I lost track of time and forgot the building closed". Just report it and talk about what you learned and why you won't do it again. Reporting is always better than lying, in any case! For all other specifics I'd defer to Goro though!

Ok thanks! Yea, it definitely wasn't for any vindictive or malevolent reason.

 

[Lepidine]

There might be some small effect, but only one IA without any repeat offenses would only throw a wrench into your chances at an extremely strict school. It is definitely on the lower end of severity as far as IA's go, as the only blacklist types are generally criminal offenses and academic dishonesty. Also, even if your school does not put your IA on an official transcript you *must* report it on AMCAS (per AAMC rules). I know that it sounds ridiculous at first, but if they are ever able to find out that you did not self-report an IA during your undergraduate career the consequences are horrendous (loss of admission, loss of degree, etc.). Even if your school does not report IA's by default, some medical schools will require you to submit a release of information request from the Conduct Office, and they'll be able to see it at that point.

I have a quick question. What to you mean by "criminal offense" I.A.?

 

[deleted781806]

I have a quick question. What to you mean by "criminal offense" I.A.?

Sorry, that really shouldn't have been classified as an "IA" but rather more of just conduct problems that lead to being barred from admission. A felony conviction will bar you from licensure in some (maybe most?) states in the US. A misdemeanor conviction will not bar you, but would be a significant hurdle to jump over to convince the admissions committee I think.

 

[Lepidine]

Sorry, that really shouldn't have been classified as an "IA" but rather more of just conduct problems that lead to being barred from admission. A felony conviction will bar you from licensure in some (maybe most?) states in the US. A misdemeanor conviction will not bar you, but would be a significant hurdle to jump over to convince the admissions committee I think.

Ok thanks! I was just making sure there was no possible an I.A. could be a "criminal offense".