How to Answer Inappropriate Questions with Class During Residency Interview?

[type12]

I'm an IMG reapplicant (failed CS - since passed). I did interview before finding out about the failure, and one interview stood out as strange. The Program Director asked me about my sex life, and how I'm making sure not to have a kid during residency. Well, they didn't ask that, so much as they offered me to tell them that.

"Some students try to plan to have a kid during their intern year when they are most busy. What do you think about that?"
"Would you like to share how you plan on preventing a pregnancy since no method is 100% safe?"
"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

I answered pretty honestly because I wasn't planning on having kids anytime soon, but it was weird. When I spoke with my advisor last year about it, he said, "Yeah, I would put that program dead last." This was all before I found about the CS failure and withdrew from the match.

I know I have little chance this cycle, but I really fell in love with Psych and am just going to dual-apply with IM (which I suspect I have just as low a chance of matching into). If I happen to have an interview, how should I address these questions? Is there a way to not answer them without creating awkwardness?

Sorry for the weird thread and thank you for your help.

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[reca]

This wasn’t Miami was it? Had questions down a similar line when I interviewed a few years ago.

 

[type12]

This wasn’t Miami was it? Had questions down a similar line when I interviewed a few years ago.

No comment...

 

[Celexa]

I'm an IMG reapplicant (failed CS - since passed). I did interview before finding out about the failure, and one interview stood out as strange. The Program Director asked me about my sex life, and how I'm making sure not to have a kid during residency. Well, they didn't ask that, so much as they offered me to tell them that.

"Some students try to plan to have a kid during their intern year when they are most busy. What do you think about that?"
"Would you like to share how you plan on preventing a pregnancy since no method is 100% safe?"
"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

I answered pretty honestly because I wasn't planning on having kids anytime soon, but it was weird. When I spoke with my advisor last year about it, he said, "Yeah, I would put that program dead last." This was all before I found about the CS failure and withdrew from the match.

I know I have little chance this cycle, but I really fell in love with Psych and am just going to dual-apply with IM (which I suspect I have just as low a chance of matching into). If I happen to have an interview, how should I address these questions? Is there a way to not answer them without creating awkwardness?

Sorry for the weird thread and thank you for your help.

There is no good way to answer those questions because the person asking is a toxic, power-tripping dingus. Pick whatever version of an answer lets you keep your composure.

That's a program you'd have to seriously question if it's worth ranking at all--whether, with that toxic a culture at the top, it is realistically worth it to try and get through the four years of residency.

 

[erg923]

"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

Did they have horns on their heads?

 

[Bartelby]

Wow! That is not just inappropriate, it is wildly so. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I would say roll with it, rank them dead last if at all, and then report the conduct to the ACGME and on SDN after you match elsewhere. If willing consider writing a letter to the program chair (again after matching elsewhere).

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Sometimes my faculty, being volunteer and not necessarily used to interviewing others, will let slip with something inappropriate in an effort to be "friendly"--even though we remind them repeatedly with lists of inappropriate topics.
Nevertheless, if this was a Program Director, then he and his superior need to be told that they're putting their program at risk of lawsuit.

 

[Mass Effect]

No comment...

After Match Day and you've secured a match, please submit a formal complaint to the ACGME. This is not strange. This is downright harassment and this person should be removed from his/her position.

Best wishes to you this year!

 

[deleted480308]

I'm an IMG reapplicant (failed CS - since passed). I did interview before finding out about the failure, and one interview stood out as strange. The Program Director asked me about my sex life, and how I'm making sure not to have a kid during residency. Well, they didn't ask that, so much as they offered me to tell them that.

"Some students try to plan to have a kid during their intern year when they are most busy. What do you think about that?"
"Would you like to share how you plan on preventing a pregnancy since no method is 100% safe?"
"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

I answered pretty honestly because I wasn't planning on having kids anytime soon, but it was weird. When I spoke with my advisor last year about it, he said, "Yeah, I would put that program dead last." This was all before I found about the CS failure and withdrew from the match.

I know I have little chance this cycle, but I really fell in love with Psych and am just going to dual-apply with IM (which I suspect I have just as low a chance of matching into). If I happen to have an interview, how should I address these questions? Is there a way to not answer them without creating awkwardness?

Sorry for the weird thread and thank you for your help.

As an img with a failure? You say, “i would think my main goal as intern is for my coworkers to know I have their back so they don’t feel like they are in that situation”. Keep to that line of thought and then just rank them last

As a US grad with no failures, you tell them, “I’d rather focus our time on things more relevant to my professional performance.” If they persist, “That line of questioning is inappropriate and it’s not going to continue.” If they drop it, you finish the interview. Either way, the second you are out you both speak to and draft an email to the approPriate school official about how the behavior was out of line. Don’t editorialize, don’t rant. Exact quotes as much as possible. Then rank them last or not at all

It stinks that the approach is different but your realities and options are different

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I'm sure you were too startled to make an on the spot decision, but if your conclusion was that this program will not be on your rank list, you could end the interview right then and there. "I have seen and heard enough and I will not be wasting any more of your or my time today." This is a bright red line no no and the NRMP does have ways to discipline.

 

[abc2019]

Since you are a IMG with a failure, I would think you would be thrilled to match at that program regardless of how inappropriate the interview was. Perhaps the interviewer was simply just trying to see how you would react to a stressful and inappropriate situation as often times pyschiatrists are required to do

 

[Bartelby]

Since you are a IMG with a failure, I would think you would be thrilled to match at that program regardless of how inappropriate the interview was. Perhaps the interviewer was simply just trying to see how you would react to a stressful and inappropriate situation as often times pyschiatrists are required to do

Psychiatrists should expect to encounter stressful situations, but dealing with illegal and harassing behavior from a superior is not one of them.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

After Match Day and you've secured a match, please submit a formal complaint to the ACGME. This is not strange. This is downright harassment and this person should be removed from his/her position.

Best wishes to you this year!

The ACGME doesn't want to know.
This goes to the NRMP--"the Match".

Yes, I love all of the alphabet agencies I'm accountable to...

 

[Mass Effect]

Since you are a IMG with a failure, I would think you would be thrilled to match at that program regardless of how inappropriate the interview was. Perhaps the interviewer was simply just trying to see how you would react to a stressful and inappropriate situation as often times pyschiatrists are required to do

This is BS. An IMG with a failure is still a human being and does not deserve to be told he/she should be thrilled to match regardless of inappropriate treatment. And no, the interviewer was not testing the poster. Please don't try to justify abhorrent behavior just because the OP isn't a U.S. grad.

The ACGME doesn't want to know.
This goes to the NRMP--"the Match".

Yes, I love all of the alphabet agencies I'm accountable to...

Yes, you're right, the NRMP. But wouldn't the ACGME also like to know how a PD conducts him/herself in interviews?

 

[dl2dp2]

Sometimes my faculty, being volunteer and not necessarily used to interviewing others, will let slip with something inappropriate in an effort to be "friendly"--even though we remind them repeatedly with lists of inappropriate topics.
Nevertheless, if this was a Program Director, then he and his superior need to be told that they're putting their program at risk of lawsuit.

This is rare these days. Even very senior clinicians are aware of this, and generally prior to you getting interviewed you get tutored to make sure you know the rules.

Likely if this happened in reality (in particular the abortion question) the interviewer is SPECIFICALLY doing this on purpose. I'm not sure for what or if he's looking for a lawsuit, or perhaps trying to get off the list of interviewing duties, etc. You can file a lawsuit, but unless you recorded this conversation he'll just deny that he asked this question. You can tell the program he did this, which will result in him being removed from the list of interviewers, which is perhaps exactly what he wanted.

In reality, if you were given that question during that interview and you have the balls, you can say something like, "you and I are both aware that this line of questions are not appropriate and violates current US federal labor laws. This means I will reach out to the residency program directors and your interview will probably be removed from consideration. Have a nice day." Then leave, call the residency and file complaint as soon as possible, and file a complaint in writing (in E-mail). Follow this with NRMP complaint.

 

[Mass Effect]

This is rare these days. Even very senior clinicians are aware of this, and generally prior to you getting interviewed you get tutored to make sure you know the rules.

Likely if this happened in reality (in particular the abortion question) the interviewer is SPECIFICALLY doing this on purpose. I'm not sure for what or if he's looking for a lawsuit, or perhaps trying to get off the list of interviewing duties, etc. You can file a lawsuit, but unless you recorded this conversation he'll just deny that he asked this question. You can tell the program he did this, which will result in him being removed from the list of interviewers, which is perhaps exactly what he wanted.

This was a program director.

 

[dl2dp2]

This was a program director.

I see. This is a obviously bit different and not framed in a general way anymore. LOL

Well, if you are talking about Miami on an admin level I think you might be **** out of luck since Nemeroff left and the program director is now also the interim chair--you can try to complain to the dean but I doubt you'll get very far. If you can get several people with this experience together it's often feasible to file a class action, which has a high likelihood of success in getting the school settle for damages. They are also legally forbidden from retaliating.

 

[Armadillos]

That’s horrifically bad if an interviewer asked you that stuff. Ideally you would be able to get your phone on recording mode, answer honestly and then sue them into oblivion if you didn’t match.

Edit - obviously not implying to routinely secretly record interviews as I’m sure it’s technically illegal, but this is just so egregious it should be on front page of NYT if true

 

[Goro]

As one doing interviews at the med school level, and having gone through a gazillion hours of sexual harassment training, my sense is that at the least innocuous, the interviewer was doing a stress interview. Keep in mind that the questions were:

"Some students try to plan to have a kid during their intern year when they are most busy. What do you think about that?"
"Would you like to share how you plan on preventing a pregnancy since no method is 100% safe?"
"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

However, the second question alone strays into lawsuit material. All three together? Even worse.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

This is BS. An IMG with a failure is still a human being and does not deserve to be told he/she should be thrilled to match regardless of inappropriate treatment. And no, the interviewer was not testing the poster. Please don't try to justify abhorrent behavior just because the OP isn't a U.S. grad.



Yes, you're right, the NRMP. But wouldn't the ACGME also like to know how a PD conducts him/herself in interviews?

Oh, ultimately yes of course...but if your concern is to report a recruiting violation--NRMP is the place to go.

(Think of it this way, if it was a college athletic recruiting violation, the college's accreditation agency, and maybe the EEOC will care, but it's the NCAA, the governing body for regulation of sports, that you should go to first.)

 

[Mass Effect]

As one doing interviews at the med school level, and having gone through a gazillion hours of sexual harassment training, my sense is that at the least innocuous, the interviewer was doing a stress interview. Keep in mind that the questions were:

"Some students try to plan to have a kid during their intern year when they are most busy. What do you think about that?"
"Would you like to share how you plan on preventing a pregnancy since no method is 100% safe?"
"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

However, the second question alone strays into lawsuit material. All three together? Even worse.

If by stress interview, you mean test, I disagee. This far exceeds the boundaries for any type of professional interview. These questions (all three of them) were (a) unprofessional, (b) harassing, (c) attempting to intimidate the interviewee into agreeing that medical interns/residents should not have a baby while in training.

 

[Goro]

If by stress interview, you mean test, I disagee. This far exceeds the boundaries for any type of professional interview. These questions (all three of them) were (a) unprofessional, (b) harassing, (c) attempting to intimidate the interviewee into agreeing that medical interns/residents should not have a baby while in training.

Agree 100% with the bold.

 

[type12]

I just want to correct/clarify a few things:

1. It was the ASSOCIATE program director (I have the business card and just checked). SUPER SORRY for the confusion. However, I still want to know how to not kill the atmosphere while answering truthfully (e.g., I don't have plans to have any kids, but I don't plan on abstaining from sex).

2. The interview was at the very tail end of the whole day and it seemed weird rather than typical based on everything before it - doesn't justify it, but just an FYI.

3. I was definitely surprised and thrown off when the interview went this direction. At the time, I wasn't disgusted or offended in any way, just felt weird and my mindset was primarily on the impression I was making. It just felt like when someone asks you about an embarrassing hobby and you squirm.

To give context, my advisor told me to "try to be honest, be yourself" and subsequently "maybe not this honest. Don't list this (laughs)" referring to a hobby I excelled and won at but looks childish. So my mind was there when I was answering this, not violations and what is and isn't allowed to be asked. I didn't want to lie and say I'm going to be celibate; I also wanted to not leave a confrontational impression.

I felt answering anything but "I will abstain from sex" made the PD seem disappointed, and that got me more anxious, so my answers got more awkward. I remember all the stupid things I said, but I don't remember to what question I said them to anymore. For example, I tried to lighten the mood with, "Doctors are pretty coveted in society so it's kind of hard (laughs)" when I felt this topic was getting too weird/serious. Writing that just gives me cringe because it didn't do anything to lighten the air. The Associate PD was deadpan all the way through. Nothing justifies saying that during an interview, I know, even if the tension was high. Which is why I posted this: so I don't pull this again, can answer and shift the conversation, and move on to something I can brag about and impress the interviewer.

4. My first priority is getting to a position where my word actually matters. If I did anything, it would be on the other side of the Match, where I'm less fragile. Right now, I'm just another IMG with a failure who is bitter about not being able to match (that's not how I view myself, just how it looks). I doubt a person who has a vendetta for not matching has much impact on these kinds of things. Again, I don't have a vendetta, but I know what my position of zero power looks like. sb247 put it accurately: I can't be choosy at the moment.

I'm not traumatized or hurt by the experience. I can see this was highly unprofessional now, but that aspect is not a real concern for me right now. I'm sorry if that comes off as selfish, as I can see I'm only concerned about hurting myself and things backfiring instead of others who may experience this jerk. That's just the situation I'm in and reporting them has little chance of doing anything because I'm not anyone whose opinion matters.

Thanks for the candid feedback and sorry for the confusion.

 

[lockian]

I'm an IMG reapplicant (failed CS - since passed). I did interview before finding out about the failure, and one interview stood out as strange. The Program Director asked me about my sex life, and how I'm making sure not to have a kid during residency. Well, they didn't ask that, so much as they offered me to tell them that.

"Some students try to plan to have a kid during their intern year when they are most busy. What do you think about that?"
"Would you like to share how you plan on preventing a pregnancy since no method is 100% safe?"
"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

I answered pretty honestly because I wasn't planning on having kids anytime soon, but it was weird. When I spoke with my advisor last year about it, he said, "Yeah, I would put that program dead last." This was all before I found about the CS failure and withdrew from the match.

I know I have little chance this cycle, but I really fell in love with Psych and am just going to dual-apply with IM (which I suspect I have just as low a chance of matching into). If I happen to have an interview, how should I address these questions? Is there a way to not answer them without creating awkwardness?

Sorry for the weird thread and thank you for your help.

I'd look them dead in the eye and say that residency is my birth control. That is, that I expect to be too busy and too tired to have sex, so unless I end up sexually assaulted on a day that happens to fall into my fertility window AND the "morning after pill" fails, I don't expect to get pregnant. Fight fire with fire, I say.

No, but really. Even if their goal is to assess your commitment to the job and is a roundabout ethics question, that question is wildly inappropriate AND possibly a match violation since I believe they are not supposed to ask about your family situation, and than includes plans for children. And when it comes to reporting it, should't there be a non-retaliation clause?

To address your actual question:
I would dodge it by answering as if the question is not about me, but a hypothetical female intern, and make it clear that you're speaking in generalities. I.e. "That's a difficult question, and when it's ones own body and one's ethics, the decision is an intensely personal one that may eclipse all objective considerations. That said, it looks like the issue at hand is whether commitment to work and one's colleagues is an appropriate reason to seek an abortion. Abortion, of course, is a very emotionally laden issue..."

Ya feel me? Turn it into an ethical debate with yourself and let them see how your mind works while grappling with difficult issues. All the while, drop hints (italicized) that the question is inappropriate.

Another option is simply to say, "that sounds like a very personal question," and segway into commenting on the complexity of the issue.

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

Sometimes my faculty, being volunteer and not necessarily used to interviewing others, will let slip with something inappropriate in an effort to be "friendly"--even though we remind them repeatedly with lists of inappropriate topics.
Nevertheless, if this was a Program Director, then he and his superior need to be told that they're putting their program at risk of lawsuit.

“Tell me about your family, do you have any kids?” is inappropriate during an interview but otherwise a perfectly friendly question. “Tell me if you would get an abortion to avoid inconveniencing your program” is so obviously beyond the pale that this faculty member either has no idea of normal social boundaries or was not trying to be friendly at all.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

“Tell me about your family, do you have any kids?” is inappropriate during an interview but otherwise a perfectly friendly question. “Tell me if you would get an abortion to avoid inconveniencing your program” is so obviously beyond the pale that this faculty member either has no idea of normal social boundaries or was not trying to be friendly at all.

Agreed. I'm always glad when they mention family somewhere in the app (PS or "Activities" or something), because then it's fair game to have a normal social conversation.

But I had one faculty new to our program who just blasted right in to "Where else are you applying...?" Gave my coordinator a panic attack when she heard about it.

 

[lockian]

I had one faculty new to our program who just blasted right in to "Where else are you applying...?" Gave my coordinator a panic attack when she heard about it.

We had a faculty member like that too, and they ended up being assigned a resident "babysitter" to do damage control during applicant social events.

 

[Mass Effect]

I just want to correct/clarify a few things:

1. It was the ASSOCIATE program director (I have the business card and just checked). SUPER SORRY for the confusion. However, I still want to know how to not kill the atmosphere while answering truthfully (e.g., I don't have plans to have any kids, but I don't plan on abstaining from sex).

2. The interview was at the very tail end of the whole day and it seemed weird rather than typical based on everything before it - doesn't justify it, but just an FYI.

3. I was definitely surprised and thrown off when the interview went this direction. At the time, I wasn't disgusted or offended in any way, just felt weird and my mindset was primarily on the impression I was making. It just felt like when someone asks you about an embarrassing hobby and you squirm.

To give context, my advisor told me to "try to be honest, be yourself" and subsequently "maybe not this honest. Don't list this (laughs)" referring to a hobby I excelled and won at but looks childish. So my mind was there when I was answering this, not violations and what is and isn't allowed to be asked. I didn't want to lie and say I'm going to be celibate; I also wanted to not leave a confrontational impression.

I felt answering anything but "I will abstain from sex" made the PD seem disappointed, and that got me more anxious, so my answers got more awkward. I remember all the stupid things I said, but I don't remember to what question I said them to anymore. For example, I tried to lighten the mood with, "Doctors are pretty coveted in society so it's kind of hard (laughs)" when I felt this topic was getting too weird/serious. Writing that just gives me cringe because it didn't do anything to lighten the air. The Associate PD was deadpan all the way through. Nothing justifies saying that during an interview, I know, even if the tension was high. Which is why I posted this: so I don't pull this again, can answer and shift the conversation, and move on to something I can brag about and impress the interviewer.

4. My first priority is getting to a position where my word actually matters. If I did anything, it would be on the other side of the Match, where I'm less fragile. Right now, I'm just another IMG with a failure who is bitter about not being able to match (that's not how I view myself, just how it looks). I doubt a person who has a vendetta for not matching has much impact on these kinds of things. Again, I don't have a vendetta, but I know what my position of zero power looks like. sb247 put it accurately: I can't be choosy at the moment.

I'm not traumatized or hurt by the experience. I can see this was highly unprofessional now, but that aspect is not a real concern for me right now. I'm sorry if that comes off as selfish, as I can see I'm only concerned about hurting myself and things backfiring instead of others who may experience this jerk. That's just the situation I'm in and reporting them has little chance of doing anything because I'm not anyone whose opinion matters.

Thanks for the candid feedback and sorry for the confusion.

I'm going to defer to others because I can't, in good conscious, answer what you're asking. The way I'm interpreting your question is you basically asking "I was mistreated. Please tell me how to appeal to others who may mistreat me so that they hire me."

No one here is going to pressure you into reporting it, but I, personally, can't advise you on how to answer such questions in the future if your goal is to work for such individuals because the two things just aren't compatible with my beliefs.

That said, I wish you well and I hope that you match at your top choice that doesn't pull these shenanigans.

 

[splik]

But I had one faculty new to our program who just blasted right in to "Where else are you applying...?" Gave my coordinator a panic attack when she heard about it.

this was some yrs ago but i was asked this by several program directors and faculty when i was applying for residency. It's a common question. It's usually innocuous though often applicants feel uncomfortable (I did not feel uncomfortable and just answered the question). Regardless, unless something has changed in the past few months, its not verboten. Programs can't ask how an applicant plans to rank them, but it is not a violation to ask where else applicants are applying. Hell, there is even a proposal to provide all programs with the list of programs applicants are applying to. This is unlikely to advance anywhere, but has been proposed by some to try to deal with madness we're facing in applications.

ETA: apparently it is verboten as I've learned from the post below!!

 

[dl2dp2]

I just want to correct/clarify a few things:

1. It was the ASSOCIATE program director (I have the business card and just checked). SUPER SORRY for the confusion. However, I still want to know how to not kill the atmosphere while answering truthfully (e.g., I don't have plans to have any kids, but I don't plan on abstaining from sex).

You should probably talk to the program director and get his interview expunged from your record at a minimum.

3. I was definitely surprised and thrown off when the interview went this direction. At the time, I wasn't disgusted or offended in any way, just felt weird and my mindset was primarily on the impression I was making. It just felt like when someone asks you about an embarrassing hobby and you squirm.

What I said above is actually the "correct" answer that set of questions. I know you are IMG and therefore aren't completely on top of your game with social etiquette in the US, but in *general*, in the US the more you set yourself as a "victim" of some sort with the implication that regulatory review would legitimately occur usually puts you in a stronger position of negotiation. So, ironically, if you insist that certain impropriety occurred, your chance of matching at a program actually *improves* if that makes any sense. Programs generally do not want to create a ruckus. In particular, once certain formal mechanisms start, the first thing an employment lawyer would ask is "what is your ask? (i.e. what's your starting offer at negotiation if they want to settle out of court?)" This could, for example, start with a guarantee to match.

 

[deleted736562]

This is a sad result of the match process where the power dynamics are rigged entirely in favor of programs. They know they can get away with terrible questions and they do. I also do think the "where you interviewed" question is inappropriate, maybe more innocuous than the examples in this thread, but inappropriate nonetheless.

I did have a few personal questions my way ("tell me something bad about your family" - and he wouldn't accept the answer I provided) which I also felt was entirely inappropriate. If you're lucky enough to have a choice, run and never look back.

 

[FlowRate]

this was some yrs ago but i was asked this by several program directors and faculty when i was applying for residency. It's a common question. It's usually innocuous though often applicants feel uncomfortable (I did not feel uncomfortable and just answered the question). Regardless, unless something has changed in the past few months, its not verboten. Programs can't ask how an applicant plans to rank them, but it is not a violation to ask where else applicants are applying. Hell, there is even a proposal to provide all programs with the list of programs applicants are applying to. This is unlikely to advance anywhere, but has been proposed by some to try to deal with madness we're facing in applications.

It was recently (within the last few years) added to the list of NRMP-forbidden questions.

The Match Participation Agreement states that applicants are free at all times to keep confidential the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply. A program director may not request the names, specialties, geographic location, or other identifying information about programs to which an applicant has or may apply. Programs that ask that information of applicants may be subject to a violation investigation.

 

[splik]

It was recently (within the last few years) added to the list of NRMP-forbidden questions.

Interesting! I bet a lot of people who interview applicants don't know this!

 

[NickNaylor]

I would second the suggestion to report this to the ACGME.

 

[Monocles]

Name and shame!

(or PM me and I'll name and shame)

 

[Billyrmd]

This is unbelievable, perhaps the PD has had multiple bad experiences recently with parent-interns.

 

[dl2dp2]

This is unbelievable, perhaps the PD has had multiple bad experiences recently with parent-interns.

Eh, this is neither here nor there The PD/associate PD clearly knows the rules. Whether or not there were bad experiences doesn't mean that this person is allowed to transgress professional boundaries.

 

[Billyrmd]

Eh, this is neither here nor there The PD/associate PD clearly knows the rules. Whether or not there were bad experiences doesn't mean that this person is allowed to transgress professional boundaries.

I completely agree. I am not justifying at all, just wondering what would drive someone to emphasize questions so bizarre.

 

[downwithDTB]

Whether or not this person "knows" the rules that is not an excuse. We are beholden to the law wether or not we are aware of it.

I encourage everyone to record every interview they have, both in one and two party consent states. If someone asks a question such as this they should be 1) publicly named and 2) you should ask for just compensation for their illegal action. Your first step should not be NRMP/ACGME or other toothless organization, it should be to the best lawyer you can't afford but can still somehow retain: these people have to pay with more than their careers.

Even if you have recorded the conversation illegally (i.e. in Florida or California) with out the others consent, you can still sue them for illegally discriminating against you, you can still get them on record denying it and then the recording can find its way to the internet. Be a hero of all those applying to residency programs and root out the evil one way or another. Don't just "rank low;" raise hell and demand resignations! Medicine must be better than this.

Also, if you need to wait until you match to name a name, do it. But the way I would answer this question is: "wow, unfortunately, you'll be discussing this with my lawyer, but I will at least be demanding you resignation in addition to a job."

 

[splik]

Whether or not this person "knows" the rules that is not an excuse. We are beholden to the law wether or not we are aware of it.

I encourage everyone to record every interview they have, both in one and two party consent states.

so you correctly highlight that ignorance to the law is not a defense, and then encourage people to break the law by illegally recording interviews?!! the recording can be used to dismiss any claims in 2 party consent states. Surreptitiously recording interviews (no way this is going to go unnoticed) is a great way to not match. There are no protections for whistleblowers in medicine, whatever institutions would have you believe.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm an IMG reapplicant (failed CS - since passed). I did interview before finding out about the failure, and one interview stood out as strange. The Program Director asked me about my sex life, and how I'm making sure not to have a kid during residency. Well, they didn't ask that, so much as they offered me to tell them that.

"Some students try to plan to have a kid during their intern year when they are most busy. What do you think about that?"
"Would you like to share how you plan on preventing a pregnancy since no method is 100% safe?"
"Maybe I'm not being clear. Do you think it's okay for an intern to opt for an abortion if the pregnancy is a burden to their coworkers?"

I answered pretty honestly because I wasn't planning on having kids anytime soon, but it was weird. When I spoke with my advisor last year about it, he said, "Yeah, I would put that program dead last." This was all before I found about the CS failure and withdrew from the match.

I know I have little chance this cycle, but I really fell in love with Psych and am just going to dual-apply with IM (which I suspect I have just as low a chance of matching into). If I happen to have an interview, how should I address these questions? Is there a way to not answer them without creating awkwardness?

Sorry for the weird thread and thank you for your help.

That is wildly inappropriate, my god

 

[Mad Jack]

Whether or not this person "knows" the rules that is not an excuse. We are beholden to the law wether or not we are aware of it.

I encourage everyone to record every interview they have, both in one and two party consent states. If someone asks a question such as this they should be 1) publicly named and 2) you should ask for just compensation for their illegal action. Your first step should not be NRMP/ACGME or other toothless organization, it should be to the best lawyer you can't afford but can still somehow retain: these people have to pay with more than their careers.

Even if you have recorded the conversation illegally (i.e. in Florida or California) with out the others consent, you can still sue them for illegally discriminating against you, you can still get them on record denying it and then the recording can find its way to the internet. Be a hero of all those applying to residency programs and root out the evil one way or another. Don't just "rank low;" raise hell and demand resignations! Medicine must be better than this.

Also, if you need to wait until you match to name a name, do it. But the way I would answer this question is: "wow, unfortunately, you'll be discussing this with my lawyer, but I will at least be demanding you resignation in addition to a job."

This is a violation of wiretapping laws in many states and can reach the level of felony. Your first line very explicitly shows that you're aware ignorance of the law is no excuse for failure to uphold it, so what are you even thinking?

 

[Mad Jack]

Since you are a IMG with a failure, I would think you would be thrilled to match at that program regardless of how inappropriate the interview was. Perhaps the interviewer was simply just trying to see how you would react to a stressful and inappropriate situation as often times pyschiatrists are required to do

An inappropriate situation is still inappropriate, regardless of intent, in the same way an inappropriate statement is still an inappropriate statement even if one is "just kidding." This is a pretty blatant violation of the standards of an ACGME interview.

 

[Mass Effect]

Whether or not this person "knows" the rules that is not an excuse. We are beholden to the law wether or not we are aware of it.

I encourage everyone to record every interview they have, both in one and two party consent states. If someone asks a question such as this they should be 1) publicly named and 2) you should ask for just compensation for their illegal action. Your first step should not be NRMP/ACGME or other toothless organization, it should be to the best lawyer you can't afford but can still somehow retain: these people have to pay with more than their careers.

Even if you have recorded the conversation illegally (i.e. in Florida or California) with out the others consent, you can still sue them for illegally discriminating against you, you can still get them on record denying it and then the recording can find its way to the internet. Be a hero of all those applying to residency programs and root out the evil one way or another. Don't just "rank low;" raise hell and demand resignations! Medicine must be better than this.

Also, if you need to wait until you match to name a name, do it. But the way I would answer this question is: "wow, unfortunately, you'll be discussing this with my lawyer, but I will at least be demanding you resignation in addition to a job."

I like you. LOL

 

[Mass Effect]

There are no protections for whistleblowers in medicine, whatever institutions would have you believe.

As someone who has blown the whistle, I felt protected. Perhaps it comes down to how you blow the whistle and whether or not you're trying to burn the place down. The support you have going into it also matters.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

There is shaping the world one person at a time, but there is also overly zealous crusading just because you like playing "I got you". Asking to record your interview would be a poor way to begin a dialog with your potential future PD. It would be hard to not sound a little paranoid at least. I would wonder what possible could have happened to this guy to make him record our first interaction.

 

[st2205]

What happened to ‘my body, my choice’? A program trying to give the impression they’d like to coerce a woman’s reproductive rights likely wouldn’t go over as swimmingly (i.e. wouldn’t be treated as “oh yeah, just rank them last,” or “you can file a complaint after you’ve matched elsewhere”) if their coercion was pushing a different direction. It’s beyond ludicrous, and the subtle implication that it’s more okay to let it slide because they’re an IMG is fairly disgusting.

As far as the question of how to handle it appropriately, you could tell them to **** off and it’s within the range of ‘appropriate.’ If you have a program that either fosters that culture, or even just has someone representing them that offers this kind of stuff on an interview, where do you think they’ll draw lines when they’ve got you on the hook for four years and hold the fate of your career in their hands?

 

[downwithDTB]

I was in no way suggesting playing your hand at all until absolutely necessary. No "gotcha at the end of the interview or start of the lawsuit." And yes, I was suggesting that a person who is being put in a position to be abused by illegal labor practices, which I consider to be a serious legal and moral issue keep a little dirt which may be illegal but I don't consider immoral given the potential for abuse. We might have fewer bad people in power going unnoticed if more people did this. We know that unfortunately there are real bad people out there doing as the OP suggested and they need to be taken out of positions of power by any non violent means.

I have nothing to hide when interview people and I'd change nothing if I was being recorded as should everyone here. I would actually welcome it because I have nothing to hide. I can't imagine any of us don't know someone who has worked with a physician who has committed seriously immoral acts at the expense of patients or colleagues, so mild paranoia is justified. Remember, pretty much every interviewee is carrying around a high quality recording device. If APD x did ask illegal questions, are they really going to be trying to convince some DA to go after you for breaking wiretapping laws if it garunteed that they got totally publicly fried?

Remember, it's not enough to "not rank" a place. That means that other people are going to be abused at the expense of the American tax payer and some unfortunate patients.

 

[WisNeuro]

. If APD x did ask illegal questions, are they really going to be trying to convince some DA to go after you for breaking wiretapping laws if it garunteed that they got totally publicly fried?

If it guarantees that the misconduct case gets thrown out, you bet your ass they will.

 

[Mass Effect]

What happened to ‘my body, my choice’? A program trying to give the impression they’d like to coerce a woman’s reproductive rights likely wouldn’t go over as swimmingly (i.e. wouldn’t be treated as “oh yeah, just rank them last,” or “you can file a complaint after you’ve matched elsewhere”) if their coercion was pushing a different direction.

What?

I was in no way suggesting playing your hand at all until absolutely necessary. No "gotcha at the end of the interview or start of the lawsuit." And yes, I was suggesting that a person who is being put in a position to be abused by illegal labor practices, which I consider to be a serious legal and moral issue keep a little dirt which may be illegal but I don't consider immoral given the potential for abuse. We might have fewer bad people in power going unnoticed if more people did this. We know that unfortunately there are real bad people out there doing as the OP suggested and they need to be taken out of positions of power by any non violent means.

I have nothing to hide when interview people and I'd change nothing if I was being recorded as should everyone here. I would actually welcome it because I have nothing to hide. I can't imagine any of us don't know someone who has worked with a physician who has committed seriously immoral acts at the expense of patients or colleagues, so mild paranoia is justified. Remember, pretty much every interviewee is carrying around a high quality recording device. If APD x did ask illegal questions, are they really going to be trying to convince some DA to go after you for breaking wiretapping laws if it garunteed that they got totally publicly fried?

Remember, it's not enough to "not rank" a place. That means that other people are going to be abused at the expense of the American tax payer and some unfortunate patients.

You're a bit too over the top for me, but actually, you make an excellent point. In this era of #metoo and #timesup, I think enough people in medicine have learned that even if a lawsuit is immediately thrown out, the damage done to one's reputation through an Internet disclosure, particularly if there's audio evidence, can be irreparable. At that point, I think most people on the receiving end of a misconduct allegation would favor going through a lawsuit than public shaming.