How to assess a Matchlist

[carrigallen]

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So, how do you assess a matchlist? Almost all schools will provide them, and they are listed for most schools online. But how do you compare them? 😕

Well, I came up with some criteria...granted, it is based on gross generalizations.



1) WHERE Do you want to match closer to where you have your family, friends? (ie California vs. Nebraska) Do you want to match to a big academic hospital? In a big city? Will this school give you a good chance of doing that?

So, count up the number matched to the area in which you want to live (ie west coast, southwest, etc)..or the city you want to live. Compare this to other schools. This will give you a vague idea of your relative mobility after graduating.

2) WHAT This is probably more what matchlist answers. This assesses the likelihood that a school can help you place in a competitive residency. Granted, it is theoretically possible to match to something like UCSF's rad-onc program from ANY school.
My method is just a really rough estimate. Tally the competitive residencies and divide by the total. Here is my competitive list [DERM, PLASURG, RAD-ONC, UROL, NEUSURG], and [RAD-DX, ANEST, OPTHO, OTOL, ORTHO]. This estimate cannot account for the complicated aspects of each school..

3) TOP CHOICES Also a good idea to look at % match to top 3 choices.

 

[edfig99]

Originally posted by carrigallen
So, how do you assess a matchlist? Almost all schools will provide them, and they are listed for most schools online. But how do you compare them? 😕

I don't think you can or should compare matchlists. Medical school classes are extremely diverse, not only in terms of people, but also in terms of what careers people choose. Also career selections depend on the field-du-jour. a few years ago, everyone was doin' the IM, peds thing....now it's ER, rads & IR... And much like pickin' a med school, pickin' residencies is multifactorial, and you can't get that information from a match list. All you can get from a match list is a simple list of where people went, and what people did...that's about it.


1) WHERE Do you want to match closer to where you have your family, friends? (ie California vs. Nebraska) Do you want to match to a big academic hospital? In a big city? Will this school give you a good chance of doing that?

So, count up the number matched to the area in which you want to live (ie west coast, southwest, etc)..or the city you want to live. Compare this to other schools. This will give you a vague idea of your relative mobility after graduating.


again, you absolutely cannot infer that from a match list -- how do you know there are students in a class that wanted to go to California...well if there aren't any, there won't be any matching in california, so you will make an inaccurate inference. And the school is only a small portion of you getting in...remember, it's your record they're lookin' at, not the school (schools only count very few points for most places.)


2) WHAT This is probably more what matchlist answers. This assesses the likelihood that a school can help you place in a competitive residency. Granted, it is theoretically possible to match to something like UCSF's rad-onc program from ANY school.
My method is just a really rough estimate. Tally the competitive residencies and divide by the total. Here is my competitive list [DERM, PLASURG, RAD-ONC, UROL, NEUSURG], and [RAD-DX, ANEST, OPTHO, OTOL, ORTHO]. This estimate cannot account for the complicated aspects of each school..

same as above...again, it varies from year to year depending on interest...

3) TOP CHOICES Also a good idea to look at % match to top 3 choices.

This information is no longer being provide as of the 2002 match by the NRMP, and schools do not know what their med students are ranking, so you can't tell anymore.

i would just look at a rank list and see how many fields of medicine are represented -- this would tell me that the school is doing an excellent job at presenting a wide range of fields and helping students achieve success in ANY clinical area. caution with the match lists that are super heavy in any one specialty...that's probably because that may be the best rotation at the institution, and everything else just leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

just my opinion.

 

[MSTP boy]

Just to clarify the above poster's comments: I don't know that the competitiveness of residencies changes that much from year to year.

That is, fields like family practice will always have tons of empty spots (not as popular), and fields such as derm will always be difficult (more popular). The trends have changed slightly in the past 10-15 years though...the biggest example being that gen surg is not as popular, wherease rads, anes are more popular.

It's true, just like applying for medical school, I think the school you attend is not as important as your individual performance; although maybe it's fair to say it does have some weight.

 

[GeneralTso]

Originally posted by carrigallen
So, how do you assess a matchlist? Almost all schools will provide them, and they are listed for most schools online. But how do you compare them? 😕

Well, I came up with some criteria...granted, it is based on gross generalizations.



1) WHERE Do you want to match closer to where you have your family, friends? (ie California vs. Nebraska) Do you want to match to a big academic hospital? In a big city? Will this school give you a good chance of doing that?

So, count up the number matched to the area in which you want to live (ie west coast, southwest, etc)..or the city you want to live. Compare this to other schools. This will give you a vague idea of your relative mobility after graduating.

2) WHAT This is probably more what matchlist answers. This assesses the likelihood that a school can help you place in a competitive residency. Granted, it is theoretically possible to match to something like UCSF's rad-onc program from ANY school.
My method is just a really rough estimate. Tally the competitive residencies and divide by the total. Here is my competitive list [DERM, PLASURG, RAD-ONC, UROL, NEUSURG], and [RAD-DX, ANEST, OPTHO, OTOL, ORTHO]. This estimate cannot account for the complicated aspects of each school..

3) TOP CHOICES Also a good idea to look at % match to top 3 choices.

1. I would remove Gas from the list but thats essentially all the competitive residencies so they make good starting points.

Some places are also renowned for feeding into specialties like G-town for Ortho and Yale that consistancy places an insane 5-10 people into derm.

2. I would also see the ratio of the class that goes into primary care vs specialties (i.e. does the school frown on specialties and thus makes your life more difficult)

3. IM and General Surgery at prestigious places (this and 2 i would use as tie breakers)

 

[carrigallen]

Originally posted by GeneralTso
1. I would remove Gas from the list but thats essentially all the competitive residencies so they make good starting points.

Some places are also renowned for feeding into specialties like G-town for Ortho and Yale that consistancy places an insane 5-10 people into derm.

2. I would also see the ratio of the class that goes into primary care vs specialties (i.e. does the school frown on specialties and thus makes your life more difficult)

3. IM and General Surgery at prestigious places (this and 2 i would use as tie breakers)

i agree with 2 &3. I don't know much about urol , I just assumed it was difficult since it's integrated and the corresponding IM fellowship is pretty competitive. I think the feeder factor is important, especially since some positions are filled outside of the match.
With all the malignancy that can accompany a seemingly prestigious program, it's pretty complicated to judge hospital names, no?

 

[Brewster]

As I see it, the most competitive specialties are:
derm, urology, ophtho, ENT, ortho, neurosurg, radiology

IM, gen surg, peds, FP, anesthesia, ob/gyn are all easier to get into this year, although these things go in cycles. As mentioned previously, spots at top programs are tough to get regardless of specialty.

I would look at the match list and get an overal gestalt of specialties represented and programs. You have to be careful judging quality of programs sometimes, though, because "name brand" hospitals can have subpar residency programs in certain specialties while some rinkydink place in the middle of nowhere may have the top program in the country. This is not always true, just something to be aware of.

 

[srmonkey]

Take into account the region of the school: West Coast schools will have more West Coast matching, etc......
Then go by specialties and programs, such as getting peds at Chidrens Hospital in Boston (very difficult). I don't know if there is a source on residencies, and tallying all of them yourself is a huge pain in the ass. You can't compare schools in different regions directly, so you have to figure out the top programs in that region and then compare by number of individuals matching into top programs. Every school will have people matching into great programs, so I would judge the overall proportion of where people match to eliminate outliers. This can give you a decent idea, but as was said before, different schools will have different focuses, so even comparing match lists this way is limited.
Ignore the top 3 match %, it means almost nothing. Students tailor their list to programs they have a realistic shot of getting into, which means few reaches and a higher %. From what I've seen every school has a high %.

 

[Downhill Racer]

Match List Assessment:

1. Top 1 % Match- I think this is the best indicator because students have variable interests in terms of field of study, location etc. But those that get into their respective top choice consistently (>90%) over the past few years attend schools that maintain a strong relationship with residency directors. Furthermore, this data is less dependent on location/residency factors. This information is not easy to find but some schools may post this on their websites or this can be determined at interviews.

2. Tim Wu (Allo forum moderator) had a good post regarding this (search for link) where he divided residencies into primary care vs. specialist (as mentioned by previous posters). Additionally, I think that surgery vs. non-surgery are major classes you can segregate yourselves based on interests -- ofcourse everything may change during 3rd year!

3. I think it would be an advantage if your med school had 4th year electives in fields of interest. That way you have a great opportunity to match into that program, at least. However, I am unclear how much preference a particular school gives its own students in the match process.

Personally, Match List analysis is low on my list of differentiating medical schools. I guess the caveat here would be any dual degree program, or a highly specific residency interest that is only offered at a few schools. Can you think of one? I can't. Anyway, I think our medical interests can change as we enter 3rd year rotations. The basic truth seems to be if you want to practice in a particular state, attend medical school there-- of course we dont need match lists to figure that one out!

 

[ewing]

I have started looking at matchlists, since schools give them to you and expect you to read them and make inteligent comments when you come for an interview.

What I do is look at the students matching in internal medicine (categorical), and then see what percent match at a list of about a dozen name-brand hospital programs that are geographically scattered throughout the U.S., but are def. national programs. The list includes such places as Hopkins, UCSF, Penn, U of Wash, Stanford, Yale, U of Chicago, Northwestern, and so forth. You should make your own list, emphasising your own geographical preferences. Some schools (esp. schools who have a hospital on this list) will get over half of their IM people into these programs; some schools will be sending people to the same cities, but to less prestigious programs...and will have a total of under 10% going to these hospitals.

Also, I look at percent matching in a list of a half-dozen competitve residencies. I use optho, ENT, NeuroSurg, Derm, PlasticSurg, and urology. My list is not complete, and neglects radiology, OMF,ortho and other arguably competitive residencies...the idea is just to find a sampling you're comfortable with, and apply it to every school you look at.

An 'A' matchlist will have over 75% of grads in IM at top programs and over 25% in the 6 specialites I look at.

A 'C' matchlist has less than 10% for each test.

I think that this is a quick and dirty way of getting about as much useful info. as can be gleaned from a matchlist (i.e. not much).

FYI, here's a good page of 2003 matchlists, if anyone has the time or energy to look at them (not me!): http://pub50.ezboard.com/fdermatologyfrm17.showMessageRange?topicID=1.topic&start=1&stop=20

Also, I'd appreciate any feedback on biases that my system might have...I really want to be fair...or at least systematic.

 

[elias514]

I don't see the freakin point of assessing match lists. The bottom line is this:

1) A disproportionate number of medical graduates stay at their respective institutions for residency, because residency directors generally prefer candidates they know (e.g., students at the medical school) and transitions to new cities and hospitals are a pain in the ass. Inbreeding is commonplace in the Match. Thus, if you're bound and determined to do your residency at Hopkins, then your best bet is to go to Hopkins med school.

2) Prestige is a SECONDARY factor in the residency matching process; clerkship evaluations, grades in select preclinical courses (e.g., anatomy), USMLE Step 1 score, and letters of recommendation are critically important. Thus, graduates of ANY medical school can match at ANY residency program in ANY specialty, provided that they have the "right stuff."

3) A residency program at a "name" institution does not necessarily translate into an superb educational experience. For instance, noone would argue with the statement that Yale medical school is a very prestigious institution--certainly one of the very best in the country. However, certain residency programs (e.g., emergency medicine) are not that great at Yale. In fact, programs at "unranked" medical schools can be far superior, in terms of educational value, to their counterparts at prestigious institutions. Thus, how can a pre-med possibly assess the overall "quality" of a match list, if he/she does not know what the truly great PROGRAMS (not institutions) really are.

4) The overall quality of a residency program depends largely on subjective factors. The "fit" of a residency stems from what YOU desire in a program. How can a pre-med label a match list "great" without any reliable foreknowledge of specialty choice--the vast majority of medical students do not choose a specialty until 3rd year of medical school--and preferences regarding program details? It's impossible. In addition, the subjective quality of residency assessment means that one candidate's list of great programs may differ considerably from another candidate's list.

The quality of match lists was not a factor in my decision to attend the University of Michigan Medical School, the prestige of the institution notwithstanding. I based my decision on the quality of the preclinical and clinical facilities (I wanted modern, clean facilities with state-of-the-art technology), the location of the med school (Ann Arbor is a very safe, quintessential college town--a great fit for me), the curriculum (I wanted an organ-systems approach during the preclinical years and a good mix of PBL and lecture), and my "gestalt" feeling during the interview. The prestige is a fringe benefit, as far as I'm concerned. I would NEVER attend Johns Hopkins med school for the maximum prestige that it affords; four years in Baltimore would suck ass.

 

[J33]

Everyone says that "brand name" hospitals don't necessarily have the best programs in every specialty, and that some "no name" hospitals have great programs, and that it is difficult to tell by a matchlist. My question is: does anyone know where we might find a list of the better programs for various residencies? There is obviously no US News ranking of residencies, so it's not as easy to look up the top programs, but does anyone know how? This information would help out a lot when trying to look at the different matchlists. Thanks.

 

[DrJ2B]

Hey J33,

I would think that the rankings of hospitals (US News does this) would help in determining which places have the best residencies. I am not saying that is the end-all and be-all but it probably correlated well with the caliber of the program. That is just my 2 cents.

 

[Optimist]

Originally posted by Downhill Racer
2. Tim Wu (Allo forum moderator) had a good post regarding this (search for link) where he divided residencies into primary care vs. specialist (as mentioned by previous posters). Additionally, I think that surgery vs. non-surgery are major classes you can segregate yourselves based on interests -- ofcourse everything may change during 3rd year!

I believe this is problematic, because it only represents the different primary care/specialty fields that students happened to be interested in, not what the school could have done for any one applicant. For example, even if a large number of med students end up in a particular specialty, it doesn't mean that they couldn't have done one of numerous other residencies. It simply means they wanted that particular field and chose it.

Of course, if you want to do primary care, then by all means choose a school where more than 1/2 of students join primary care residencies. But don't necessarily assume anything about that school's potential in the specialties.