ultane123

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hey - just wondering if any of you have had to deal with a horrible gunner or annoying person on your inpatient teams? like someone who goes beyond the call of duty at every moment or a "know it all"?? the type of person you would NEVER spend a moment with outside of work. how do you minimize them but still look like a team player? any advice???
u.
 

bustbones26

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This really depends on who is on the team. Believe it or not, most residents and attendings can pick up on the fact that the person is a gunner and is annoying. Unfortunately, sometimes this is not the case.

Discuss this with your senior resident, call him/her aside and say, "hey look, I am really trying, but its hard to do when so and so won't give me chance to answer pimp questions, yada yada yada". I think that is the best approach. I was in a situation like this once, the gunner on my team would pimp me in front of rounds, pimp the team intern, finish answers to questions before you even had a chance to think, etc. etc. When the senior resident met with me in the middle of the rotation to discuss my performance and if I had any complaints, I really wish I had brought this up to him. Oh well, my mistake, don't do that same.
 
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ultane123

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thats a good point. i think it's a delicate balance between not looking like a team player and echoing what they already think of the other student when raising a red flag to the senior resident. i guess it all depends on the individual dynamic.

you would just hope that pleasantly interacting with the team, while remaining relatively tight-lipped witht the other student, couldnt hurt you.



bustbones26 said:
This really depends on who is on the team. Believe it or not, most residents and attendings can pick up on the fact that the person is a gunner and is annoying. Unfortunately, sometimes this is not the case.

Discuss this with your senior resident, call him/her aside and say, "hey look, I am really trying, but its hard to do when so and so won't give me chance to answer pimp questions, yada yada yada". I think that is the best approach. I was in a situation like this once, the gunner on my team would pimp me in front of rounds, pimp the team intern, finish answers to questions before you even had a chance to think, etc. etc. When the senior resident met with me in the middle of the rotation to discuss my performance and if I had any complaints, I really wish I had brought this up to him. Oh well, my mistake, don't do that same.
 

snowinter

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Hey,

I had a gunner like this and we were together for the first 6 months of our rotation. I was SO MISERABLE in the beginning.. . I thought we were finally finished being together wehn the first 2 months were over-- but the schedule had us together on the next rotation too! So, I pulled him aside at the end of the day adn said "hey i'll wait for you and can we talk for a bit after work today? " and said "hey ur being an dingus and gave him examples and told him to quit it" .. (i did say it more politley but i was VERY FRANK AND HONEST--it was a good 30 minute talk) .. he didnt' talk to me for a day or so.. but then he totally calmed down and changed. We are really good friends now and I wish I had more rotations with him b/c we used each other's energy to study and learn. But I know exactly what you are feeling .. and this guy would pimp me in front of interns /residents too. so My advice: talk to the guy honestly too. soemtimes ppl get so caught up in their own insecurities to look good.. u know? they really aren't meaning to be the assholes they have become. also, ask him/her if there is anything you are doing too... that he /she wouldn't mind changing.j

the thing is : if there is tension the residents pick it up.. and they dotn necessarily know who started it.. even if you think you are teh good guy. its better for your health and overall grade if everythign is going smoothly than if you are constantly holding things in when the other guy is annoying the hell out of you.

good luck!
:) snowinter!
 

14022

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I think you need to be honest about whether he is really being an a**hole or if he is just really smart and trying to look good. You cannot blame a person for working hard and studying and trying to show his knowledge on the wards as long as he is being respectful of the other people on the team.

For example, if he answers quickly and correctly any questions asked to him directly or to the entire team, you cannot blame him for that. If you knew the answer, you would answer quickly too.

However, if this person is answering questions directed to you, then he is being inappropriate and should be confronted respectfully. If this person is going out of his way to show the team how much more he has done then he should also be confronted. My roommate had a guy on the team who would always pick up a patient or two more than him, which is fine, but this person would always comment on it in rounds in front of the attending, which is pretty crappy. "I saw 5 patients today, how many did you see?" when he knew the other students only saw 3 or 4.

I heard of a person pimping residents in front of the attendings on rounds and stuff. This person did not need a confrontation because the residents hated him. By the nature of his behavior, the other students looked good and got better evaluations. The chief resident in his presentation in orientation for future student rotating through the clerkship actually used this person as an example (and used his name as well) as how not to act.

I know it is tough to deal with people like this but you have decided to go into a profession where egos and type-a personalities run rampant. You will be dealing with people like this on a regular basis for the rest of your life. Now is the time to either learn how to deal with it and ignore it or to learn how to respectfully confront these people. It is always better if people like this are working with you than against you. My mom always told me to deal with difficult people by "killing them with kindness." If kindness doesnt work, then just kick him in the nuts.
 

klubguts

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I had a similar experience during third year and chose to directly confront the person....said something like i know you want to do well on this rotation, but i would appreciate it if you don't interrupt me or check things on my patients etc....it made things a little better for me during that rotation. I did this mostly because i was frequently peaved and didn't feel obligated to put up with that behavior from a classmate. My advise would be to talk directly with that individual, not go around them (ie, to residents, faculty, clerkship directors). The people "evaluating" you likely see right through his/her behavior anyway (and probably find it equally as annoying). Good luck.
 

doc05

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the reason you're having problems with your classmates is that most medical students are insecure tools and don't know any better. confront them early and often, because otherwise you will be miserable.

p.s. residents tend to pick up on their behavior, and their evaluations usually (though not always) reflect it.
 

MediCane2006

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Sometimes being on a rotation with a very competitive student can push you to do your best - especially if you're like me and pretty laid-back. I know that the rotation on which I did the best was one in which I was paired with a wanna-be neurosurgeon, and every time I was tempted to slack off, the fact that I knew she was on my team kept me going.

However, there is a difference between being competitive and sabotaging your fellow students. If the student in question is purposely (or even inadvertently) making you look bad by answering questions directed at you, writing notes on your patients, or showing you up blatantly on rounds, I would first approach the student him/herself before going to the resident. If he/she won't listen, then approach the intern or resident for support. Unprofessionalism of this kind is really not helpful either to you or to the team and should be dealt with accordingly.

Good luck!
 

PairODocs

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I finally took aside one of our most notorious class gunners recently after he stole one of my patients I had been seeing for several days- leaving me with a multi organ failure ICU pt to see in 30 mins. He chose to see my pt BECAUSE I HAD ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF EVERYTHING for him. (Keep in mind this guy is one of the most vocal "continuity of care" people- all lip service) The gunner somehow failed to notice the pts foot had become dusky and cold in a day :eek: (Attending and I had seen it the previous morning) the pt ended up w an amputation! and the gunner even went to the surgery after I told him Mr X was my patient and to stay away. :mad:

The guy is one of those class president types who kisses every faculty a$$ possible. He was not in the top 14 of our class but still ended up AOA (bumping a super nice guy who was trying for derm and was nom for Jr AOA!) He even sent all the other AOA people an email telling them how "honored" he was for being a part of the group. Stop the butt kissing already- you got in! Plus, most of those elected were pretty pissed because it was so obviously political in his case and another so clearly deserved it.

Anyway, I finally just told him to back off because he was a back stabbing liar. He was shocked into silence because no one had ever called him on his lies before, but I did. He simmered for a day or two, then he came after me.

Well 2 days later we had a death in the family and everyone knew. My team knew it b/c my husband is a resident. Heck, the whole hospital knew. So, this gunner chooses this day (which he knew about) to bi*%^ me out..... but he did so TWICE- once in front of one of the unit nurses (not so invisible, not so stupid!) The nurse knows that my husband and I are just decent people trying to get by all this and do a decent job. By lunch time the whole hospital knew the guy was a total a$$. At the time it was hard to take, but FINALLY they KNEW the same guy my friends and I knew from rotations.

It took until 4th year, but it finally got out that he is a real jerk and does not belong in this profession. I had several physicians who found about this to tell me they had suspected he was just an a$$ kisser. I am sure he will end up an administrator in the future.

Be patient. Make sure no one hears you when you do it. DO NOT be a doormat. I am very proud of myself for standing up finally!
 

irrka

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As to residents and attendings picking up on someone being a ridiculously nasty gunner: in my experience, not if the gunner sucks butt enough. Apparently, if their derriere is getting kissed attendings/residents are oblivious to any of the person's faults. Unfortunately true not just for medicine. I've met quite a few people who're so obviously sucking up that everyone around them just stands gaping in shock, except for the person they're sucking up to, who thinks that person is the best thing since sliced bread.
 

tega

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some of you guys need to stop bitching…..if the student is answering questions directed at you, then that is inappropriate. However if it’s a free question and he answers it before you…..maybe he/she is smarter. Either applaud and congratulate him, or study harder…but don’t come on here to complain like a little girl.

Of course there are situations where the other student is directly sabotaging you….and numerous examples have been mentioned already. In that case, u can always mention it to the residents/attending, or better confront the student directly.

But one thing though…it courteous to allow other students answer questions…..if u have answered 3 or so consecutive questions. And usually the QUESTIONER….attending or resident should ensure others participate also.