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How to determine is residency is good?

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by anbuitachi, Sep 6, 2014.

  1. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member
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    How do I tell if a residency program is good or not? I'm looking at Freida to get information on programs but for programs outside of my region, I can't really tell how good it is, or how competitive the program is (most programs just list no step requirement of low step requirement (~200-220). For example, I was looking at Mayo clinic, cleveland clinic, case western, but I can't tell which is superior or more competitive? Any advice?
     
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  3. gasdoc77

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    You may have to be a little more specific in what you are looking for. Good in name, good in training, or good in lifestyle and/or some combination thereof.
    How would you rank your priorities?
     
  4. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member
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    My first step is figuring out how difficult it is to get into the program. I'm trying to apply to maybe 15 reach/next to impossible schools, 15 mid tiers, 5-10 'low tiers'. However the program is, I can't tell if a program is mid or high tier usually. Like for Mayo clinic, I know its a well known name in general, has a top medical school, and excels in certain aspects of medicine, but I don't know if that applies to anesthesiology. And also in terms of name recognition, I dont know which top programs are regionally well known vs nationally

    Or what are important things on Freida to look out for (other than location..) in terms of quality of training.
     
    #3 anbuitachi, Sep 6, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
  5. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Mayo (Rochester) is a top name. You will need solid scores 230+ to match or have other skills I'm not able to mention on this forum.

    Case Western and Cleveland Clinic are mid tier programs.
     
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  6. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 235
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 251
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 43%


    Mayo Rochester. If you have at least one step score over 240 then give it a shot.
     
  7. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 218
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 239
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%


    Solid Mid Tier program. Case Western
     
  8. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 203
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 222
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 12%


    Univ of Toledo. Bottom 1/3 program
     
  9. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member
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    Wow thats a LOT of AOA students!!! Where are you finding step information? It's not listed on Freida.
     
  10. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 223
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 233
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 0%


    Henry Ford Hospital. Bottom 1/3 program
     
  11. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    You can save yourself a lot of time and money by doing your research. I also think programs like to "puff up" their statistics. If you are close to the mean scores then apply. A good Step 1 or Step 2 will help a lot.
     
  12. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 206
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 219
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 28%


    Univ of Vermont: Bottom 1/3 program
     
  13. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 224
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 236
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 25%


    West Virginia: Bottom 1/3
     
  14. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Georgetown: Bottom 1/3


    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 177
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 235
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%

     
  15. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Western Penn: Bottom 1/3

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 220
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 228
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 30%

     
  16. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Brookdale Univ (N.Y.): Bottom 1/3
    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 224
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 216
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 0%


     
  17. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Nassau Univ (Long island, N.Y.)

    Bottom 1/3
     
  18. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Cook county: Bottom 1/3
     
  19. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Maimonides: Bottom 1/3

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 220
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 233
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 0%
     
  20. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Medical College of Georgia: Bottom 1/3

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 203
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 241
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 18%
     
  21. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Suny Upstate: Bottom 1/3

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 219
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 228
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 25
     
  22. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Loma Linda: Bottom 1/3

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 195
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 240
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 28%
     
  23. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Mayo (Jacksonville): Bottom 1/3

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 192
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 245
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%
     
  24. Consigliere

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    Blade. Stop.
     
  25. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Univ. of Louisville: Bottom 1/3

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 199
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 244
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 20%
     
  26. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Sure. I am getting bored anyway. I'm just proving a point here. A little research goes a long way.
     
  27. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    One of my favorite Mid Tier Programs is Univ. of pittsburgh. You get top 20 training for a mediocre Step score. Texas has a few solid mid tier programs as well. Those of you with 230 Step 1 and 235 Step 2 scores have a lot of excellent programs to choose from.

    What I am saying is that solid Mid Tier programs offer equal or better training that some of the top 20 programs so don't sweat it. With effort any of these quality programs (Mid Tier or higher) and you will be an excellent Anesthesiologist.
     
  28. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man
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    The problem with Pittsburgh is that it's in Pittsburgh.
     
  29. urge

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    Pretty interesting info, Blade.

    I never imagined programs with name recognition, like Loma Linda or Georgetown, were lower third programs.
     
  30. BobBarker

    BobBarker Member
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    Blade, where did you get that data?
     
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  31. anes

    anes ASA Member
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    Blade... do California. I can't find the info that you have.
     
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  32. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member
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    177?!!?!? The average failed by 15 points?

    How is the average so low yet 33% are AOA?!
     
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  33. courtnes

    courtnes ASA Member
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    Pretty sure there was a calculation error based on incomplete info.
     
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  34. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass
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    Why? It's interesting. :corny:

    I'm waiting for him to insult my program. :D

    P.S. I think the data might be from matchapplicants.com. (I can't find the primary source.)
     
    #33 FFP, Sep 6, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
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  35. BobBarker

    BobBarker Member
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    Yes, I am waiting to for my program to be ranked as bottom third.

    Programs like Maimo are bottom of the barrel. I don't think a Mayo satellite is even close to being in their class.
     
  36. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass
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    Funny thing is, in 5-10 years, the "top" programs will be happy to have the kind of applicants they refuse today. :p
     
  37. cognitus

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    Earnings of grads from top programs = earnings of grads from bottom programs. It's all the same as long as they train you right.
     
  38. Chip N Sawbones

    Chip N Sawbones Ship's Carpenter
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    FFP, thank you for the link. That's a great resource. After spending some time looking at the actual stats of the people who got interviews its easy to see that there is a glitch in the way the website calculates the average at some of the schools, so Georgetown isn't really interviewing people with at 177 average. They took students with a 197 and a 198, though, which I found very encouraging. I've been struggling in school, and it was encouraging to see that as long as I can keep passing everything I can probably match somewhere in anesthesiology. Despite the employment and midlevel problems, it's hard to think of a better specialty that's open to students with <200 step scores.
     
  39. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass
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    I wouldn't rely much on the info on that site. Too little data.
     
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  40. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    I'm not insulting anyone's program. I'm just trying to point out those programs which accept Med Students with a Step 1 of 200 and a step 2 of 210-220.

    I agree with you that in 5 years mid tier programs will be taking Step 1 scores of 200 on a regular basis.
     
  41. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    And they are "interview" numbers not match numbers which will be lower for the bottom 1/3 of the programs.

    AOA statistics are INTERVIEW numbers and NOT match numbers. This means if you are AOA they grant you an interview provided you applied to their program. This doesn't mean that program GOT 30% AOA med students to matriculate with them.
     
  42. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass
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    I saw that I was wrong, hence I edited my answer.

    Some of those reviews are funny: apparently at Mount Sinai they spend the interview day in scrubs. :)
     
  43. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    It isn't about earnings per se but rather Fellowship opportunities, networking and a good job in academics. Also, the consistency of training is better for Mid Tier and higher programs. Bottom 1/3 may or may not offer solid training in all areas of anesthesia. Naturally, there will be those individuals who excel DESPITE their Residency programs.
     
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  44. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 204
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 245
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%


    Univ. of California Irvine- Bottom 1/3 (upper portion of the bottom 1/3)
     
  45. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    LAC Harbor- UCLA

    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 197
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 223
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 25%

    Bottom 1/3

     
  46. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    And New Haven is so much better? Dartmouth? There are big name programs in crappier locations than Pittsburgh. I'm from the South so for me cold weather is out. But, Texas (Dallas) or Atlanta (Emory) or UNC are good mid tier programs. Univ of Miami is on the rise as well (weather doesn't get much better). Still, Pittsburgh offers fantastic training for average/slightly above average Step scores.
     
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  47. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 233
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 252
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 50%


    Wake Forest is another solid Mid tier Program with a great Southern location.
     
  48. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 199
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 239
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 20%

    Univ of Miami. Bottom 1/3 or Mid Tier? My hunch is that they want you to think they are mid tier but an allopathic med student with a Step 1 of 209 and a step 2 of 230 could still match there.
     
  49. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA ASA Member
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    Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 213
    Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 241
    Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%


    There was a time (15 years ago) that U.F. was a top 20 program. No longer. Now it is Mid Tier because Gainesville doesn't have the case exposure that true top 20 programs offer their Residents.
     
  50. anbuitachi

    anbuitachi ASA Member
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    But dont academic centers prefer ppl from better named schools? Seeing as how everyone is becoming employed these days its perhaps better to go to a better school? Most ppl are not going into research. Question is, why are people trying so hard to get into higher ranked places if in the end it doesn't really matter?

    edit: just saw blakes response hahah.
     
  51. Koan

    Koan ASA Member
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    Thanks for posting all this Blade. If the data is from matchapplicants can we assume it's still accurate? Seems like a lot of those profiles are from 2008/2009.
     

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