How to tell the Wife!

[BritPhd]

Hello Everyone,

Well I have been lurking on here for a while now while contemplating applying for Med School, and love reading all your great advice and comments. Medicine has been my dream since I was a boy, however due to immaturity during my 6th form years at school (ages 16-18) I failed to make it to Med School in England and did a Biochemistry degree instead, followed by a PhD.

Here are my stats!
1. I am 36
2. Born in England, UK but have lived in California for the past 8 years as a Post-Doc and Senior Research Scientist.
3. Married with one kid.
4. Planning on getting a US based science GPA score in the next year.
5. Permanent US resident.

I have bought my MCATs books which I secretly read at work in the mornings and evenings. At some point I have to let my wife know what I am doing I think she will be supportive but it may come as a bit of a shock to her. I am still thinking of how to tell her.

I have many concerns but my biggest is the money side of things. Are there any other non-US citizens at US medical schools out there who can relate their experiences. Are we eligible for student loans etc.., are foreign born doctors accepted in this country?

Good luck to everyone out there.

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[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

couple issues here -

technical - this is addressed in the MSAR (printed by AAMC, around $25 and it should be in most libraries), I'd look at the #s there for non-us citizens being accepted to us schools, I recall the number of non-us citizens being maybe 300 among the 18,000 accepted students. Is it possible to become a US citizen if you definitely intend to stay here? the MSAR has some loan info, I'd contact the loan offices directly regarding loan eligibility as a non-us citizen.

2) how to tell your wife? I did this several years ago, it took a bit of time to sink in, but when we spoke about it she listened to why I wanted to go this route, and she said that she could see me going this path and that my reasons made sense. Much of this went easy because she's "risk seeking", and comfortable with the substantial uncertainty of not knowing which state we'll be living in as a med student, possibly moving again with our children after med school for residency, etc. But it's essential that the spouse buys in.

Had you looked at med schools in the UK? typical US student debt loads after graduation (again, this is listed in the MSAR) are often around 130,000 or higher, I've seen as low as upper 60's, and has high as 170,000 average indebtedness upon graduation from med school.

good luck, it's a wild ride!

 

[BritPhd]

Thanks nontrdgsbuiucmd. I think the wild ride is part of the attraction I have looked into British med schools but my wife and I have fallen in love with US so moving back home is not very attractive. Citizenship is another option but it is a lengthy one which will delay me even longer. If I am lucky I will be 38 when I start medical school.
I will be sure to get the AAMC book - thanks for that info.

 

[SonyaB]

FAQs: Eligibility

• Who is eligible to receive federal student aid?
• Can I use FAFSA on the Web to estimate my Expected Family Contribution (EFC)?
• How much financial aid am I eligible to receive?
• I have my EFC. How much money will I receive?
• I’ve been convicted of a drug offense. Does this mean I won’t get any aid?
• What is an acceptable drug rehabilitation program?

Who is eligible to receive Federal Student Aid?

To receive federal student aid, you must meet certain requirements. You must:

• Be a U.S. citizen or eligible non-citizen
• Have a valid Social Security Number (unless you’re from the Republic of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of Palau).
• Register with Selective Service if you are male and 18 to 25 years of age (go to www.sss.gov for more information).
• Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) Certificate or pass an exam approved by the U.S. Department of Education.
• Be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program at a school that participates in the federal student aid programs.
• Not have a drug conviction for an offense that occurred while you were receiving federal student aid (such as grants, loans, or work-study)

Also:

• You must not owe a refund on a federal grant or be in default on a federal student loan.
• You must demostrate financial need (except for unsubsidized Stafford Loans).

Other requirements may apply. Contact your school’s financial aid office for more information.

 

[BritPhd]

Thanks SonyaB - really appreciate you posting that. The eligible non-US citizen bit is a bit confusing but I think it must mean Permanent Resident (Green Card).

 

[montessori2md]

Maybe because I'm female I took a different approach, but to me it wasn't "tell" so much as it was a "ask" or "talk to about" situation. There was no way I was going to dump my spouse for an MD, so I needed to ask him what he thought, because if his response was to go through the roof, I would have found something less stressful to adventure in (DC Public School teacher? )

Given that you're in California, which is notoriously impossible to get into, and all the other unknown variables (GPA, fin aid, MCAT, etc), I'd lean towards, "What would you think if..." or "How would you feel if....". My thoughts, which mean very little, given that I don't know you, your wife, or your relationship.

I talked to my DH while we were on a camping trip...no cell phones, computers, tvs, and we'd been there a couple of days, so we were pretty well decompressed.

 

[Scottish Chap]

BritPhd: we have stinkingly similar backgrounds and personal situations. If you've not already done so, you might want to check out my previous posts (particularly those in the PhD-to-MD section in the sticky here: http://74.202.11.228/showpost.php?p=6420517&postcount=6). Feel free to pm me if you have specific questions that you don't want to post.

 

[thoffen]

As a fellow married man, I have to tell you that you must include your wife in this sooner rather than later. I mean, this isn't a decision that only affects you (your nerves are probably why you've snuck around with it). Just spit it out and talk it over.

 

[INDIGOSOLAR]

I agree with the above post. No easy way to go about it. She'll either be on board or she won't. Med school can put a REAL strain on a relationship. In my case it helped lead me to a divorce. It was'nt the main cause of course but it put a huge strain. Working less to do pre-reqs and all the other stuff u need to do for med school was too much, and she was very supportive... IN THE BEGINNING.

Every relationship is diffrent but be prepared for some stressfull times. Sorry to be so negative but if you are so afraid to tell her you are sneaking to study, you must have a good reason.

just my two cents

 

[student1799]

If you and your wife know each other well, and have talked before about your hopes and dreams for the future, I think this won't come as too much of a surprise for her. If you haven't had that talk, there's no better time than now.

I'm a female nontrad, married with kids. Fortunately, my husband and I have had those kind of talks over the years. We both used to work on Wall Street (he still does), but he'd told me he wants to leave the business someday and be a high-school math teacher, and he knew about my dream of being a doctor. In fact, I'd told him about it when I had a really strong desire to do this about eight years ago, but decided it wouldn't work. (The kids were only 1 and 4 then, and it just would have wreaked havoc on our home life.) I had already pretty much made the decision in my own mind before I related it to him, but I explained why I wanted it so much anyway.

So when my company closed down three years ago and I was feeling lost because I didn't want to work on Wall Street anymore, HE was the one who brought up the idea of going back to school. He knew how much I still wanted this, and he (rightly) assumed I was unlikely to consider it unless I knew he was on board. After a period of research and reflection, I started a 2-year postbacc (which I just finished this spring), and I'm applying to med school this summer.

The point I'm trying to make here is that it's a good idea for couples to share some of their daydreams, long-term projects and wild ambitions with each other, even if they won't necessarily come to fruition. If your partner has heard you talk about some of this stuff before, it won't shock them as much when you tell them you really want to go after one of those dreams.

 

[LonghornMD]

couple issues here -

technical - this is addressed in the MSAR (printed by AAMC, around $25 and it should be in most libraries), I'd look at the #s there for non-us citizens being accepted to us schools, I recall the number of non-us citizens being maybe 300 among the 18,000 accepted students. Is it possible to become a US citizen if you definitely intend to stay here?

I need to really look into this.

I did not realize it is a big issue with med school admission process to be a non-citizen..... I better look into this.

I wonder if it makes any difference that I have been in the U.S. for 24 years and married to a U.S. Citizen.....

 

[Scottish Chap]

I need to really look into this.

I did not realize it is a big issue with med school admission process to be a non-citizen..... I better look into this.

I wonder if it makes any difference that I have been in the U.S. for 24 years and married to a U.S. Citizen.....

If you have a green card, it does not make a difference. U.S. medical schools treat your application the same as they do for U.S. citizens, and you are eligible for federal loans to attend LCME-accredited U.S. and Canadian medical schools.

The only two issues are being on an F-1 visa (international student status) or having an undergraduate degree earned outside of the U.S. or Canada. Neither are insurmountable.....just read SDN and see.

 

[Valvool]

You'll get in if your stats are decent, just don't apply to public schools, they can only accept citizens. Private schools accept whomever they please. I currently attend a private institution and some of my classmates are non-citizens.

 

[BlinkUnquiet]

You are eligible to apply to public or private Schools as long as a permanent resident Alien or a citizen.
If you are an international student, then private is your top choice.

 

[ayushman80]

As far as medical school entrance goes, US permenant residents and citizens are pretty much the same thing. If you've been living here 8 years you also should have residency status and should be VERY close to getting your citizenship approved.

As long as you do well on the MCAT and well in the science prereqs you should not have an issue. Definately talk to your wife in a calm manner though. You are going to have your hands full studying, working, and raising a family.

I feel for you. It has taken me 3 years to transition from the military to medicine. I hope everything works out for you. Just talk to your wife. I am sure she will be supportive. A supportive spouse does wonders for achieveing your goals in life.

Best of luck!

 

[t33sg1rl]

You'll get in if your stats are decent, just don't apply to public schools, they can only accept citizens. Private schools accept whomever they please. I currently attend a private institution and some of my classmates are non-citizens.

I'm a Canadian citizen, and I go to a public US school, paid for with a combo of government loans and scholarships. As long as you're a permanent resident it's a non issue.

And just to clarify for many people-being a permanent resident does NOT mean that you are in the process of US citizenship. After 5 years of permanent residency, you can begin the process of citizenship if you want, but you don't have to if you don't want to.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

I think the original poster has gotten some great advice here. I'm no expert on immigration, but as a permanent resident you have no worries at all.

I would suggest that you bring your wife into your dream - as quickly as possible. I know you're just doing a little private MCAT study but, in all honesty, that's a bad sign. Your marriage and your child are going to be put under tremendous stresses if you go to medical school and you need to start involving your partner in the process now. I'm a single non-trad (and medical school has been very hard on my poor German Shepherd ) but I've watched a couple of non-traditional students who had marriages collapse during school - and it was because the spouse hadn't fully bought-in to the dream.

Also, not that it should impact your decision, but the statistics on debt quoted in this thread are, in my opinion, misleading. $120-$130K is the current "average" debt on graduation - but that means nothing, because there are no average-debt students. Some traditional students come from physician families and don't borrow at all - and God bless 'em for that opportunity. The rest of us go much more heavily into debt than $120 these days. I go to a very inexpensive school in an inexpensive state - and, even with a scholarship, I'll be over $180K in debt at graduation (with no undergraduate debt at all). I don't know any student who is supporting himself who is borrowing less than $45K/year, even at my school.

 

[murfettie]

citizenship:
as long as you have a green card, they don't care if you are a citzen or not.
they just want people who wants to stay in america and are able to.
i reseracehd this topic. it's fine.
even during the citizenship test: the only difference between green card and citizneship is??
"voting"! not medical school admissions.
oh.. you also dont have jury duty