How well do you know your letter writers?

[Avicenna]

So I'll be schmoozing *hard* with my bio profs this semester and got a good lor lined up from a research PI. But I never talked to any of my previous profs, and i'm not taking any non-sci classes this semester. I maybe have a math graduate TA that could write but there's so many gray areas I'd be testing (math=sci? letter writer=GTA?) also the only way we know each other is that I got the highest grade in the class and we always chatted, but never about class lol.
With that said, my questions:

1. 2 sci, 1 non-sci lor is sufficient for all schools?
2. Can a GTA write a lor? does math count as sci?
3. Can a PI write a lor if you never had a class with her (she's sci faculty) and have that count as the sci LOR? She'd prob write the best one, me and her are tight
4. were any of your lors from people you only knew "kinda well"?

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[neuro17]

1. for professors, yes. but IMO you should have some non-professor letters too - employers, volunteer coordinators, doctors you shadowed and have built a significant relationship with

2. i don't think TAs can write letters, even if they're graduate TAs. and i would say math counts as science. i think with the "non-sci" requirement they want to see a humanities professor (English, foreign language, history, government, religion, anthro, socio, dance, anything)

3. was she your PI for research you did? or is she just the PI for a random lab at your school? it might be weird for her to explain in her letter how she knows you/why you're a good candidate if you never took a class with her and she didn't supervise your work in any way

4. i think one of my letters will be from someone i know "kinda" well. but that's 1 out of 5, and i'm hoping the other 4 will be strong. i wouldn't stress about 1 letter that isn't from a prof that is also your bff. you gotta work with what you got.

cheers

 

[super-scribe]

I applied with 3 LOR, one from my biochem professor and major advisor, one from another bio professor, and one from my supervisor at work. I didn't really know my other bio professor but it worked out ok.

 

[Avicenna]

I applied with 3 LOR, one from my biochem professor and major advisor, one from another bio professor, and one from my supervisor at work. I didn't really know my other bio professor but it worked out ok.

u apply md?

 

[Cinclus]

Do not get a TA letter. You can use PI letters; my PI wrote me one (pretty essential letter, as I was a grad student in his lab at the time). I knew all of my authors very well (for years...probably about 4 years, on average). One actually asked to write a letter for me. He didn't seem to want to let me run off to med school without having some sort of say in the matter, haha.

 

[super-scribe]

u apply md?

Yup

 

[member000000000]

I used 3 letters as well. 2 science professors from a DIY PB. I also TA'ed for both. One letter was from an employer/mentor I knew many years. I knew my employer for years and the professors for 1.5 years.

 

[GCS-15]

My letter writers know me "well enough". We're not extremely close - but we're also not strangers. They know general things about me, my activities I'm in, the fact that I want to go to med school, etc. I think what helps is to give your letters writers a document/sit down and talk to them about the letter. Say something along the lines of "I've attached my resume and a little document of thing I got out of your class, important things I've learned, and some points for you to talk about". I think it's really hard to get to know faculty on a really personal level because no one wants to be that one guy during office hours not talking about the school work and wasting everyone else's time. I think as long as you know them on an ok level and can guide them and include important things you want on your letter - it'll be solid.

 

[GCS-15]

Also - if your TA knows you well, yea you can get a letter for him/her. What some people do is have the professor co-sign the letter so, it'll look nice having faculty sign it, but the TA will be the one talking about you.

 

[NotWayneBrady]

I don't think TA letters are going to be very valuable, it always begs the question why you couldn't get a letter from the professor instead.

I had a letter from a PI who I never had a class with and two from lecturers.

Of the lecturers, one I knew pretty extensively. I aced all of his courses and took honors sections etc. The other I asked mainly because the first lecturer delayed quite a bit in writing my letter, and I feared approaching deadlines. She did not know me very well personally, but she knew me through my PI and she and I got along quite well. She had me write my own letter, and I had my favorite TA edit it (since I had never written a letter of rec before).

 

[gwooooooooooooooooooood]

1. 2 sci, 1 non-sci lor is sufficient for all schools?
- this is usually sufficient, but check with schools or their websites. some schools state specifics for letters but are willing to be lenient if you explain yourself in a secondary essay, etc.

2. Can a GTA write a lor? does math count as sci?
- TAs should not be writing you letters. as with residency applications, letters should come from someone with a title, be it a tenured researcher, assistant professor, etc.

3. Can a PI write a lor if you never had a class with her (she's sci faculty) and have that count as the sci LOR? She'd prob write the best one, me and her are tight
- yes, but this should be an ancillary letter from someone with whom you've had significant contact and knows you and your work ethic well.

4. were any of your lors from people you only knew "kinda well"?
- yes, 1-2 of mine out of 4 were from people i knew "kinda" or "pretty" well. they were definitely not the best letters, but the best i could get. be honest when you ask, and say something along the lines of "if you'd be willing to write me a strong letter of support." most people will not agree if they're not gonna write a good letter.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

3. Can a PI write a lor if you never had a class with her (she's sci faculty) and have that count as the sci LOR? She'd prob write the best one, me and her are tight
You should definitely ask your PI! Not sure if this would count as a science LOR, though. Some schools specify that by science LOR, they mean a letter from a science professor who actually taught you. To be safe, I would still ask for 2 LORs from science profs who taught you and then use your PI as the third. I would check MSAR/school websites but 3 letters seems to be pretty standard. Some schools will accept more than 3. I submitted a committee letter from my postbacc institution and 4 additional letters (2 sci profs / 1 PI / 1 doc who I worked closely with as a scribe.)
4. were any of your lors from people you only knew "kinda well"?
Yes, I would say both of my science profs knew me only kinda well. This definitely isn't ideal but I'm a nontrad who took all of my science courses in a DIY postbacc after college. So I didn't have the advantage of getting letters from science profs who I'd known for years or did research with or anything like that. But I did take 2 courses with each prof and did well in all of them. My sense is that these letters were probably good but not great. I'm sure that my PI letter was the strongest since I've been working with her for 3+ years and we have a great relationship.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

My letter writers knew me very well. In fact, at my committee interview, the committee was like "we've legit never seen letters of rec so glorifying." I had known some of them from day 1 in undergrad, and others were in classes I took.

Just my 2 cents...but
1. Don't schmooze with your professors/faculty/letter writers
Professors have been doing this a LONG TIME. They've met countless amounts of premeds before you trying the same act, and it can make you look bad/ultimately get a weaker letter. Don't pretend you love Aerosmith cause your PI has an album and poster of them in his office. 1, its not genuine. 2, you'll be caught. If you're a die hard Aerosmith fan like he/she is, when he/she starts asking you/discussing music, concerts, venues, famous things they've done, you'll be caught. And trust me, reading the wikipedia won't make you a fan overnight. You'll be caught. Embarassed. And never want to show your head again.

2. On a lighter note above, feel free to discuss things with your letter writers when you're genuinely interested. I took an upper division class in the humanities I was actually interested in, and I honestly just went to the Professor's office hours to discuss things about the class and things I'd just found important to our class in the news or youtube. In fact, he saw a documentary I e-mailed him from youtube and let us watch it in class cause he thought it really explained some of the material we had been discussing, and we got to know each other really well because of this. Then he wrote me a letter. My point is, I didn't feign interest in global politics, it legitimately interested me, and I was open with him and we talked a lot.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Apologies, I didn't answer any of the questions you asked. My responses are in bold blue.

1. 2 sci, 1 non-sci lor is sufficient for all schools?
This depends on what your pre-med committee asks for. Its always better to have more than less. What does your pre-med committee want for you in terms of Letters of Rec?

2. Can a GTA write a lor? does math count as sci?
Math counts as a "science" in that it impacts your BCPM GPA (biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics GPA). Your GTA can write you a letter. In this case, it is usually co-signed by the professor in the course. So the grad TA that taught you and knows you well writes it up, sends it to the professor, who ultimately puts his/her name on it as well.

3. Can a PI write a lor if you never had a class with her (she's sci faculty) and have that count as the sci LOR? She'd prob write the best one, me and her are tight
PI letters of recommendation are STRONGLY recommended. And its usually the case that your mentor didn't teach you in class. It actually looks very suspicious if you don't get a letter of recommendation from your PI. For example, you work with your PI for 3 years (so 6 semesters) and the summers in between. After all this time, why didn't he/she write you a letter? You bet that's gonna come up at your pre-med committee interview and any medical school interviews. And it looks suspicious and sometimes even bad. Did you guys get into an argument? Are you the type of student who ISN'T worthy of a letter? It leads to more questions and bad assumptions, so absolutely get a letter of rec!

4. were any of your lors from people you only knew "kinda well"?
They can be. At my school, the pre-med committee ultimately picks the best letters you send in (assuming you send in extra letters). So if they want 2 science letters and you send in 4, the committee takes the 2 best ones. As a disclaimer, I implore you to go find out if this is the way your committee will be handling things as well, as each school is different. Your "kinda well" professors will, probably, give you a weaker letter of rec, so your committee will be able to easily identify which letters are stronger/weaker. And by weaker, I mean it'll be a template. "Avicenna is a good student. He/she took BIO 250: Physiology. He/she got an A. I would strongly recommend him/her to your school of medicine. He/she displayed lots of effort, would frequently visit me in my office hours to discuss class material, and ultimately has all the traits a good physician needs."

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Letters from physicians were for sure intimate since I knew them both for about 2 years while shadowing them. Letter from my PI was about 2 yrs in the making as well. Letters from profs were not as I intimate, but we hit it off quickly because of after class conversations about how to read papers correctly.