How would you run a clinic?

[Golden10]

Of course everyone does a better job if they're getting money out of it. But incentives and obligations are two different things. Selling a dental would be an incentive. Selling (I hate even using that word, because it's basically a no-brianer) heartworm pervention is an obligation.

You can't make everything an obligation. You CAN make everything an incentive, but I feel like if you made some things an incentive and others an actual part of the paying job, a) you wouldn't have to pay everyone as much for stuff they should already be doing and b) people would still be motivated to both sell the incentives but also honor their job of informing clients about the obligations. Now I know you might think that there would be no way to tell if employees are doing one or the other, but at places I've worked (who didn't provide any extra commission for this) definitely kept on me and made sure that I was at least informing clients of all of the above (heartworm, dentals, flea, types of diets for X, Y, or Z).

I don't think using employee incentives where appropriate is that bad. Should people work without having to be paid extra? Umm, duh. But that's not the world we live in. And ultimately, if you're compensating your employees extra for them to facilitate business for things that are ultimately going to benefit the animals, there's not really anything wrong with that.

I do agree with what you are saying for sure. Its a good point.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[PetPony]

It's their, not there.. :/

 

[Golden10]

Fair enough, if the level of care is the same, there's no reason to go with the pricier option.

But if there's an additional benefit that goes with the additional cost, a lot of owners are receptive to that, if it's explained properly.

Tru dat! Never underestimate what someone would pay for a service. Even if you don't think they have a lot of money they may want the best of the best for the animal. You can never estimate an animals worth to an owner. All options should be given I do agree.

But for the clinic A/B example, I feel like clinic A is just run poorly and a lot of vets do not get as much business education as they should. Especially when statically 50% of us will be business owners or partners!

 

[Golden10]

It's their, not there.. :/

Bad grammar- get over it.

 

[libster06]

My dog never had a dental (was blessed with beautiful teeth),

My dog hadn't either, 8 years ago when he was 7 years old. He was the first dog I ever had and none of my family, including me, had any idea there was even such a thing as a canine dental, because no one at that clinic (which was the only clinic we had ever been to since we got him) had ever told us about one. Then his teeth started falling out, and we started asking about it. They still never mentioned that a dental was a good idea. It wasn't until we changed veterinarians shortly after that they told us he should have been getting dentals years ago. He has barely any teeth now, so I really appreciate those guys for setting him up for that.

 

[bayarea15]

Too much to copy and paste/quote...forgive me if I forget to address anything...

My coworkers are not compensated for selling. But then again....they are...because its like if you don't do it, you will probably lose your job. So yes, compensation is a term synonomous with employment.

E&D = euthansia and disposal.

Euthanisia sale: trying to convince owner that their cat should have an iv cath, as opposed to just straight up injection.

Disposal: education on different burial options, there is a large pet cemetery within 35 min.

I know its hard for private practice owners to pay their employees. It's hard for anyone for that matter. But at my work, I am seeing that hospital needs are being put infront of non management employee needs. No raises the past 3 years, but going paperless and getting tablets in the next month, as well as remodeling the bathroom. But we still have the same x ray table from 1970 something...now digital of course.

I know its a business, but I am losing respect for the owners. I had 2 Dr appt for myself today, at a obviously human hospital. But I was treated with so much respect the whole time. And the employees seemed happy, genuinely. The MD I saw told me she loves being a doctor because she gets to make such a difference for people, and their families, and heal. She spoke with such emotion. She truly loves her job. She asked me what I wanted to do, and I said veterinarian, and she expressed so much respect for veterinarians healing animals, and their owners. Truly a great lady. Point being, I haven't exp that much respect during the 6 months of working 40 hrs a week at my job...I haven't seen it towards clients....or each other for the most part.

Anyway. I think there is a huge diff in being a licensed tech vs otj trained...but that's another can of beans.

 

[libster06]

My coworkers are not compensated for selling. But then again....they are...because its like if you don't do it, you will probably lose your job. So yes, compensation is a term synonomous with employment.

That's how I feel and how it's been for me. But in that case, compensation = whatever they're paying you regularly....

 

[Golden10]

My coworkers are not compensated for selling. But then again....they are...because its like if you don't do it, you will probably lose your job. So yes, compensation is a term synonomous with employment.

Just a thought if you were selling something out of fear for losing your job then that means that you are probably going to do the bare minimum. Minimum as in ... you should get a dental because its good for your pet... No, you don't want a dental? Ok, makes my job easier. See you whenever you decide to come back!

But if you were selling on commission, which is different then compensation, you may be a little more motivated and nice to your clients.

I feel bad for the employees at your clinic. It seems like a legitimate problem. On the bright side, because you are experiencing this, now you know how you DON'T want to run your clinic. If that is the path you so choose.

 

[libster06]

Just a thought if you were selling something out of fear for losing your job then that means that you are probably going to do the bare minimum. Minimum as in ... you should get a dental because its good for your pet... No, you don't want a dental? Ok, makes my job easier. See you whenever you decide to come back!

But if you were selling on commission, which is different then compensation, you may be a little more motivated and nice to your clients.

......little more motivated and nice? I think you mean, a little more "won't take no for an answer". Please explain how to continue pressing someone who has refused a service you've proposed.

Speaking as a client of a veterinary clinic.. or, no, I'm sorry, speaking as a human being, I don't want someone to keep on when I've told them no. This is why people who work for commission are annoying. They are working for the money, but they are also not thinking about how the person on the other end feels.

 

[Golden10]

......little more motivated and nice? I think you mean, a little more "won't take no for an answer". Please explain how to continue pressing someone who has refused a service you've proposed.

Speaking as a client of a veterinary clinic.. or, no, I'm sorry, speaking as a human being, I don't want someone to keep on when I've told them no. This is why people who work for commission are annoying. They are working for the money, but they are also not thinking about how the person on the other end feels.

I honestly do not think a tech would be like that, they are not a car salesmen

If clients were treated like this you would know. There would be complaints. The goal is to make the client happy. Techs would not push products or services in this way just because in the long run you don't want to piss off a client. Mad clients= loss of a client. And when the tech personally gains from the success of the clinic they are more invested in it to make sure it does well.

If this did happen, you would have to talk to the techs about it and correct the problem. Should not be that hard to do if you explain to them the main goal of the operation.

Golden rule: treat people the way you would want to be treated. It's really not that hard.

 

[makeitbeautiful]

I'm a bit unclear about this policy. What types of services would the tech sell? Would the veterinarian diagnose the presented patient and then the tech would enter the dialogue and try to sell the treatment to the owner? Or would the tech just sell basic services without the veterinarian's instructions like dental cleanings? What am I missing here? I just don't see how veterinary technicians are in a position to sell services that they themselves are not qualified to designate as necessary for a patient.

I shadowed at a family friend's practice last summer (she'd just bought into an established practice), and the licensed vet tech there received commission on services she provided. The doctor I shadowed was super nice and open to me about everything involving the practice even though I'd never met her before, so it was the absolute best learning experience regarding the business end of operating a clinic that I'd had =).

Anyways, the vet tech performed all of the dentals unless they required a triple-root extraction, which a vet had to be present for. She received commission on all of the dentals she performed that didn't require a vet to be present. If a vet had to be present, the vet received the commission for that procedure. Also, several appointments were made with just the vet tech for nail trims etc, and she received commission on those as well.

 

[libster06]

I honestly do not think a tech would be like that, they are not a car salesmen

If clients were treated like this you would know. There would be complaints. The goal is to make the client happy. Techs would not push products or services in this way just because in the long run you don't want to piss off a client. Mad clients= loss of a client. And when the tech personally gains from the success of the clinic they are more invested in it to make sure it does well.

If this did happen, you would have to talk to the techs about it and correct the problem. Should not be that hard to do if you explain to them the main goal of the operation.

Golden rule: treat people the way you would want to be treated. It's really not that hard.

But you still didn't explain what you were talking about earlier. If someone is a "bare minimum" tech, and yet they still propose a dental, to which the client declines, what would the difference be in a situation with a tech who was a "little more motivated"? And how would that tech handle someone who refused the services?

 

[lostbunny]

Anyways, the vet tech performed all of the dentals unless they required a triple-root extraction, which a vet had to be present for. She received commission on all of the dentals she performed that didn't require a vet to be present. If a vet had to be present, the vet received the commission for that procedure. Also, several appointments were made with just the vet tech for nail trims etc, and she received commission on those as well.

I'm pretty sure (in Ontario) techs have to have taken courses in dentals to perform them, and yeah its the same in my experience- the tech does the cleanings and only if there's something out of the routine dental, then the vet steps in.

But in the case of techs with special certifications, I'm guessing its safe to assume their pay is changed according to their qualifications? And not necessarily given commission but I mean they're a certified dental hygienist so to speak, so wouldn't they get a pay increase anyway?

 

[Golden10]

But you still didn't explain what you were talking about earlier. If someone is a "bare minimum" tech, and yet they still propose a dental, to which the client declines, what would the difference be in a situation with a tech who was a "little more motivated"? And how would that tech handle someone who refused the services?

Oh, I apologize if I didn't answer a question. The difference is the way you talk to people. For example, if a client came in and the vet said it had a dental grade of four and it might need a number 105 premolar extraction the client is going to look at you like your crazy and think its some really expensive procedure. Then when the vet leaves the unmotivated tech will just say, "well you heard the doc, your dog needs its teeth cleaned and it will be 250 dollars." Is the dog going to live without a dental. Probably. Is it less work for the tech? Yes.

The motivated tech would slowly educate the client in lay terms about what the doctor just said. Then she would bring out pictures of dirty teeth and show them what exactly a grade 4 is. She would talk about all the benefits of getting rid of that bacteria infested plaque in its mouth. Maybe throw in a story of how her dog had to get a dental and how it all went really well. If the client is super mean and absolutely does not want it then move on and just be as nice as possible.

Does it take more time to do this. You bet. You could talk for 20-30 minutes on just teeth. Will an unmotivated tech want to do this 5 times a day everyday? No. They will probably educate if the client asks but you know they are really thinking about when the client will leave so they can leave. Sad but true. If you are unhappy with your job then why would you care what happens to the business.

 

[lostbunny]

Oh, I apologize if I didn't answer a question. The difference is the way you talk to people. For example, if a client came in and the vet said it had a dental grade of four and it might need a number 105 premolar extraction the client is going to look at you like your crazy and think its some really expensive procedure. Then when the vet leaves the unmotivated tech will just say, "well you heard the doc, your dog needs its teeth cleaned and it will be 250 dollars." Is the dog going to live without a dental. Probably. Is it less work for the tech? Yes.

The motivated tech would slowly educate the client in lay terms about what the doctor just said. Then she would bring out pictures of dirty teeth and show them what exactly a grade 4 is. She would talk about all the benefits of getting rid of that bacteria infested plaque in its mouth. Maybe throw in a story of how her dog had to get a dental and how it all went really well. If the client is super mean and absolutely does not want it then move on and just be as nice as possible.

Does it take more time to do this. You bet. You could talk for 20-30 minutes on just teeth. Will an unmotivated tech want to do this 5 times a day everyday? No. They will probably educate if the client asks but you know they are really thinking about when the client will leave so they can leave. Sad but true. If you are unhappy with your job then why would you care what happens to the business.

fire the tech.

 

[Golden10]

fire the tech.

Reasonable thing to do. Except then the next tech who fills the position will probably have the same demeanor. Its probably why techs don't stick around for very long.

High turnover is more expensive then you would ever believe. It is just not good business. It would be good business to fix the problem so you don't have to start firing people.

Oh, and I also wanted to mention how extremely valuable it is to have people stick around. I would much rather work with a tech that has been at the clinic for a long time then a new one. They know what they are doing and they are key to a successful practice.

 

[bayarea15]

Yea if I ever get to own my own practice, its not going down like that.

We have people pay a deposit now for the low end of the estimate. Lol. I don't consider that a deposit, I consider it paying for services before they are completed. I also do not want to do that. Take your three grand before we have saved your dog? Not right. But, I know a lot of people have to go to collections and that's why we have this rule now. But...if we didn't have such outrageous prices, people could afford things. I dunno...

I need to get one of my cats a dental and tooth extraction. It's gonna cost me $500 with my discount. I can't afford that. And they wont let us make payments. But some of the clients are allowed payment plans...

Oh yea, forgot to mention earlier, my work totally uses a program to see profit etc. But it said they used 27% to pay employees, benefits, workers comp, and long term disability. So owners are prolly gonna drop long term disability. Then they asked us what else we could do to cut costs. Someone suggested 50% off nail trims. (Ours are $27) so yea, groupon may not be far off. Owner A suggested those frequent client cards, like 5 nail trims get one free.

 

[bayarea15]

And the 27% included "medical supplies" not sure what all was included.

Vets pay benefits etc was 38%, not including the owners, in case anyone wondered. But they work for it, believe me.

 

[squeegee]

Euthanisia sale: trying to convince owner that their cat should have an iv cath, as opposed to just straight up injection.

i don't really understand why this has to be a part of your "sale"....why can't it just be incorporated in the price you charge for euthanasia and done automatically as part of the service? especially when it comes to something like making sure you have patent IV access for a smooth euthanasia vs a potential prolonged process for the animal (and client) because the butterfly slipped and the vein blew

 

[bunnity]

There is so much going on in this thread...
If one clinic is really charging half the price of another clinic, I doubt they are doing things exactly the same way. I've worked at both extremes of the $50 spay and the $500 spay. Yes, both animals got spayed, but the more expensive one had IV catheter, PCV/TS, pre op ECG, a thorough PE prior to anesthesia, intubation, dedicated certified vet tech monitoring anesthesia, ECG monitoring, pulse ox monitoring, blood pressures, full sterile gown / cap / mask / gloves, single-use of surgery instruments (no cold sterilizer in between), different anesthetics drugs, and more pain meds. The cheaper place (through a shelter) basically just had a quick listen to the heart, a shot of TTD, no one to monitor during surgery besides the vet, volunteers like me doing the prep and post op, no gowns, caps, or masks, and cold-sterilized instruments (we used the autoclave at the end of the day).
There's a reason one cost more than the other! I think there is a place for different types of medicine depending on what your clients can afford (and fully intend to work in a shelter myself) but I think it is foolish to assume that the same thing is happening both places.
Also, a spay may be routine in the sense that it happens to most animals, but you are opening the abdomen and removing an organ - it should be taken seriously and given the same kind of precautions as any other elective procedure.
I'm torn on the commission-tech thing. On the one hand I think it's good for people to have that personal investment in a business. On the other hand, I think the danger with any commission (vet or tech) is the possible clouding of your judgement as far as what this pet needs. I think it's even harder with techs because as I said earlier in the thread you don't always have the full picture of what is going on medically. If it's your routine to push push push a certain procedure but it ends up not being right or safe for that pet, it could get really weird if the tech has spent 10 minutes convincing the client to get a dental and then it turns out that the animal has a history of CHF and liver disease and the vet doesn't think it's a good idea to anesthetize. I don't know if there's a good clear answer on that one.

 

[Golden10]

There is so much going on in this thread...
If one clinic is really charging half the price of another clinic, I doubt they are doing things exactly the same way..

They do. Hard to believe I know. And the clinics are only 5 minutes away from each other!!

 

[squeegee]

And as for the real world situation of clinic A and B.... they do dentals the same way. I have no idea why there prices are so high. They don't have better equipment then us in terms of dentals, but they have nicer/newer equipment in other sectors of there vet hospital. Like there 200,000 x ray machine.

when a clinic sets prices for its services it's incorporating more than just the cost of that service. a clinic needs to pay the vets, the techs, the receptionists, electric/water bills, rent, owes money on equipment, etc etc. so it's hard to say you don't know why their prices are high without knowing the costs of their overhead. perhaps clinic A costs a lot more to run in the day-to-day operations than B and it needs to compensate for that somehow. perhaps it just doesn't do a lot of dentals because the time is instead spent on other procedures like TPLOs or cruciate repairs. perhaps the dental equipment itself is the same but the procedure is done differently- different drugs used? pre-op meds, catheter placement, prophylactic antibiotics, post-op meds, dental x-rays? one tech doing the procedure and monitoring, vs. two techs (one procedure, one monitoring), vs. the actual DVM doing it (rare)? it would be very hard to judge/compare costs between clinics without knowing lots of additional info

 

[Golden10]

when a clinic sets prices for its services it's incorporating more than just the cost of that service. a clinic needs to pay the vets, the techs, the receptionists, electric/water bills, rent, owes money on equipment, etc etc. so it's hard to say you don't know why their prices are high without knowing the costs of their overhead. perhaps clinic A costs a lot more to run in the day-to-day operations than B and it needs to compensate for that somehow. perhaps it just doesn't do a lot of dentals because the time is instead spent on other procedures like TPLOs or cruciate repairs. perhaps the dental equipment itself is the same but the procedure is done differently- different drugs used? pre-op meds, catheter placement, prophylactic antibiotics, post-op meds, dental x-rays? one tech doing the procedure and monitoring, vs. two techs (one procedure, one monitoring), vs. the actual DVM doing it (rare)? it would be very hard to judge/compare costs between clinics without knowing lots of additional info

I do know the owner personally and I basically grew up running around there clinic with my best friend. I am certain that they are not that much different. They spent a ton on making the building really nice and bought the best/ greatest x ray machine in the world...

In all reality there costs are probably much higher because of all the stuff they buy. And there business is much lower. It's just poor business practices all around that are leading them into disaster. Especially since the economy crashed.

Another example, I had a teacher once who was a really ****ty vet (and a ****ty teacher) she charged crazy prices too and, get this, she didn't have an autoclave... she wrapped her surgical instruments then boiled them... she is currently living in the basement of her practice.

The clinic I worked at when I was at school was a booming practice. We were always 1/4-1/2 cheaper then her. I know this because we got most of her clients and the number one thing they complained about was price.

Expensive clinics does not always mean the best medicine.

 

[squeegee]

I do know the owner personally and I basically grew up running around there clinic with my best friend. I am certain that they are not that much different. They spent a ton on making the building really nice and bought the best/ greatest x ray machine in the world...

fair enough, but again there's probably more to it than meets the eye. without knowing how much he pays every single employee in salary, or every single monthly bill he pays to his vendors, you can't say that the costs are not justified because you don't know what debts they're dealing with. medicine needs diagnostic tools such as xray machines, and tools cost money....why do you think that having these items are a bad thing necessarily? what kind of x-ray machine does practice B have?

i'm not trying to say that expensive means better medicine, just as i'm sure you would say cheap clinics don't mean lesser medicine. i just don't understand where you are drawing your comparisons between A and B unless you are knowledgeable about details involving each practices' finances. are you saying A is not as good as B strictly because they cost more and don't do as many dentals? why do you think they have "poor business practices all around leading them into disaster"?

 

[Golden10]

fair enough, but again there's probably more to it than meets the eye. without knowing how much he pays every single employee in salary, or every single monthly bill he pays to his vendors, you can't say that the costs are not justified because you don't know what debts they're dealing with. medicine needs diagnostic tools such as xray machines, and tools cost money....why do you think that having these items are a bad thing necessarily? what kind of x-ray machine does practice B have?

i'm not trying to say that expensive means better medicine, just as i'm sure you would say cheap clinics don't mean lesser medicine. i just don't understand where you are drawing your comparisons between A and B unless you are knowledgeable about details involving each practices' finances. are you saying A is not as good as B strictly because they cost more and don't do as many dentals? why do you think they have "poor business practices all around leading them into disaster"?

I can almost guarantee there costs are higher. But here is the real question with the x ray machine. Does your vet clinic need the best, latest, greatest digital x ray machine that just came out.... I would say no. If you really need a new x ray machine look into used ones from hospitals. Or buy one that is maybe not the newest model and tens of thousands of dollars cheaper. Practice B has an older version of a digital X ray. Works great.

If you are asking me my opinion about which clinic is better I would say B. We practice more medicine plain and simple. My opinion on why I think they have poor business practices stem from several things.
* High turn over
* unhappy staff
* paying way more then they need to on equipment
* providing the same services as next door but charging twice as much

Plain and simple, I love the vet there, he is a nice person... but he has no idea how to run a business.

 

[August West]

nevermind...

 

[lostbunny]

I can almost guarantee there costs are higher. But here is the real question with the x ray machine. Does your vet clinic need the best, latest, greatest digital x ray machine that just came out.... I would say no. If you really need a new x ray machine look into used ones from hospitals. Or buy one that is maybe not the newest model and tens of thousands of dollars cheaper. Practice B has an older version of a digital X ray. Works great.

If you are asking me my opinion about which clinic is better I would say B. We practice more medicine plain and simple. My opinion on why I think they have poor business practices stem from several things.
* High turn over
* unhappy staff
* paying way more then they need to on equipment
* providing the same services as next door but charging twice as much

Plain and simple, I love the vet there, he is a nice person... but he has no idea how to run a business.

Considering he does have a practice and clients, I'd think its safe to at least say he is doing *something* right.

Maybe you should apply to be his office manager because you seem to know so much about running a vet clinic, I'm sure he'd be more then happy to hire you. But then of course you'd have to quit your current job at Clinic B.

 

[August West]

Acutally, I'm not a student- I've already graduated.

I can't speak from experience of being a tech, but as a receptionist part of our protocol was to explain heartworm treatment, the benefits etc. Also discussing vaccines (puppies, kittens, optional vx, etc). I did this day in and day out, but I still really enjoyed educating others, and I wasn't compensated for any of it.

As a vet assistant, part of my job was answering the emergency phone calls, and those are great examples of people who won't listen. But I still loved answering the phone and discussing emergency situations. Bottom line, I guess I just really like helping and educating people. My only compensation (besides my actual pay) was when people actually did come in when I recommended they do, or one example when I convinced a lady to get blood work done before a spay and it turned out her dog had some liver condition.

Burn out is common in *any* profession.

And no, I wouldn't know if my techs are giving '5 star talks' in the end; everyone has bad days or may be still hung over from the night before, but commission doesn't necessarily override this all of the time.

You mean you weren't given a nickel for every phone you answered? I think you should have a quick client survey at the end of each call. Just to rate the receptionist from 1-5. One, they get a penny. And five, they get the whole nickel. Would make for much better customer service. When I'm da boss...

 

[Golden10]

Considering he does have a practice and clients, I'd think its safe to at least say he is doing *something* right.

Maybe you should apply to be his office manager because you seem to know so much about running a vet clinic, I'm sure he'd be more then happy to hire you. But then of course you'd have to quit your current job at Clinic B.

He is a good vet. But given there family situation IDK if he would be doing as well as he would have hoped.

My friend wants absolutely nothing to do with the clinic. Shes more into art.

Honestly you don't have to be so hostile

I just wanted people opinions on different business practices. I respect what you have to say but please don't act like there is only one way to do things. Keep an open mind and it will get you far.

 

[Dsmoody23]

You mean you weren't given a nickel for every phone you answered? I think you should have a quick client survey at the end of each call. Just to rate the receptionist from 1-5. One, they get a penny. And five, they get the whole nickel. Would make for much better customer service. When I'm da boss...

 

[August West]

But if you were selling on commission, which is different then compensation, you may be a little more motivated and nice to your clients.

And what about the responsibilities for which they are not commissioned on? Will they become less motivated to complete such tasks? Will you eventually have to offer a commission for each fecal they set up? Each kennel they clean diarrhea from? Will they stop fraternizing with clients completely as it cuts into their "sell" time? I would draw the compensation line at bonuses given at year end for high-valued employees, and it would definitely be based upon other metrics than how many nail trims they sold.

 

[August West]

......little more motivated and nice? I think you mean, a little more "won't take no for an answer". Please explain how to continue pressing someone who has refused a service you've proposed.

Speaking as a client of a veterinary clinic.. or, no, I'm sorry, speaking as a human being, I don't want someone to keep on when I've told them no. This is why people who work for commission are annoying. They are working for the money, but they are also not thinking about how the person on the other end feels.

Bingo!! Every commission-based employee that I ever encounter, be it a new car salesman or the girl at the clothing store that wants to know if I still am doing okay for the third time as browse through a jeans rack, are annoying. Why would I want to introduce such a presence to my clinic's environment? There are much better ways to reward hard work, in my opinion.

 

[Golden10]

And what about the responsibilities for which they are not commissioned on? Will they become less motivated to complete such tasks? Will you eventually have to offer a commission for each fecal they set up? Each kennel they clean diarrhea from? Will they stop fraternizing with clients completely as it cuts into their "sell" time? I would draw the compensation line at bonuses given at year end for high-valued employees, and it would definitely be based upon other metrics than how many nail trims they sold.

Higher bonuses are also a good thing. I do think that somehow techs need to be treated better overall. That being said, there may be many ways to do this and giving them extra bonuses may be one way.

But just a thought with commission, I do not think they would do an awful job at other tasks. If they are invested in making the clinic better they will certainly try harder at every aspect of the job because it will overall be good for the clinic, and therefore good for them personally.

But giving bigger bonuses to good employees is kind of the same idea too. The better they do the more money they will get at the end.

 

[August West]

Yea if I ever get to own my own practice, its not going down like that.

We have people pay a deposit now for the low end of the estimate. Lol. I don't consider that a deposit, I consider it paying for services before they are completed. I also do not want to do that. Take your three grand before we have saved your dog? Not right. But, I know a lot of people have to go to collections and that's why we have this rule now. But...if we didn't have such outrageous prices, people could afford things. I dunno...

I need to get one of my cats a dental and tooth extraction. It's gonna cost me $500 with my discount. I can't afford that. And they wont let us make payments. But some of the clients are allowed payment plans...

Oh yea, forgot to mention earlier, my work totally uses a program to see profit etc. But it said they used 27% to pay employees, benefits, workers comp, and long term disability. So owners are prolly gonna drop long term disability. Then they asked us what else we could do to cut costs. Someone suggested 50% off nail trims. (Ours are $27) so yea, groupon may not be far off. Owner A suggested those frequent client cards, like 5 nail trims get one free.

Holy crap!! People really pay $27 for nail trims. We've always done them for free as added value for clients. Interesting...

 

[August West]

Do you get commissions on each witty response?

 

[August West]

Higher bonuses are also a good thing. I do think that somehow techs need to be treated better overall. That being said, there may be many ways to do this and giving them extra bonuses may be one way.

But just a thought with commission, I do not think they would do an awful job at other tasks. If they are invested in making the clinic better they will certainly try harder at every aspect of the job because it will overall be good for the clinic, and therefore good for them personally.

But giving bigger bonuses to good employees is kind of the same idea too. The better they do the more money they will get at the end.

If they are truly invested in making the clinic better and will work hard at every aspect of the job then commission incentives are an unnecessary risk. But wasn't it you that claimed such motivated techs are nearly impossible to find?

 

[Golden10]

If they are truly invested in making the clinic better and will work hard at every aspect of the job then commission incentives are an unnecessary risk. But wasn't it you that claimed such motivated techs are nearly impossible to find?

Don't think so. I may have said hard to find. There are techs that do it for the pure joy of teaching about animals and are doing fine with 20K a year....

And there are some techs who are just treated well at there clinics with better pay like at DSmoodys clinic. But you wont find techs like these on the job market. They usually stay right where there at.

And what you are suggesting is that we ultimately increase pay which is just one way to make the business success a more personal matter for the techs. I agree with what you are saying. But commission is done in the veterinary world. I just really don't see how there is more risk to it then paying extra bonus.

So if you have a tech that grosses 150,000 dollars a year in sales would you give that person a bigger bonus then someone who grossed 50,000?

Can you really give them all the same bonus? If the clinic doesn't do well that year they will not blame themselves for the low bonus. They will blame each other.

If you give them bonus based on how well they did, wouldn't that sort of be like commission in a way? And if they did poorly the only person they could blame is themselves.

 

[August West]

Don't think so. I may have said hard to find. There are techs that do it for the pure joy of teaching about animals and are doing fine with 20K a year....

And there are some techs who are just treated well at there clinics with better pay like at DSmoodys clinic. But you wont find techs like these on the job market. They usually stay right where there at.

And what you are suggesting is that we ultimately increase pay which is just one way to make the business success a more personal matter for the techs. I agree with what you are saying. But commission is done in the veterinary world. I just really don't see how there is more risk to it then paying extra bonus.

So if you have a tech that grosses 150,000 dollars a year in sales would you give that person a bigger bonus then someone who grossed 50,000?

Can you really give them all the same bonus? If the clinic doesn't do well that year they will not blame themselves for the low bonus. They will blame each other.

If you give them bonus based on how well they did, wouldn't that sort of be like commission in a way? And if they did poorly the only person they could blame is themselves.

The risk comes from incentivizing specific individual tasks and services as the employees could focus more on these responsibilities and less on the unincentivized parts of the job. The risk is also creating an environment in which employees will be rewarded for pushing services and products on clients just to reap the commission, which would compromise the experience I would like to provide for customers at my clinic. By making the only incentive an end-of-the-year bonus, of which the amount is left to my discretion, I am rewarding overall performance and do not have to worry about the aforementioned risks that come with offering commissions.

 

[libster06]

Oh, I apologize if I didn't answer a question. The difference is the way you talk to people. For example, if a client came in and the vet said it had a dental grade of four and it might need a number 105 premolar extraction the client is going to look at you like your crazy and think its some really expensive procedure. Then when the vet leaves the unmotivated tech will just say, "well you heard the doc, your dog needs its teeth cleaned and it will be 250 dollars." Is the dog going to live without a dental. Probably. Is it less work for the tech? Yes.

The motivated tech would slowly educate the client in lay terms about what the doctor just said. Then she would bring out pictures of dirty teeth and show them what exactly a grade 4 is. She would talk about all the benefits of getting rid of that bacteria infested plaque in its mouth. Maybe throw in a story of how her dog had to get a dental and how it all went really well. If the client is super mean and absolutely does not want it then move on and just be as nice as possible.

I am in agreement that you should not just ask "Do you want a dental?" and move on with said answer. But 9 times out of 10, even with an "unmotivated tech" hat on, you're going to encounter questions about whatever it is you're selling, thus requiring you to expound on what you're asking about.

While I agree that instead of asking a vague, short-response question like that, that as a tech you should give more info (why it's important, what, if anything, about the animal warrants said procedure, costs, known benefits, and also possiblilities of consquences of not doing X procedure), I have to say that everything you described above is a lot more in depth than I feel is necessary. The way you're describing the approach to an incentive-driven employee only adds to my point of the "salesman" aspect. Yes, people deserve to, and usually want to, be informed. But given the standard 15-20 minute time slot allotted for an appointment, it's neither fiscally responsible nor beneficial to the owner to spend 20-30 minutes talking about teeth, or producing pictures of horrible teeth (that's what pictures on walls and plastic large vet supplier corporation-provided gingivitis teeth models are for) for them to weigh the options. In fact, that would be seen by many clients as very pushy and off-putting, as I mentioned earlier. Tell them why they need it, tell them your own personal experience, and then move on.

Explaining to an owner a procedure and why it is beneficial to the patient and possible repercussions of not doing it isn't something that only compensated and "motivated and nice" techs do. That is the job of a technician. Those that don't, usually don't stay around long. Those that do, may not always want to do it, but that is their job. Getting paid extra to do that would give them all the more reason to keep it up and make them feel like their knowledge and educating matters, but it's only a bonus for something they would otherwise be doing for free.

 

[lostbunny]

He is a good vet. But given there family situation IDK if he would be doing as well as he would have hoped.

My friend wants absolutely nothing to do with the clinic. Shes more into art.

Honestly you don't have to be so hostile

I just wanted people opinions on different business practices. I respect what you have to say but please don't act like there is only one way to do things. Keep an open mind and it will get you far.

I just find some of the reasoning behind your responses are a bit black and white, cut and dry and you make it out like there are just such simple solutions to these issues. Didn't mean to be hostile, just annoyed.

 

[lostbunny]

You mean you weren't given a nickel for every phone you answered? I think you should have a quick client survey at the end of each call. Just to rate the receptionist from 1-5. One, they get a penny. And five, they get the whole nickel. Would make for much better customer service. When I'm da boss...

what is this, what are you implying?

 

[August West]

what is this, what are you implying?

I was poking fun at the idea of incentivizing more and more tasks at a veterinary clinic. Essentially throwing around miniscule amounts of money to ensure that employees are doing the job in which they were hired to do anyway. I used to be a graphic designer. I worked for a few large corporations designing marketing materials and print advertising campaigns. The job I was doing helped generate hundreds of thousands in revenue. Yet I never received any commission for the work I was doing. I still took great pride in my job and displayed strong work ethic. If the lives and well-being of animals were involved with the tasks I was undertaking, I imagine I would have worked even harder and more passionately. Getting 25 cents for convincing a client to get their poodle's nails trimmed or a buck to slang some topical flea control is pretty laughable to me. Now get back to work and get off of your IPhone!!

 

[libster06]

I was poking fun at the idea of incentivizing more and more tasks at a veterinary clinic. Essentially throwing around miniscule amounts of money to ensure that employees are doing the job in which they were hired to do anyway. I used to be a graphic designer. I worked for a few large corporations designing marketing materials and print advertising campaigns. The job I was doing helped generate hundreds of thousands in revenue. Yet I never received any commission for the work I was doing. I still took great pride in my job and displayed strong work ethic. If the lives and well-being of animals were involved with the tasks I was undertaking, I imagine I would have worked even harder and more passionately.

I will just say that I feel the same way in regards to tipping Sonic drive-in employees. BEFORE ANYONE GOES ROGUE ON ME, my best friend was the manager there. She was paid relatively $2 more than my $8.50/hr wage and her employees were paid +/- within $0.50 wage as I was working as a kennel assistant for a corporate vet. Yet, one day my employer at the clinic said he didn't understand "our generation's" issue with not tipping Sonic employees (there was one located right next door to the clinic)....... and I just simply told him that they aren't exactly waitresses making pennies an hour, and that they make the same money that I do, yet no one tipped me for picking up poop or helping them with heavy food bags to their car, and I certainly didn't expect it because it was part of my job and why I was hired. That's kind of how I feel about the whole compensation thing.

Not in any way disrespecting or insulting my wages, because I was perfectly happy with the amount I was getting paid, and I did my job regardless, because it was my job. I didn't slack off because I wasn't getting paid extra to do things. I just tried put in perspective that the employees "waitressing" or bringing you food to your car is part of the business model of the company and is also the reason they are paid higher wages than waiters and waitresses, who aren't guaranteed compensation for their services outside of tips.

 

[bayarea15]

If I went back to my old waitress job I had 8 years ago, I would make more than I do now. By 50%.

Yes the nail trims are $26.50, I said $27 cause its the same by the time you're done adding up everything that got added on.

We offer iv cath and non iv euthanasia, its a significant diff in price. Sometimes the owners don't want to be present, so animal goes in the back with the Dr and tech, Dr draws up syringe, and so on.

I think receptionists get a lot of crap in general. They deal with the client first, get yelled at about the bill, and are the last to see the client leave after animal has been put down. It's rough.

I dunno. Human medicine has the pharm industry crap. I guess we are all selling? Who knows

 

[Golden10]

I just find some of the reasoning behind your responses are a bit black and white, cut and dry and you make it out like there are just such simple solutions to these issues. Didn't mean to be hostile, just annoyed.

Well on an Internet forum I feel like you have to make thing black and white and ask general questions. Grey areas are tricky to get into because everyone lives in a different area and has different clientele needs. I live in a city in which we get clients who use there dogs for fighting out there gangster issues, college students who thought puppies would be cute, and people who are well off finically but refuse to pay for whatever reason. Money is probably the number one issue where I live. Where you live, which I am guessing is Australia, your clients may overall have different wants and needs. Which is why the grey areas you want me to fill in aren't really possible. If you want to talk about a specific grey area then just say so.

 

[Tco87]

Just a thought if you were selling something out of fear for losing your job then that means that you are probably going to do the bare minimum. Minimum as in ... you should get a dental because its good for your pet... No, you don't want a dental? Ok, makes my job easier. See you whenever you decide to come back!

But if you were selling on commission, which is different then compensation, you may be a little more motivated and nice to your clients.

I feel bad for the employees at your clinic. It seems like a legitimate problem. On the bright side, because you are experiencing this, now you know how you DON'T want to run your clinic. If that is the path you so choose.

I am genuinely sorry for whatever experiences you have had that make you believe that most techs aren't inherently motivated to promote what is best for the animals. I don't know a single person who works as a veterinary technician or assistant for the money, they do it because they want to help animals and improve their quality of life. At the private practice I worked at, I reenforced the recommendations our veterinarians made because I believed that it was in the animal's best interest. Everyone that I worked with had that attitude. If someone didn't want their cat to have a dental when his teeth were rotting out of his mouth, I would be upset, because I knew the animal was in pain and wasn't getting treatment it needed. I wouldn't just shrug my shoulders and say, "Well, that's less work for me!"

And I agree with all the previous statements about commission leading to techs being excessively pushy with some services. I don't understand your logic in saying that techs need the commission to be motivated to "sell" things that are genuinely in the animal's best interest (dentals, flea treatment, etc.) but that they won't be too pushy with it and they won't neglect other duties in favor of doing things that they get commission for. I could actually see that leading to a lot of fighting amongst staff. Where's my motivation to volunteer to be the one cleaning cages or monitoring non-commissioned surgery when I could be earning extra convincing clients to get flea treatment and dentals?

 

[StartingoverVet]

And I agree with all the previous statements about commission leading to techs being excessively pushy with some services. I don't understand your logic in saying that techs need the commission to be motivated to "sell" things that are genuinely in the animal's best interest (dentals, flea treatment, etc.) but that they won't be too pushy with it and they won't neglect other duties in favor of doing things that they get commission for. I could actually see that leading to a lot of fighting amongst staff. Where's my motivation to volunteer to be the one cleaning cages or monitoring non-commissioned surgery when I could be earning extra convincing clients to get flea treatment and dentals?

I think you need to study economics a little more.

Money is a motivator to do things that people don't normally do, and lots of people feel uncomfortable "pushing" services, even if they are in the best interests of the animal. Money is the push to do it even if you are shy, or weird about money etc.

As far as fighting, that is what management is for, to manage those feelings. More revenue is a winner for the clinic as a whole, management needs to make sure that everyone feels a rewarded in some way as part of the team, even if they aren't the ones getting the commission.

[/end business lecture]

 

[sumstorm]

As techs, we 'sell' preventatives because they're in the best interest of the patient, and the revenue they generate keeps the practice rolling. We also 'push' core and optional vaccines. There's nothing insidious about adding a little casual pressure to ensure a client makes a positive decision about care. Commissions help keep that basic level of preventive care emphasized for support staff, who are often the point person in regards to client communication.

Personally, I would be concerned that at some point I am asking my tech to practice vet med under my licence and liability. What if a tech or receptionist convinced a client, upon checkout, to buy heartguard for their pet instead of using the script I just gave them, not realizing that the Collie mix will be in danger? It won't be my receptionist or tech in front of the board or in the court.

 

[PppermintTwist]

I have been a long time lurker to this site but I finally made an account and I have a question I have been thinking about for months!!

I applied this cycle and I am waiting on an acceptance letter. I have a pretty good shot at getting in which made me think about my future as a veterinarian. Since around half of veterinarians own there own practice I decided to post here for some good advice, since a lot of you may be interested in running a business.

So I have a few questions. I have worked at a few different vet clinics doing kennel work, and the main problem I see is not enough job satisfactions especially with the techs. They are all living pay check to pay check and barley scrapping by. Needless to say, being educated people, they leave the profession for a higher paying job. So one of my questions is why don't vets let techs work off commission? The more that the sell the more money they make- an incentive that would allow them to make more money. How much should we be paying our vet techs because I don't feel like 14$ an hour is enough!! Should your head vet tech make more? How much more? Half of what your vets make? I think that they are extremely under appreciated since they are so essential to running a practice. The happier the techs are, and staff overall for that matter, the better your business will run. And in turn the more money you will make. I think that having good techs come and go is extremely bad for business. You have to constantly be re-training and no one has stuck it out long enough to actually be an "expert" for that clinic.

It does not make sense to me why a x ray tech, for example, starts at 50,000 a year and has the ability to move up into higher positions and our vet techs start at 23-25K. Same amount of schooling. Much different pay. I understand that clinics don't make a ton of money, which is why working on commission would be the better option for our vet techs. Thoughts?

My second question. If you lower your prices of routine visits and procedures would this ultimately increase your revenue since you will be probably getting more clients? I am not saying lower the quality of medicine, just have prices set lower then the competition around you. I got this idea when my mom called 14 vet clinics to find the cheapest one for just annual shots. The vet was great and my dog got her shots. That vet got our business, not because he is great, but because he was the cheapest. And the reason he keeps our business is because he practices good medicine.

It is my dream to own my own small animal vet clinic one day and I really enjoy the business side of the profession. When I am working in kennels I watch how the clinic is run and think about all the ways we can make it better. Of course, I don't express my opinion to the vet, after all I am just a kennel worker, and probably more under appreciated then the techs!

I dont think that techs could work on a commission. But I like that you want to increase technician satisfaction! I think incentives would work well. If a technician ( or any employee ) comes up with an idea that they think will save the business money ( while still providing top quality care ) and you try it and it does, give them a reward for it! Christmas bonuses are nice too, and annual raises ( based on improved performance or continued excellent performance of a long time tech ) Also if you are giving an employee like a head tech more responsibility than the pay should reflect that.

Good Luck!

 

[PppermintTwist]

Personally, I would be concerned that at some point I am asking my tech to practice vet med under my licence and liability. What if a tech or receptionist convinced a client, upon checkout, to buy heartguard for their pet instead of using the script I just gave them, not realizing that the Collie mix will be in danger? It won't be my receptionist or tech in front of the board or in the court.

I think many things could prevent things like this from happening. Communication; why would your tech try to convince someone to buy a different but similar project after the veterinarian they work for just filled a Rx?
Education; if you have licenesed technicians they know they cannot prescribe, or diagnose legally ( etc ) and wouldnt do that. They would also know that collies are more sensitive to ivermectin...
If you dont have a licensed technician, than you should educate them your self and make their duties and what they are allowed to do clear and again communicate with eachother.