Huge rant about clerkship grades

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man, in my school they didn't pay attention to the resident's eval of the student. All the weight was in the attending's eval. I've gotten 5/5 from multiple residents on rotations before, but gotten screwed by the attending's average eval. Makes sense, because the attending obviously spend more time with you than the resident, right??

But, now on the other side of things, I've yet to be overwhelmingly impressed with any of the students I've worked with as a resident. I don't know how anyone evaluates anyone in this system, except upon superficialities.

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So, now that people have crossed the line and moved up the proverbial food chain that is called medicine, what would the residents consider an impressive medical student and what annoys the hell out of them?

I mean, I had a fellow classmate on my rotation that is gunnerish and constantly asks questions....while I'm more the laid back, if you don't ask I won't talk type, and I feel as if being compared against this I may be perceived as uninterested/dumb. However, don't residents see this gunnerish and over-aggressive behavior for what it is?!!! :eek: I really don't want to stoop down to that level... yet I feel that my grade my suffer badly for this
 
for the most part residents rather not be around loud annoying students who ask a million questions and quiz them, while attendings are the opposite, they give better grades to blabbermouths. So you have to be selective when you open your mouth depending on the target.
 
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Show me one successful person who got where they are exclusively on their objectively evaluated merits. I think this little vignette from Pulp Fiction about sums it up:

Jules: ...But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
Vincent : Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
Jules : Well we'd have to be talkin' about one charmin' motherf---in' pig. I mean he'd have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'?



After going through 3rd year I realized that every specialty has its own personality - you will either fit in with the particular specialty or you don't. If you don't you are LUCKY to get a good evaluation and that's it. If you fit in you will get a good grade and it will seem easy. It will only frustrate you to dwell on all the unfair bulls--t that happens on the floors. Once you find out what you want to do in the future all the little things that really got under your skin during 3rd year will fade completely from your memory. This post isn't to say that you shouldn't accept legitimate criticism from residents and attendings who are grading you.

To the OP: it sounds like there are 3 things to learn from your experience: 1) there is a certain etiquette on the floors - one of the most important rules is to never, ever leave before the attending does. Especially on a Saturday. 2) For the most part, you won't be noticed until you do something wrong. 3) Sh-t rolls downhill so don't be surprised if someone takes out their own frustrations on you. However, there is hope! We all expect to have unblemished med school careers, but realistically, no one is perfect, and there will be mistakes along the way. The thing is to learn from them.
 
MD'05 said:
I have to agree. What would benefit medical students most is 1 year of acting classes prior to starting medical school. You must look and act the role of a doctor 24x7 to honor a rotation. Bottom line.
i think there's been a recent article that came to a very similar conclusion, except it dealt with doctors, not just medical students.
 
scootad. said:
for the most part residents rather not be around loud annoying students who ask a million questions and quiz them, while attendings are the opposite, they give better grades to blabbermouths. So you have to be selective when you open your mouth depending on the target.
so true
 
I really don't think that 3rd yr is anything like the "real world" I worked all throughout college and it was nothing like this. In a real job I was constantly rewarded/promoted for my strong work ethic, never for sucking up! On the wards it all depends on who is on your team and what your attendings/residents are looking for. Some like the suck-ups and they consume their attention and they don't even know about the other students at all. They wouldn't even know if the other students are even there because the suck-ups are attached to them at all times. Some actually hate the suck -up and reward the people who do the work.

Besides being a juggling act with pleasing your attendings you also have to worry about sabotage from your team. I have seen and heard about all types of this favorite gunner activity this year. From people knowing your pt is delivering and running in to catch the baby instead of letting you know, sitting in front of the exam room to take every new pt that comes in, looking up journal articles only on your pts and not their own, spreading the incorrect answers to everyone so they will do better on the shelf test, the list goes on and on!

I also feel that the suck-ups act the way the do because they have to compensate for their lack of knowledge. They are the ones who also seem to claim that others lack "good people skills" to defend their slimy behavior.
 
scootad. said:
for the most part residents rather not be around loud annoying students who ask a million questions and quiz them, while attendings are the opposite, they give better grades to blabbermouths. So you have to be selective when you open your mouth depending on the target.
best I've seen RE: M-3 year. Nice work, scooty.
 
Personality is everything! You have to be friendly, and likeable. But most of all you have to be normal. A lot of young naive med students don't quite understand what "being normal" means. Just be "one of the guys". Someone they'd want to hang out with.

Personality matters even more while on residency interviews and audition rotations. You are all smart, the difference will be in personality. You may think you can "act" or "pretend" to have a good personality, but doctors and residents are very good at reading people and seeing thru the crap.

Just be normal!
 
Since this thread is still active, I thought I would reply, although by now I am sure that Stormjen has essentially moved on to her MS-4 year. But, there are lessons here for all, and I think it behooves all of us to at least take a minute to consider the lessons learned. No, I am not criticizing Stormjen or others from my high horse. I may have very well done the same (or worse) in the same situation. But, back to our lessons:

1.) Pediatrics. First, you really cannot tell for sure who will be evaluating you. Even if you know the attending who is writing the eval, that person may very well take informal input from other attendings, residents, interns, nurses and ancillary staff (yes, this does happen). Similarly, even if you believe a certain attending is expected to write an eval, there are situations where that attending may not. Perhaps he or she forgot, got busy, or took a position at another hospital to be closer to his wife's family, and did not have time to complete the eval. The lesson is that you really do need to try to impress everyone, even if that is impossible.

2.) Pediatrics again. In Stormjen's example, all is not lost. She could always ask for the attending to write a recommendation for her residency applications.

3.) Surgery. First lesson here is that when asked by attending to do something, such as round, you must do it. If you cannot for some reason, you need to inform the attending. Informing the resident is not a substitute. Yes, it was inconvenient to wait around on your supposed day off. But remember that the attending probably had "things to do" as well; he could very well have been missing his daughter's little league game.

4.) If you do make a mistake (such as missing rounds), and are confronted about it, don't mumble excuses, such as "the resident said it was OK." A quick "Sorry about that. Can I explain the situation later?" would have been a better response.

5.) Attendings get very busy, and some are in very stressful situations. Furthermore, just about any attending can probably come up with a legitimate gripe about med students with whom they have worked in the past. As a result, some attendings give students no benefit of the doubt whatsoever. It is clear that Stormjen p*$$ed the attending, which was her fault. No, that does not give the attending the right to give her an F, but he probably knew it was going to get reversed anyway. But, still, in this case, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Better to follow the earlier lessons and not be in this situation to begin with.

6.) OB/GYN: Getting a pass is not the end of the world. If you did as well as you thought, and you feel you could get a good recommendation from the staff, and are still interested in OB, go for it. Lot's of practicing OB's got P's (or equivalent) in their OB rotation. To strengthen your resume, you could always do an MS4 elective or an away rotation in OB.

7.) Why a P instead of HP (or equivalent)? Well, in many cases it is not at all related to anything the student did right or wrong. Some course directors are very stingy in handing out the high grades. The misinformed resident that thought you missed rounds may not have had any impact on your grade. Even if it did, it is still best just to move on with the knowledge that you are one step closer to having MD after your name.

8.) Despite some cynical comments, very few are good enough at kissing up to get by on that alone. The best brownnosers can kiss backsides without the kissee even noticing. But, as they say, you cannot fool all the people all the time. For most of the rest of us, blatant attempts at kissing up will ended being called out for what they are, and will end up costing you points in the long run. Yes, there are stories about how the brownest nose with the biggest cleavage got the best grade in a particular rotation. Just remember that that person probably had difficulty in a rotation where the staff sees through the BS.

If you want to be department director at a major university medical center, you will have to learn the fine art of schmoozing (the politically correct term). Otherwise, don't sweat it, and do a good job and feel good about yourself at the end of the day.

9.) Finally, do stand up for your own rights when appropriate. Never take an failing grade lying down. The course director should be able to explain why your performance was not worthy of passing. Mistakes and breaches of rules do happen. It's your life, and you need to be your own biggest advocate.
 
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