Humans of New York miserable MD grad

[puahate]

Everyone has their own idea of masculinity and femininity. I mean... just look at Hollywood.
The girl on the right in that picture at least has some curve to her. The girl on the left is a rectangle with breasts. I associate femininity with softness and roundness. But again. Just my opinion.

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But hey you could always just do squats only to develop those legs and glutes.

Forget about the upper body lifts.

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Everyone has their own idea of masculinity and femininity. I mean... just look at Hollywood.
The girl on the right in that picture at least has some curve to her. The girl on the left is a rectangle with breasts. I associate femininity with softness and roundness. But again. Just my opinion.

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I guess. I'm not sure where you see a rectangle with breasts, but I don't want to keep derailing the thread lol. I'm not denying that they are muscular. That confused face was because while they are muscular, I think it's quite the exaggeration to say they look very masculine. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I guess. I'm not sure where you see a rectangle with breasts, but I don't want to keep derailing the thread lol. I'm not denying that they are muscular. That confused face was because while they are muscular, I think it's quite the exaggeration to say they look very masculine. But we can agree to disagree.

Ok
(But if you are curious, it’s not face but body type. To me the girl on the left looks masculine because her shoulders (from working out) are wider than her hips, which is a traditionally male body shape (the rectangle or inverted triangle). The traditional feminine shape is a pear or hourglass, which the girl on the right has.)


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[Goro]

Ok
(But if you are curious, it’s not face but body type. To me the girl on the left looks masculine because her shoulders (from working out) are wider than her hips, which is a traditionally male body shape (the rectangle or inverted triangle). The traditional feminine shape is a pear or hourglass, which the girl on the right has.)


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Talk about epic thread detours!!

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Talk about epic thread detours!!

Lol!


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[getdown]

Talk about epic thread detours!!

A much more enjoyable discussion than the nonsense in the earlier part of the thread.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Ok
(But if you are curious, it’s not face but body type. To me the girl on the left looks masculine because her shoulders (from working out) are wider than her hips, which is a traditionally male body shape (the rectangle or inverted triangle). The traditional feminine shape is a pear or hourglass, which the girl on the right has.)


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Fair enough. I can see what you mean with the woman on the left, though I still don't think she's super masculine looking. But yeah, the woman on the right definitely has a more feminine body shape. They both look strong AF though.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Autopilot course correction initiated. This thread is now back on track. Transitioning back to manual controls.

 

[RangerBob]

After reading this thread I sure am glad I did PM&R and not a surgical residency.

I’m also glad I’m not a rectangle with boobs?

Residency is tough. We have to look out for each other, but that also does mean preparing the people you’re responsible for training appropriately. I was all alone as a brand new attending, and when a code or rapid got called everyone is looking to me. I can’t go through the motions until the attending gets there.

When a family members loves gets a TBI and they’re asking through tears if their loved one will ever be the same, it’s just me alone answering them.

But it’s really not just me alone-I listened to my mentors and learned from them, and they’re all behind me in every decision I make. Because they cared enough to teach me.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Is this what it takes to be an ortho?

That and either a 300 lb bench or 400 lb deadlift

 

[Peter Pan.]

There are some feminine looking powerlifters though. Most have great legs and rears.

megsquats (powerlifter; on the right) Kristen pope (olympic lifter; left)
Both look very feminine and strong.

Damn those girls could kick some male butt.

 

[Peter Pan.]

After reading this thread I sure am glad I did PM&R and not a surgical residency.

I’m also glad I’m not a rectangle with boobs?

Residency is tough. We have to look out for each other, but that also does mean preparing the people you’re responsible for training appropriately. I was all alone as a brand new attending, and when a code or rapid got called everyone is looking to me. I can’t go through the motions until the attending gets there.

When a family members loves gets a TBI and they’re asking through tears if their loved one will ever be the same, it’s just me alone answering them.

But it’s really not just me alone-I listened to my mentors and learned from them, and they’re all behind me in every decision I make. Because they cared enough to teach me.

Better to be a rectangle than a fat circle. ‍♂️

 

[RNtoMD87]

Why are people so broken by words? I doubt any attending will lay hands on you. If you're not physically assaulting me, you can say what you want. In the Army I was told as a private when I messed up "Why don't you just go f*&%ing kill yourself? Youre worthless! You will never cut it as a soldier in MY army! You were a wasted **** job" things like that. And I was hard on my soldiers as well.

You know what this does? It makes you stronger when you face adversity the next time. That's the problem with Americans today. They're too soft, coddled, and weak.

We had people threaten suicide in the Army. Instead of saying "nooo! Please don't kill yourself!" (which gave them power, giving them what they wanted), leadership told them "Oh yeah?! You couldn't even kill yourself right. You won't do it! Youre a F*&^ing P*&^y!"

Not suggesting med school be THAT rigorous, but often, people need to know that they are being an idiot. If you get your feelings hurt by "Whered you get your license? A cereal box?" you need to reevaluate your life.

 

[hopefulCAdoc]

Why are people so broken by words? I doubt any attending will lay hands on you. If you're not physically assaulting me, you can say what you want. In the Army I was told as a private when I messed up "Why don't you just go f*&%ing kill yourself? Youre worthless! You will never cut it as a soldier in MY army! You were a wasted **** job" things like that. And I was hard on my soldiers as well.

You know what this does? It makes you stronger when you face adversity the next time. That's the problem with Americans today. They're too soft, coddled, and weak.

We had people threaten suicide in the Army. Instead of saying "nooo! Please don't kill yourself!" (which gave them power, giving them what they wanted), leadership told them "Oh yeah?! You couldn't even kill yourself right. You won't do it! Youre a F*&^ing P*&^y!"

Not suggesting med school be THAT rigorous, but often, people need to know that they are being an idiot. If you get your feelings hurt by "Whered you get your license? A cereal box?" you need to reevaluate your life.

That’s probably why there’s such a high rate of suicide among veterans. More than double than civilians.


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[RNtoMD87]

I guarantee you WW2 vets and before would think we were all babied. My dad was in during the Vietnam era and did nothing but complain about how weak the military has gotten, and how soft we were now. I didn't really understand until I went back to where I did basic at Fort Leonardwood 11 years after I went through. It really has changed. Its more like college now than the military.

They love to teach about how Von Steuben's Blue Book revolutionized (no pun intended) the colonial army. They don't often mention the lengths he went through to toughen his men up.

Certain professions need to be hard to people in order to prepare them for the job at hand. If you can't handle someone telling you "Go ahead! Kill yourself!" how will you ever face the enemy? SERE school ain't no joke. That's why.

If you can't handle an attending yelling at you for being stupid, how about when you're operating on some gangbanger and he dies on you, and his family thinks its all your fault.

We had a riot outside of our Trauma Neuro Critical Care unit a few months back, and it was an all out brawl. One family- divided and attacking each other. Myself and a few other male nurses jumped in to break it up (not the security guards though. They are all 60+ years old and just stood back, very useful)and finally the cops got there and started cuffing people left and right. Luckily I only left with a bloody nose (caught an elbow from an unsuspecting combatant). We sent several of them to the ER. Healthcare isn't for the weak. If words hurt your feelings, you might want to find a gentler profession.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That’s probably why there’s such a high rate of suicide among veterans. More than double than civilians.


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No it’s usually because we’re constantly in really dangerous and/or ****ed up situations and see a lot of ****ed up **** that people aren’t meant to see and don’t know how to process.

The huge amount of vets that end up unemployed and homeless probably contributes too, as well as being sort of institutionalized. You don’t realize how much the military takes care of until you’re out (or like me and I’m a student status at a civilian school), particularly for enlisted folks.

It’s very unfortunate.

The rigorous and crazy training is actually what helps you not go to **** when the SHTF. But I actually don’t think med school should be like that. I think residency needs to be tough, and attendings need to hold you to a higher standard (like the attendings here have mentioned), but there’s no reason to completely break you down to build you back up. You don’t need to do that to turn a smart person into a doctor.

 

[RNtoMD87]

No it’s usually because we’re constantly in really dangerous and/or ****ed up situations and see a lot of ****ed up **** that people aren’t meant to see and don’t know how to process.

The huge amount of vets that end up unemployed and homeless probably contributes too, as well as being sort of institutionalized. You don’t realize how much the military takes care of until you’re out (or like me and I’m a student status at a civilian school), particularly for enlisted folks.

It’s very unfortunate.

The rigorous and crazy training is actually what helps you not go to **** when the SHTF. But I actually don’t think med school should be like that. I think residency needs to be tough, and attendings need to hold you to a higher standard (like the attendings here have mentioned), but there’s no reason to completely break you down to build you back up. You don’t need to do that to turn a smart person into a doctor.

100% true. Our commander kept putting us in danger in order to get himself medals and awards for his O-4. There were times my squadmates discussed fragging him. THIS and the administrative bs is what causes suicide.

Not a popular opinion but also many unstable people go into the military for stability. Most of my comrades who killed themselves were a little unhinged when they came in.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

100% true. Our commander kept putting us in danger in order to get himself medals and awards for his O-4. There were times my squadmates discussed fragging him. THIS and the administrative bs is what causes suicide.

Not a popular opinion but also many unstable people go into the military for stability. Most of my comrades who killed themselves were a little unhinged when they came in.

Yeah we try to identify and process them out. I’ve seen a few “failure to adapts” over the years.

Unstable people definitely go into medicine too lol.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Yeah we try to identify and process them out. I’ve seen a few “failure to adapts” over the years.

Unstable people definitely go into medicine too lol.

Honestly if the army taught me anything- everyone is crazy.

You really got to see exactly what everyone’s crazy was. From keeping used tampons in wall lockers, to unspeakable sexual acts, to PICA, to just snapping and going “psycho” on others due to hitting breaking points. It was quite eye opening.


Btw women that can lift are SEXY

 

[RangerBob]

Better to be a rectangle than a fat circle. ‍♂️

I’m a guy, so the fat circle rather than rectangle with boobs would actually be the better choice for me! I just found the digression quite humerus and entertaining

 

[RangerBob]

No it’s usually because we’re constantly in really dangerous and/or ****ed up situations and see a lot of ****ed up **** that people aren’t meant to see and don’t know how to process.

The huge amount of vets that end up unemployed and homeless probably contributes too, as well as being sort of institutionalized. You don’t realize how much the military takes care of until you’re out (or like me and I’m a student status at a civilian school), particularly for enlisted folks.

It’s very unfortunate.

The rigorous and crazy training is actually what helps you not go to **** when the SHTF. But I actually don’t think med school should be like that. I think residency needs to be tough, and attendings need to hold you to a higher standard (like the attendings here have mentioned), but there’s no reason to completely break you down to build you back up. You don’t need to do that to turn a smart person into a doctor.

I imagine our enemies will be far less kind to US soldiers than US drill sergeants.

The vast majority of troops also have to be able to work and think as a unit. There’s no quicker (or better) way to bring people together than uniting them for a common cause. Hating the guts of their drill sergeant is a good start. He/she whips them into shape, builds up their mental/emotional resilience, and unites them all at the same time.

The ones that can’t make it through should not be making life and death decisions (or responsible for the lives of their comrades).

The same can be said for residency-there are many out there who can be doctors, but shouldn’t. It is a big responsibility, and you really don’t see how much of one it is until you no longer have an attending to rely on, because now it’s just you.

 

[MomJeansandDadJorts]

Yup.

This is why I want a year of employment experience to be a requirement for admission to med school.

Honestly this has helped me a lot (or I hope it will). I work a desk job and appreciate the field more because of it. At the end of the day, medicine is a job. Its easy to get overwhelmed when you are use to just studying all the time or holding part time jobs here and there.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

humerus

Bah bum tsss.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I imagine our enemies will be far less kind to US soldiers than US drill sergeants.

The vast majority of troops also have to be able to work and think as a unit. There’s no quicker (or better) way to bring people together than uniting them for a common cause. Hating the guts of their drill sergeant is a good start. He/she whips them into shape, builds up their mental/emotional resilience, and unites them all at the same time.

The ones that can’t make it through should not be making life and death decisions (or responsible for the lives of their comrades).

The same can be said for residency-there are many out there who can be doctors, but shouldn’t. It is a big responsibility, and you really don’t see how much of one it is until you no longer have an attending to rely on, because now it’s just you.

I mean, I’m in the military and have been for almost 7 years. I’ve been on deployment and in a lot of those situations where your decisions could mean life or death for you or your shipmates. That’s why I said the crazy training is necessary for us.

For residency, I don’t think so. I think the aspect of our training where we are held to ridiculously high standards applies and should be part of it, and I think residents need to learn how to function when they’re tired and sleep deprived. But they did stuff to us in boot camp that really doesn’t apply to doctors (which is why they don’t make military doctors do them).

 

[KnuxNole]

Why are people so broken by words? I doubt any attending will lay hands on you. If you're not physically assaulting me, you can say what you want. In the Army I was told as a private when I messed up "Why don't you just go f*&%ing kill yourself? Youre worthless! You will never cut it as a soldier in MY army! You were a wasted **** job" things like that. And I was hard on my soldiers as well.

You know what this does? It makes you stronger when you face adversity the next time. That's the problem with Americans today. They're too soft, coddled, and weak.

We had people threaten suicide in the Army. Instead of saying "nooo! Please don't kill yourself!" (which gave them power, giving them what they wanted), leadership told them "Oh yeah?! You couldn't even kill yourself right. You won't do it! Youre a F*&^ing P*&^y!"

Not suggesting med school be THAT rigorous, but often, people need to know that they are being an idiot. If you get your feelings hurt by "Whered you get your license? A cereal box?" you need to reevaluate your life.

That won't work in our culture.

Instead of making it stronger, they will stay the same and call HR out on anything. So yell at a resident and have a fun meeting with HR the next day. I haven't yelled at a resident, there are times where I feel like I should, but instead I have a sit down in my office with telling them of their faults, with no insults or personal attacks. Which still puts some in tears, but alas that's the nature of it sometimes.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

That won't work in our culture.

Instead of making it stronger, they will stay the same and call HR out on anything. So yell at a resident and have a fun meeting with HR the next day. I haven't yelled at a resident, there are times where I feel like I should, but instead I have a sit down in my office with telling them of their faults, with no insults or personal attacks. Which still puts some in tears, but alas that's the nature of it sometimes.

I don't think it's so much the yelling as it is the criticism that gets people upset. People are gonna get in their feelings if you criticize them regardless of whether you yell or not.

 

[863168]

I don't think it's so much the yelling as it is the criticism that gets people upset. People are gonna get in their feelings if you criticize them regardless of whether you yell or not.

People hate being criticized until a medical malpractice suit is filed against them. Then they wish they were still in training and being yelled at more by an attending about how to properly deal with these situations. "I'm a good doctor, I won't make mistakes. There will be no malpractice." The thing is that more and more healthcare professionals are seeing the allure of leaving bed-side patient care for fringe jobs like the six figure salaries offered by legal offices for healthcare professionals willing to go back to law school in order to serve as malpractice attorneys or as medical educational consult. The entire purpose of these individuals is to poke holes through a patient's EMR in order to scrutinize any gap in car and use that as an indicator of negligence or failure of due diligence on the duties of the healthcare team. It's an incredibly vexing process for all parties involved.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I don't think it's so much the yelling as it is the criticism that gets people upset. People are gonna get in their feelings if you criticize them regardless of whether you yell or not.

Right. I don’t ever raise my voice. I didn’t even do that in the Army. I calmly tell the person that they’re an idiot and they did x y and a which will cause a b and c. Anytime I see someone constantly yell, I just think “oh he’s/she’s an idiot that can’t control their emotions”

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don't think it's so much the yelling as it is the criticism that gets people upset. People are gonna get in their feelings if you criticize them regardless of whether you yell or not.

Right except they shouldn’t. Constructive criticism helps you improve. Our youth has largely been told they are amazing at everything they do for 18-22 years, so the first time they hear any criticism they take it as a personal attack.

When I got to my second command, my chief told me I was disappointing him and that I just needed to do more. What worked at my first command clearly didn’t work at my second. Instead of crying and calling him a meanie, I sacked up and did better.

 

[KnuxNole]

Do you guys think it's a generational thing? I am the same with you if I was told something was wrong...in fact I wanted people to tell my negative stuff, because no feedback to me is worse because I have no idea how to gauge my performance.

Also, the fact that a lot of med students would quit Day 1 if enlisted in the military, or write the commander up for HR to get fired or blasted on social media.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Do you guys think it's a generational thing? I am the same with you if I was told something was wrong...in fact I wanted people to tell my negative stuff, because no feedback to me is worse because I have no idea how to gauge my performance.

Also, the fact that a lot of med students would quit Day 1 if enlisted in the military, or write the commander up for HR to get fired or blasted on social media.

The snowflake generation is real. I mean when colleges make “safe spaces” for grown-ass adults with coloring and puppies because of an invited speaker who might hurt their feelings (yes this actually happened).... what do you expect?


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[KnuxNole]

The snowflake generation is real. I mean when colleges make “safe spaces” for grown-ass adults with coloring and puppies because of an invited speaker who might hurt their feelings (yes this actually happened).... what do you expect?


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Yes, I've heard that when Ben Shapiro was invited to speak at a college campus.

In regards to the original article, I do empathize with the individual in the article. Burnout in medicine is real. Training is tough, and in some ways, for the right reason, we are responsible for patient's lives. Not all of us will have life or death moments daily, but small things can lead to morbidity if too relaxed. Balance is important.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Right except they shouldn’t. Constructive criticism helps you improve. Our youth has largely been told they are amazing at everything they do for 18-22 years, so the first time they hear any criticism they take it as a personal attack.

When I got to my second command, my chief told me I was disappointing him and that I just needed to do more. What worked at my first command clearly didn’t work at my second. Instead of crying and calling him a meanie, I sacked up and did better.

It's constructive, but nobody these days wants to or likes to hear that they're wrong.

The snowflake generation is real. I mean when colleges make “safe spaces” for grown-ass adults with coloring and puppies because of an invited speaker who might hurt their feelings (yes this actually happened).... what do you expect?


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First off, your snowflake generation comment really hurt my feelings. Honestly, though I used to be a fan (not really that big of a fan more like welcomed the idea) of the whole talking more about your feelings thing and am a fan of taking mental health more seriously but things like the example you gave above just

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The snowflake generation is real. I mean when colleges make “safe spaces” for grown-ass adults with coloring and puppies because of an invited speaker who might hurt their feelings (yes this actually happened).... what do you expect?


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At some universities, students were allowed to delay taking their finals in order to grieve when Hillary lost, and they provided safe spaces at the school for them to come cry.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

At some universities, students were allowed to delay taking their finals in order to grieve when Hillary lost, and they provided safe spaces at the school for them to come cry.

What?! That's crazy!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What?! That's crazy!

Strange, but true.

 

[bananafish94]

 

[CherryRedDracul]

The snowflake generation is real. I mean when colleges make “safe spaces” for grown-ass adults with coloring and puppies because of an invited speaker who might hurt their feelings (yes this actually happened).... what do you expect?


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I believe any excuse for coloring and puppies should be valid.









WHO DOESN'T LOVE COLORING AND PUPPIES?!?!?!

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

I believe any excuse for coloring and puppies should be valid.









WHO DOESN'T LOVE COLORING AND PUPPIES?!?!?!

Coloring, yes. Puppies, no.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I believe any excuse for coloring and puppies should be valid.









WHO DOESN'T LOVE COLORING AND PUPPIES?!?!?!

I mean, I personally think adult coloring books are awesome. I used them on deployment almost every night to chill out. I love dogs, but I'd rather have a big, older dog.

 

[MyOdyssey]

At some universities, students were allowed to delay taking their finals in order to grieve when Hillary lost, and they provided safe spaces at the school for them to come cry.

Either someone pulled your leg or you’re pulling ours. No way that’s true.

 

[ciestar]

I believe any excuse for coloring and puppies should be valid.









WHO DOESN'T LOVE COLORING AND PUPPIES?!?!?!

My school brings in therapy dogs as a part of student wellness (and massage therapists to give mini-massages)... zero complaints

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Either someone pulled your leg or you’re pulling ours. No way that’s true.

Professors Postpone Exams After Trump’s Win | News | The Harvard Crimson

 

[getdown]

Either someone pulled your leg or you’re pulling ours. No way that’s true.

Colleges Cancelled Exams for Students Traumatized by Trump's Election

Universities these days are just glorified day cares with expensive tuition.

 

[raiderette]

The snowflake generation is real. I mean when colleges make “safe spaces” for grown-ass adults with coloring and puppies because of an invited speaker who might hurt their feelings (yes this actually happened).... what do you expect?


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I think it is also a class thing. I am a millennial, but I have worked since I was 14 years old. Coloring pictures won't take away poverty, discrimination, sexism, racism. I am an MS3 and have never felt overworked, since med school has been less hours than my undergraduate years.

 

[medschoolsrule]

This thread has been quite interesting, most notably how open attendings have been about their opinions on this. I'm of two minds on this issue. On the one hand, my first real job had a culture and lifestyle similar to the military (it was also full of vets) and I think I learned some valuable lessons there, most notably how to pull my head out of my **** and work. The thick skin I developed there will serve me for the rest of my life. While there, I was in a leadership role and found myself slipping into the same habits/tendencies that my trainers had, so I understand how these teaching "styles" get passed down.

Two things, however.
1. Someone once told me that truly brilliant people can be excellent at their job and still have enough energy left over to treat others with kindness/respect/patience. The majority of people are not intelligent to do both of these things (be excellent and kind/patient). I think about this a lot. It does not take much energy or restraint to ream someone out. In some ways, I see this approach as "the easy way out".

2. If medicine is a professional field, how do we define professionalism? Are personal insults professional? Is encouraging someone's suicidal thoughts professional? If you were in a fish tank and the whole world was watching, would you act the same way? Not saying there is a "right" answer to these questions, genuinely interested in perspective.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

2. If medicine is a professional field, how do we define professionalism? Are personal insults professional? Is encouraging someone's suicidal thoughts professional? If you were in a fish tank and the whole world was watching, would you act the same way? Not saying there is a "right" answer to these questions, genuinely interested in perspective.

"Professionalism" is such BS. The physician world is full of unprofessional nincompoops. Shame on them.

 

[Oso]

"Professionalism" is such BS. The physician world is full of unprofessional nincompoops. Shame on them.

I concur. Some of the most unprofessional things I see in the field are done by attendings since they're often not held accountable.

 

[BlueCircle]

It's med school. You're getting to learn how to take care of people. So you put in some work for a few years. Working 16 hour days can suck but it is what it is, and it doesn't last forever. You can 100% have a life while working that much. I worked over 80 hours/week the first 5 years I was in the Navy, and I still managed to get my bachelors on the side, have two kids, and keep up with my fitness and hobbies. It's called prioritizing. You just gotta learn how to take care of yourself.

Serious question..... How is this even possible?
There are 168 hours in a week......
If 80 go to work, and assuming you slept anywhere from 6-8 hours/week, that would only leave you with 32 to 46 hours per week for everything else (commuting, eating, cooking, laundry, bathing, fitness, hobbies, errands, lectures, homework, projects, studying, babysitting, etc).

 

[MyOdyssey]

Serious question..... How is this even possible?
There are 168 hours in a week......
If 80 go to work, and assuming you slept anywhere from 6-8 hours/week, that would only leave you with 32 to 46 hours per week for everything else (commuting, eating, cooking, laundry, bathing, fitness, hobbies, errands, lectures, homework, projects, studying, babysitting, etc).

Perhaps in the Navy keeping fit is considered part of your job and can be done while on duty?