Hyperbaric bupivicaine shortage

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MCG2012

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Hyperbaric bupi on shortage. Considering isobaric bupi or tetracaine for single shot spinal for c section. Anybody else been in this situation of drug shortage and what did you do?


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We have taken all the bupivacaine amps from all locations in the hospital and sent them up to the OB suite. This should buy us a couple months.
 
Hyperbaric bupi on shortage. Considering isobaric bupi or tetracaine for single shot spinal for c section. Anybody else been in this situation of drug shortage and what did you do?


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Put G10% in the regular bupi if you can't do without
 
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No amps left here. Isobaric .5% bupi.
 
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Sevoflurane what is your dosing? In residency we did some isobaric bupi with CSEs so we had the epidural for backup but I want to do single shot now. I seem to remember doing 10 mg of 0.5%

We’ve already pulled all the vials from everywhere else


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Sevoflurane what is your dosing? In residency we did some isobaric bupi with CSEs so we had the epidural for backup but I want to do single shot now. I seem to remember doing 10 mg of 0.5%

We’ve already pulled all the vials from everywhere else


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Same dosage as usual. I am a 12.5 mg kind of guy with 10 mcgs of fentanyl and 150 mcgs of PF morphine.
Standard spinal and like always I then T-berg my patient to get a reliable T4 level. The only difference between heavy marcaine and isobaric marcaine is that your total volume will be higher. 2.5-3.0 total mils (including fent/pf morphine). Very reliable. I don't bother with a CSE.
 
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Isobaric should theoretically go higher...

Huh????

You're gonna have to explain yourself on that one.

I then T-berg my patient to get a reliable T4 level.

Isobaric is actually very slightly hypobaric, so if anything you should be reverse-T'ing them. Bottom line though is that position will do almost nothing to affect the spread of isobaric bupi.
 
Been doing t-berg after spinal for my entire career with iso and hyper bupi.
I’ve NEVER reverse t-berg’d a spinal patient. Been doing it this way for over 10 years in PP and it works like magic. No problems attaining surgical anesthesia this way. As I said, extremely reliable.
 
Been doing t-berg after spinal for my entire career with iso and hyper bupi.
I’ve NEVER reverse t-berg’d a spinal patient. Been doing it this way for over 10 years in PP and it works like magic. No problems attaining surgical anesthesia this way. As I said, extremely reliable.

Of course it works with hyperbaric (although I don’t think it’s necessary). I don’t think it’s doing anything for your isobaric spinals at all aside from making you feel better. Check out those glass spine videos on YouTube.

 
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Of course it works with hyperbaric (although I don’t think it’s necessary). I don’t think it’s doing anything for your isobaric spinals at all aside from making you feel better. Check out those glass spine videos on YouTube.


Awesome video thanks for sharing
 
Of course it works with hyperbaric (although I don’t think it’s necessary). I don’t think it’s doing anything for your isobaric spinals at all aside from making you feel better. Check out those glass spine videos on YouTube.



Ya. I’ve seen this vid.
But if it ain’t broke.... :)
 
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What about joints?

Think we’re gonna switch to 0.5% isobaric bupi. 2.5-3mLs

Also considering mepivicaine.
 
What about joints?

Think we’re gonna switch to 0.5% isobaric bupi. 2.5-3mLs

Also considering mepivicaine.

3mL 2% Mepi works great. No redos. None of this “spinal in preop” nonsense. Incompetent orthos need not apply.
 
The thing I like about tetracaine (isobaric) vs Bupivacaine (Isobaric) is the greater degree of motor block. Isobaric Tetracaine provides long duration of surgical anesthesia with a great motor block. If I need 3-4 hours of surgical anesthesia than 12-15 mg of plain isobaric tetracaine will get it done for you. Isobaric Bupivacaine is another good choice where 15 mg will provide approximately 4 hours of surgical anesthesia.

One of my colleagues mixed Tetracaine with Bupivacaine plus dextrose along with epi 0.2 mg; the patient ended up with 10-12 hours of a surgical spinal block. Due to this unpredictable long duration I never mix the Bup and Tetracaine together. That said, perhaps, one of you academic dudes would like to study the mixture?

Spinal anesthesia using a 1:1 mixture of bupivacaine and tetracaine for peripheral vascular surgery. - PubMed - NCBI

Joint replacement spinal cocktail?
 
A typical 2 hour total joint arthroplasty doesn't need more than 8-10 mg of isobaric tetracaine. Anything more than that and the PACU nurses will hate you.

Isobaric Bup is more forgiving and I typically use 12.5 mg but 15 mg should last 3 hours. By adding some Epi to the Bup the duration will be prolonged by about 45-60 minutes.
 
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I got through a 6 hour hip revision on 15mg iso bupi + 20mcg of fent last week.
 
Thanks.

I suggested using isobaric bupi to my partners a couple days ago when we first heard of the shortage and there’s a lot of hesitation. Definitely don’t want the tetracaine as they want those elective joint folks up and moving ASAP.
 
This was in the email sent to our program informing us of the shortage.

"1. Onset time of block is longer with the isobaric solution.

2. Duration of block is longer with isobaric solution.

3. Studies of CSE done in sitting position did not show greater risk of higher than desired sensory level with isobaric solution.

4. Generally use the same dose as you would with hyperbaric bupivacaine. The advisory from SOAP suggests using 12 – 13 mg but they did not mention if this was for single-shot spinal only or was also a recommendation for CSE."
 
This was in the email sent to our program informing us of the shortage.

"1. Onset time of block is longer with the isobaric solution.

2. Duration of block is longer with isobaric solution.

3. Studies of CSE done in sitting position did not show greater risk of higher than desired sensory level with isobaric solution.

4. Generally use the same dose as you would with hyperbaric bupivacaine. The advisory from SOAP suggests using 12 – 13 mg but they did not mention if this was for single-shot spinal only or was also a recommendation for CSE."

I would agree with onset and duration regarding isobaric. I don’t do CSEs so can’t comment.
 
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What about joints?

Think we’re gonna switch to 0.5% isobaric bupi. 2.5-3mLs

Also considering mepivicaine.
Depends on surgeon speed. 1.5ml 0.5 gets you about 2 hrs. 2ml should be at least 3. I've gone down as low as 1.2 for a very fast surgeon. 3 ml lasts at least 4+ hr.
 
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Anyone know when this shortage will be resolved?
 
It's been a while since I used isobaric bupivacaine for a joint, but I used to do 2.5-3 mls of it and get roughly 2-3 hours duration block. I mean it's like the exact same mg dose as the hyperbaric stuff, it just isn't impacted by patient position and stays where you put it (which happens to be ideal for hips and knees in the lower thoracic and upper lumbar dermatomes). You also get less hypotension with the isobaric compared to hyperbaric which can be nice for a more frail patient.

The only things I haven't done with isobaric are c-sections, which I would assume are just fine, and urology type stuff. Anybody use it for cystos? Does it get a dense enough block in the urethra? I mean I know those nerve roots are in the cauda equina running right through that local I put in, but anecdotally I do love a nice saddle block which you can't get with the isobaric.
 
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It's been a while since I used isobaric bupivacaine for a joint, but I used to do 2.5-3 mls of it and get roughly 2-3 hours duration block. I mean it's like the exact same mg dose as the hyperbaric stuff, it just isn't impacted by patient position and stays where you put it (which happens to be ideal for hips and knees in the lower thoracic and upper lumbar dermatomes). You also get less hypotension with the isobaric compared to hyperbaric which can be nice for a more frail patient.

The only things I haven't done with isobaric are c-sections, which I would assume are just fine, and urology type stuff. Anybody use it for cystos? Does it get a dense enough block in the urethra? I mean I know those nerve roots are in the cauda equina running right through that local I put in, but anecdotally I do love a nice saddle block which you can't get with the isobaric.
Iso lasts far longer than hyperbaric. 15 mg iso lasts a SOLID 3-4 hrs. Gave done a few 5 hr revisions with it, no issues.

Never tried a C-section, but no reason it wouldn't work.

Works fine for cysto.
 
Hyperbaric bupi on shortage. Considering isobaric bupi or tetracaine for single shot spinal for c section. Anybody else been in this situation of drug shortage and what did you do?


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The work of Carvalho et al “The ED50 and ED95 of Intrathecal Isobaric Bupivacaine with Opioids for Cesarean Delivery, Anesthesiology 2005; 103:606 –12”.

In summary, Isobaric intrathecal bupivacaine when coadministered with intrathecal fentanyl (10 micrograms) and morphine (200 micrograms) for cesarean delivery had a ED95 values of 13.0 mg.

Here are some key points if your in a hurry and don't want to read the article:
  • Isobaric solutions may also offer additional benefits when blocks are performed in the sitting position and there is potential for delay in assuming the horizontal position such as in cesarean sections.
  • The mean duration of surgery was 62 minutes.
  • Overall anesthetic success was reliable and similar to hyperbaric bupivacaine, with no failures in patients receiving doses in excess of 10 mg.
  • With the addition of intrathecal opioids coupled with the lower cerebrospinal fluid specific gravity in pregnancy, we would expect isobaric bupivacaine to be hypobaric with respect to the patient’s cerebrospinal fluid. Spinal administration with patients in the sitting position wouldhave facilitated cephalad spread.
  • In this study, they did not adjust doses of intrathecal bupivacaine to patient height or weight. Although some studies have suggested patient height and weight may affect block characteristics, other authors have demonstrated no effects of age, height, weight, or body mass index on the spread of sensory blockade.
  • Norris et al. determined that adjusting the intrathecal dose for height and weight variables within the normal range is unnecessary.
  • To make up the study groups’ doses, all patients received a total intrathecal volume of 3 mlcomposed of 0.6 ml opioid solution (fentanyl and morphine) combined with a variable volume of the isobaric bupivacaine (1–2.2 ml) and normal saline
  • Although they do not believe that the addition of fentanyl (baricity of 0.99333 g/ml) and morphine (baricity of 0.99983 g/ml) would have significantly changed the baricity and/or behavior of these hypobaric solutions in cerebrospinal fluid, it is important to remember that the findings of this study are for isobaric bupivacaine with 10 micrograms fentanyl and 200 micrograms morphine. The use of different intrathecal opioids or different fentanyl or morphine doses may result in slightly different ED50 and ED95 values.
Here are some other references for isobaric 0.5 being used for c-sections:
1. Ben-David B, Miller G, Gavriel R, Gurevitch A: Low-dose bupivacaine- fentanyl spinal anesthesia for cesarean delivery. Reg Anesth Pain Med 2000; 25:235–9
2. Sarvela PJ, Halonen PM, Korttila KT: Comparison of 9 mg of intrathecal plain and hyperbaric bupivacaine both with fentanyl for cesarean delivery. Anesth Analg 1999; 89:1257–62
3. Vercauteren MP, Coppejans HC, Hoffmann VL, Saldien V, Adriaensen HA: Small-dose hyperbaric versus plain bupivacaine during spinal anesthesia for cesarean section. Anesth Analg 1998; 86:989–93
4. Russell IF, Holmqvist EL: Subarachnoid analgesia for caesarean section: A double-blind comparison of plain and hyperbaric 0.5% bupivacaine. Br J Anaesth 1987; 59:347–53
5. Stienstra R, van Poorten JF: Plain or hyperbaric bupivacaine for spinal anesthesia. Anesth Analg 1987; 66:171–6
6. Critchley LA, Morley AP, Derrick J: The influence of baricity on the haemo- dynamic effects of intrathecal bupivacaine 0.5%. Anaesthesia 1999; 54:469–74
 
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Can someone post a photo of the 0.5% isobaric bupivacaine they use? The only 0.5% bupivacaine we stock is the one we use for nerve blocks and it says "not for spinal anesthesia" on the label.
 
Can someone post a photo of the 0.5% isobaric bupivacaine they use? The only 0.5% bupivacaine we stock is the one we use for nerve blocks and it says "not for spinal anesthesia" on the label.
Yup, the only kind that exists. Never FDA approved for spinal anesthesia. However, it's been done worldwide billions of times and is perfectly safe and medico-legal ok as well.
 
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And as an added bonus, it freaks out the nurses.
 
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Can someone explain effect of patient positioning for spinal with isobaric bupivicaine. Someone I worked with today wanted to place patient on right for a right sided TKR after hypobaric. Did not make sense to me. How about positioning for ob section?

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Can someone explain effect of patient positioning for spinal with isobaric bupivicaine. Someone I worked with today wanted to place patient on right for a right sided TKR after hypobaric. Did not make sense to me. How about positioning for ob section?

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Positioning is irrelevant for isobaric. Right lateral decubitus for hypobaric will likely make no real difference but theoretically makes no sense.
 
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Positioning is irrelevant for isobaric. Right lateral decubitus for hypobaric will likely make no real difference but theoretically makes no sense.
The idea is it becomes slightly hypobaric when mixed with spinal fluid and heats up to body temperature, so it might be possible to make a left side only block with right side decubitus if changed quick enough/low amount of anesthetics, maybe regardless of amount of anesthetic doing it in right decubitus and facing the bevel upwards, not 100% sure. The only thing I have heard happen though is one of my attending a doing a high spinal with it because he injected it too slowly with the patient seated.
 
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The idea is it becomes slightly hypobaric when mixed with spinal fluid and heats up to body temperature, so it might be possible to make a left side only block with right side decubitus if changed quick enough/low amount of anesthetics, maybe regardless of amount of anesthetic doing it in right decubitus and facing the bevel upwards, not 100% sure. The only thing I have heard happen though is one of my attending a doing a high spinal with it because he injected it too slowly with the patient seated.
Your patient got a high spinal because they got a high spinal. Not because someone injected too slowly.
 
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Can someone explain effect of patient positioning for spinal with isobaric bupivicaine. Someone I worked with today wanted to place patient on right for a right sided TKR after hypobaric. Did not make sense to me. How about positioning for ob section?

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You can do whatever you want patient positioning-wise with isobaric. They'll be no clinical effect. Hyperbaric will obviously sink to the down side in a lateral position and hypobaric will float (though, I've never seen hypobaric used in clinical practice).

In PP, isobaric for a total hip or hip fx IMO is ideal because a) less hypotension than hyperbaric and b) you can immediately position the patient without any effect on the block. If you're waiting 5 or 10 minutes to let your hyperbaric block set, your surgeon may not be too pleased.
 
Your patient got a high spinal because they got a high spinal. Not because someone injected too slowly.
Maybe, maybe not. It is one of those things a person does in residency and people remember it forever. It was so long ago, who knows what really happened, if iso bupi wasn’t different back then, the iso bupi might be slightly different here from the us, heck, he might have diluted it in csf. All I know is that here most people believe iso bupi does go up if you leave the patient seated for too long. And I will not try to prove that wrong. Even if I wanted too, we lost access to isobaric bupi recently :( .
 
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Maybe, maybe not. It is one of those things a person does in residency and people remember it forever. It was so long ago, who knows what really happened, if iso bupi wasn’t different back then, the iso bupi might be slightly different here from the us, heck, he might have diluted it in csf. All I know is that here most people believe iso bupi does go up if you leave the patient seated for too long. And I will not try to prove that wrong. Even if I wanted too, we lost access to isobaric bupi recently :( .
An attending of mine had a high spinal with hyperbaric in an OB patient. High spinals happen. Injection speed does not affect spinal height.
 
I’ve seen hypobaric used to create a saddle-ish block in a prone jackknife pilonidal cyst excision.

I think in the case @parcus is talking about it wasn’t the slow injection itself but rather keeping the patient sitting for too long thus allowing the hypobaric solution enough time to float up and cause a high block.
 
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I’ve seen hypobaric used to create a saddle-ish block in a prone jackknife pilonidal cyst excision.

I think in the case @parcus is talking about it wasn’t the slow injection itself but rather keeping the patient sitting for too long thus allowing the hypobaric solution enough time to float up and cause a high block.
And that the reason the patient was sitting up for so long because it took the guy too long to inject?!? How long was the injection time? To accomplish something like this takes 5-10 minutes!!!
 
How long was the injection time? To accomplish something like this takes 5-10 minutes!!!

Hey, people do some crazy ****. I’m just spitballin’ here and based one the description I bet that’s what happened.
 
The residency environment in my country was: do a spinal, figure it out, send someone to tell me if pt is dying.
 
I’ve seen hypobaric used to create a saddle-ish block in a prone jackknife pilonidal cyst excision.

I think in the case @parcus is talking about it wasn’t the slow injection itself but rather keeping the patient sitting for too long thus allowing the hypobaric solution enough time to float up and cause a high block.

There is no clinically relevant "floating" of the isobaric bupivacaine that would allow it to cause a high spinal if the patient was allowed to sit for whatever period of time you wanted.
 
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There is no clinically relevant "floating" of the isobaric bupivacaine that would allow it to cause a high spinal if the patient was allowed to sit for whatever period of time you wanted.

Agree 100%. I thought it was hypobaric in the story. Maybe I read it wrong.
 
Agree 100%. I thought it was hypobaric in the story. Maybe I read it wrong.

He was just pointing out that isobaric bupivacaine is technically ever so slightly hypobaric compared to CSF. I'm just saying while it technically is hypobaric ever so slightly it is clinically not going to matter.
 
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He was just pointing out that isobaric bupivacaine is technically ever so slightly hypobaric compared to CSF. I'm just saying while it technically is hypobaric ever so slightly it is clinically not going to matter.
A low dose of plain or hyperbaric bupivacaine for unilateral spinal anesthesia. - PubMed - NCBI and https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ec44/94cac15d46159b2c674c668f2ff8d5c368c8.pdf . But I agree, it doesn't seem very practical at all, maybe one could use this for a surgery in lateral decubitus. Frankly, it would be much better to use hypobaric than rely on that if that is your goal.
 
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We are also running low on hyperbaric. We have 0.5% bupiv, 1.5% and 2% mepiv, and hospital is getting us 0.75% bupiv in separate vials so we have options. The 0.75% they are ordering does not have dextrose in it, so wondering how I dose that for C Sections or total joints?
 
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