I am an ICU Nurse with low MCAT score

[DMG]

I really need your honest advice.

I am 34 years old, with two little beautiful children and a husband that is very supportive. I have 8 years of nursing experience (6 in neuro medical ICU). I have worked as a charge nurse; I have been in management related position, done research that is related to improving the health of respiratory compromised ICU patients. I have been in three different medical missions out side of US and also helped establish an organization that will be traveling abroad to do yearly medical missions in Africa. I have volunteered in homeless clinic and elderly homes since 2008. Volunteering in other places also. I am also a SIM Lab instructor to new ICU nurses by giving them scenario on simulation manikin using critical patient events.

I have more than three physicians that work with me that are willing to right me LOR and definitely my supervisor, and also others are willing to write me LOR.

My GPA is over 3.7 (both science and non-science) & I have taken MCAT twice and the second time I raised it up to 22 (November 2014) and I have no interest of taking it again. Verbal was my weakest areas as English is my third language.


I am applying to the class entering 2016, however, I want to know my options and how I should go by presenting my self. I will do a few DO schools but what do you think about MD schools?

Your advice is very much appreciated!

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[deleted651092]

You'd be limiting your options with that score. I'd take it again.

 

[QofQuimica]

The rest of your app appears to be stellar from what you've said, and it would be a shame if you couldn't achieve your dream because of the MCAT. Unfortunately it is likely that no allo schools will be interested in you with a 22 MCAT. Here in Florida, despite our med schools heavily favoring in-state residents, the average for matriculants to all of our state schools is still in the 28-32 range. Even for DO schools, I think you will likely struggle to get accepted anywhere with a 22. For this reason, I agree with the prior poster that you should retake.

 

[Aloft085]

I've skeptical that you could even get into a DO school with a 22. Furthermore, if you're scoring that low, it's not going to bode well for your STEP 1 and 2 scores later on. If you're not confident that you can do better on the MCAT, I would reconsider your career options. Perhaps consider PA school or upgrading to nurse practitioner.

 

[DMG]

Thank you for your advices!

So what about schools like Howard with interviews as low as 22 (which is already written on their website), Meharry and so on. Those are MD schools, not even DO. Ofcouse people get in to DO schools even with 19.

How are you backing up your statements. Also I am not for sure taking MCAT again and if I would have done something different I would have done it long time ago.
Thanks

 

[DrMidlife]

How are you backing up your statements.

Look for the FACTS tables on aamc.org. You're interacting with people who have been directly involved with, and paid obsessively close attention to, med school admissions for decades.

Also I am not for sure taking MCAT again and if I would have done something different I would have done it long time ago.

Then you're not going to med school. Find the MCAT forum here for advice on how to improve your score, and to see if your prior prep was reasonable. In general it takes months and money.

Schools that admit students with a low MCAT are not doing any favors, because there's nothing but constant unrelenting hours-long multiple choice exams in med school. The MCAT is what it is for good reason.

I'm all in favor of those with serious healthcare experience going after med school. But I've also seen too many people who weren't well prepared fail out.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Mad Jack]

Your chances are almost nil of getting into an MD school. Even DO school will be difficult. Howard and the like have lower scores because they largely focus on disadvantaged black applicants (they are historically black medical colleges).

 

[DMG]

Your chances are almost nil of getting into an MD school. Even DO school will be difficult. Howard and the like have lower scores because they largely focus on disadvantaged black applicants (they are historically black medical colleges).

But that is what I am BLACK!

 

[Mad Jack]

But that is what I am BLACK!

Oh, missed that. You might have a shot then. HBCUs are your best shot, along with some lower-tier state MDs and lower stat DO schools.

 

[ridethecliche]

I'd retake it and get into a competitive score range. Take a course if you have to or self study using TBR or TPR.... well the MCAT is changing now so you're going to have to wait and figure it out.

A score of a 22 isn't confidence inspiring even with URM status...

 

[Deranged Medic]

I hope you aren't banking on your nursing experience to make up for a low MCAT. I'm a paramedic with nearly 8 years of healthcare experience, and my paramedic time was a brief mention in all of the interviews I attended. I think they liked it, but it wasn't as big of a deal to my interviewers as it had been to me.

I would also agree you need to retake the MCAT. I just pulled up the current MSAR, and the only MD schools who accepted students with a 22 MCAT (10th-90th MCAT score data) were:
San Juan Bautista School of Medicine: 19-30
Ponce School of Medicine and Health Sciences: 20-28
Universidad Central del Caribe School of Medicine: 20-27
University of Puerto Rico School of Medicine: 21-29

Yes, you might have a shot at a HBC; however, I looked at their MCAT scores as well, and their accepted students are all above a 22:
Morehouse: 23-31
Meharry: 24-30
Howard: 24-32

I do not have the data for DO schools, but I know my friend was lucky to obtain a DO acceptance with a 24. The 2 lower-stat schools that immediately come to mind are WVSOM and ATSU-SOMA.

I do wish you the best of luck. I applied with a lower MCAT (26), and I was fortunate to be accepted by my top choice MD school. Miracles do happen, but I think it is extremely risky to gamble your hopes and dreams on a 22.

 

[Goro]

MCAT scores are lethal for MD schools and circling the drain for DO programs. You'd be autorejected from my school.

Unfortunately, unless you can fix your VR deficit, Medicine isn't for you. Low MCATs are risk factors for failing out of med school and/or failing Boards.

I really need your honest advice.

I am 34 years old, with two little beautiful children and a husband that is very supportive. I have 8 years of nursing experience (6 in neuro medical ICU). I have worked as a charge nurse; I have been in management related position, done research that is related to improving the health of respiratory compromised ICU patients. I have been in three different medical missions out side of US and also helped establish an organization that will be traveling abroad to do yearly medical missions in Africa. I have volunteered in homeless clinic and elderly homes since 2008. Volunteering in other places also. I am also a SIM Lab instructor to new ICU nurses by giving them scenario on simulation manikin using critical patient events.

I have more than three physicians that work with me that are willing to right me LOR and definitely my supervisor, and also others are willing to write me LOR.

My GPA is over 3.7 (both science and non-science) & I have taken MCAT twice and the second time I raised it up to 22 (November 2014) and I have no interest of taking it again. Verbal was my weakest areas as English is my third language.


I am applying to the class entering 2016, however, I want to know my options and how I should go by presenting my self. I will do a few DO schools but what do you think about MD schools?

Your advice is very much appreciated!

 

[jl lin]

I really need your honest advice.

I am 34 years old, with two little beautiful children and a husband that is very supportive. I have 8 years of nursing experience (6 in neuro medical ICU). I have worked as a charge nurse; I have been in management related position, done research that is related to improving the health of respiratory compromised ICU patients. I have been in three different medical missions out side of US and also helped establish an organization that will be traveling abroad to do yearly medical missions in Africa. I have volunteered in homeless clinic and elderly homes since 2008. Volunteering in other places also. I am also a SIM Lab instructor to new ICU nurses by giving them scenario on simulation manikin using critical patient events.

I have more than three physicians that work with me that are willing to right me LOR and definitely my supervisor, and also others are willing to write me LOR.

My GPA is over 3.7 (both science and non-science) & I have taken MCAT twice and the second time I raised it up to 22 (November 2014) and I have no interest of taking it again. Verbal was my weakest areas as English is my third language.


I am applying to the class entering 2016, however, I want to know my options and how I should go by presenting my self. I will do a few DO schools but what do you think about MD schools?

Your advice is very much appreciated!

Seriously, you have to hone in on WHY your score is so weak. I have helped foreign students raise up their verbal and reading scores. It can be done. It takes work. . . a lot of work and practice and support--especially for someone whose first language is not English.

IMHO/experience, it's tougher for students to learn this all on their own. After you get down with more of the basics, it also takes time to apply inferential analysis. A number of students, in general, not just ESL students, struggle with this. With the right teacher, seriously, they improve.

You need to find a teacher than can help you from the ESL perspective in reading and then move into helping you with understanding inferential reading, etc.
Go to your local school and find whatever resources they have there that can help. Humbly and enthusiastically accept the help.

If you try to do it all on your own, you will probably continue to struggle, b/c English isn't your first language, and there is more to just understanding basics in English to the verbal portions of these standardized exams.

Do this first. Get into it, and then get confident. It's like your car is in a ditch, and you need a push from another person to help you out of it, so to speak. Don't just keep pushing the accelerator, digging deeper into the ditch. You can do this with the right help.

 

[DMG]

Thank you every one for your input. As I mentioned before, I am not retaking the MCAT, however, even if it is low I will still take my chances and apply TO MORE SCHOOLS (Both MD & DO) & APPLY EARLY.

Good luck to all in what ever path you are in!

 

[oldstock]

I really need your honest advice.

I am 34 years old, with two little beautiful children and a husband that is very supportive. I have 8 years of nursing experience (6 in neuro medical ICU). I have worked as a charge nurse; I have been in management related position, done research that is related to improving the health of respiratory compromised ICU patients. I have been in three different medical missions out side of US and also helped establish an organization that will be traveling abroad to do yearly medical missions in Africa. I have volunteered in homeless clinic and elderly homes since 2008. Volunteering in other places also. I am also a SIM Lab instructor to new ICU nurses by giving them scenario on simulation manikin using critical patient events.

I have more than three physicians that work with me that are willing to right me LOR and definitely my supervisor, and also others are willing to write me LOR.

My GPA is over 3.7 (both science and non-science) & I have taken MCAT twice and the second time I raised it up to 22 (November 2014) and I have no interest of taking it again. Verbal was my weakest areas as English is my third language.


I am applying to the class entering 2016, however, I want to know my options and how I should go by presenting my self. I will do a few DO schools but what do you think about MD schools?

Your advice is very much appreciated!

But that is what I am BLACK!

you will def get in. I just read posts where the poster got 24 MCAT + 3.8GPA and did not even have extensive medical background like you do got in U of Minnesota, Mayo, and many others...

 

[DMG]

you will def get in. I just read posts where the poster got 24 MCAT + 3.8GPA and did not even have extensive medical background like you do got in U of Minnesota, Mayo, and many others...

Wow, U of M is my first choice since I am from MN. Do you know what cycle he/she applied?

 

[Dullhead]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/3-9-gpa-23-mcat-black-male-any-advice.1085014/

 

[Goro]

Concur.

I'd retake it and get into a competitive score range. Take a course if you have to or self study using TBR or TPR.... well the MCAT is changing now so you're going to have to wait and figure it out.

A score of a 22 isn't confidence inspiring even with URM status...

 

[oldstock]

Wow, U of M is my first choice since I am from MN. Do you know what cycle he/she applied?

2014 - 2015.

 

[oldstock]

I'd retake it and get into a competitive score range. Take a course if you have to or self study using TBR or TPR.... well the MCAT is changing now so you're going to have to wait and figure it out.

A score of a 22 isn't confidence inspiring even with URM status...

Concur.

they can get in, and that is all that matters...

 

[oldstock]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/3-9-gpa-23-mcat-black-male-any-advice.1085014/

dang, while I was reading, I had to remind myself that I was not reading fiction....

 

[DMG]

they can get in, and that is all that matters...

Definitely, I think SDN emphasizes on getting in the most competitive MD schools, but not every one wants those schools or we don't all need to be there.
Thank you for sharing the link and very inspiring story.

 

[ridethecliche]

they can get in, and that is all that matters...

Yeah okay...

 

[Deranged Medic]

they can get in, and that is all that matters...

Miracles do happen from time to time. I believe everyone is trying to give realistic advice and increase the probability of an acceptance.

I really hope OP gets an acceptance, but do I think a 22 will cut it? No.

I think solid advice has been give on this forum. I honestly hope I don't see OP on here a year from now wondering what to do since they did not get in.

 

[DMG]

Miracles do happen from time to time. I believe everyone is trying to give realistic advice and increase the probability of an acceptance.

I really hope OP gets an acceptance, but do I think a 22 will cut it? No.

I think solid advice has been give on this forum. I honestly hope I don't see OP on here a year from now wondering what to do since they did not get in.

Thank you for your input.

The reason for this forum was to help me see how I can go by applying, where, when and all the other details that come after it. I can raise my chances if I take MCAT again for sure and no question about it. Advising me to take it again is kind of the obvious solution that doesn't need a forum like this.
Thanks

 

[Deranged Medic]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/3-9-gpa-23-mcat-black-male-any-advice.1085014/

FYI, I may be attending school with this kid. We have PM'ed on here before, and his story is definitely inspiring.

Thank you for your input.

The reason for this forum was to help me see how I can go by applying, where, when and all the other details that come after it. I can raise my chances if I take MCAT again for sure and no question about it. Advising me to take it again is kind of the obvious solution that doesn't need a forum like this.
Thanks

You asked for "honest advice" in your original post. We gave it. I'm sorry it wasn't what you wanted.

 

[deleted480308]

Thank you for your input.

The reason for this forum was to help me see how I can go by applying, where, when and all the other details that come after it. I can raise my chances if I take MCAT again for sure and no question about it. Advising me to take it again is kind of the obvious solution that doesn't need a forum like this.
Thanks

if the forum wasn't needed you wouldn't be arguing with the forum's good advice

 

[DMG]

if the forum wasn't needed you wouldn't be arguing with the forum's good advice

You can take it this way, "what would you suggest I do, if I have no way of taking the MCAT again with what I have to offer , low MCAT and EC I have?"

 

[deleted480308]

You can take it this way, "what would you suggest I do, if I have no way of taking the MCAT again with what I have to offer , low MCAT and EC I have?"

My suggestion would be to realize that you can and should take the mcat again

 

[DMG]

My suggestion would be to realize that you can and should take the mcat again

Thanks

 

[Scottish Chap]

I really need your honest advice.

I am 34 years old, with two little beautiful children and a husband that is very supportive. I have 8 years of nursing experience (6 in neuro medical ICU). I have worked as a charge nurse; I have been in management related position, done research that is related to improving the health of respiratory compromised ICU patients. I have been in three different medical missions out side of US and also helped establish an organization that will be traveling abroad to do yearly medical missions in Africa. I have volunteered in homeless clinic and elderly homes since 2008. Volunteering in other places also. I am also a SIM Lab instructor to new ICU nurses by giving them scenario on simulation manikin using critical patient events.

I have more than three physicians that work with me that are willing to right me LOR and definitely my supervisor, and also others are willing to write me LOR.

My GPA is over 3.7 (both science and non-science) & I have taken MCAT twice and the second time I raised it up to 22 (November 2014) and I have no interest of taking it again. Verbal was my weakest areas as English is my third language.


I am applying to the class entering 2016, however, I want to know my options and how I should go by presenting my self. I will do a few DO schools but what do you think about MD schools?

Your advice is very much appreciated!

If you don't care about allopathic versus osteopathic (and they're both absolutely fine), I'm going to go against the grain in this forum and bet you'll get into the latter with that MCAT--ONLY because of your GPA and experience. You should apply to your local DO school if you really don't want to take the test again or if you plan to take it again soon. Do not apologize for it on your application; it will come up naturally at the interview stage.

Now that said (and I will submit this to you from personal experience), if you know yourself not to be amazing at taking multiple choice and standardized tests, you are committing yourself to one unbelievably painful journey. You won't need me to tell you that medical school is loaded with those kinds of tests, and they progressively get harder as your career advances starting with USMLE Step 3 and then your board exams because now you have to take them while working an exhausting schedule and with little study time. That's why medical schools use the MCAT. There were a couple of people in my medical school class who scores in the 99th percentile (one guy with a 38) who scored 1 SD < than the mean on STEP 1 because they were slackers but almost nobody smokes medicals school with an initial problem with these types of tests.

I'm not trying to put you off--just suggesting you honestly assess what your home life might become like if you've taken the test twice with similar results. Also, and you'll know this, the day to day life of a physician does not require a rocket scientist...it's just the journey and then the recertification every 10 years for the rest of your life that is painful. Good luck!

 

[BeticTrifecta]

Hello DMG,

Being a nurse, I am assuming that you have done your fair share of science courses for your program at the time. However, I believe the reason for your low MCAT score is due to the lack of core science courses needed that most pre-med students are required to take. The issue with having only taken science courses for nursing is that you are not taught the information that is actually on the MCAT. If becoming an MD is truly your dream, I would suggest waiting another year or so before applying again and enroll back into school on a part-time basis to take the accelerated or core science courses. Alternatively, since the comprehension component of the MCAT was particularly difficult for you, I would take some time to study this as well. I believe an extra 12 months to study would reflect a better example of dedication to the medical school administrators rather than taking the MCAT over and over again with little improvement. Hope that helps!

 

[DMG]

If you don't care about allopathic versus osteopathic (and they're both absolutely fine), I'm going to go against the grain in this forum and bet you'll get into the latter with that MCAT--ONLY because of your GPA and experience. You should apply to your local DO school if you really don't want to take the test again or if you plan to take it again soon. Do not apologize for it on your application; it will come up naturally at the interview stage.

Now that said (and I will submit this to you from personal experience), if you know yourself not to be amazing at taking multiple choice and standardized tests, you are committing yourself to one unbelievably painful journey. You won't need me to tell you that medical school is loaded with those kinds of tests, and they progressively get harder as your career advances starting with USMLE Step 3 and then your board exams because now you have to take them while working an exhausting schedule and with little study time. That's why medical schools use the MCAT. There were a couple of people in my medical school class who scores in the 99th percentile (one guy with a 38) who scored 1 SD < than the mean on STEP 1 because they were slackers but almost nobody smokes medicals school with an initial problem with these types of tests.

I'm not trying to put you off--just suggesting you honestly assess what your home life might become like if you've taken the test twice with similar results. Also, and you'll know this, the day to day life of a physician does not require a rocket scientist...it's just the journey and then the recertification every 10 years for the rest of your life that is painful. Good luck!

Thank you for you advice. I will make sure I won't apologize for my MCAT. That is exactly what my adviser told me as well.

The step tests as I was told multiple times with physician I work and volunteer with and that are friends to me, is nothing like MCAT. There will defintely be NO physics. With that said, I undertand the bio section on the MCAT has a lot of what we will be needing in mediacal school. I actually scored higher in that section due to the fact that I teach whole body system and know it well. And their is definetly no Verbl section on those tests which is my number one killer on my MCAT.
So, yes I am 100% sure I am not taking this test again. At this point, with two kids, full time job & planning medical mission trips I can't imagin taking it again.

I am well aware of the recertifications, which are also required for nursing license and CCRN. Even if they are not as hard as the MDs' it is multiple choice and they require intense studying.
Hopefully, my life experience has thought me and prepared me for the medical school intense schedule and challenges.
I will continue to move forward!
Thank you again!

 

[DMG]

Hello DMG,

Being a nurse, I am assuming that you have done your fair share of science courses for your program at the time. However, I believe the reason for your low MCAT score is due to the lack of core science courses needed that most pre-med students are required to take. The issue with having only taken science courses for nursing is that you are not taught the information that is actually on the MCAT. If becoming an MD is truly your dream, I would suggest waiting another year or so before applying again and enroll back into school on a part-time basis to take the accelerated or core science courses. Alternatively, since the comprehension component of the MCAT was particularly difficult for you, I would take some time to study this as well. I believe an extra 12 months to study would reflect a better example of dedication to the medical school administrators rather than taking the MCAT over and over again with little improvement. Hope that helps!

That is correct that nursing school did not teach me all what is on the MCAT, but being SIM instructor I find my self teaching nurses similar topics and even in depth in some of the body system since it is critical care.
With regards to taking classes, that is actually what I did on the second round (took org II which I never took) and took political science class with intensive writing to help me with verbal. This is on the top of the expensive Kaplan course I took. Did I improve with those class room class? I definetly did and hoping that Medical Schools will see that effort and improvement that I made.

Other than that, it will be absolutely impossible for me to take the test again and want to see where I will go from here with my application. Who knows, I can be one of the students where miracle work will happen. Keeping the faith!

Thanks

 

[Doctor Bob]

What I see in these threads over and over again is people saying "I'm a great person with lots of good life experiences, but i have bad scores; can I get in?"

Medical schools get thousands of applicants who are all great people with lots of good life experiences... and lots of them have good scores. So your odds are not good.

"But I know people who got in with worse scores". Sure, but those people tend to be the anomaly. Again, the odds are not good.

Your question stems from what can you do 'besides improve your MCAT' in order to get into med school. That's not a question we can answer. In our collective experiences (and you've got quite a range of perspectives... premeds, medstudents, residents, attendings, adcoms, etc...) you can't get in that way; the poor MCAT is a mark that will get you autorejected from most places before the rest of your application gets a second look.

We have little useful advice to give. The number of people who successfully get in with your MCAT is so low that few if any of us know about them and can't give any useful info.

Which puts us back to where much of this started. Our collective advice is that applying with your stats is not a good idea and that what you should do is improve your MCAT.
Short of that, it is your money and your time and you are free to do with it what you like. We can't give you more useful advice than that.

 

[DMG]

What I see in these threads over and over again is people saying "I'm a great person with lots of good life experiences, but i have bad scores; can I get in?"

Medical schools get thousands of applicants who are all great people with lots of good life experiences... and lots of them have good scores. So your odds are not good.

"But I know people who got in with worse scores". Sure, but those people tend to be the anomaly. Again, the odds are not good.

Your question stems from what can you do 'besides improve your MCAT' in order to get into med school. That's not a question we can answer. In our collective experiences (and you've got quite a range of perspectives... premeds, medstudents, residents, attendings, adcoms, etc...) you can't get in that way; the poor MCAT is a mark that will get you autorejected from most places before the rest of your application gets a second look.

We have little useful advice to give. The number of people who successfully get in with your MCAT is so low that few if any of us know about them and can't give any useful info.

Which puts us back to where much of this started. Our collective advice is that applying with your stats is not a good idea and that what you should do is improve your MCAT.
Short of that, it is your money and your time and you are free to do with it what you like. We can't give you more useful advice than that.

Thanks

 

[Prettywoman0172]

Did you actually take the prerequisite medical school courses? The non-nursing, regular, basic sciences?

 

[Nasrudin]

The MCAT is a ballbuster. And if you've hit the wall with it, facing it again could be daunting in a way that plugging away at a low gpa would not be. It's very stressful in its singularity as an event. In the same way that getting knocked out brutally can change a fighter.

Your stellar application aside from this, And...the fact that you're black (why dance around that with BS) could very well get you in. And you're right that the MCAT is a very different exam that tests certain things that the step doesn't. People who don't do well on the MCAT but who who work hard in medical school can do very well on the STEP.

It's just that high scorers tend to score high on stuff, and thus the trend.

Statistics can be misleading in either case. Take for instance the low score range at an HBCU. Those stats can mislead people. What those schools try to do is give people a chance to be doctors who come from environments where high school graduation might be an anomaly, they also look for applicants interested in working in underserved communities. So there might be a cluster of low scores in the acceptance pool. But the rest will be similar to other medical schools. So that the range can be misleading. And becoming one of the exceptions there or somewhere is still an exceedingly small subset of the accepted applicant pool.

But...your application and you're URM status may do it. I mean I did it on the gpa end of things but I'm not sure what a 22 MCAT comparess to my gpa relative the applicant pool. It's seems more of an outlier. But wtf do I know. I'm certainly not going to look it up.

Good luck.

 

[DMG]

Did you actually take the prerequisite medical school courses? The non-nursing, regular, basic sciences?

Yes I did.
Even the upper high recommended classes. With all A's except one A-

 

[DMG]

The MCAT is a ballbuster. And if you've hit the wall with it, facing it again could be daunting in a way that plugging away at a low gpa would not be. It's very stressful in its singularity as an event. In the same way that getting knocked out brutally can change a fighter.

Your stellar application aside from this, And...the fact that you're black (why dance around that with BS) could very well get you in. And you're right that the MCAT is a very different exam that tests certain things that the step doesn't. People who don't do well on the MCAT but who who work hard in medical school can do very well on the STEP.

It's just that high scorers tend to score high on stuff, and thus the trend.

Statistics can be misleading in either case. Take for instance the low score range at an HBCU. Those stats can mislead people. What those schools try to do is give people a chance to be doctors who come from environments where high school graduation might be an anomaly, they also look for applicants interested in working in underserved communities. So there might be a cluster of low scores in the acceptance pool. But the rest will be similar to other medical schools. So that the range can be misleading. And becoming one of the exceptions there or somewhere is still an exceedingly small subset of the accepted applicant pool.

But...your application and you're URM status may do it. I mean I did it on the gpa end of things but I'm not sure what a 22 MCAT comparess to my gpa relative the applicant pool. It's seems more of an outlier. But wtf do I know. I'm certainly not going to look it up.

Good luck.

Thank you for the encouraging words. I will do my best to stand out on my application.

 

[southpawcannon]

What is your first and second language, btw, since you say Engliah is your 3rd?

 

[DMG]

What is your first and second language, btw, since you say Engliah is your 3rd?

Amharic & Oromic, it is Ethiopian language

 

[Nasrudin]

Thank you for the encouraging words. I will do my best to stand out on my application.

I don't really mean to encourage or discourage. The fact that you take it as encouragement kind of means you don't really need advice. But rather to go ahead and apply and either prove the logic of my colleagues wrong or right. Fighting logic is perilous, but I understand the allure.

You should apply to DC area schools. There's lots of Ethipopian patients and amhardic would be a huge asset on occasion.

I'm not sure to what extent the affirmative action impulse really seeks cultural representation or just strictly a balanced color palate. I find scant simarities between Ethiopian and African American cultures unless under the purvey of some pan leftist frame that depicts the global struggle against the legacy of European colonialism. In other word nothing at all when it comes to person to person interactions.

Sort of amusing though. The folly of university liberal arts trained social engineers holding up their Nigerian student on the front of their pamphlet of rainbows and bohemian bliss. Not that I have anything against the bohemian dream. It's my favorite actually. I just never thought it could be arrived at by social engineering.

But if it gets you into medical school then then that's all that matters right. So be encouraged by whatever you choose.

 

[DrMidlife]

Here's what's to expect, DMG: you'll get asked about that 22, over and over, by people who think exactly like Q, sitting across from you at med school interviews, or looking at your app in a pile of other apps. And those interviewers who are asking you about that 22 and why you didn't retake aren't going to like your answer. They'll go back to the admissions committee meeting and have to make a case for why you should get a seat at their med school instead of another compelling applicant, in the context of too many compelling URM applicants to accept them all, as well as way more overqualified ORM candidates than seats. Everybody in that room knows how many students in the classes before you are in danger of failing out. Everybody in that room has interviewed and accepted allied health professionals who did well, and some who didn't. Maybe the student affairs folks who help make sure there's funding and support for URM students will be in the room too. At the newer DO schools, maybe interviewing for their 2nd class, they all know how much tuition money they lost by accepting and failing out the poorly qualified students they accepted to fill their first class. Intense meetings, full of very experienced folks, making really hard decisions affecting the lives of the best kids in America and the hopes and dreams of hard working parents.

So you'll apply to a bunch of schools that seem within reach, because of anecdotes on SDN, and you'll get invited to interview because you're URM, and in the interview you'll have nothing compelling to say about why 2 tries at the MCAT didn't get you better than 22; you'll have to say that you weren't willing/able to work for a better score for whatever reasons. And they'll be nice in the interview, maybe even selling you hard because you're URM. You'll spend time worrying if you have the right suit, if you should have made that comment in that one interview, etc. And you'll spend a bunch of money on those interviews, and get excited about those schools, and think you don't have to worry about the less reachy schools on your list. And the interview season will drag on from August into March, with you taking bunches of days off work to travel in 2-3 day chunks. Then you'll start seeing that your more reachy schools like UMinn are taking a really long time to get back to you, and Howard and ATSU-SOMA et al maybe put you on the waitlist or in some "candidate pool". Maybe their student affairs folks call you to keep you on the hook in case their better prepared URM acceptees take other acceptances. And maybe you'll then get a DO acceptance at one of the newer schools, which will give you incredibly mixed feelings because you want to be excited to have a med school acceptance but jeez you really had your hopes on a UMinn or Howard. At this point you'll send off some Carib apps. And you'll be more excited about your waitlist letters than your acceptance letter. And so you'll wait.

Then it'll be May, and you'll start having this overwhelming, suffocating sense that you only have 3 months before med school starts. You could call it a day and start planning a move to your new sketchy DO or Carib school, but those waitlists! You'll call those waitlist schools for updates, send letters of intent, contact student affairs to see if they can help you. Then it's June. Then it's July. Tick tock.

Or you could decide that you'll have a better attitude about the MCAT, and figure out how to get a better score, and be one of those URM students who gets to choose between multiple acceptances from desirable med schools, pretty darn early in the season. My goodness, an experienced nurse with a great GPA and a decent MCAT score and she's URM? Let's get some scholarship money in that acceptance letter! Don't let her get away!

Here's a question: why would older, experienced, seasoned attendings like Q and med students like me take all this time to advise you not to sit on a 22? What motivates us? Are we haters? Please think about it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I don't really mean to encourage or discourage. The fact that you take it as encouragement kind of means you don't really need advice. But rather to go ahead and apply and either prove the logic of my colleagues wrong or right. Fighting logic is perilous, but I understand the allure.

I was thinking the same thing. Someone who is scoring in the A/A- range in courses but with such a low MCAT score after more than one attempt and with significant preparation does not, in my opinion, have a major problem with the English language but a major problem with this type of standardized test. This is not an encouraging sign. An absolute unwillingness as well as stating "impossible" to repeat the MCAT both suggest a very inflexible way of thinking, and I am extremely pessimistic about an applicant's predicted medical school success with this mindset.

Very low scores on the MCAT after lots of preparation and with more than one attempt is a bad sign in my opinion. Almost no one in this category glides through medical school and performs well. There are, of course, one or two encouraging anecdotes and exceptions out there; those give us the warm and fuzzys and the motivation to get through the day.

All of the third and fourth year NBME Clinical exams and some of the basic science shelf exams are standardized. The USMLE is standardized. Board certification exams are standardized. In my own specialty, the recertification standardized exam last year had about a 65% pass rate, and those are all mostly expert test takers. These tests do not get any easier, and they are nothing like nursing recertification exams. I mean this with all due respect, but I feel that being frank is probably more useful for the OP.

Just because a path is technically possible, doesn't always mean it is a good idea. In the end, if nobody can convince you that there are better ways to do things, I hope you're one of those people that limps over the finish line regardless of the amount of pain and carnage caused on the way. Best of luck.

 

[ridethecliche]

Are ethiopians considered URM's?

 

[Quik]

From a 22, there is sooo much room for improvement. As you hopefully have noticed by now, there isn't that much distance between yours and the AAMC median MCAT statistics for successful black applicants. While you have failed twice, are you unwilling to stand back up, change your approach and give it another go? If not, then perhaps this route really isn't for you. Yes it is an appealing and lucrative one, but if you are very realistically knocked down by an otherwise surmountable wall in front of you, then there may be easier routes and the future of this course may very well demise your goals.

Yes, the MCAT is a difficult exam, but there are ways to beat it. I'd recommend either that which you don't want to hear, "retake the MCAT with a different plan of attack" or chose another route like NP or PA. These would likely bode much easier on your family as well.

If you choose the latter, let me offer my advice on this change of approach. From my experience, the absolute best prep material out there is Chad's Videos on coursesaver.com. There is little else to compare to it's efficiency and simplicity in the problem solving approach. The explanations really break the concept down into their elements, so you know exactly what impact doubling mass and doubling radius will have on a system's gravity. For your verbal, I cannot imagine what difficulty being a non-native speaker brings to this section, but the key to success for anybody is practice, practice, practice. This section thwarts the best, until they've practiced enough to notice the patterns of right and wrong answers.

 

[Quik]

Are ethiopians considered URM's?

What do you think?

 

[ridethecliche]

What do you think?

I didn't know... Which is why I was asking.

But thanks for being a smartass.

 

[Quik]

I didn't know... Which is why I was asking.

But thanks for being a smartass.

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings. The answer to your question just seemed too obvious, especially since you're a medical student. I suppose I should have turned the question back to you, asking: What percentage of your medical school classmates are 1. black and ethiopian? 2. Is that a minority?