I am now scared out of my mind!

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by DoctorRx1986, May 6, 2008.

  1. DoctorRx1986

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    I'm an incoming P1 student to Nova Southeastern University College of Pharmacy. After submitting my FAFSA and other financial aid forms a few months ago, I finally viewed my "overall status of financial aid". And, by God, I am scared beyond human ability to comprehend fear.... According to calculations, the ESTIMATED cost of attendance for the entire first year is an exorbitant value of $48,572! Jesus Christ! I was hoping for about $40,000 for the year, since I will also be living on campus...but for some reason, the school considers me out-of-state even though I lived in Florida for six long years. I've been living in the Northeast for under a year and for some reason, NOVA considers me out-of-state. After 4 years of pharmacy education, my debt will be nearly $200,000. At this point, I feel so hopeless and destroyed...I feel that the "bright future" people claim I have is beyond over. What good will it serve me to have a Pharm.D. , make anywhere from $100-120 k per year, and then have a debt that is almost doubt my salary? I very well fear I'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO PAY THAT OFF AND THAT I'LL BE LIVING IN A LITTLE ROOM WITH THE BARE MINIMUM TO SURVIVE ONLY TO WORK AND PAY OFF THAT DEBT :confused::eek::(...What have I done to myself? I've definitely heard of people being $100-150 K in debt, but not almost 200k. You only hear about being $200 K in debt with med school students, and sometimes not even with them because average med school debt is around $140,000. So, I guess that's it...I am doomed. And whoever says that is not an enormous debt is probably unrealistic and doesn't even have a debt close to that.
     
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  3. BlueHens66

    BlueHens66 Class of 2012

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    That $48,000 figure is just an estimate of what an out of state student may need. You could certainly live without taking that much money out in loans depending on many factors (i.e. rent cost, transportation, food, and income from working while in school).

    So let's say you need to take out $48,000 a year and go into debt. You can still get a job after you graduate with a company that will offer loan forgiveness/sign-on bonuses to help you get out of debt. The loan companies are not trying to cripple you with debt because they want you to pay it off little by little over time so they can collect the interest. You will be able to live comfortably with a pharmacist salary while paying your debt overtime.

    I would rather be fresh out of pharamacy school making nearly 100,000/year with $200,000 in debt to pay off than working in my current job making $42,000 a year with little room to increase my pay.
     
  4. medicalCPA

    medicalCPA Actually, it's medicalCPA, PhD now
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    First of all, you need to lay of the excessive bolded uppercase letters. Kind of strenous on the eyes. Second, you are not the only one going into $200k debt. I also am, if that will make you feel better.
    You are a US citizen, I am an international student. You will probably end up with a lower interest rate than I. It may not seem that way to you right now, but you WILL be able to pay off your debt. Calm down.
     
  5. jspwinter

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    Just don't be foolish once you graduate. You can save money but it will be difficult when you're out buying half a million dollar house with 3 cars and such.
     
  6. Pharmpills

    Pharmpills Accepted Pharmacy Student

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    u will just need like 35,000 for nova or so since you are out of state. Second if u work overtime then u can pay it off in a year :thumbup:. It sucks but u will make it back quicker than u think.
     
  7. tellsarah

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    I think almost everyone on this forum can relate.
    The only advice I can give is, join the army (tuition reinbursment) or stop complaining.
    As a pharmacist you will never be poor. You will never be on welfare. Many hardworking Americans will never be in the financial position as a pharmacist

    I suggest writing down 3 things you are thankful for every night and volunteering.
     
  8. AbsoluteEthanol

    AbsoluteEthanol PHARMACY STUD

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    welcome to the club homie, my education will run me roughly 50k per year as well. not a huge deal though, don't fret, no one leaves pharm school without a large amount of loans. im actually pretty shocked that you're THAT surprised by this...
     
  9. zilko

    zilko Curmudgeon

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    Welcome to the club, when I get done, I expect to owe more educational debt than I owe on my house mortgage. So, suck it up DoctorRx, put a cork in that whine, and get over the panic attack. You aren't going for the PharmD just for the money anyway, right? This is what you really want to do with your life, and the money is only a piece of the equation, right? If not, and that was just a line to feed to the interviewers, perhaps you should give up your seat to someone else.

    I'm hoping to work like a madman that first few years after grad to help pay the loans down. My wife has a viable salary as is, so it may not be as bad as I expect, but then again...
    P-)
     
  10. tharper14

    tharper14 P1.5

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    That's why I didn't apply to a private school. Cost of tuition was a VERY important factor in choosing which pharm school I applied to. I expect my pharm school tuition to be no more than $50000 for the 4 years, if that. I'm planning on paying about half of that out of pocket. Also, I went to cc for my pre-reqs so I didn't have to get any loans. I'm going to pharm school to make money, not to be in debt for many years after.
     
  11. jonnyboi303

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    as long as you don't go live the high life immediately after graduation you'll be fine.

    alternative option: marry rich :D
     
  12. rxlynn

    rxlynn Senior Member

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    If you haven't already done so, call or see the financial aid office and discuss with them exactly what you need to do or should have done to get yourself classified as in-state. Perhaps they just need some additional paperwork, or maybe you can be re-classified after the first year. And, if the first person you talk to claims there is absolutely nothing they can do, then keep asking.
     
  13. YapYap6

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    There's always the PHS or military HSCP options to consider. Those are seriously great deals, especially for pharmacists. Doctors, not so much because of the huge pay difference between the civilian and military world.
     
  14. drugdoc

    drugdoc Member

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    $200K for me!
     
  15. LoKoTe

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    I called FInAid at Nova and we're als till considered out-of-state. I called Tracy yesterday and she said they would start looking at the paperwork to change the residency status next week. So hopefully it'll be a lil bit less. Tuition is about 20k per year, everything else depends on what you spend to live and eat.
     
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  17. BlueCrayon

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    No offense meant, but with such a life-changing decision, you might've wanted to consider this before you applied...there are many places with COA much cheaper than that. Public schools (i.e. UB) are around 50K for the entire 4 years, which is a big reason I'm going there. Figure this...200K after all interest is paid might cost you 300K paid back over 15 years would cost you 1666/month. If you take home, say, 75K/year...that's around 6K/month. So around a quarter of your take home pay would go towards school loans for 15 years. My suggestion would be to live modestly and maybe pay 2 or 3K/month into them for a few years to give yourself a head start and save some interest costs.
     
  18. piyi

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    +200K here. The way I see it, I can either have the debt and make ~100k/year, or make ~25K/year for the rest of my life. I'll take the 100k and +200K debt. (Even if it's not 100k, even if it's like 80K, I'd still take it).
     
  19. fiteOFFurDEMONS

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    I'll prolly have less than 50 G's of debt. Not bad for the #2 pharm school :)
    and as for living the high life, i'm already starting to throw around money haha
    i jokingly bought my friend an ice cream because she's doing marine biology cuz we both know there's no money in that :p
     
  20. RXDR2B

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    First off, I agree with what everyone has told you in the above posts. And I am not writing this to bash you but to try and give you some perspective on things.

    DoctorRX1986, you seem very concerned with money and debt, so how was it that you didn't realize the cost of a Doctor of Pharmacy education?? Didn't you look into all this before you went through the process of applications and PCATS and making sure you had the prereqs? I would have to say that is being "unrealistic" if you didn't know what you were getting yourself into. No one is forcing you to continue on to pharm school, if it is that big a concern for you so bare that in mind.

    Second, you need to realize there is such a thing as good debt and bad debt. Good debt is considered educational costs. Bad debt is running up your credit cards and living above your means. I also don't know how old you are but I'm assuming 1986 is your birth year and you're 22 yrs old. You have a life time ahead of you to practice pharmacy at a six figure income and can clearly be free of your school loan debt within 5 to 10 yrs depending on how you manage your lifestyle and income. Has no one sat down with you and ran the numbers to show you?

    If not, think of it simply like this. If you are 22 yrs old, and work for the next 40 years; it will cost you approximately about 2 years of salary to pay off your student loans. The other 38 years of salary is all yours.

    Third point, you need to realize that we are all going to die someday with some sort of debt on our plate. Whether its school loans, a mortgage, a credit card, a car, whatever. So lighten up and don't be so focused and serious on just the money. Don't you want an income that affords you a lifestyle that only 1% -3% of the US population has? Don't you want to look back and say I enjoyed my work and I actually made a difference and helped people? Don't you want to say I accomplished the highest degree of education I could possibly achieve?

    And by the way, I have owned my own company, also done the corporate gig, and made the decision to go back to school fulltime. I was just accepted into pharmacy school one day before my 50th birthday. When I finish I will be looking at debt too. But I will have a way to pay it off and still have a great cash flow I never had before in my life and a Doctor's degree.

    Hope this helps you rethink things.

    RXDR2B
     
  21. dodgingglances

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    If you had gotten into a school right next to your house it would've cost you normally no more than $10k/year! imagine that?! and there ARE people who are lucky enough to have this opportunity. I probably wouldn't even have to get loans for that, I think I would've been able to pay off most of that with my part-time job!!!

    I feel exactly the same way as you... well in some sort. but i have this cheap opportunity to go to a cheap school tho! it would literally cost me about $9k/year if i go to my city school but I'm persuaded to fall to my other school where the tuition + expenses (housing... etc) will cost me about $30k/year!!!! Where's the logic in that?!?!?!?!?
     
  22. DoctorRx1986

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    Hey, thanks for your perspective. In reference to what you said about not knowing the costs, you're not the only one in this thread to have said that...but you guys are absolutely wrong. I absolutely knew that professional education is quite expensive. HOWEVER, the reason I reacted like I did was because apparently, the total cost is much higher than I had previously anticipated/calculated. I used to estimate my COA (cost of attendance) for the entire four years would run anywhere from $100,000-$140,000. So, when I found out it's nearly $50-60 K more, I was in for a shock, as reaching the $200 k figure sounds intimidating. Second of all, I just turned 22 last Friday, and I have never in my life been in any kind of debt. I don't owe any company or individual one penny. So, to go from zero debt to two hundred thousand dollars makes you go over your head in a flash. Fortunately, though, I have found out something positive...an incoming student at the school of my choice has found out that all of us are temporarily considered out-of-state for tuition purposes until the school sorts out our paperwork and reclassifies every student. Therefore, hopefully, when they look at my papers, they'll classify me as in-state and charge me the lower tuition. So, after reading peoples' opinions on this matter and considering the good news I found out about, I am now more at ease.
     
  23. Farcus

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    well i'm sure after graduating you'll pay it off in a few years.
     
  24. Smiling Moon

    Smiling Moon Curious

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    Don't ever change your opinion about debt, though. There's no such thing as "good debt". "Good" is not owing a soul a penny.

    Good luck in school
     
  25. PharmApp2008

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    I'm just starting school this fall also but since I have been in the working world for a few years with just a biology degree, I would say that the cost of not going to school will be much more than the cost of going to school if this is what you really want to do. With a higher salery you not only have more money from day to day but you can afford to take lower loans on things like houses and cars and then you end up saving more money that way also. Where people mess up is if they decide they don't like it and have already shelled out tuition money.
     
  26. b*rizzle

    b*rizzle Master of Useless Info

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    Also remember that you don't have to pay it back all at once. Take out a sweet consolidation loan (assuming that it's the best move for you) and pay it back over 30 years. It's good debt, so don't worry.
     
  27. Smiling Moon

    Smiling Moon Curious

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    Again - there's no such thing as good debt.
     
  28. PharmDstudent

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    It's good relative to compounding credit card debt.
     
  29. Smiling Moon

    Smiling Moon Curious

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    I can appreciate the "relative" part of your statement. But, just because something is less evil than something else does not make it "good". It just makes it less evil.

    Are there no Dave Ramsey fans here?
     
  30. PharmDstudent

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    Dave Ramsey is a psyche booster. Psychologically it makes people feel better when they've gotten one of their debts paid. However, unless they're irresponsible spenders, it makes more sense for them to pay off what gains interest faster even if it's at a slower pace. Basically, if they pay what gains interest faster, then they will save more in the long run instead of just trying to pay off what has the least amount of debt attached to it.
    (http://www.fivecentnickel.com/2005/05/09/dave-ramsey-is-bad-at-math/)
     
  31. Sparda29

    Sparda29 En Taro Adun
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    Calm down, I am going to be $100K in debt just from my Undergraduate. Kinda makes me wish that I went to CUNY or SUNY for my Undergrad but whatever.

    That means that when I'm done with Pharmacy or Medical School, I'll be closer to $300K in debt.

    Still nothing to worry about because if you know how to manage your money, you'll make it fine. Credit card debt is a ****load worse anyway. Any education expenses I make on a credit card, I pay off with student loan money. I take out like $6000 more than what the education actually costs just for this purpose, thus building my credit at the same time.

    Let's say that if you become a Pharmacist, you start out making $130K/year, and you owe $300,000.

    Devote 60% of your salary to paying off loans. You are left with about $52K.

    Put away half of this into savings or high interest yielding accounts. This leaves you with $26K.

    Living off of $26K is not hard, that's the starting pay that NYPD recruits get.

    From my calculations, you'll be doing this for about 4 years. At the hardest, 6 years.

    Thus, in 6 years, you will have paid off the loan, and would have $156,000 + compound interest earned tucked away in a savings account.

    That money you tucked away in savings for the last 6 years, could go for a down payment on a house, or you could treat yourself to a Corvette Z06 or a Porsche 911, or the Nissan GTR, keep thinking about the possibilities.

    Or if you're not into cars, perhaps a nice tuition fund for your kids so that they don't have to go through what you went through.
     
  32. Pharmpills

    Pharmpills Accepted Pharmacy Student

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    Simple solution:
    Work overtime and live at home with parents for a year or better yet if u can combine debts with a wife/husband who is a professional as well and u both pay it off then it should take no more than 2 years. Some of u are insanely bad at math like whoever said 5-10 years lol just control ur spending for 2 years and you will be free for sure.
     
  33. inquirer89

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    Is that the starting pay up in New York?
     
  34. medicalCPA

    medicalCPA Actually, it's medicalCPA, PhD now
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    A nice example, but you forgot to factor taxes into it.
     
  35. Alby

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    Reality Check!!!!! You have to pay taxes (federal and state- depending on the state you work in) and social security on your income... that 130,000 just became 91000- if you are lucky.
     
  36. Alby

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    ooohhhh- you beat me by a minute :D
     
  37. medicalCPA

    medicalCPA Actually, it's medicalCPA, PhD now
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    I am that good. Never mess with an accounting major.
     
  38. Moxxie

    Moxxie Rained out

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    Minor thread-jack, but I was going to point this out too. It makes better sense to snowball payments - tackle those with the highest interest rate first, then pay off the ones with lower interest. Just because paying off that $500 credit card makes you "feel good" doesn't always mean that it's the best choice.

    The good thing about Dave Ramsey, though, is at least he has people consciously focusing on debt and coming up with strategies to pay it off, even if they aren't the most cost-effective strategies.
     
  39. soso809

    soso809 New Member

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    Dang right! We know our stuff :D :laugh:
     
  40. Sparda29

    Sparda29 En Taro Adun
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    Alright, add 4-5 years to the initial calculation. Still, not a big deal. If you're married and have kids by this time, you can cut back on those taxes.

    If you have a good enough accountant, you can get a lot of things written off, provided that your accountant is not gonna charge an arm and a leg for you.

    For the car, change it to a Tesla Roadster. Fully electric car, can still do 0-60 in 4 seconds.
     
  41. soso809

    soso809 New Member

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    Thread jack also. I believe the whole point in paying off the smallest debts first is so that you can take the payments you would normally make on the smaller debt and roll it over and add it to the payments on the larger debts to pay it off faster. imo
     
  42. PharmDstudent

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    Sure... that's how it goes, but it makes no sense. The larger payments are going to build more interest, just by their nature and how interest is calculated based on a percentage, which will cause you to owe more in the end.
    If you want to apply more money to a larger debt, then just apply it to the larger debt from the get-go. How does applying more money to the smaller debt help the larger debt? It doesn't. You're avoiding the problem (the larger debt).

    I posted about this earlier already. Plus, it's "bad math".
     
  43. soso809

    soso809 New Member

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    Just because you try to knock out the smaller debt fast doesn't mean you should completely forget about the larger debt. Now if someone stopped making payments on the larger debt all together then yes I would agree. Very bad money management. Every case is different and everyone has to decide what is best for them in there situation. Everyones debt structure is different. I will be honest and say I don't know who this Ramsey guy is. I don't think I have ever heard of him. Is he kind of like a Bush where everyone just makes fun of him? I will have to google him now :)
     
  44. PharmDstudent

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    One of the only potential benefits of applying more money to the smaller debt is if it's a high interest credit card vs a fixed, lower interest student loan. Most likely, the student loan will carry a larger balance, but it will have a lower interested attached. So basically... the only logical conclusion to this type of payment is to get the credit card down quickly and let the student loan linger.
     

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