I am so confused about pre-med undergrad schools

[masterMood]

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Hi, this is my first time here and i have some questions if you don't mind answering. I am completely confused and disorientated from all the factors for deciding a good undergraduate college, what courses to take, and financial matters/

I am a 17 year old asian american (1st generation Pakistani guy) I live in New York and my stats are as followed:

all honors classes (english, spanish, math, science, history for past 3 years in high school), and so far 3 AP classes (AP European history, AP Calculus AB, and AP US History).
i plan to take 5 AP Classes in my senior year: AP English, AP Spanish, AP Physics, AP Chemistry, and AP Calculus BC

my cumulative gpa is about 3.7/4.0 (about a 92-93) and my class rank is about 16/270 kids

ecs: speech and debate club for 3 years (fresh/soph/jun), key club 3 years, work in my dad's dental office (managing the computer systems, cleaning up etc) for a year, volunteering at the hospital (about 70 hours cumulative work) mainly working at a gift shop and information desk not so much medical experience, local pet shelter for a month, spanish club for two years, tutoring for one year, key club (national association where you volunteer for different activities), cross country skiing, national honor's society, and principal's list for every year (90 average or above)


my sats are a bit low but they are my first time i have taken them (1250: 630 Math, 620 Verbal) and i hope i can get at least a 1350.

my sat IIs are 710 chemistry, 730 math iic, and writing is pending (probably 650 or so

I want to go to a school preferably in New York State and some of the colleges that I am interested in are SUNY Geneseo, SUNY Oswego, NYU, and Emory University in Georgia.


However, I don't think i will be available to afford the private colleges (all of them are at least $20,000 in tuition alone!!!!) because of my odd situation. I don't think I can get any loans, financial aid, etc because my dad is a dentist.

But he isn't a very rich dentist. Well for the past 13 years he has been in practice he has averaged about 80,000 dollars per year. But recently he got a raise and now he gets about 100,000 dollars, putting him into a new tax bracket practically disqualifying from much financial aid. What do I do?!!?!?!? I'm so depressed that I won't get many scholarships or grants because everyone else is so much smarter and competitive.

Can anyone give me some good colleges in New York State and surrounding eastern states that have good pre-med programs that aren't extremely difficult and "weed" you out like Johns Hopkins, Washington University in St. Louis, etc? I might just go the state school system and go to Geneseo?


If you've read this far, I thank you for your patience and kindness.

 

[masterMood]

btw, i noticed that a lot of you have research experience at hospitals and lots of awards, prizes, positions etc while in college.

How are you guys finding all these positions and positions? I want to do a lot of research work during the summers but I can't find out where to start!

 

[rgporter]

There is no need to go to a private college to get into med school. Pick a school you like and that you can afford. Your probably going to have ~$200,000 in loans for med school why start out with another huge loan on top of that?

 

[samurai_lincoln]

Besides, Geneseo is a damn fine school in its own right. I don't see a huge advantage in attending Emory or (particularly) NYU. Purely anecdotal evidence, but the two people from Geneseo at my law school graduated magna cum laude and were brilliant. I can imagine a premed coming out of there would be similarly well prepared.

Search some of the archives on the board... the consensus is that undergrad school reputation takes a back seat to GPA and MCAT by a wide margin.

 

[An Yong]

There are plenty of research internships you can apply for, just look around (st. jude has a pretty nice set up). Also, you can usually get hooked up with a research position by taking some elective courses that focus on a particular area your interested in, and then asking the professor (i.e. at my school, the professors would often teach a elective course related to their research, if you take the course and do well usually the professor is willing to take you in). But really though, don't worry about research right now, get a few college courses under your belt first and take it easy your freshmen year.

 

[masterMood]

thanks for replying so hastily!

i know that you can go to relatively any college in the United States and get into medical school and i like the SUNY system for another reason besides the lucrativeness: they have an early assurance program into medical school which guarantees automatic acceptance into medical school without all of the MCATs, essays, etc and puts you directly into the SUNY medical school.

Generally, students who are in the SUNY undergraduate schools have preference over private school students and that's why I am thinking of going to Geneseo because of all the benefits.

1) Price
2) Strong medical feeder accept (their website says that 90 percent of their applicants into medical school get in, in the past two years), though this could mean that they "weed" out "bad" applicants.
3) Chance of admission into med school without all the hassles
4) Beautiful place

I read this website and I'm amazed at all the feats and accomplishments many of you soon to be doctors have achieved. How did you go about getting into these programs and finding them about?

I intend to have several AP classes in my pocket such as: AP European history, AP US History, AP Calculus AB, AP Calculus BC, AP Physics, AP Chemistry, AP Spanish, and AP English.

I intend to get college credit for AP Spanish, AP European History, and AP US History because i'm not very fond of the language spanish (so many rules and exceptions aaargh) and the history requires too much memorization and heavy duty reading

 

[lane]

if you're interested in Emory, try to get nominated for the Emory Presidential Scholarship by your school (each high school can send 2 kids' names). everyone i know who was nominated for that (myself included) got a pretty nice scholarship, even if you dont get one of the free rides. they're also pretty generous with scholarships and finaid as a whole so apply and see what kind of money they can give you. there are tons of research and clinical opportunities (emory hospital, emory clinic, CDC, american cancer society HQ are all literally across the street) that you can take advantage of...but dont think that going to a school will get you into med school on name recognition alone (as i found out). the pre-meds arent ultra competitive and you'll have a good time in atlanta....and you'll have PLENTY of your fellow new yorkers around. anyway, hit me up with a PM if you have any other questions about emory. you will probably leave with a little debt but you only go to college once and it's worth it IMO.

 

[Sweet Tea]

I intend to get college credit for AP Spanish, AP European History, and AP US History because i'm not very fond of the language spanish (so many rules and exceptions aaargh) and the history requires too much memorization and heavy duty reading

Just FYI, if you're not into heavy duty reading and memorization, then med school isn't for you. That's about all you do for the first 2 years.

That being said, breathe. It sounds like you like SUNY-Geneseo, and that's great. It really doesn't matter where you go to school or what you major in-- just do well in the prereqs, enjoy your major (chances are that if you study something you like, you'll do well), and do ECs that YOU want to do. If they're in the medical/science field, then super. If not, well, still super. Do things you like and are passionate about; it will make for a much more memorable interview and application then having to struggle with describing things you did only to put on your application.

Yes, there are some things you do just to put on your application. If you don't have any kind of medical experience, then you SHOULD do things solely for the purpose of gaining medical experience. If you want to write for the school paper or be involved in a fraternity or the student union or [fill in your choice of the 1000s of college groups here], then do it. Just don't pick your activities based on filling out some checklist for a med school application.

 

[bocai]

My two cents are that it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad ... the most important thing is that you enjoy yourself and do well ... the difference between having the Emory or NYU name on your degree compared to SUNY Geneseo or SUNY Oswego is negligable (neither school is head and shoulders above the others) ... sure Emory is more of a country club than a college, and it does provide a better opportunity to make connections and do primate research, but are those differences worth 80k for those very slim comparative advantages? Having gone there, I think not ... and I'm willing to guess that most med schools would agree with me. The culture of Emory is very, maybe obsessively, focused on pre-med (over 1/4 of my entire class started out as pre-med, and that's not unusual), and while I agree that they are not as competative as other pre-meders, they sure do (on average) have a chip on their collective shoulder ... which doesn't exactly make for the healthiest learning environment.
In the end, it's all about the environment in which you think you'd be most comfortable and excell the most. All that I'm trying to say is don't let the glitz and glamour of these over-priced private schools fool you into thinking that they will make it any easier to get into med school, because the sad truth is that they won't. Feel free to PM me.

 

[Prozach]

Hi Hermit,

I think we are very much alike. I am graduating high school tomorrow up here in Albany, and have decided to go to SUNY Geneseo next year, for many of the same reasons you have decided. I was 15 out of a class of 270 with a GPA almost exactly the same as yours, and a very very similiar AP background (spooky 😉). If you do decide to come to Geneseo, hit me up on AIM (Dr Germ11) and we can meet up, or when you come out I can show you around a little bit after I get shown around myself If you do apply to Geneseo, ABSOLUTELY APPLY to the program Geneseo runs with the New York College of Osteopathic Medicine. It's a 3/4 program (that is, three years are spent at Geneseo, and four at NYCOM) It results in a B.S. in biology from Geneseo and a D.O. from NYCOM after 7 years. The program seems pretty laid back (averages 14 credits/semeseter at Geneseo, though I had about 37 credit hours from AP, as you will probably also have, so I'm averaging significantly less credits per semester, AND a free third year to do whatever I want). The program is a great opportunity, and *non-binding* So if you later decide that you don't wanna do osteopathy or medicine at all, you can leave the program and just spend the typical fourth year at Geneseo. In order to maintain your guarenteed spot in NYCOM you need to maintain a 3.3 GPA and get a 25 MCAT, all very doable things. I also met recently with the two guys who hed up Geneseo's programs, Dr. Robert O'Donnell and Dr. George Briggs. Both are great guys, and have assured me that the education I receive at Geneseo will be more than enough to prepare me for NYCOM. If you want more info (I have a copy of the suggested schedule) get at me on AIM and we can talk!!!! Good luck!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

 

[learss]

Your first plan of action is to get a scholarship book from the library. You sound pretty smart to me, so have faith in yourself. I had lots of friends who found ways to be debt-free after graduating from college. You should also look at the U of MD, because they have a great honors college and various other academic programs. And they also give fabulous scholarships.

I would also recommend looking at private liberal-arts colleges, ie Vassar,Swarthmore, Haverford, Colgate. Also, don't assume anything regarding your dad's income until after you fill out your FAFSA.

Good luck in the process and don't stress too much.

 

[BubbleBobble]

2) Strong medical feeder accept (their website says that 90 percent of their applicants into medical school get in, in the past two years), though this could mean that they "weed" out "bad" applicants.

I just wanted to comment on this. I would be wary of a school that claims that 90% of their applicants get into medical school, because that almost always means that they have an admission committee that will refuse to write you the required committee letter of recommendation if they don't think you'll be a strong applicant.

Essentially, you'll never even get the chance to apply to medical school.

 

[VCMM414]

I would be wary of a school that claims that 90% of their applicants get into medical school, because that almost always means that they have an admission committee that will refuse to write you the required committee letter of recommendation if they don't think you'll be a strong applicant.

I'm curious...can someone cite colleges where this does happen? Can a committee actually refuse to write your letters? SDNers mention this a lot, but I've never came across an actual example. I've heard of committee writing negative evaluation letters though.

The 90% acceptance thing doesn't always have to have a catch, though. My undergrad regularly boasts of a 90%-95% acceptance rate (depending on the year) to med school, and AFAIK the advisor does not ever refuse to write evaluation letters for applicants (our advisor letter is equivalent to committee letters at other colleges). The evaluation letter may be negative... but it will be written nonetheless.

 

[kingcer0x]

i went to high school in oswego, took some classes at oswego state. they were high quality.

oswego and geneseo are really cheap and good educations. SUNY med schools like SUNY grads too, if you qualify as in-state. geneseo is a little more respected and you will face a little more competition there, but i know people from SUNY oswego who have gone to med school and saved lots of $$ in the process.

oh, and tons of peope in the SUNY Upstate med school class come from SUNY Binghamton, and SUNY Buffalo undergrad is a good academically too. Buffalo is a huge research school, and closely tied to the med school i hear.

good luck to you.

 

[masterMood]

hmmm can anyone furthermore elaborate on the "weeding" process at Geneseo? I do concur that they like to improve their stats by removing "bad" candidates from applying through writing negative committee letters etc, but shouldn't the laxness in comparison to private schools such as washington university in st. louis in terms academics (not that i'm saying their educational standards are bad!) easier for a motivated student to get high gpa in suny system?

 

[Xandie]

I'm curious...can someone cite colleges where this does happen? Can a committee actually refuse to write your letters?

This USED to happen at my undergrad (Kalamazoo College), by rumor. Our current advisor won't refuse, exactly, but she will "strongly discourage" and just generally make anyone that she thinks is a bad applicant feel like crap. Plus, she really has no idea what she's talking about.

 

[VCMM414]

I do concur that they like to improve their stats by removing "bad" candidates from applying through writing negative committee letters etc,

If they are willing to write negative evaluation letters, then they are not "padding" their med school admission stats. After all, applicants with negative letters still applied, so they actually LOWER a school's acceptance %.