I can't believe he/she got rejected...

[el indio]

sorry if this has been posted before but i couldnt really find much on it. there are plenty of "i can't believe i got accepted" stories, where a low gpa and low mcat score somehow land that person into a good school. but how about the opposite?

i know one such person. he had a 3.86 gpa as a biophysics and biochem double major from umich and got a 38R on his mcat. and before you ask, he did have good ECs and is not one of those ESS students(eat sleep study). he is a really social and likable dude. im not sure how many schools he applied to but he had 7 or 8 interviews(umich, wayne state, northwestern, harvard's science pathway, stanford, pitt, rochester, not sure about penn) and as far as i know the only schools he got rejected from were the state schools in cal(ucsf,ucsd,ucla) and uwashington and 1 or 2 more. anyway he got waitlisted for umich and wayne and rochester and rejected everywhere else. now that schools are going to start within a few weeks he has essentially given up and will reapply for next year.

i was really shocked that he didnt get in anywhere. its ludicrous come to think about it. a lot of my other premed friends who are far inferior candidates, both in terms of gpa/mcat and personality including one who is just doing it for the status and in his words "make bank", got in. and what adds insult to injury(or just even more injury to injury)is my friend spent all that time and money applying and now has to do it all over again

anyway i was just wondering if anyone else has had this happened to them or someone they know. sorry for the long post and i hope no one got too discouraged readng this

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[mongrel]

Yikes, yah stories like those tend to haunt people on these boards. When did your friend apply?

 

[MDrunner]

Where was he a resident? Michigan tends to like Michigan residents over anyone else...but that sucks!!

 

[theraball]

awfully hard to say without meeting the guy. Does he have a halitosis problem or some other quirk? Does he freeze up during interviews? His stats do sound fantastic; maybe he can write to some of these schools for feedback on improving his app, then he can share it with you and all of us who are curious to know.

 

[Tenacity]

Well, that's just crap for me.

Good luck to him next year.

 

[LizzyM]

At some places, it is pretty hard to get rejected after you interview. Some schools put almost everyone on the waitlist. So, someone who is faced with multiple "rejections after interview" has an interview problem. He'd better get that fixed up before the next round or he's sunk.

 

[voirlesetoiles]

That's shocking. Oh why did I click on this thread.... Did he apply very late or send his secondaries in right at the deadlines? I would pin it on that or a red flag that keeps popping up during interviews... maybe an answer to a common interview question? That stinks, hope he fares much better in this cycle.

 

[el indio]

yeah it was a tough break. i told him it had to have been something with interviews because it would be difficult to flat out turn someone down with those credentials.

so no one knows of similar stories?

 

[neurochic]

good suggestion above: contact the schools for application feedback. some might not reply, but it shouldn't hurt to ask and find out. i think feedback would help, especially if he want's to apply to some of the same schools again. maybe he can talk with his undergrad pre-med advisor...?

 

[paki20]

yeah it was a tough break. i told him it had to have been something with interviews because it would be difficult to flat out turn someone down with those credentials.

so no one knows of similar stories?

his stats are obviously impressive but could it be a problem with something that was written in his LORs???

 

[cleothecat]

Any single BAD LOR will sink the best candidate.

 

[MassTransport]

I think it'd be interesting to hear his take on things. Did he have a good experience at the interviews?

 

[ClockworkDoc]

I didn't get in, my stats are good. It's those pesky LOR's I think. At my school, the committee asks all professors for comments about the applicant and constructs a letter based on their comments. I envy people who get to cherrypick their LOR writers.

 

[ssquared]

I do know of one guy: 3.95 GPA, 38R MCAT who only got into one school (his state school). He interviewed at every top 10 and got waitlisted/rejected at all of them.

I blame it on the fact that he suffers from extreme hubris.

 

[Bacchus]

Did he walk into the interviews with his head held so high he was talking to God and no one else? As LizzyM said above, if he got rejected after or almost all interviews therein lies his problem. He needs to set mock interviewing up ASAP and practice those skills. Tell him to go to career counseling, his pre-med advisor, or a communications professor. They all can help with interviewing skills.

 

[gujuDoc]

There could be several thing that went wrong.

He could have had a bad LOR from a professor who might not have liked him and not have known about it.

His essays might not have been that good. Many intelligent people are very poor writers as I have seen throughout this past summer and last year when reviewing PSes.

He might be poor at interviewing. This seems likely considering it was postinterview rejections.

 

[TheRealMD]

I do know of one guy: 3.95 GPA, 38R MCAT who only got into one school (his state school). He interviewed at every top 10 and got waitlisted/rejected at all of them.

I blame it on the fact that he suffers from extreme hubris.

Facing rejection from all top 10 schools isn't anything to worry about. It's if you apply broadly and get rejected everywhere, there were some issues.

All signs point to their interview. I can't really see LORs sinking an application if you get to pick who writes them. Oh well.

 

[gujuDoc]

I do know of one guy: 3.95 GPA, 38R MCAT who only got into one school (his state school). He interviewed at every top 10 and got waitlisted/rejected at all of them.

I blame it on the fact that he suffers from extreme hubris.

Well also if he was applying to top 10 schools, he might have had the numbers but been competing with people who had better ECs then him, something unique if they were like bubbleMD who had a nontraditional background, and so forth.

 

[ssquared]

Did he walk into the interviews with his head held so high he was talking to God and no one else? As LizzyM said above, if he got rejected after or almost all interviews therein lies his problem. He needs to set mock interviewing up ASAP and practice those skills. Tell him to go to career counseling, his pre-med advisor, or a communications professor. They all can help with interviewing skills.

Oh absolutely. I'm pretty sure he was raised to believe he was God's gift to this green earth.

I actually heard through the grapevine he got off the waitlist at one of those top-10's, but I have yet to verify it. If he did get into Harvard, it would just make me mad, so maybe I'm better of not knowing.

 

[Bacchus]

Oh absolutely. I'm pretty sure he was raised to believe he was God's gift to this green earth.

I actually heard through the grapevine he got off the waitlist at one of those top-10's, but I have yet to verify it. If he did get into Harvard, it would just make me mad, so maybe I'm better of not knowing.

I was referring to the OP. But it applies to you as well.

 

[Karen12345]

I know someone who had a 38 MCAT and 4.0 GPA. Applied to 10 schools (mostly private) very early in the process (June), had decent EC, letters, etc. He got accepted to one school -- a state institution but not in his state of residence. As far as his state schools goes, first he got placed "on hold" and then ... never got interviewed. Strange - I know people with much lower stats who got interviewed there. Anyway, I think that paradoxically, having high MCAT can too hurt your application. I suspect that ADCOMS think, "Oh.... with such high score... he won't come here anyway... he will just block our spot until late in the season only to enroll at an Ivy League" They probably prefer to focus on applicants with less impressive stats that are more likely to choose that particular school as well. That's why I would rather have a slightly above average MCAT.

 

[reine1jb]

is there a chance that maybe the person in question from OP's post was applying MSTP? MD/PhD acceptance is a lot harder to get regardless of stats....if that is the case maybe his research experience wasn't good enough...but usually if you're not granted MD/PhD admission the schools usually consider you for MD only admission....hmmmm maybe this wasn't such a good question oh well i'll ask anyways

 

[TCIrish03]

He must have poor sartorial style.

Consult the "Male interview attire" thread immediately.

 

[el aye]

Anyway, I think that paradoxically, having high MCAT can too hurt your application. I suspect that ADCOMS think, "Oh.... with such high score... he won't come here anyway... he will just block our spot until late in the season only to enroll at an Ivy League" They probably prefer to focus on applicants with less impressive stats that are more likely to choose that particular school as well. That's why I would rather have a slightly above average MCAT.

I was thinking along the same lines of thought. I spoke with a very intelligent guy (he went into derm, not sure if he is still in his residency) who got a 3.88 GPA and 40T on the MCAT, got accepted into "two of the best/most selective US NE schools" but was rejected by "two lesser (yet very highly regarded) schools, both starting with the letter C, both in the state of NY." He ended up going to the University of Toronto for med school.

 

[abeytt03]

These stories are really strange to me. I believe it is theoretically possible, but I just don't tend to believe all these stories.

 

[bwells46]

I have a 3.4 undergrad GPA, 3.7 graduate GPA, 30 MCAT, two master's degrees (Public Health and Business), several publications including one in the New England Journal of Medicine, and years of volunteering in the hospital.

I got 4 interviews, 4 waitlists, and 4 eventual rejections over two application attempts.

 

[maestro1625]

Well he went to UMich... so I'm assuming it's because he came across as a pompous dick with poor knowledge of the game of football.

 

[Law2Doc]

These stories are really strange to me. I believe it is theoretically possible, but I just don't tend to believe all these stories.

Most people in med school can tell you about one or two college superstar classmates who didn't make the cut. There are also a couple on SDN every year. Grades and scores and ECs are important. But bad essays, interviews (esp arrogance), LORs, and poorly thought out notions of why you are going into this field can turn adcoms sour on even the most stellar applicants. Poor choices of schools, too few schools and sending applications too late also sinks a few people. It happens.

 

[Hassler]

I know someone who had a 38 MCAT and 4.0 GPA. Applied to 10 schools (mostly private) very early in the process (June), had decent EC, letters, etc. He got accepted to one school -- a state institution but not in his state of residence. As far as his state schools goes, first he got placed "on hold" and then ... never got interviewed. Strange - I know people with much lower stats who got interviewed there. Anyway, I think that paradoxically, having high MCAT can too hurt your application. I suspect that ADCOMS think, "Oh.... with such high score... he won't come here anyway... he will just block our spot until late in the season only to enroll at an Ivy League" They probably prefer to focus on applicants with less impressive stats that are more likely to choose that particular school as well. That's why I would rather have a slightly above average MCAT.

I don't believe that's the explanation in this case though, because after all, it is HIS state school, so there is a very good chance that he will want to stay in the state (maybe even prefer the state school to other higher ranked schools). I suspect something is wrong with his letters or essays.

 

[postbacker]

I have a 3.4 undergrad GPA, 3.7 graduate GPA, 30 MCAT, two master's degrees (Public Health and Business), several publications including one in the New England Journal of Medicine, and years of volunteering in the hospital.

I got 4 interviews, 4 waitlists, and 4 eventual rejections over two application attempts.

I can believe you did not get in - your GPA is low.

 

[CBG23]

another reason to be stressed out; great...

 

[gujuDoc]

I can believe you did not get in - your GPA is low.

Not for Florida schools. I've seen people get in with lower then that. Same with schools like Albany and NYMC.

I also know that at some Fl. schools they'd look at a Masters GPA if it is higher separately, although that is only if it is hard science or a SMP type of masters.

 

[TCIrish03]

Well he went to UMich... so I'm assuming it's because he came across as a pompous dick with poor knowledge of the game of football.

Ah, you hate the scUM Skunkbears too? I knew I liked your style

 

[gujuDoc]

Most people in med school can tell you about one or two college superstar classmates who didn't make the cut. There are also a couple on SDN every year. Grades and scores and ECs are important. But bad essays, interviews (esp arrogance), LORs, and poorly thought out notions of why you are going into this field can turn adcoms sour on even the most stellar applicants. Poor choices of schools, too few schools and sending applications too late also sinks a few people. It happens.

Yes this is soooooooo true!! There was an adcom member from USF COM's adcom talking at the IMS/SMP info session. Anyhow, when my friend went for her info session date he told them that they had this really stellar applicant who came off as stellar on paper. however, there was something about him that made the adcom member say eww and that this guy was absolutely creepy. The adcom member was trying to drive home the point that a stellar paper application means nothing if the person comes off as a weirdo in person or makes a bad impression at interviews.

 

[gujuDoc]

I was thinking along the same lines of thought. I spoke with a very intelligent guy (he went into derm, not sure if he is still in his residency) who got a 3.88 GPA and 40T on the MCAT, got accepted into "two of the best/most selective US NE schools" but was rejected by "two lesser (yet very highly regarded) schools, both starting with the letter C, both in the state of NY." He ended up going to the University of Toronto for med school.

I highly doubt that was the thinking of Columbia and Cornell. Different schools hav different missions or may be looking for something different. I.e. they may be looking to expand diversity and other factors of the class composition. This process is not as cut and dry as you'd like to think.

 

[Green Apple]

I applied for the 2007 cycle with a 3.56 GPA and a 39P MCAT. I got two interviews which led to two waitlists. It was a disapointing blow.

Several things I did wrong were 1) taking the August MCAT (which meant my application wasn't complete until mid October) 2) finishing my secondaries in mid october. and 3) applying to too few schools. (An ADCOM of Pritzker told me the average student applies to 17 schools)

I'm still hopeful, especially after reading about that person who got "unrejected" today by WVU.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=425643

In the mean time, I'm already working on my secondaries for the 2008 cycle.

 

[postbacker]

Not for Florida schools. I've seen people get in with lower then that. Same with schools like Albany and NYMC.

I also know that at some Fl. schools they'd look at a Masters GPA if it is higher separately, although that is only if it is hard science or a SMP type of masters.

I only said it in keeping with the title of the thread...I can easily believe someone with a 3.4 got rejected, that was my point, which in now way is meant to discount the fact that plenty of people with that low a GPA get accepted...

Anybody with a 3.7+ AND say a 32+ who doesn't get in, ASSUMING they applied broadly and early - now that gets my attention on a thread like this...

 

[littlealex]

I've told this story before, but a girl I knew applied last year, was interviewed at almost every single one of the top 10 medical schools, and was subsequently waitlisted at every one of them.

She's just really awkward and weird, despite her accomplishments she's not much to talk to.

She eventually got off a waitlist at a very good school and plans on attending this fall. But damn, it was close. For the longest time we thought she won't be going anywhere.

 

[sunset823]

Well he went to UMich... so I'm assuming it's because he came across as a pompous dick with poor knowledge of the game of football.

while I should probably take offense to that as a UMich grad, it's actually pretty accurate

Anyway, here are the umich admissions stats:
http://www.careercenter.umich.edu/students/healthmedlaw/med/medappstats.htm

Notice less than 100% acceptance rates for cells on the far top left of the screen...

I don't know if this is just a UMich thing, but it seems there are plenty of great-numbers candidates who don't get in, let alone not getting into big-10...these days, you have to build orphanages in Africa to stand a chance at Harvard, even with a 4.0/40

 

[ilovescrubs]

I have a 3.4 undergrad GPA, 3.7 graduate GPA, 30 MCAT, two master's degrees (Public Health and Business), several publications including one in the New England Journal of Medicine, and years of volunteering in the hospital.

I got 4 interviews, 4 waitlists, and 4 eventual rejections over two application attempts.

Did you spit in the interviewers face or something? Body odor? (jk) What do you think happened? I mean 3.4 isnt crazy high but its not out of the running at all. It seems with those stats you wouldve been accepted somewhere, any reasons?

 

[postbacker]

while I should probably take offense to that as a UMich grad, it's actually pretty accurate

Anyway, here are the umich admissions stats:
http://www.careercenter.umich.edu/students/healthmedlaw/med/medappstats.htm

Notice less than 100% acceptance rates for cells on the far top left of the screen...

I don't know if this is just a UMich thing, but it seems there are plenty of great-numbers candidates who don't get in, let alone not getting into big-10...these days, you have to build orphanages in Africa to stand a chance at Harvard, even with a 4.0/40

Hold on...those stats are extremely impressive (if I understand them)...it appears that U Mich grads in that particular cycle with a minimum combined 3.8+/30+ numbered 77 applicants, and 73 got in at some allo school...pretty impressive stuff...

 

[littlealex]

Yeah but I think the point is that not every 3.9+ and 35+ applicant gets in. In fact, in every category the acceptance rate does not exceed 90%.

That means 1 out of the 10 UMich graduates with a 4.0 and a 37 MCAT does not get in anywhere...
That does not bode well for someone graduating from a random state school.

 

[MassTransport]

Yeah but I think the point is that not every 3.9+ and 35+ applicant gets in. In fact, in every category the acceptance rate does not exceed 90%.

That means 1 out of the 10 UMich graduates with a 4.0 and a 37 MCAT does not get in anywhere...
That does not bode well for someone graduating from a random state school.

All this underscores how stats aren't a guarantee of anything, they just give you more leeway to screw up. Who knows what that 1 guy did? Could've had a panic attack and slapped his interviewer. As long as you stay reasonably within bounds and apply broadly, you should be fine.

 

[Crimson doc]

All that this means is that there are two people out of 20 w/ high BCPM,MCAT, and 2/15 with high Cum,MCAT that didn't get into UMich. MY guess is that those two are the same two people. it doesn't mean they didn't get in anywhere, just not at UMich. I think there gets a point in many ADCOM meetings where these stats don't mean as much as they did early on. It really is more about being a decent person at that point than some person who has figured out how to work the education system of their school. Not to say that those who are rejected are 'bad' people, I'm absolutely sure they are not, its just that maybe they didn't get it across. Take home message, interviews are just as important as anything else.

 

[MassTransport]

All that this means is that there are two people out of 20 w/ high BCPM,MCAT, and 2/15 with high Cum,MCAT that didn't get into UMich. MY guess is that those two are the same two people. it doesn't mean they didn't get in anywhere, just not at UMich. I think there gets a point in many ADCOM meetings where these stats don't mean as much as they did early on. It really is more about being a decent person at that point than some person who has figured out how to work the education system of their school. Not to say that those who are rejected are 'bad' people, I'm absolutely sure they are not, its just that maybe they didn't get it across. Take home message, interviews are just as important as anything else.

I think these stats are for applying UM undergraduates.

 

[sunset823]

All that this means is that there are two people out of 20 w/ high BCPM,MCAT, and 2/15 with high Cum,MCAT that didn't get into UMich. MY guess is that those two are the same two people. it doesn't mean they didn't get in anywhere, just not at UMich. I think there gets a point in many ADCOM meetings where these stats don't mean as much as they did early on. It really is more about being a decent person at that point than some person who has figured out how to work the education system of their school. Not to say that those who are rejected are 'bad' people, I'm absolutely sure they are not, its just that maybe they didn't get it across. Take home message, interviews are just as important as anything else.

Actually, no, this website shows stats for people applying FROM UMich to any medical school...which means that those 2/20 or 2/15 were not accepted anywhere they applied...

take-home message is that everything's not in the numbers; it may just be that these people had extreme hubris and only applied top 10, but I doubt it; I've had friends who are Phi Beta Kappa grads who only ended up accepted at their state schools, with good personality and such...point is, be humble in this process, there are no guarantees

 

[Crimson doc]

I guess I didn't look at the charts very carefully, my mistake... I still think that there is more to getting in than just numbers though.

 

[Karen12345]

I don't believe that's the explanation in this case though, because after all, it is HIS state school, so there is a very good chance that he will want to stay in the state (maybe even prefer the state school to other higher ranked schools). I suspect something is wrong with his letters or essays.

I don't know about his essays, but his letters were very strong without a doubt. He was a chemistry major, but scored very well on his verbal so I suspect his personal statement shouldn't be bad. I really think he was rejected because his MCAT was too high. He just wasn't a safe bet for the school, even though I know he would go there had they accepted him, unless of course another school would offer him a nice scholarship, which was possible and his state school knew that. Again, I really think that high numbers can hurt. A lot in this process depends on luck too.

 

[smeagol]

I guess I didn't look at the charts very carefully, my mistake... I still think that there is more to getting in than just numbers though.

Looks like it.

How on earth did someone with a sub-20 MCAT and sub-2.6 GPA get into edit:medschool?

 

[smeagol]

It's also interesting that a 3.9+ GPA from UMich only seems to help if you have a low MCAT. Otherwise, it's worse than having a 3.8-3.89 GPA. Weird eh?