I can't get a definitive answer; will anesthesiologists have significant pay cut

[jwk]

Okay, so apparently you STILL can't answer my simple question. If an AA and CRNA at this hospital work the same amount of hours and have equal experience, will they get paid equally? Very simple question. Yes or no please.

We all understand the concept of making different amounts of money for working different amounts of hours/different times (nights, weekends, call, etc). The only reason we're interested in what you are saying is because you initially made a statement that implied that AAs were getting paid less than CRNAs at this hospital as a matter of title, not because they worked less hours or had less experience.

And yes, despite how 'young' you may think I am, I do understand that different people can negotiate different contracts, but we're talking on average here.

Jeez, Matty, you're a friggin student - you really do NOT know exactly what you're talking about, and really rude to boot.

The group that aneftp is referring to (and I'm talking generically, not specifically) very likely utilizes their CRNA's differently than their AA's. I would be willing to bet that those CRNA's take call at night without the anesthesiologist. It's poor practice IMHO, since it would be nice if EVERY patient had an anesthesiologist involved with their care, but many groups choose to abdicate that practice on nights, weekends, and holidays. I can somewhat understand the need in very small groups, but a group of more than just a few MD's should be having one available 24/7.

The other thing aneftp is correct about is that groups pay different employees differently. We pay different salaries for those who take call, those who work nights, doubles, three 12's, etc. All those people may have identical experience, but if they have a different work arrangement, they may all be paid differently. We also pay our part-time and locum tenens people in a totally different way than our full-timers.

Aneftp is also correct about supervision ratios. If I remember correctly, both Florida and North Carolina have changed to 1:4 with AA's in the last year or so. They were previously 1:2, which provides some financial issues with some groups. The 1:2 ratio was used as groups get used to working with AA's, and the CRNA's of course loved it for a time. It held us back in those states, but they are now hiring AA's in greater numbers in more locations as those ratios have relaxed. Groups that bill for "medical direction" now can use any combination of AA's and CRNA's in the maximum allowable 1:4 ratio. If there is a financial dis-incentive to use AA's, groups are likely to pay them differently than their CRNA's because of the way they can be utilized. Thankfully, those restrictions are going away.

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[Matty44]

The salaries that are really out of order are the CRNAs. I'm down in Florida and most CRNA "command" at least $150K (w2) or $200K (1099). AA's even get $120K and up.

Well, he was not implying anything related to when or how much AAs worked with his original comment, and I'm just trying to get clarification if there is equal pay for equal work amongst AAs and CRNAs at this hospital he refers to.

 

[aneftp]

Okay, so apparently you STILL can't answer my simple question. If an AA and CRNA at this hospital work the same amount of hours and have equal experience, will they get paid equally? Very simple question. Yes or no please.

We all understand the concept of making different amounts of money for working different amounts of hours/different times (nights, weekends, call, etc). The only reason we're interested in what you are saying is because you initially made a statement that implied that AAs were getting paid less than CRNAs at this hospital as a matter of title, not because they worked less hours or had less experience.

And yes, despite how 'young' you may think I am, I do understand that different people can negotiate different contracts, but we're talking on average here.

Well I can't directly answer your question about my brother-in-law's group since that's the way they pay their employees. He says the AA's in his group are primarily women with kids and they only want to work 7am-3pm so the pay issue hasn't come up. They CRNAs do work more hours and nights and weekends so that's the reason for the pay differential.

I got an email from my friend in DC and he is hospital employee based anesthesiologist (read not private). He does have AA's and says CRNA and AA's get paid around $160K and both work nights and weekends. So that answers your question.

Good luck with everything. There are advantages and disadvatages of working as a W2 as a hospital employee vs. as a W2 employee for a private group. You'll figure it out when you are applying for jobs in the future.

 

[Matty44]

Thanks aneftp. I was never trying to be rude, I just felt like you kept ignoring my question by responding with comments about different hour and times worked, when your original post implied some kind of inherent pay disparity between midlevels. That was all I was trying to understand.

 

[aneftp]

Thanks aneftp. I was never trying to be rude, I just felt like you kept ignoring my question by responding with comments about different hour and times worked, when your original post implied some kind of inherent pay disparity between midlevels. That was all I was trying to understand.

No problem. I was working most of the day and sometimes my thoughts are off the wall. I had emailed my friend up in DC earlier in the day and got the salary that they pay the AAs and CRNAs. I had only know what my brother in law's group paid the AAs and CRNAs.

It's news to me. I have been out of the loop with AA salaries. I have been bouncing back and forth from California to Florida the past 3 years. In California, I do all my own cases. There are much fewer CRNAs in California. In Florida it's almost 4 to 1 supervision of CRNAs where I work.

When I started in 2004 as an anesthesia attending, the AAs were getting paid $80K and the CRNAs were getting $130K. Now they are both getting paid $160K. That's in Washington DC area where my friend works.