I cracked my first neck today...on my husband. I heard it crack and freaked out!! He thought that I thought I killed him...he laughed for like 10 mintues straight!!!
I cracked my first neck today...on my husband. I heard it crack and freaked out!! He thought that I thought I killed him...he laughed for like 10 mintues straight!!!
Here is a 2010 review article in a journal on manipulation, by chiropractic researchers. It concludes "Spinal manipulation/mobilization is effective in adults for: acute, subacute, and chronic low back pain; migraine and cervicogenic headache; cervicogenic dizziness" and "thoracic manipulation/mobilization is effective for acute/subacute neck pain". However, it also states that evidence is inconclusive for a number of other treatments, including "cervical manipulation/mobilization alone for neck pain of any duration, and for manipulation/mobilization for mid back pain".How effect is this for back neck pain?
Edit: On topic, if you localize well enough, you really shouldn't need that much rotation or force. For example, I've had a neck click back into place several times just by approaching the barrier while I was localizing. I usually don't need to go much beyond ~45 degrees rotation or sidebending for C2-7.
Example from yesterday: A friend had a C5 or 6 that was FRS right, so it was out of place to begin with.
I sidebend indirect (right) at the segment around 45 degrees, and apply some traction. I then rotate the segment direct (left) about his thorax's vertical axis to again about 45 degrees to find the barrier. Without any thrust, I heard a click, set his head back down and rechecked. The dysfunctional segment was still present, so I repeated the above procedure, heard another click, and rechecked again. This time the segment was no longer dysfunctional. He commented that he felt much better.
As far as "click back into place", I suppose the easiest analogy is cracking your knuckles, although it's not perfect. You have a finger joint that doesn't flex as much as it should, you apply a force, hear a pop, and now your finger joint has a larger range of motion.
We're told "No" in lab. I think the popping sound adds to the fanfare and contributes to a placebo effect, honestly. I even do it myself when I'm HVLA'd by friends. I equate the "pop" with a successful technique and filter out all the other things that happened before the pop: stretching of fascia, muscle and tendons/ligaments.Out of place, or not moving as it should?
So is the goal to produce a popping sound? Is that where the benefits come from?
A little of both. In this case, that joint did not bend to the left much, and the vertebra was rotated slightly to the right while he was relaxed looking forward. "Out" is informal language.Out of place, or not moving as it should?
No, although it's often coincidental. That is why I rechecked the motion of my friend's neck after I heard the first noise to see if the segment was fixed. The benefit is from moving the joint back into a position where it has its full range of motion, and stretching/relaxing the related soft tissue. In tough cases, a good amount of soft tissue work is needed. Most of the docs I have shadowed spent probably >80% of their treatment time on soft tissue.So is the goal to produce a popping sound? Is that where the benefits come from?
A little of both. In this case, that joint did not bend to the left much, and the vertebra was rotated slightly to the right while he was relaxed looking forward. "Out" is informal language.
No, although it's often coincidental. That is why I rechecked the motion of my friend's neck after I heard the first noise to see if the segment was fixed. The benefit is from moving the joint back into a position where it has its full range of motion, and stretching/relaxing the related soft tissue. In tough cases, a good amount of soft tissue work is needed. Most of the docs I have shadowed spent probably >80% of their treatment time on soft tissue.
Do you happen to have any articles on the subject? I'd be interested in reading them.the bone-out-of-place concept is an antiquated one
As I said above, I agree with this. If you hear a pop before a thrust, it does seem to be useful as a notification that "something" happened and the targeted joint should be rechecked.Is that audible pop really necessary? Most of the available papers say no
The conclusions indicate that most cavitations were on the targeted side (93.5%) and in the targeted segment (71.7%), which seems expected. Was there something else I am missing?Where do all those cracks come from anyway?
For N=3, this paper said the average time was 68 minutes before they got 50% of the pops again. This is probably the most interesting paper you linked. It could mean that cavitations are unrelated to actual function and treatment, like we said above. I suppose another explanation is that, since they only treated the lumbar spine and nothing else, other dysfunctions in the body could cause the lumbar to compensate again. The paper only says that the subjects were "made to sit or stand" between treatments. All 3 subjects were treated on the same side, however, so I'm not sure how likely all 3 subjects would have other dysfunctions to cause the same lumbar dysfunction again.And how soon after I get cracked can I be cracked again?
My school gave a presentation on cervical HVLA safety before we started it. They put the risk at 1 in 400k to 3.8M, I assume per treatment. They compared this to a 1 in 17k risk of death per year involving NSAIDs, and a 1 in 6k risk of death per year from a car crash.
Their sources were:
Spine. 27(1):49-55, January 1, 2002
Stroke. 2005;36:1575-1580
NEJM June 17, 1999; 340(24): 1888-99
www.cdc.gov/nchs under NVSS: Deaths, Injuries 2002
U.S. Census
Another article from Neurologist in 2008 puts the cervical manipulation risk at 1.3 in 100k (=1 in 77k) per treatment.
Source: Neurologist. 2008 Jan;14(1):66-73.
I'd venture to say an OMM specialist wouldn't have HVLA'd this woman's neck.The only thing about OMM that I'm worried about is HVLA. When I was shadowing there was a patient that came in with an arterial dissection. She had gone to a chiropractor the night before and then in the morning her husband couldn't wake her up. Husband called 911 and they brought her in. She went to neurosurgery pretty quickly. Apparently she had a really low chance of survival at that point. Never heard how it turned out.
From what the D.O. ER doc said, it's a known complication and the dissection was likely caused by her visit to the chiropractor the night before.
Hopefully that risk doesn't exist for HVLA if it's done right, otherwise I'm going to be a nervous wreck for that part of OMM and never use it again outside of that class.
I'd venture to say an OMM specialist wouldn't have HVLA'd this woman's neck.
Nope.
I can't say for certain. I doubt it was a case of a 1 in (X,)XXX,XXX accident though. There was probably underlying pathology that predisposed the patient. Could a physician have not screened properly? Sure. Same for the chiro. But I'm hoping the extensive medical knowledge of the DO would have stopped a dangerous manipulation.How do you know that? OMM specialists don't perform HVLA on the cervical spine?
Whiskey, do we know what symptoms this woman presented to the chiropractor with?
I can't say for certain. I doubt it was a case of a 1 in (X,)XXX,XXX accident though. There was probably underlying pathology that predisposed the patient. Could a physician have not screened properly? Sure. Same for the chiro. But I'm hoping the extensive medical knowledge of the DO would have stopped a dangerous manipulation.
Just to let everyone know, chiropractic isn't equivalent to PT and DO manipulation. They don't use clinical prediction rules and manipulate everyone based on apparent segmental restriction and myospasm. About 3/4 are glorified massage therapists with xray machines who will manipulate regardless of medical necessity (they attended straight chiropractic programs) based on this analysis, the other 1/4 are called mixers because they practice like naturopaths with more emphasis on diagnosis and limited scope primary care. So take comments from chiropractors with a big heaping of suspicion.
I cracked my first neck today...on my husband. I heard it crack and freaked out!! He thought that I thought I killed him...he laughed for like 10 mintues straight!!!
Hahaha. Last weekend I had to bribe my husband to let me do HVLA on his neck as well. It took an hour of convincing and he ended up with a head massage, hand massages and dinner for letting me fix his neck (not a bad deal, right!?!?).
He kept guarding in the set up so I finally did soft tissue until he wasn't paying attention.. then POP! probably 8 loud cracks. He freaked out and immediately checked to make sure he could move his legs.... baby.
I believe his exact words were "if you paralyze me, it may put a strain on our marriage"
Um yeah, it would take much more than "massage" to bribe my husband.... Ahem of course it's a moot point since he's 700 miles away so not convenient for practice ;(
Grow up.