I don't see anything wrong with eating white rice?

[Jemshads]

I'm chinese and been eating rice since i was born. i don't think white rice makes you fat in a negative way. maybe white rice is not for everybody's diet plan list. but i eat it almost everyday and still carry out my abs..it is the media that misleading white rice ..?

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[Poetic Silence]

I don't like rice... At all. It's like eating crumbs.

 

[DoctwoB]

I'm chinese and been eating rice since i was born. i don't think white rice makes you fat in a negative way. maybe white rice is not for everybody's diet plan list. but i eat it almost everyday and still carry out my abs..it is the media that misleading white rice ..?

Cool story bro.

 

[Chimpanzee]

I'm chinese and been eating rice since i was born. i don't think white rice makes you fat in a negative way. maybe white rice is not for everybody's diet plan list. but i eat it almost everyday and still carry out my abs..it is the media that misleading white rice ..?

Maybe it's an asian thang... I can't have white rice and stay in shape. Not even brown rice.

 

[zenman]

I've lived in Bangladesh and Thailand. I've yet to see a fat Bangladeshi unless they were rich. The rest of the population has to get off their butts and work/exercise all day long. I used to almost throw up whenever I visited the states and had to eat at a buffet with all the hogs crowding around.

 

[ur2l8]

White rice doesn't cause obesity. Twinkies don't cause obesity. Pure sugar doesn't cause obesity. Over consumption of calories is what causes fat weight gain. As long as your calories in </= to your calories burned, you will lose/maintain weight.

 

[PetMySausage]

The latest research seems to indicate that white rice is just as bad as white flour for the body. There is a definite benefit to eating rice as a whole grain.

 

[jetta86s]

Yes you can get fat eating white or brown rice. It just like any other carbohydrate rich food that you eat. It also has to do with your metabolism as well. I don't see anything wrong with eating white rich. It's just another issue of exercise and proper diet.

 

[cdmguy]

White rice doesn't cause obesity. Twinkies don't cause obesity. Pure sugar doesn't cause obesity. Over consumption of calories is what causes fat weight gain. As long as your calories in </= to your calories burned, you will lose/maintain weight.

Concentrated starches are bad for two reasons, first they don't have enough fiber to slow absorption and allow the body to self regulate intake. Fiber is also necessary for good bowel transit times. Second the glucose surge increases tryptophan update and provides a strong anti depressant effect that is addictive. This is why depressed people binge on them. If you don't stop it the body will eat the starch until mood is stable, regardless of glucose need. So in a nutshell you can't self regulate intake on them.

Traditional asian diets include a lot of vegetables along with the grains which balances out the fiber. Chopsticks instead of forks slow intake further. They also have thin body frames with smaller stomachs so the effect from starch isn't as much as would a stockier person.

The calories in/calories out thing is a total myth and has been debunked in research. NHANES surveys show even children have completely lost the ability to self regulate intake. Excitotoxins like aspartame and hydrogenated vegetable protein also overstimulate the brain so intake control is impaired. Restaurants also manipulate food cues to stimulate intake as much as possible (supersizing etc). If you can't regulate intake over eating is the natural consequence. Don't forget about easy access of foods at store checkout isles and the constant advertising on TV. Calorie counting and portion control is a very unnatural way to feed human beings.

 

[Pharmavixen]

Great post cdm guy

As one of the older posters around here (48), I've noticed a shift in the role of food in our culture since I was a kid. Food has become much more central, kids and adults alike surrounded by tasty treats everywhere they go. For instance, there didn't used to be food courts in malls because you ate at home and generally could get through a couple hours shopping without a snack. People didn't used to buy pop as part of their regular diet - in the 70s, if you saw somebody buying a case of pop, they were having a party.

It's harder to listen to one's hunger/satiety when surrounded by the constant clamour of tasty treats being advertised at you, or present everywhere, in airports, train stations, malls, roadsides, etc.

We evolved in an environment where we went hungry sometimes. But people have been conditioned to panic if they get slightly peckish, and rush to stuff their faces.

The rise of bottled water is symptomatic of this phenomenon IMV. There didn't used to be any such thing as bottled water as a commercial advertised product. Now there's people all over the place sucking back on water bottles like overgrown babies, taken in by the bottled water industry's falsehood that we require 8 glasses of water per day for health, instead of listening to our bodies and drinking when we're thirsty. I've had people say to me, "If you wait til you're thirsty, it's too late." Too late for what? I'm going to go hypernatremic and lapse into acute renal failure steps from the water cooler?

PS: I'm a skinny person and in school I had lots of skinny Asian friends. And we'd frequently go to Chinatown and fill up on lots of rice, spicy noodles, seafoods, and veggies. I think you're sort of right about chopsticks having a moderating effect on intake, though there are some folks who bring the bowl up to their mouths and hoover that rice pretty effectively with chopsticks.

 

[cdmguy]

Great post cdm guy

Thanks. There actually was a study that showed that just thinking about food has the same effect on the brain as actually eating it so it's little wonder that seeing and smelling food is going to trigger insulin release and stimulate appetite. That's the reason you can smell french fries outside the McDonalds restaurant and why they have giant blow ups of the burgers on the menu placards-they want customers to come to the counter with as big an appetite as possible.

You make a good point about people needing to learn to wait. We have appetites for water for a reason. With food research shows that if you don't wait long enough to build up an appetite you'll undereat. Now fat people may think this is a good thing but nutritionally it isn't because it means you'll also have a lower appetite for vegetables and end up deficient in many important nutrients. Taking daily multivitamins won't solve this either.

As for asians, I think much of it has to do with their thin frames minimizing the effect of starch on their bodies. This is not to say they are immune from the other effects. They still will get constipated and have poor bacterial flora if they don't get enough fiber which will cause diseases such as their high rate of cancer of the digestive tract but they won't suffer the huge insulin spikes that stocky people get.

 

[lee9786]

Concentrated starches are bad for two reasons, first they don't have enough fiber to slow absorption and allow the body to self regulate intake. Fiber is also necessary for good bowel transit times. Second the glucose surge increases tryptophan update and provides a strong anti depressant effect that is addictive. This is why depressed people binge on them. If you don't stop it the body will eat the starch until mood is stable, regardless of glucose need. So in a nutshell you can't self regulate intake on them.

Traditional asian diets include a lot of vegetables along with the grains which balances out the fiber. Chopsticks instead of forks slow intake further. They also have thin body frames with smaller stomachs so the effect from starch isn't as much as would a stockier person.

The calories in/calories out thing is a total myth and has been debunked in research. NHANES surveys show even children have completely lost the ability to self regulate intake. Excitotoxins like aspartame and hydrogenated vegetable protein also overstimulate the brain so intake control is impaired. Restaurants also manipulate food cues to stimulate intake as much as possible (supersizing etc). If you can't regulate intake over eating is the natural consequence. Don't forget about easy access of foods at store checkout isles and the constant advertising on TV. Calorie counting and portion control is a very unnatural way to feed human beings.

It's pretty well established that Calories (a unit of energy) is ultimately what it comes down to. The obesity epidemic is highly associated with consumption of sugar (HFCS), but it's due to the empty calories not the glycemic index like many are suggesting.

Bottom line is people are consuming too much energy. So it stores as fat.. 3500 calories +1 pound of body fat.

Sure all the poisons we consume like Aspartame and MSG aren't helping as they have shown to increase consumption, but the bottom line is the energy balance and always has been.

Fat is just our bodies amazing design to store energy. Americans have too much stored energy. The standard macro nutrient composition 60% carb, 20-30% fat, 12-15% protein is healthy diet for the nondiseased individual.

As was demonstrated, there are plenty of Asian folk that do not have the obesity problems Americans but eat a lot of white rice. This is because they are maintaining energy balance.

There is so much misinformation being sold to the public right now it is disturbing in the nutrition industry. It's such a shame there isn't greater regulation in who can disseminate nutrition advice. Everyone in their mom thinks they are a nutrition expert. Dietetics is a very poorly regulated industry. It's why I didn't stay in that field.

 

[Lactobacillus]

I'm chinese and been eating rice since i was born. i don't think white rice makes you fat in a negative way. maybe white rice is not for everybody's diet plan list. but i eat it almost everyday and still carry out my abs..it is the media that misleading white rice ..?

Fiber

 

[facetguy]

It's pretty well established that Calories (a unit of energy) is ultimately what it comes down to. The obesity epidemic is highly associated with consumption of sugar (HFCS), but it's due to the empty calories not the glycemic index like many are suggesting.

Bottom line is people are consuming too much energy. So it stores as fat.. 3500 calories +1 pound of body fat.

Sure all the poisons we consume like Aspartame and MSG aren't helping as they have shown to increase consumption, but the bottom line is the energy balance and always has been.

Fat is just our bodies amazing design to store energy. Americans have too much stored energy. The standard macro nutrient composition 60% carb, 20-30% fat, 12-15% protein is healthy diet for the nondiseased individual.

As was demonstrated, there are plenty of Asian folk that do not have the obesity problems Americans but eat a lot of white rice. This is because they are maintaining energy balance.

There is so much misinformation being sold to the public right now it is disturbing in the nutrition industry. It's such a shame there isn't greater regulation in who can disseminate nutrition advice. Everyone in their mom thinks they are a nutrition expert. Dietetics is a very poorly regulated industry. It's why I didn't stay in that field.

Way oversimplified. And I guess you missed the Ludwig study published last week.

 

[cdmguy]

lee,

I have to disagree with you. It seems your postulate that the main driver for appetite is calories this is totally false. If it were true then there wouldn't be research showing that children can precisely regulate vitamin D intake if they are deficient. If it were just about calories then they wouldn't have that ability. The human race also wouldn't have survived because appetite wouldn't be able to get people to the food they needed for their bodies to work right. Think of how many nutrients are essential and conditionally essential now think about the evolutionary consequences of creating nutrient deficiencies in the reproductive fitness of a species.

Modern food changes are playing havoc with human homeostatic mechanism. Take agriculture. When Asians started farming rice they ended up with deficiencies, their growth slowed and they became shorter. We see this in Mexicans too. Now correct the deficiencies and their kids sprout up to the full height potential.

Humans can compensate to a degree but the necessity of a homeostatic mechanism to get them to essential foods is a primary driver of evolution-in any animal, not just us. We aren't plants.

We know people aren't regulating nutrient intake anymore. Glossing over this is a mistake.

One reason dietetics has failed to stop the obesity epidemic is because they ignore this and try to make everyone fit averages that ignore individuality.

 

[Lactobacillus]

lee,

I have to disagree with you. It seems your postulate that the main driver for appetite is calories this is totally false. If it were true then there wouldn't be research showing that children can precisely regulate vitamin D intake if they are deficient. If it were just about calories then they wouldn't have that ability. The human race also wouldn't have survived because appetite wouldn't be able to get people to the food they needed for their bodies to work right. Think of how many nutrients are essential and conditionally essential now think about the evolutionary consequences of creating nutrient deficiencies in the reproductive fitness of a species.

Modern food changes are playing havoc with human homeostatic mechanism. Take agriculture. When Asians started farming rice they ended up with deficiencies, their growth slowed and they became shorter. We see this in Mexicans too. Now correct the deficiencies and their kids sprout up to the full height potential.

Humans can compensate to a degree but the necessity of a homeostatic mechanism to get them to essential foods is a primary driver of evolution-in any animal, not just us. We aren't plants.

We know people aren't regulating nutrient intake anymore. Glossing over this is a mistake.

One reason dietetics has failed to stop the obesity epidemic is because they ignore this and try to make everyone fit averages that ignore individuality.

Even though I agree with almost everything you said, the obesity epidemic is a dynamic problem. It's not just dietetics failing (although the organization really pisses me off) to stop it, government regulations and healthcare restrictions don't help either. Additionally, many people remain unmotivated to alter their lifestyle. I say this as a dietetic intern currently working in a pediatric obesity/diabetes clinic.

 

[cdmguy]

Even though I agree with almost everything you said, the obesity epidemic is a dynamic problem. It's not just dietetics failing (although the organization really pisses me off) to stop it, government regulations and healthcare restrictions don't help either. Additionally, many people remain unmotivated to alter their lifestyle. I say this as a dietetic intern currently working in a pediatric obesity/diabetes clinic.

Dietetics is secondary health care. The big drivers of this have been the public nutrition messages (four food groups, pyramid, etc). The obesity and diabetes spike supposedly started when the guidelines were changed to push grains and low fat diets under the premise of reducing cardiovascular disease. The grains recommendation didn't differentiate between whole grains and refined so this made the public more prone to diabetes and weight gain from excess insulin.

Forget the idea that the main driver behind the obesity epidemic is a lack of willpower. This is just an excuse. Fat people routinely fail after working hard on exercise programs and diet restriction and any gains aren't sustainable. Just ask Oprah Winfrey.

 

[mehc012]

taken in by the bottled water industry's falsehood that we require 8 glasses of water per day for health, instead of listening to our bodies and drinking when we're thirsty

That 8 glasses thing isn't from with the bottled water companies, at least not that I recall. I remember learning it in elementary school (I remember because I have ALWAYS hated drinking water). I wouldn't lump it in with the obesity/overeating issues here. In fact, a lot of people are typically dehydrated.
Personally, I don't really get thirsty. I have to force myself to remember to drink water, or I end up sluggish. When I was younger I used to get lightheaded or faint in the summer pretty often cuz I'd just forget to drink (also my town's water was so bad it was sometimes brown, and reeked of chlorine). I have to specifically make myself drink water for sports events (it's amazing...practically doubles my energy), and it's nice to have a reference number because I HAVE accidentally overhydrated, and it was one of the most miserable experiences of my life. That experience also made me appreciate drinks like Gatorade, which I used to think were ridiculous and unnecessary. They're still mostly unnecessary, but I can see their merit in certain situations now.

 

[Fai]

I have no idea what you're talking about OP. I'm in China (last day) for a month and I've literally ate nothing but rice rice rice. I've lost a good few pounds, but I suppose it also depends on portion. I have one small rice-bowl full two times a day (our breakfast is toast).

I'm in Chengdu now and when I was in Bifengxia I've noticed my appetite decreased a lot and I get filled up quicker. Im surrounded by nothing but mountains and I have yet to see a fat local lol

 

[cdmguy]

Early protein deficiency symptoms?

http://www.merckmanuals.com/profess...rnutrition/protein-energy_undernutrition.html

 

[Fai]

Early protein deficiency symptoms?

http://www.merckmanuals.com/profess...rnutrition/protein-energy_undernutrition.html

...I stand corrected.

And I hope not.

 

[cdmguy]

That's the reason average Chinese are shorter than more developed countries-their bodies adapt to suboptimal protein by slowing cellular growth rate. It's basic chemistry, fewer reagent = less product.

The best analysis I've read for optimal diet is that we're omnivorous leaf eaters that get essential supplemental nutrients from animal foods. Basically we were once like chimpanzees eating lots of leaves (alpha linoleic acid) with attached bugs (animal food) which gave us nutrients like B12 and taurine. Leaving the forest led to taking up fishing which provided the more concentrated omega 3 needed for larger brains and allowed more rapid evolution. The more you abandon these essentials the more deficiencies you'll develop.

Grains have only been around a paltry 16,000 years so they are problematic in large amounts for most individuals. Milled grains cause thiamine deficiency if it isn't added and whole grains contain phytates which inhibit mineral absorption at that meal. Grains are also deficient in vitamins due to not having germinated yet. So don't believe the hype from the grain industry that just because they have fiber they are some kind of super food. Eaten selectively they aren't horrible and would be roughly equivalent to the tubers that chimps eat minus the vitamin C (potatoes) but indiscriminately they are junk food that makes you fat and sick. This is the reason grains don't taste good by themselves and always have condiments added to them on menus to mask their low nutrient density.

 

[Fai]

That's the reason average Chinese are shorter than more developed countries-their bodies adapt to suboptimal protein by slowing cellular growth rate. It's basic chemistry, fewer reagent = less product.

Does make perfect sense indeed. I just went to a pharmacy an hour ago and their shelves are stacked with food supplements. After eating rice all the time I strongly believe that I feel a bit weaker. Eat nothing but rice two times a day with bread being the exception for a month and wore out faster...

They also advertise milk drinks here for calcium so I wonder if they are taking vitamins and drinking these milk drinks... Why are they still malnourished?


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[cdmguy]

I'm surprised that milk would be a major food item considering that lactose intolerance predominates among asians (90%). On the other hand they do fall for food superstitions like eating lots of endangered animal parts to cure disease so it really isn't that weird.

Intestinal bacteria are critical for vitamin production and candidiasis resistance (yeast). Normally they need indigestible fiber from vegetables but the milk would give them a source of nutrition (albeit smelly).

If these chinese aren't eating enough fish/fish oil they are likely getting low levels of omega 3 which would make them prone to inflammatory disorders. Ditto alpha linoleic acid from green vegetables (kale, collard greens, walnuts).

I would expect pretty high rates of diabetes and insulin resistance from the starch as well.

Check out traditional Okinawan diets sometime, they are much healthier.

 

[Fai]

I'm surprised that milk would be a major food item considering that lactose intolerance predominates among asians (90%). On the other hand they do fall for food superstitions like eating lots of endangered animal parts to cure disease so it really isn't that weird.

Intestinal bacteria are critical for vitamin production and candidiasis resistance (yeast). Normally they need indigestible fiber from vegetables but the milk would give them a source of nutrition (albeit smelly).

If these chinese aren't eating enough fish/fish oil they are likely getting low levels of omega 3. Ditto alpha linoleic acid from green vegetables (kale, collard greens, walnuts).

I would expect pretty high rates of diabetes and insulin resistance from the starch as well.

Check out traditional Okinawan diets sometime, they are much healthier.

Wow, you're seriously knowledgable about this stuff. Thank you for the info!

Yeah fish isn't big here in China. It's mostly chicken and pork and other... Exotique meats (Pig's feet). However, they do mix vegetables with nearly everything they eat as well as meat but rice is eaten the most or from the Chinese people in my group anyway. Wherever you go, they offer a huge bowl of rice.

They have veggies like cauliflower, corn, lotus root and some strange bean-like nut that looks like a deformed beet.. Broccoli and lettus and cabbage are also big here too.

But I do have a question, I'm in the Sichuan province and they are known for spicy food (ever had spicy chicken feet? it's not bad!). So, with peppers and other spicies wouldn't their metabolism be stellar and thus also the reason for their usually petite stature?


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[cdmguy]

>Wow, you're seriously knowledgable about this stuff. Thank you for the info!

You're welcome Fai.

>Yeah fish isn't big here in China. It's mostly chicken and pork and other... Exotique meats (Pig's feet). However, they do mix vegetables with nearly everything they eat as well as meat but rice is eaten the most or from the Chinese people in my group anyway. Wherever you go, they offer a huge bowl of rice.

China is a huge country with a poor population so I suspect the reason they don't eat much fish is because it would cost so much to transport. I'm on a strict budget myself and limit myself to molecularly distilled fish oil capsules which has the advantage of being uncontaminated with mercury and cheap.

>They have veggies like cauliflower, corn, lotus root and some strange bean-like nut that looks like a deformed beet.. Broccoli and lettus and cabbage are also big here too.

It's best not to consider starchy vegetables in the same class as nonstarchy vegetables (leafy). When I say that people need vegetables I'm talking about nonstarchy with lots of leaves and deep coloration. If you get away from that you have to rely more on vitamins (b complex) to make up the difference.

>But I do have a question, I'm in the Sichuan province and they are known for spicy food (ever had spicy chicken feet? it's not bad!). So, with peppers and other spicies wouldn't their metabolism be stellar and thus also the reason for their usually petite stature?

I'm not certain that it would. More likely it is genetic and the pepper consumption is just coincidental. Many peppers that increase metabolism also increase inflammation (chili, cayenne) which worsens weight gain. Mexicans eat lots of peppers and are not particularly known for a slim figure. This isn't to say that all peppers are bad, non-inflammatory peppers are usually packed with nutrients if they are colorful. I suspect that what is going on is that these Chinese are dulling their taste buds with the peppers which decreases their intake. We know that in the elderly when their sense of taste decreases they eat less because the food is less appealing. Maybe they just have impaired tastebuds from all the stimulation.

 

[YetAnotherPre]

All the research I have seen on this seems to indicate that white rice is right up there with white bread in terms of how bad it is for you.

 

[Pharmavixen]

That 8 glasses thing isn't from with the bottled water companies, at least not that I recall. I remember learning it in elementary school (I remember because I have ALWAYS hated drinking water).

My main point is that the 8 glasses of water recommendation is not evidence-based.

Eight glasses of water a day an 'urban myth.'

The Mayo Clinic provides further clarity:

Everyone has heard the advice, "Drink eight 8-ounce glasses of water a day." That's about 1.9 liters, which isn't that different from the Institute of Medicine recommendations. Although the "8 by 8" rule isn't supported by hard evidence, it remains popular because it's easy to remember. Just keep in mind that the rule should be reframed as: "Drink at least eight 8-ounce glasses of fluid a day," because all fluids count toward the daily total.

And there was this study by the Journal of Comparative, Regulative and Integrative Physiology:

Despite the seemingly ubiquitous admonition to “drink at least eight 8-oz glasses of water a day” (with an accompanying reminder that beverages containing caffeine and alcohol do not count), rigorous proof for this counsel appears to be lacking....Despite a comprehensive search of the literature (see SEARCH STRATEGY, end of article), I have not been able to find an article where 8 × 8 is recommended on the basis of solid scientific evidence.

And to clarify, the 8 x 8 strategy did not originate in the bottled water industry, but they aggressively promoted it in order to sell more water. Some of you would remember all the spam faxes from Crystal Springs and Glacier Water.

I agree that some people forget to drink enough and find themselves sluggish and headachy. But these people are ignoring their thirst. The non-evidence-based exhortation to drink water excessively and overeating both are symptomatic of a more global problem in our culture, where we don't listen to our physiological cues, instead following external commands to eat and drink. So we overeat and overdrink. Unlike overeating, the drinking of too much water is in most cases physiologically innocuous, leading at worst to peeing more. But it's two facets of the same problem IMV.

 

[Pharmavixen]

But I do have a question, I'm in the Sichuan province and they are known for spicy food (ever had spicy chicken feet? it's not bad!). So, with peppers and other spicies wouldn't their metabolism be stellar and thus also the reason for their usually petite stature?

I admire the Chinese ability to create tasty dishes from a wide variety of challenging food sources, like pigs' feet. My culture, European (mostly), used to eat pigs' feet and all sorts of offal, but we've gotten away from that. Affluence makes people wasteful.

I agree with cdm guy: chilies don't make you thin. Another example are southern Asians, like India or Pakistan, who have a tendency to gain weight and develop type 2 diabetes. And they eat lots of chilies.

 

[cdmguy]

I completely agree Pharmavixen. That's the problem with one size fits all guidelines in general, not just for water but for vitamins, minerals, etc. What if you're spending the day outside in the summer? Winter? Had some bad chinese food? Guidelines don't account for body frames, biochemical individuality and food quality variations. However when the entire nutrition system is build around one size fits all guidelines then something like eight glasses of water was bound to come up.

The idea of appetites is that the brain has osmotic sensors that tell people when and how much to intake. When those don't work we have a problem. Sensors exist for all essential substances, water included. Lack of these sensors would mean that people would have insufficient ability to adapt to changing environments-a major handicap which would mean certain death for homo sapiens in the past.