I failed the 2nd year; can I match at a low tier program?

[devildoc2]

OK so I have to retake the 2nd year of med school (failed pharmacology, pathology, and pathophysiology).

Assuming that I can make good grades in clinicals and get an above average score on Step I, do I have a remote shot at a low tier surgical residency? Somewhere out in the middle of Alaska if need be.

P.S. I do have one publication, but its not surgery related.

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[Celiac Plexus]

First off, I am sorry to hear of your academic difficulties. Fortunately you have been given the chance to repeat the year. Be thankful for that. Where I went to medical school, you probably would not have been given that chance.

Second, take some pressure off of yourself. Forget about surgery for the time being (or any residency plans for that matter). Focus on just doing well in your classes. If you don't at least pass them this time around then you won't even graduate medical school. Relax, focus, and don't worry about anything else but kicking ass in your classes.

Third, try to identify the reason/s for your poor academic performance. If there were outside factors that hampered your ability to perform well, address them immediately. Clear everything else away before the next year starts so that you can focus solely on your academics.

Again, do not concern yourself at this time with your chances to match in any field. This will put more pressure on yourself, and would not be helpful. If you need some positive pressure type motivation, just know that the better you do this year, the better your chances will be to match in any field.

I feel for you. But don't worry about anything but doing the best in your classes. What''s done is done,... just focus on the present and do your best.

Best of luck.

 

[fourthyear]

Yes, focus on how to improve your study skills and test performance. You may not realize it, but you will need these skills in residency too. We take a test every year - ABSITE, as well as surgery boards after residency. You MUST learn to be able to read even when you are tired from work and must figure out what works for you in study and test taking skills b/c you will still need to perform well on exams during and after residency.

I passed all my med school classes and USMLE first time through, but did not have great scores by any means, much lower than most surgery residents matching these days. I'm a 2nd year resident now and having trouble "keeping up with the competition" in terms of doing well enough compared to my peers on the ABSITE every year, despite feeling that I study quite a bit.

Second year med school isn't much fun compared to clinical rotations, I know, but you don't realize how much time you truly do have those 1st two years of med school to focus on studying only - no clinical responsibilities, just reading and studying. If you are already failing three classes in your second year of med school, you have more to worry about than just matching - you have to find ways to improve so that you can learn enough to do well throughout residency too.

I'm not trying to scare you and I realize you may have personal issues that interferred with your schedule this year, but just want you and everyone out there in similar situations to realize that the game is not over after match, you still need to find ways to study more effectively or you'll continue to struggle throughout residency. You can do it. I wish you the best.

 

[devildoc2]

update: so I did retake hte 2nd year of med school and passed all my courses. I had some family issues that interfered with my coursework the year before but I got that straightened out.

I took Step I and got a 225.

I have gotten passes with no honors in all of my rotations thus far, but I have not done surgery yet. Lets assume that I get a pass in that one with no honors.

Suppose I apply to every single community/non-academic program in the country. I'm talking like 150 programs or something like that.

How many of them woudl give me interviews? Maybe 20?

What if I go to 20 interviews, have a great interview at all of them, and rank all of them on my ROL.

What do you think my chances of matching are?

 

[Blade28]

Tough for us to answer this, you know.

And even if someone posted that you'd be unlikely to match, would that stop you from applying? Or change your plans?

 

[boston]

update: so I did retake hte 2nd year of med school and passed all my courses. I had some family issues that interfered with my coursework the year before but I got that straightened out.

I took Step I and got a 225.

I have gotten passes with no honors in all of my rotations thus far, but I have not done surgery yet. Lets assume that I get a pass in that one with no honors.

Suppose I apply to every single community/non-academic program in the country. I'm talking like 150 programs or something like that.

How many of them woudl give me interviews? Maybe 20?

What if I go to 20 interviews, have a great interview at all of them, and rank all of them on my ROL.

What do you think my chances of matching are?

Like blade is saying, if your heart is truly set on surgery and it does sound like it is, then I would advise you not focus on percentages or chances. There are no hard and fast rules. No one has a magic answer. If someone posted that you have no chance, they would be lying. Program directors and residency selection committees are made up of human beings too, not computers that use some mathematical formula to make the rank list. Focus on doing everything in your power to achieve your goals. You will never know unless you try. If you don't try, you may be forever haunted by regret or "what-ifs." That is how I felt about surgery when I was applying.

First, believe in your heart of hearts that you have all that it takes to become a good surgeon (i.e. dedication, integrity, and humility) and that you will benefit and truly change the lives of your future patients. If you have this inner belief and take this as a truth, it will be easier to convince others come interview time.

Second, it is important to think through your approach to explaining your setback second year and how you came out stronger from enduring adversity. Be prepared to address this during interviews or in your personal statement. Do not make excuses, just explain the facts. I would seek one or two mentors to advise you regarding this delicate issue and the application process itself. In general this should not be your chairman or letter writers, unless you feel you can fully confide in them without altering their opinion of you.

Third, do everything in your power to maximize your chances from this point forward. Doing above average on Step I was a step in the right direction. But, third year is not over for you. Do some soul-searching and analyze why you are only getting passes. Is it the shelf, is it the subjective clinical evaluations? While not honoring surgery doesn't rule you out (I didn't honor it), it can certainly help. Do not settle for a pass and identify what changes you need to make. I am happy to help if you want to PM me.

I would argue you should aim to take Step II early 4th year and rock it, since it will help to diminish the biggest weakness in your application, i.e. question of academic ability.

I think applying to all 150 programs is unnecessary and expensive. This is coming from someone neurotic enough to apply to 59 programs and schedule 44 interviews, although I could only make 28. In hindsight, even this was excessive (although I just wanted to be sure and spared no expense). I would estimate getting 12-15 interviews would be safe bet. The marginal benefit you get from each additional interview is minimal.

Bottom line: I don't want to lie to you. It will be a tough road -- not just the application process, but residency itself. But you should all strive for our dreams -- and if you fail, so be it, but at least you went down swinging and can look back without regrets. Hope this helps...