I feel so bad for each and every one of you.

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by axelz165, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. It looks like we're comparing orange to apple. I know many pharmacists did quit and become house wives. But all of them had to be away from their family and paid off their student loans first before they could quit.
     
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  3. chemistpharmd

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    But you still have a job, right?
     
  4. I'm P1 student. I'm trying to get an intern job but so far, no luck. I want to find a job along West Coast in 3 years, the closer to the NorCal, where all my family and friends are, the better. Will see...
     
  5. stoichiometrist

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    A lot of pharmacists would kill to have a job that is 1 hour from their city.
     
    #54 stoichiometrist, Jan 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  6. Melazine

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    What PhD program are you speaking of? Most PhD I know are making a lot more than 60K, so please tell me more. I am considering a PhD whenever I get my loans paid off... PS. The friend wanted a job in the same city as she does have been unempolyeed for over a year, and I wish I'm only 1 hour away from my city....
     
  7. chemistpharmd

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    PhD in Science majors like Chemistry, the median last year for PhD in chemistry was 70k.
    If you think by getting a PhD you can secure a job in the city that you are living you are wrong.
    I know most of my friends in Pharmacy got a job last year before their graduation in the city that they wanted. I think those people that cannot get a job with PharmD, have a low GPA or no experience. They did not try and now they are blaming saturation.
     
  8. I agree with chemistpharmd , this reason is often overlooked but still true.
     
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  9. BC_89

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    Your last sentence intrigued me. Do you honestly believe saturation does not exist? I’m not even speaking of retail, I’m talking about ALL pharmacy positions (retail / industrial / pharmaceutical academia / inpatient - fellowshipped - chemo/ambulatory always/“anything requiring a residency).

    I agree with saturation every other grad should still get a job (expanding to floaters and prn with part time jobs though not full-timers). At the rate 4+ years from now that will not and CANNOT be the case. Despite this and not focusing in one geographical area (active duty so I work all regions both over seas and continental), I will repeat: Do you believe the experienced and high GPAers are immuned to saturation (OR) that saturation simply doesn’t exist?
     
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  10. Melazine

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    From your previous post, it sounded as you were comparing PhD graduates with PharmD graduates, but it seems like you were really comparing PharmD graduates with PhD candidates? which isn't a fair comparison in my opinion.

    I have to say I sort of agree with you on the last part, but only to certain degree. It's natural the competitive students will find jobs quicker than those who are on the lazier side. However, being assertive, smart, and competitive cannot guarentee jobs in this field (I'm sure it's true in some other fields as well). Luckily, the saturation may be minimum in your area :)), it is definitely serious in many parts of the country. :(
     
  11. stoichiometrist

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    Everyone in the Hunger Games had to be extremely competitive as their life was dependent on being so. Still, there could be only one winner. They could only hope that the odds were in their favor.
     
  12. steveysmith54

    steveysmith54 Member

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    1.Just FYI, I can say with certainty that 99.99999999% of jobs will not ask you for your GPA.
    2. I am gona assume that most your friends were not looking for jobs in Los Angeles, Orange County, SF, NY.
     
  13. headortail

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    Yep... because let me tell you, from personal experience many grads are unemployed if they live in LA/OC/SF, including residency-trained pharmacists (who want to remain in their field). I thought the NYC outlook was more favorable (went to school in NY and as far as I'm aware most of my classmates from NYC had jobs within 6 months of graduating). So...

    1) If you live in a big metro, with LA/Orange County and Bay area being the ones I'm familiar with, you had better be VERY, VERY good (do decently in school, do very well during rotation, your preceptors tell you you're one of their best students etc) to get in the more competitive areas (aka non-retail). If you don't think that you can be this type of student/future pharmacist, then your chance of finding a non-retail job is slim. If you know that you're just the average student (typically by choice), and you're ok with just getting a 6-figure job after graduation, any job, then you know what you signed up for.

    If you don't think you can compete at the highest level, and would hate to spend your days dealing with customers, corporate metrics, and insurance, please consider another field. Remember that in pharmacy your salary starts out great, but you will have generally a 150-200k loans on average, AND your salary will plateau. Other fields like engineering, public policy, other healthcare (PA, NP, even RN etc) start out (sometimes much) lower, but they have a lot more opportunities for career growth. Pharmacy... you're either a staff pharmacist (doesn't matter whether you're the "ICU pharmacist" rounding in the ICU or the centralized IV pharmacist in the basement, your (hourly) pay is typically the same as far as I'm aware of). This is the community hospital setting; please correct me if your salary structure is different as I've never worked at a large academic center. Your career growth can only consist of going into a managerial role and be salaried, and that's not for everyone. These salaried roles are typically the LOWEST paid people in the pharmacy on a hourly rate because they put in so many hours if they want to do their jobs well.

    PLUS if you're in the other fields, your loans will not be 150-200k like pharmacy. Keep that in mind.

    2) If you're ok with living the rural life/living in "second" cities, then you might be able to find non-retail jobs for the next 10-20 years or so (depending on where, of course). There are still people getting inpatient/amb care/managed care jobs without residencies in these areas. If you have a lot of connection, it's probably different, but not everyone does (I, for one, have none). And even then, people cannot create jobs out of thin air, so even with connections you may still not get your ideal job right away.

    Ultimately, pursuing pharmacy has led me to where I am now, and my life would have turned out drastically different if I went down another career path. Do I regret it? No, because I'm very happy right now (check back with me in another 20 years when the robots have replaced all of us :p), but had I known and done my research about how pharmacy will be this saturated/learned more about the advancement opportunities in other careers without a large amount of loans involved, I likely would have gone another route like engineering or something IT related.
     
    #62 headortail, Jan 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  14. qwerty89

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    *Full disclosure I am a PGY-3 diagnostic-radiology resident and have no skin in the game*

    Oversaturation will kill any field. It affects everyone. Even those with jobs already will find that their working conditions will deteriorate and job security diminish. It affected (and still does) my field of radiology, although thankfully the job market has improved. Especially if you want to work in places like Kentucky Body Radiologist w Light IR No Night or Weekend Call Job Opening in Louisville, Kentucky - American College of Radiology Career Center

    However Radiation Oncology is not so lucky. Rapid expansion of residency spots (now about 200 a year) has made it a poor job market. Check out this thread.

    FUTURE RESIDENT, DO NOT BECOME A RADIATION ONCOLOGIST!!!

    With posts like:

    "UPDATE: I was a little concerned that maybe I was posting second hand information inaccurately so I emailed my friends the other day.

    Still no luck in Alabama (and from another post above it sounds like there is at least one other person desperate for a job in Alabama).

    Interestingly enough my friend who is trying to get to NC had interviewed with a well established private practice in a medium sized but booming city called Greensboro to staff a satellite 45 minutes away in dead/dying old mill town called Eden, NC. He is not interested in academics and actually doesn’t mind living in and caring for people in rural economically depressed areas so thought it would be a “win/win” since the others in the group didn’t seem to like going there. Long story short UNC acquired the hospital and everybody thought they would honor the private practice’s service agreement but they terminated it and they are now posting on the career site for a non-tenure track, “fixed term” position paying $230,000-$300,000!

    Clinical Faculty

    I guess they know they can get some desperate resident to work in a rural town 2 hours away from UNC's actual campus with no long-term contract cheaper than they can staff the place with the private group that has been there forever.

    I honestly think the saddest part is that the UNC physician will dread working there, probably commute an hour and curse the town, and leave as soon as he can while my buddy would have lived right in the middle of the town and given back to the community outside of work while likely staying there until the day he retired.

    At least UNC saved a few bucks (yeah right $600,000 ... $200,000-$250,000 is already the norm!)"

    and

    "Where I trained in a semi-desirable location they had high faculty turnover so there were jobs available every year. As a trainee the faculty were constantly telling me how miserable they were and how they were looking for new jobs. Despite this, the departmental leadership offered a fellowship to all of the graduating residents who they liked. If the resident got a real offer somewhere else in academics, only then would they give an offer more than a fellowship. I guarantee you that as soon as the job market tightens to the point where no academic jobs are available, they'll have plenty of fellows. I was involved at the administrative level there as a resident. One of the admin staff involved with the residency program was also involved with faculty recruiting. She told me that rad onc had the lowest priority because they knew the job market is bad. Contracts were non-negotiable. They had no problem filling the jobs so why bother offering anything?

    This was a few years ago now. We're still graduating way too many residents. Things just get worse every year. I agree with the other posters. Things aren't horrible *for now*, but they're getting bad. The next few years will be even worse with the 200 graduating residents per year and non-expanding job market.

    You guys talk about "the south" being okay. You already heard about Alabama. I have another friend who desired strongly to be anywhere within another southern state to be close to family with their small children. They're in the next state over in a small city several hours away because nothing was available in that particular state.

    As for academic satellite expansion jobs--there are plenty of these. This is basically the only part of our job market that is expanding. They put you 100% clinical in a satellite for lousy pay because you have no other option. Promotion pathway/pay raise still has to do with academic productivity. How are you supposed to be productive academically out at a satellite working 100% clinical with no resources? The problem is though that the private groups also are offering poor salaries nowadays. $200-$300k are common even in undesirable parts of the south now from both academics and private practice. It's a race to the bottom."
     
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  15. PharmDgirl7

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    Ok well majority of us have to pay the government back including the compound interest they charge ;)
     
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  17. BigBoss

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    Thank you Captain Obvious. My point is you shouldn’t borrow if you can’t pay it back.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. CaNvWa farm

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    I think now when you don't know what to do then you'll go for pharmacy.
     
  19. CaNvWa farm

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    The more the government lets people borrow, the higher the tuition is. American education is a scam.
     

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