I have always wanted to be a cardiothoracic surgeon. Should I still consider?

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GomerPyle

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Hey guys - MS1 here. I'm trying to figure out what to do so I can find the right research projects. I have always been fascinated with CT surgery, yet I was told by an orthopedic surgeon that I shouldn't consider it because it's a dying field. I do know about interventional cardiology but I am not sure when this will take over and if I should really expect that. Are medical students still seriously considering CT surgery? Should I just start looking for something else?
 
Hey guys - MS1 here. I'm trying to figure out what to do so I can find the right research projects. I have always been fascinated with CT surgery, yet I was told by an orthopedic surgeon that I shouldn't consider it because it's a dying field. I do know about interventional cardiology but I am not sure when this will take over and if I should really expect that. Are medical students still seriously considering CT surgery? Should I just start looking for something else?
There are still some incredibly smart and capable people going into CT surgery, so it's not exactly dying like nuclear medicine is. I think there will always be some need for them. If you can get into an integrated program you can shave off at least one year of residency (plus two years of research in residency to get a fellowship), so I would say that is your best bet.
 
Hey guys - MS1 here. I'm trying to figure out what to do so I can find the right research projects. I have always been fascinated with CT surgery, yet I was told by an orthopedic surgeon that I shouldn't consider it because it's a dying field. I do know about interventional cardiology but I am not sure when this will take over and if I should really expect that. Are medical students still seriously considering CT surgery? Should I just start looking for something else?

Far from a dying field. Medical students and general surgery residents are still "seriously" considering CT surg.

There is talk about all CT fellowships becoming integrated in the near future. Not sure how accurate this is, or what the timeline is. I bring this up in case you decide to go ten surg--> CT surg, research it ahead of time.

CT fellowships are not super competitive. CT integrated residencies are fairly competitive...
 
Thank you for all the replies. Maybe I just don't understand the various surgeries performed in CT, but I had thought most of it is coronary bypass and valve replacements, both of which have good chances of being taken over by interventional cardiologists. Again, I am a first year medical student and could be definitely wrong. Does anyone know why CT surgeons, despite the technological advancements, will still be needed in 10+ years?
 
Thank you for all the replies. Maybe I just don't understand the various surgeries performed in CT, but I had thought most of it is coronary bypass and valve replacements, both of which have good chances of being taken over by interventional cardiologists. Again, I am a first year medical student and could be definitely wrong. Does anyone know why CT surgeons, despite the technological advancements, will still be needed in 10+ years?


Here's procedures done during a CT fellowship at one program, just to give you an idea


http://www.surg.umn.edu/prod/groups/med/@pub/@med/@surg/documents/policy/med_policy_419240.pdf
 
Great - thank you guys so much.Just wasn't sure what was implied by this whole "dying field" rumor.
 
Thank you for all the replies. Maybe I just don't understand the various surgeries performed in CT, but I had thought most of it is coronary bypass and valve replacements, both of which have good chances of being taken over by interventional cardiologists. Again, I am a first year medical student and could be definitely wrong. Does anyone know why CT surgeons, despite the technological advancements, will still be needed in 10+ years?
Stents are turning out to be not nearly as effective as we'd hoped, and they're really just a patch on a long-term issue. There's also lung resections, pneumonectomies, ascending and thoracic aortic repairs and replacements, diaphragmatic and hiatal hernia repairs, and much more. It isn't all CABGs and valves bro.
 
Stents are turning out to be not nearly as effective as we'd hoped, and they're really just a patch on a long-term issue. There's also lung resections, pneumonectomies, ascending and thoracic aortic repairs and replacements, diaphragmatic and hiatal hernia repairs, and much more. It isn't all CABGs and valves bro.

And even CABGs and valves are not exactly becoming extinct.
 
Interesting - thank you for all the input everyone!
 
Adult cardiac surgery is definitely changing, and endovascular techniques are becoming more popular. However, in response to these pressures, the field is evolving quickly with the development of progressively more specialized surgeons who are developing innovative operations with less morbidity.

Wholeheartedly posted a sample caselog, which is helpful, but it doesn't really capture the variety that there is!

"Myocardial revasculatrization" is not always an on-pump arrested CABG, though it very often is. There's also MIDCAB, OPCAB (for select patients), total arterial revascularization, bilateral mammaries, sequential grafting, hybrid (MIDCAB: LIMA-LAD followed by PCI to the remaining vessels), etc.

"Acquired valvular heart" includes AVR, aortic valve repair, minimally-invasive AVR, MVreplacement, robotic mitral surgery, port-access mitral surgery, mitral valve repair (complex leaflet work and chordal work), tricuspid repair/replacement, pulmonic valve replacement.

Then there's "Aorta," which might consist of thoracoabdominal aortic aneurysms, descending thoracic aortic aneurysms, aortic root surgery including valve sparing aortic root replacement, aortic dissections, arch aneurysms, debranching operations, TEVAR, etc.

Under "Other" there's the entire field of heart failure surgery, which includes: ECMO, LVAD, BiVAD, TAH, septal myectomy for HCM, heart transplant, ventricular aneurysms, etc, and arrhythmia surgery, which includes: bilateral VATS modified maze, "Cut-and-Sew" Cox maze, etc.

I think most people will say that general thoracic surgery is doing very well as a field. There is not much that is competing with the congenital heart surgeons, though there aren't many jobs around to begin with.

Keep an open mind to a variety of fields. If you really think it's for you, then you might want to find a faculty mentor at your institution.
 
Adult cardiac surgery is definitely changing, and endovascular techniques are becoming more popular. However, in response to these pressures, the field is evolving quickly with the development of progressively more specialized surgeons who are developing innovative operations with less morbidity.

Wholeheartedly posted a sample caselog, which is helpful, but it doesn't really capture the variety that there is!

"Myocardial revasculatrization" is not always an on-pump arrested CABG, though it very often is. There's also MIDCAB, OPCAB (for select patients), total arterial revascularization, bilateral mammaries, sequential grafting, hybrid (MIDCAB: LIMA-LAD followed by PCI to the remaining vessels), etc.

"Acquired valvular heart" includes AVR, aortic valve repair, minimally-invasive AVR, MVreplacement, robotic mitral surgery, port-access mitral surgery, mitral valve repair (complex leaflet work and chordal work), tricuspid repair/replacement, pulmonic valve replacement.

Then there's "Aorta," which might consist of thoracoabdominal aortic aneurysms, descending thoracic aortic aneurysms, aortic root surgery including valve sparing aortic root replacement, aortic dissections, arch aneurysms, debranching operations, TEVAR, etc.

Under "Other" there's the entire field of heart failure surgery, which includes: ECMO, LVAD, BiVAD, TAH, septal myectomy for HCM, heart transplant, ventricular aneurysms, etc, and arrhythmia surgery, which includes: bilateral VATS modified maze, "Cut-and-Sew" Cox maze, etc.

I think most people will say that general thoracic surgery is doing very well as a field. There is not much that is competing with the congenital heart surgeons, though there aren't many jobs around to begin with.

Keep an open mind to a variety of fields. If you really think it's for you, then you might want to find a faculty mentor at your institution.
The fellowship this year supposedly got a bit more competitive for cardiac positions (one of our residents with 2 years of research failed to match) which may also represent an upswing.

Plus, triple vessel disease, cabg is still superior outcomes...
 
The fellowship this year supposedly got a bit more competitive for cardiac positions (one of our residents with 2 years of research failed to match) which may also represent an upswing.

Plus, triple vessel disease, cabg is still superior outcomes...

Plus diabetes
Plus left main
Plus reduced ejection fraction

👍

With ACOs, there may actually be a shift away from complex PCI towards CABG on account of the cost effectiveness of CABG: Less frequent Major Adverse Cardiac and Cerebrovascular Events including revascularization, improved survival. There is some of that happening in the existing HMOs.

Didn't realize the fellowship got so competitive.

I think that reflects the number of programs switching to I6. Some of my friends are freakin out about the fellowship match - some traditional powerhouse programs have dropped out of the fellowship match...

There used to be scores of spaces open. This would be a monumental change.

There are 24 integrated cardiothoracic surgery programs that exist. I'm not sure how many have closed their traditional fellowship.
 
It's called a dying field, because many of their patients are so sick that they just die anyway - irrespective of the intervention.

But I love CT surgeons... they make nasty sternal infections that then have to be debrided and closed with muscle flaps by Plastics 🙂.
 
What are the interactions and division of responsibilities like between cardiologists and CT surgeons? Do they work together in managing care for a patient or is it more like the cardiologist just passes on patients to the CT surgeons?

I really enjoy the intellectual challenges of diagnosing a patient and figuring out what is wrong. Does the CT surgeon get to do any of that? Other than making decisions about surgical techniques, what other clinical decisions do CT surgeons make?
 
A surgeon of any kind has to decide whether to operate, which is a more complicated matter in many situations than it may seem before you've had some experience. There's thought to be considered in how you're going to operate - at a basic level, consider open vs. endo/thoracoscopic - and when, what exposures to use, what tools will best get the job done, etc.

Not to mention whatever happens to the patient while recovering from your surgery is likely yours to diagnose and manage, be it pneumonia, an MI, a leak, and so on. Often it will be as vague as, "this guy's had a fever for 3 days and nothing obviously wrong on his physical exam, what do we need to worry about?"
 
A surgeon of any kind has to decide whether to operate, which is a more complicated matter in many situations than it may seem before you've had some experience. There's thought to be considered in how you're going to operate - at a basic level, consider open vs. endo/thoracoscopic - and when, what exposures to use, what tools will best get the job done, etc.

Not to mention whatever happens to the patient while recovering from your surgery is likely yours to diagnose and manage, be it pneumonia, an MI, a leak, and so on. Often it will be as vague as, "this guy's had a fever for 3 days and nothing obviously wrong on his physical exam, what do we need to worry about?"

Thanks for the reply.

As for recovering from surgery, how long does a CT surgeon follow up with the patient for and at what point is the patient transferred back to cardiologists?
 
I don't have much experience with CT surgery specifically, but as with any surgical patient, this is going to depend on the complexity of the operation and any complications that may arise. You might have two patients undergo the same operation and one goes home in 5 days, while the other has many comorbidities, is unable to be extubated, and winds up with a horrid pneumonia in your ICU for a month. Even once they go home, the surgeon will continue to see them in clinic for a time, to make sure everything is healing nicely and the desired result was achieved.

On General Surgery services I've seen patients come back months to years after their operation because they had issues with retained stitches, hernias, leaks, cancer recurrence, etc. Again, I'm not too familiar with CT surgeries specifically but I'm sure they deal with much of the same. Once you operate on someone, I believe they are partly your responsibility forever, at least regarding that specific operation and any issues that may develop going forward.
 
Thanks for the reply.

As for recovering from surgery, how long does a CT surgeon follow up with the patient for and at what point is the patient transferred back to cardiologists?

Oftentimes, for a straightforward CABG or AVR, there is just the followup visit about a month out. If there is a concern about the wound or sternal stability, then you might bring that patient back again (and again). When it comes to managing heart failure or cardiac risk factors as an outpatient, leave that to the cardiologists.

If you have a patient with a type B dissection (or chronic descending component of a type A repair you have already performed), then you'll be following that patient with yearly CT scans for quite awhile.

Ideally, you'll operate enough that your clinic will be full of new consults and post-op visits.
 
Thanks for the reply.

As for recovering from surgery, how long does a CT surgeon follow up with the patient for and at what point is the patient transferred back to cardiologists?

At least with the CT surgeon I've shadowed, f/u is 1-2 days in Cardiac ICU then 2 week/1 month outpt post-op for sternal wound closure/checks for infection. He also does either a 3 month or a 1 yr for transplants. A lot of it is individualized based on complexity.
 
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