like honestly, who else besides pre-meds has to keep their grades top-notch, jump through endless hoops in regards to research and ECs, and go through this LOR nonsense?
like honestly, who else besides pre-meds has to keep their grades top-notch, jump through endless hoops in regards to research and ECs, and go through this LOR nonsense?
like honestly, who else besides pre-meds has to keep their grades top-notch, jump through endless hoops in regards to research and ECs, and go through this LOR nonsense?
you forgot to mention the MCAT aka the beast of all beasts
Rumor has it that the MCAT got the best of Chuck Norris
you forgot to mention the MCAT aka the beast of all beasts
Rumor has it that the MCAT got the best of Chuck Norris
Yeah the med school process makes getting into law and business schools look like a cakewalk. Sure, Harvard will always be hard to get into, but as you descend the rankings the competition drops precipitously. Compare, for example, the failure rate at your average law vs. med school for the Bar vs. the USMLE.
like honestly, who else besides pre-meds has to keep their grades top-notch, jump through endless hoops in regards to research and ECs, and go through this LOR nonsense?
Would you mind enlightening us?
like honestly, who else besides pre-meds has to keep their grades top-notch, jump through endless hoops in regards to research and ECs, and go through this LOR nonsense?
OOOOOOOO....you calling me out? It's so on.
I don't have time for empirical data so you'll have to settle with Wikipedia. Take, for example, Santa Clara University School of Law, which is #31 in the nation in bar passage rankings with an 82.1% passage rate. U.S. Allopathic med schools, by comparison, average in the very high 90's for the USMLE. The fact that there's even a "bar exam passage ranking" to begin with shows something.
Of course, it could be argued that the bar is harder than the USMLE. I'm not making that argument, but it could be argued.
not even close..but it is fairly hard though.Hardest thing ever! Worth it tho...
That is true...probably why not all law school grads can find a job even
like honestly, who else besides pre-meds has to keep their grades top-notch, jump through endless hoops in regards to research and ECs, and go through this LOR nonsense?
If you think it is the hardest thing ever just wait until you are actually in school and residency.Hardest thing ever! Worth it tho...
PhD grad school applicants, PA applicants, clinical psych (PhD/PsyD) applicants... heck, to a degree, even law school applicants...need I continue?
PhD students do not have to tackle the MCAT
PA applicants do not have to tackle the MCAT
you got me on clinical psych though.
That stat on wikipedia is misleading. Santa Clara is #31 for Schools' Pass Rate vs. State's Avg. Bar Pass Rate, but is only #152 out of 185 for pass rate.OOOOOOOO....you calling me out? It's so on.
I don't have time for empirical data so you'll have to settle with Wikipedia. Take, for example, Santa Clara University School of Law, which is #31 in the nation in bar passage rankings with an 82.1% passage rate. U.S. Allopathic med schools, by comparison, average in the very high 90's for the USMLE. The fact that there's even a "bar exam passage ranking" to begin with shows something.
Of course, it could be argued that the bar is harder than the USMLE. I'm not making that argument, but it could be argued.
wow what makes the bar so difficult in cali?That stat on wikipedia is misleading. Santa Clara is #31 for Schools' Pass Rate vs. State's Avg. Bar Pass Rate, but is only #152 out of 185 for pass rate.
I don't know if you just randomly picked Santa Clara, but the fact that it is in California is why the pass rate is so low. Stanford is the #3 ranked law school in the country but is only #64 in pass rate at 88.7%. The law school for the state school where I go isn't very hard to get into, but it has over a 95% pass rate.
wow what makes the bar so difficult in cali?
The bar is different in each state, but I don't know why it is harder there. Don't feel bad for them, though. The bar passages for Berkeley, Stanford, and UCLA are around 85-86%, but the percent with jobs after 9 months is 99, 98.5, and 97.8. All higher than the only two schools with a 100% pass rate.wow what makes the bar so difficult in cali?
actually i hear its much harder to get into a vet school
Yeah the med school process makes getting into law and business schools look like a cakewalk. Sure, Harvard will always be hard to get into, but as you descend the rankings the competition drops precipitously. Compare, for example, the failure rate at your average law vs. med school for the Bar vs. the USMLE.
I'm pretty sure the USMLE step 1 pass rate is like...95%. :-X Not sure about the bars tho. I think there are a lot of fields similar to the med school path but there's nothing that exactly lives up to it. The funny thing is, from what I've heard, the undergrad application process is probably the easiest stage in the path towards becoming a doctor.
Make no mistake about it, when you chose to be a doctor, you'll have to deal with this nonsense to get in to medical school, work like a dog for 4 years, get treated like a bitch through your residency and then, when you finally become an attending, the reward is being able to pay off your student loans and finally being able to settle down in your early 30s/late 20s if you're a traditional app. It's a pretty huge investment for the sake of career. Most of my friends are buying houses and going to Vegas every other month and sometimes I think: "What if... :-(". But in general I'm still happy with my choices thus far
PhD's get paid (a lot of them anyway), dentists don't have residency and neither do PA's I don't think (not sure).
Of course you're happy. Because at the end of the day when it's all said and done, you are going to be a medical doctor.
PhD students do not have to tackle the MCAT
PA applicants do not have to tackle the MCAT
you got me on clinical psych though.
And yet the average objective statistics are higher for those entering medical school, so despite a high number of applicants it is still easier to get into.Oh please, getting into a PhD program is a zillion times harder than preparing to take the MCAT and taking the MCAT. Also, I'm not sure why clinical psych is counted separately. Getting a clinical psych PhD slot is at least as hard as getting a seat in med school. Let's not forget vet school, which is *actually* the toughest to get in from a # of applicants : # of seats perspective.
Oh please, getting into a PhD program is a zillion times harder than preparing to take the MCAT and taking the MCAT. Also, I'm not sure why clinical psych is counted separately. Getting a clinical psych PhD slot is at least as hard as getting a seat in med school. Let's not forget vet school, which is *actually* the toughest to get in from a # of applicants : # of seats perspective.
And yet the average objective statistics are higher for those entering medical school, so despite a high number of applicants it is still easier to get into.
Oh please, getting into a PhD program is a zillion times harder than preparing to take the MCAT and taking the MCAT. Also, I'm not sure why clinical psych is counted separately. Getting a clinical psych PhD slot is at least as hard as getting a seat in med school. Let's not forget vet school, which is *actually* the toughest to get in from a # of applicants : # of seats perspective.
Oh please, getting into a PhD program is a zillion times harder than preparing to take the MCAT and taking the MCAT. Also, I'm not sure why clinical psych is counted separately. Getting a clinical psych PhD slot is at least as hard as getting a seat in med school. Let's not forget vet school, which is *actually* the toughest to get in from a # of applicants : # of seats perspective.
Now, I will agree that for me to try to get a chemistry PhD fellowship at Harvard would be more difficult than for me to get into my state medical school. But based purely on the degree, I don't think so. Simply put, more people are willing to fight for an MD seat than for a PhD slot. Just look at the number of applications for MD seats at most schools.
Agreed. The vet applicants are not as qualified in terms of grades as med school applicants.
That might be so (I emphasize on might be), but most PhD friends I know, in top notch chemical engineering programs (i.e. UMich), and chemistry programs, their first few years, go in at 10am, leave at 5pm, and when you need some time off? you take it whenever you want. And the only reason that PhD programs take so damn long is because people like to take their time. I have a friend who told me that if she actually work 40 hours a week in her program like people do at normal day to day jobs, she would finish her program (engineering) in 3 years, easily.
So for what it's worth
i might have to take back what i said about vet school..
dont some medical schools have acceptance rates under 3%?
wtf!!!!!!
thats so ridiculous
like honestly, who else besides pre-meds has to keep their grades top-notch, jump through endless hoops in regards to research and ECs, and go through this LOR nonsense?
Agreed. The vet applicants are not as qualified in terms of grades as med school applicants.
PhD students do not have to tackle the MCAT
PA applicants do not have to tackle the MCAT
you got me on clinical psych though.
+1000This has been debated a million times on here, but just so you know, most vet schools require more upper-level pre-req's. Almost all require biochem and calc, as well as some combination of immunology, animal nutrition, micro, genetics, etc. So the difference in average matriculant GPA's (3.6 versus 3.5) could probably be attributed to the more difficult classes required of pre-vets.
There is also a much bigger requirement in terms of clinical hours. I had 500 hours of veterinary experience and that's considered pretty low.
I will agree that the MCAT is probably harder than the GRE, although if you hate the verbal stuff you're in trouble on the GRE because it's half your score.
Really though, it's very hard to compare because all the vet schools except Western give heavy preference to in-state students and have a certain amount of seats reserved for them. In medical admissions you have the option of private schools but that's pretty much limited to Western for vet school. A lot of schools accept very few out of state (Georgia accepts one student). So your odds really depend on where you live and if your state has a vet school. Because many schools accept so few out of state and because the pre-req's vary widely between schools (besides the regular bio/chem/physics), most people only apply to a few schools. So that's another factor. It doesn't really matter; getting into either vet or med school is an accomplishment, it just annoys me when people throw out the GPA thing and make blanket statements about it.
i might have to take back what i said about vet school..
dont some medical schools have acceptance rates under 3%?
wtf!!!!!!
thats so ridiculous
yeah -- vet school was my first dream...like if i was driving down a narrow mountainside road and there was a kitten ahead in the distance crossing the road, and a homeless person sitting on the right side of the road...and i had to choice to either swerved to the left and crash into the railing and plummet to my death down the jagged mountainside, or swerve to my right and kill the homeless person, or just keeping going straight and kill the kitten...i would defintley swerve right --