sendwich

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do you know of anyone who was premed (heading toward med school), had all the right grades/experiences/etc and decided on becoming a nurse?

no, i am not talking about people who used nursing as a "backup" but someone who dedicated their life to nursing.
 

konnih

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I work with a nurse who did just that. He started out pre-med and for whatever reason, decided to become a nurse. He is still talking about going back to become an MD, but he does not have a timeframe in mind. He has plenty of time, though, because he just graduated from nursing school last year and he's only 21.
 

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Well, I finished all my premend stuff, including PChem (eewww) and then finished Nursing school, because I didn't want to be in school forever. I definitely had the grades (3.9)/experiences (hospital volunteer, labwork in immunology, CNA, cancer pt buddy,)and also had an excellent MCAT score. To be honest though, I hate school, I absoloutely hate it. I am about to head back for a MPH degree, but hey, thats only two years. (I always get done on time because I really don't like the school thing). I made a definite choice to not persue Med school, but I can't say my life is dedicated to nursing. It's a great job. I'm looking forward to having my MPH so I can make a bigger difference in international health...but as far as regrets, I have absoloutely none.
 
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Doctora Foxy

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I have a friend at school who did that...he was a great student and everything, but he didn't want his profession to become his whole life, so he decided to become a NP.
 

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It is not a crazy questions.

I am a second year med student seriously considering changing direction before I start rotations. I am married with kids and getting tired of putting them and my wife second to school when tests come around. With two years of school and 3+ residency facing me I am considering enrolling in an accelerated BSN program and then b/c an NP.

I know the trend is the reverse and some will think I am crazy. Medicine is a second career for me (original degree in Finance) and money was not the motivating factor. I wanted a career that is rewarding, flexible and decent financial compensation. The time commitments and uncertainty of where I will end up are starting to make me doubt my decision. I am not afraid of a challenge but many times the effort is not worth the price.

My advice is to do what makes you happy and from there work hard. Rewards will follow.

Good Luck.
 

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I almost did just that. For as long as I can remember I've been interested in becoming a doctor. However, the lifestyle considerations (more flexibility to move to a foreign country, no residency, when you're off duty you don't have to worry so much) and decreased pressure/responsibiliby of nursing began to appeal to me. I've always thought life is for living, not for working!! Sometimes I think I'm making a mistake applying to med school rather than nursing school, but I know if I become a nurse I will kick myself for not going to med school. It would be really annoying having doctors around who think they are superior to you! I also think I would not be as intellectually challenged as a nurse. I wouldn't have a problem with this at first, but after a while I think I would long to become a doctor.
 

sendwich

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thanks everybody for responding to this post. actually, a lot of whats above are what i've been thinking about. it's something i'm really struggling w/. i'm not sure what my decision is yet but it's comforting to know that i'm not the only on going through this ordeal.

good luck all of you!!!
 

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Just for the Record, I changed My Undergraduate Degree from Surgical Technology to Nursing.

For the doctors that think they're superior to you, I think they just need to be slapped a few pegs down their pedistool that they've put themselves on. the doctors need to know that they're not above anyone. everyone in Medicine is an equal. Now I'm not talking education wise, cause I know many doctors who would beg to differ...I'm talking about treating others fairly and morally. Just because someone has 24 years+ of schooling behind their belt, doesn't mean in any way that they have the right to look down upon or think they are better than other people in the medical field. As you all should know, Everyone in the Medical Field should be working TOGETHER, not against each other, or to see whose better than who at what job or specialty.
 

MD2b06

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Originally posted by OwlMyste
pedistool
Is it just me, or does a high school diploma not mean much anymore? Like basic spelling skills. :p
 

OwlMyste

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Originally posted by MD2b06
Is it just me, or does a high school diploma not mean much anymore? Like basic spelling skills. :p

and people wonder why I feel so much hatred towards doctors..........atleast the ones who have their heads up their asses...
 

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Originally posted by OwlMyste
Just for the Record, I changed My Undergraduate Degree from Surgical Technology to Nursing.

Have you forgotten about the career path you had just last week? What happened to veterinary medicine?
 

lloydchristmas

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I am exactly that. I was 6 months from starting med school and after visiting long and hard with a buddy of mine who's a MD, I went backwards in my undergrad to get a BSN to be a FNP. It'll save me over $900K by the time I'm 35 years old. Now, I know that being a doctor probably would have evened this out over the long run (but actually, if I would've done family practice, I would've never recovered the difference!). My friend (the MD) offered me a job with him as a NP starting at over $100K year, and I couldn't refuse it. So, I'm now a NP student, and couldn't be happier about the fact that I'll have autonomy, get to practice medicine, make great money, and I'll be done next year. And, no call, less than 40 hours a week, etc etc etc. It was an easy decision for me after my bud MD and I talked it all out. Medicine just isn't going in a good direction right now. And, who wants to dedicate their life to working instead of having fun with friends/family, etc. I'll tell you this: growing up in school, I noticed that the kids that I went to school with that had the most problems (drugs, police, grades, behavior, etc) were all doctors sons. Not trying to generalize, but hey, a trend is a trend, and it was too obvious to ignore. I can't wait to watch my kids at ball games, Christmas morning, etc etc. You'll never see me wishing I could be called doctor. In fact, if people ever ask me if I'm a doctor, I'll say, "Are you crazy?"
 

lloydchristmas

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Originally posted by MD2b06
Is it just me, or does a high school diploma not mean much anymore? Like basic spelling skills. :p

Hmmmm... is "Like basic spelling skills." a complete sentence? You'd better have the right grammar if you're going to knock someone's spelling. You just made yourself look like a total *****. Great job!
 
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MD2b06

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Originally posted by lloydchristmas
Hmmmm... is "Like basic spelling skills." a complete sentence? You'd better have the right grammar if you're going to knock someone's spelling. You just made yourself look like a total *****. Great job!
Haha, nice try. Sentence fragments are common online. Butchering words almost to the point of non-recognition is not so common. But then again, this is OwlMyste we're talking about here. Perhaps I should cut her some slack? Nah. :D
 

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Do you know that in the Philippines, a lot of physicians are going back to school to become a nurse? It's true. This is because their monthly income (as physicians) are not enough for their needs. These doctors are attracted to $$$$ and assured U.S. citizenship being offered by the U.S. gov't and hospitals as nurses (in U.S.).

It's really depressing.:(
 

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Who cares what doctors do in the Philippines?
Lloyd, if you believe that story, I have some land for you to buy in Florida...its swamp land, but I really bet you can farm it. NP's practice medicine? I suppose they practice dentistry too...How are you saving almost a million dollars? My friend, I simply don't understand your math...nor do I understand your statement of autonomy? What state? Most of the time the NP/PA makes money for the physician (ie cheap labor) much like residents. Your stories are so twisted I have to wonder if you actually just "making them up". I have seen probably about 10 happy nurses in the past 6 years of medical training...so your stories are a rarity indeed.
Owlmyste...I have been off this subject board for a year, but I used to be a frequent flyer here. And now I see a new face/name. You have HATRED for doctors...nice. Sounds like you need a bit of therapy. There is a NP that I know that makes a million dollars, practices dentistry, vetrinary medicine, and psychiatry. Went to school for 6 months, works 20 minutes a week and all of her children love the lord and never get into trouble. Perhaps you could see her. If the story sounds too good to be true, it likely is.
Wanna buy some stocks?
 

UrSexyLatinDr21

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Who cares what doctors do in the Philippines?
Lloyd, if you believe that story, I have some land for you to buy in Florida...its swamp land, but I really bet you can farm it. NP's practice medicine? I suppose they practice dentistry too...How are you saving almost a million dollars? My friend, I simply don't understand your math...nor do I understand your statement of autonomy? What state? Most of the time the NP/PA makes money for the physician (ie cheap labor) much like residents. Your stories are so twisted I have to wonder if you actually just "making them up". I have seen probably about 10 happy nurses in the past 6 years of medical training...so your stories are a rarity indeed.
Owlmyste...I have been off this subject board for a year, but I used to be a frequent flyer here. And now I see a new face/name. You have HATRED for doctors...nice. Sounds like you need a bit of therapy. There is a NP that I know that makes a million dollars, practices dentistry, vetrinary medicine, and psychiatry. Went to school for 6 months, works 20 minutes a week and all of her children love the lord and never get into trouble. Perhaps you could see her. If the story sounds too good to be true, it likely is.
Wanna buy some stocks?

WHAT AN ILOGICAL RESPONSE FULL OF SARCASM!

:rolleyes:
 

lloydchristmas

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Originally posted by Freeeedom!
Who cares what doctors do in the Philippines?
Lloyd, if you believe that story, I have some land for you to buy in Florida...its swamp land, but I really bet you can farm it. NP's practice medicine? I suppose they practice dentistry too...How are you saving almost a million dollars? My friend, I simply don't understand your math...nor do I understand your statement of autonomy? What state? Most of the time the NP/PA makes money for the physician (ie cheap labor) much like residents. Your stories are so twisted I have to wonder if you actually just "making them up". I have seen probably about 10 happy nurses in the past 6 years of medical training...so your stories are a rarity indeed.
Owlmyste...I have been off this subject board for a year, but I used to be a frequent flyer here. And now I see a new face/name. You have HATRED for doctors...nice. Sounds like you need a bit of therapy. There is a NP that I know that makes a million dollars, practices dentistry, vetrinary medicine, and psychiatry. Went to school for 6 months, works 20 minutes a week and all of her children love the lord and never get into trouble. Perhaps you could see her. If the story sounds too good to be true, it likely is.
Wanna buy some stocks?

Believe what story?? What the f*ck are you talking about???

Here's the math for your simple mind to comprehend...

Family practice doctor... 60,000 undergrad loans. $160,000 med school loans. That's $220K to pay back. Then there's residency for 3 years at $30K/yr. So, since I've lived on the 30K/yr during residency, the $220K is now $250K with interest, and on a repayment plan will cost much more with interest.

Family Nurse Practitioner: government pays for all school because of the word 'nurse'. I start making $150,000/yr after 5.5 years of school. So, I have 5.5 years of earning while you're still in school. That's already a total of $825,000 of lost income while you're becoming a doctor. Add in the $300,000 you'll be paying back in loans (that's if you pay it back quickly) and already you're behind $1,125,000 when you finish residency. Since the average family practice doctor makes about $130K/yr because of rising malpractice costs, medicaid/medicare cuts etc, you'll never catch me. Sure there's docs making much more, but you can have the headache and the working your arse off 100 hours/week.

Don't understand still? I can't explain it any simpler. Don't believe I'll make that much as a NP? Here's that math simply laid out for you... $50/patient x 30 patients per day at 100% reimbursement (cash only) = $345,000 per year gross with 6 weeks vacation per year. I take 50%... $172,500. I work 40 hours a week and pay $1000 a year in malpractice insurance. You work 100 hours a week and pay upwards of $40K a year in malpractice insurance.

Now you see why I would do such a thing (maybe you still don't see... I don't know).

And since you have no clue what NPs do, you need to research it if you're still stumped. You don't think we practice medicine? We examine, diagnose, order and interpret lab/xray/ancillary services, and prescribe medicine. What is practicing medicine if we don't do it? Yes, the law attaches us to a license of a doctor, but that is so vaguely described in the law, that it can mean attached at the hip or fax a chart to a docs office once a week and that's it. And, yes, we practice medicine on the simpler side (cough/sneeze/snotty nose) but that's the gravy train. You can have the CHF/COPD/NIDDM patient that's sh*tting all over themselves that the government pays a flat meager rate for no matter how much care they get.

If you don't understand still, just close your eyes and continue on your path because you're just another sheep headed toward the sheering.
 

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I think your numbers are a bit flawed. 150K after 5.5 yrs? You may be assuming the same annual increase throughout your career as well but that may not be true because after a certain number of years salaries at the top end of the curve flatten out.

Which part of this country? The 95th percentile for NP is $100K. And if the NP is making 150K, the FP should be making atleast 250K. If you are making the same as the FP, he or she would most likely just hire another FP because they would be able to split call duty and inpatient rounding duty.
Anyway, if FP and NP worked for 30 years at the salary I listed, I am sure the extra $3M even adjusted for inflation and lost opportunity cost would more than even out the difference. I would have to have exact numbers to work it out in excel, but I could calculate the exact number of years that you would get passed.
However, if you choose to practice a better reimbursed field than FP you would make out better within a much shorter time frame.
Buh-bye.
 

stanMD

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lloydchristmas, (the name fits you well)

I don't know where to start... I have read several of your posts. Some of the threads do not reflect well on your character, honor or intelect. Whenever you are challenged in a post, legitimately, you respond with profanity and intimidation. ( Which is predictably how you will respond to me). My opinion, however, should mean very little to you,and that is the point I want to convey here. You care too much about what others think of you. I believe you suffer from some kind of a inferiority complex ie. always trying to prove yourself, always trying to show that, "your just as good" or "better off" than somebody else. No one cares about that. Do your own thing man, and stop worrying about what others think.

Can I show an example?

This thread was started by an OP that asked:

"do you know of anyone who was premed (heading toward med school), had all the right grades/experiences/etc and decided on becoming a nurse?"

You stated that:

"I am exactly that..."

Either you didn't read the question correctly or you are exagerating you competency just to "prove" that you are good enough.

May I refer you back to the "IQ v.s. MCAT" thread on the "MCAT discussion" board. You claimed that you have an IQ of 170 and took a practice MCAT and scored a 22.

Let me remind you that a 22 won't get you into too many medical schools, that I know of anyway. You wouldn't have gotten in even if you tried. It also appears that you had very little experience. Hence, I percieve an anger towards doctors and some kind of need for vindication, when in reality, no one cares.

The point is, most of your stories (and numbers) are far-fetched. People in a medical forum are more intelligent than that. We see through it. Don't hate man, just be proud of who YOU are and stop worrying about proving yourself to others. Good luck in nursing. I respect the nursing profession, nurses make important contribution to every patient's life.
 

lloydchristmas

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Originally posted by Voxel
I think your numbers are a bit flawed. 150K after 5.5 yrs? You may be assuming the same annual increase throughout your career as well but that may not be true because after a certain number of years salaries at the top end of the curve flatten out.

Which part of this country? The 95th percentile for NP is $100K. And if the NP is making 150K, the FP should be making atleast 250K. If you are making the same as the FP, he or she would most likely just hire another FP because they would be able to split call duty and inpatient rounding duty.
Anyway, if FP and NP worked for 30 years at the salary I listed, I am sure the extra $3M even adjusted for inflation and lost opportunity cost would more than even out the difference. I would have to have exact numbers to work it out in excel, but I could calculate the exact number of years that you would get passed.
However, if you choose to practice a better reimbursed field than FP you would make out better within a much shorter time frame.
Buh-bye.

I knew my simple explanation wouldn't be suffice. Did you not see the math??? Yes, it's $150K/yr, and that's being conservative. It could easily be $250K/yr. I have a bud (MD) who's into a field of medicine where the reimbursement is 100% and there is no call. He talked me out of med school 3 years ago, so I went backwards in my undergrad to get a nursing degree so I could be a NP. He's giving me 50% of all collected charges I generate. He'd probably have to give another doc 75% or something, so why hire another doc? My malpractice is $1000 a year, and the docs is several times more. The practice I'm involved in is simple, so there's usually no need to call the doc for something I'm not trained for. I'm cheaper, yet I make more than most family docs out there doing the regular medicaid clinic family practice thing and getting paid 7 bucks a patient by the govt whether they spend enough time with them to say piss on ya or they're in there for 2 hours trying to pull a 2 liter coke bottle out of their pungent vagina that they decided was big enough to satisfy. I'll be seing good smelling higher class patients, while the Family doc will continue to see the smelly, snotty, IQ-lower-than-my-shoelaces medicaid patients.

I've laid it out as simply as I can. Someone will still say, "hey, this is awry, you can't blah blah blah".
 

lloydchristmas

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Originally posted by stanMD
lloydchristmas, (the name fits you well)

I don't know where to start... I have read several of your posts. Some of the threads do not reflect well on your character, honor or intelect. Whenever you are challenged in a post, legitimately, you respond with profanity and intimidation. ( Which is predictably how you will respond to me). My opinion, however, should mean very little to you,and that is the point I want to convey here. You care too much about what others think of you. I believe you suffer from some kind of a inferiority complex ie. always trying to prove yourself, always trying to show that, "your just as good" or "better off" than somebody else. No one cares about that. Do your own thing man, and stop worrying about what others think.

Can I show an example?

This thread was started by an OP that asked:

"do you know of anyone who was premed (heading toward med school), had all the right grades/experiences/etc and decided on becoming a nurse?"

You stated that:

"I am exactly that..."

Either you didn't read the question correctly or you are exagerating you competency just to "prove" that you are good enough.

May I refer you back to the "IQ v.s. MCAT" thread on the "MCAT discussion" board. You claimed that you have an IQ of 170 and took a practice MCAT and scored a 22.

Let me remind you that a 22 won't get you into too many medical schools, that I know of anyway. You wouldn't have gotten in even if you tried. It also appears that you had very little experience. Hence, I percieve an anger towards doctors and some kind of need for vindication, when in reality, no one cares.

The point is, most of your stories (and numbers) are far-fetched. People in a medical forum are more intelligent than that. We see through it. Don't hate man, just be proud of who YOU are and stop worrying about proving yourself to others. Good luck in nursing. I respect the nursing profession, nurses make important contribution to every patient's life.

Stan...
I only use profanity when I believe it's the only language that will get through the thick skull of the person I'm speaking to. I have all the experience, GPA, etc, and all the docs I work with came from the same DO school, so I could get into a DO school in my state with a 22... but that's beside the point. I got a 22 on a practice free amcas test (which I'm sure was harder so you'll sign up and pay them for the rest of the practice tests... it's just business). And, that's before I started studying, so the 22 I got was on pure memory from the courses I took over 4 years ago. I'm quite sure it would be at least 30 if I studied and pursued it. Hell, I got the only A in Advanced O Chem at my undergrad institution that year(must admit I just barely got the A with a 91%).

I agree nurses make an important contribution. Once I became one, I learned just how important they are (and no, I'm not speaking of myself or trying to "show that I'm 'just as good'" as anything or anyone). I'm just passing through on the whole nursing thing... just paying the bills until I get the degree I came for.

As for the "far-fetched" numbers that the "more intelligent" people on medical forums can "see right through"... can't help you there. If you don't want to believe it, that's your choice. I know what I'm saying is true, and that's all I need. I don't expect people to believe me when the numbers and stories are so different than yours. It's just like anything else that people haven't experienced before. UFOs, ghosts, someone who scored 170 on an IQ test and a 22 on a practice MCAT, NPs who will make more and work less than doctors... none of them exist, right?
 
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eddieberetta

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Originally posted by lloydchristmas
The practice I'm involved in is simple, so there's usually no need to call the doc for something I'm not trained for. I'm cheaper, yet I make more than most family docs out there doing the regular medicaid clinic family practice thing...

Yeah? Well remember you could have been the family doctor making a cut on all the routine visits run by your nurse. You're planning to work for a family doctor. Do you think you'll be making more than him?

Originally posted by lloydchristmas
...regular medicaid clinic family practice thing and getting paid 7 bucks a patient by the govt whether they spend enough time with them to say piss on ya or they're in there for 2 hours trying to pull a 2 liter coke bottle out of their pungent vagina that they decided was big enough to satisfy. I'll be seing good smelling higher class patients, while the Family doc will continue to see the smelly, snotty, IQ-lower-than-my-shoelaces medicaid patients.

That's just brutal. You need help. Honestly LC, if that's the way you feel, you should seriously reconsider your plans to become a health worker.
 

Delvonik

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Originally posted by lloydchristmas
I'll be seing good smelling higher class patients, while the Family doc will continue to see the smelly, snotty, IQ-lower-than-my-shoelaces medicaid patients.

I've laid it out as simply as I can. Someone will still say, "hey, this is awry, you can't blah blah blah".

Excuse me? You're not serious, are you?
It's comforting to know that you think poor people (similar to myself and many others) are disgusting, stupid and dirty.
 

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Originally posted by Delvonik
Excuse me? You're not serious, are you?
It's comforting to know that you think poor people (similar to myself and many others) are disgusting, stupid and dirty.

OMG, I can't believe he just said that.

Well, I'm in that "poor" category myself, and I certainly don't think that I'm "smelly, snotty" or have an extraordinarily low IQ.

You should be ashamed of yourself, lloyd! Someone with your attitude has no right being in the healthcare profession!
 

manna

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Originally posted by gh
do you know of anyone who was premed (heading toward med school), had all the right grades/experiences/etc and decided on becoming a nurse?

no, i am not talking about people who used nursing as a "backup" but someone who dedicated their life to nursing.

Okay, I know this is two posts in a row for me, but that's what I get for not reading the whole thread.

I've been considering nursing. I'm still a lowly undergrad, but I think my grades are decent.

I, like so many other pre-meds, have this insatiable drive to be a physician.. but I saw my non-trad brother go through med school and I don't know if I'm more encouraged or discouraged by his example.

Would I be sacrificing my family/children for my education/career? I think about that question quite often...
 

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If an NP only gets 50% of collected charges, the employing FP gets the remaining 50%. While a large part of this will go to overhead, the FP will still make a profit off what the NP brings in. In addition, the FP will also have what he bills himself, which is likely to be more as a function of billing ability.
Also, it's a little optimistic to project a $150-250k salary based on 50% net of generated revenue. Most NP's generate about $150-200K and take home about a 1/3-1/4 of that. To intend to bill 30% more than most NP's in the first year of practice is a little presumptous and optimistic. If anything, NP salaries are falling because of the recent influx of nurses to NP school.
$150K is well above the 95th percentile and is definitely not typical of an NP salary. If this is truly the case, it is an exception to the rule and is a result of being the buddy of the employing FP. Should this arrangement fall through, one would have a hard time finding a comparable environment. However, all fo this is still an estimate of possible future earnings. Don't count your chickens before....?

What's more alarming is this:
"The practice I'm involved in is simple, so there's usually no need to call the doc for something I'm not trained for."
I question the safety of someone who doesn't want to call the MD for something that they're not trained for, regardless of how simple it may be. I agree with the comments others have made regarding LC's view of the poor, the ones most in need of medical aid and care.

Finally, the practice amcas test is easier than the actual MCAT. To estimate one's possible MCAT score is purely guesswork. At that, an estimated score of 30 is average and by no means impressive.
Also, an IQ of 170 is four standard deviations above the mean (mean 100-110, SD 15) and would represent someone in the top 0.001% of the population (Einstein's IQ was estimated at 160). For an IQ test to adequately derive this figure, it would require very controlled and extensive testing for a true value. Regardless, a high IQ is in no way indicative of abilities of any sort and to rely upon this score for anything other than membership into MENSA and stroking the ego would be foolish.
 

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Interesting conversation going on.

As far as NP salaries it varies greatly. It also depends on the state as well. Some states the practice is more limited than in other states hence lowering the salary. In some states NP's are completely autonomous which means they keep their full reimbursement. Then there are varying degrees of supervision.
There is also different types of privileges such as in Virginia an NP can't write for Schedule II medications other states do not have this restriction. So in Virginia the NP salaries are rather low.

Depending on where you live the salaries as well as autonomy can vary greatly. I don't even get 50% of collected reimbursement and if I chose to work full time hours and of course increased my client?le to that level I could make about 150k. There are mitigating factors. I only have the client?le right now to work about 2 days a week, but then I am still just starting my practice and it takes time to build a new practice. Until my children are both in school I really don't want to work more than 3 days a week if possible.

Course I also have a way, due to my specialty, of also obtaining a percentage as well. I can do therapy without requiring supervision. Hence counselors/therapists who need to bill through someone else's billing codes can bill through mine(ie: delegation of services). I just found this out and am working on a contract with a therapist. So that will be some added income. That is still in the works and logistics/legal being worked out.

A friend of mine was recently hired at a private practice and salaried at 120k plus benefits. I don't have the benefits package. Oh well, will have to negotiate that. ;)
But then I know other NP's in my specialty starting at 80k at the VA or County government facility.

Now I know this is all anecdotal. I also know that the national average is listed at less than I made as an RN. The only thing I can guess about that is the states with a lot of limitations such as Virginia pull it down. But I honestly do not know. Another thing might be the specialty. The specialty I am in just recently acquired certification. So there are not very many of us right now. Hence a kind of high demand and low supply. I am sure that will change.

AxisII
 

lloydchristmas

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Originally posted by eddieberetta
Yeah? Well remember you could have been the family doctor making a cut on all the routine visits run by your nurse. You're planning to work for a family doctor. Do you think you'll be making more than him?

Of course not. But that's the only way I'd do it. I would do it that way if circumstances were different. But, given my situation, it's the best choice for me.
 

lloydchristmas

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Originally posted by Delvonik
Excuse me? You're not serious, are you?
It's comforting to know that you think poor people (similar to myself and many others) are disgusting, stupid and dirty.

LOL I'm poor too, always have been. I don't think poor people are disgusting, stupid and dirty. I think disgusting, stupid, and dirty people are though. Trust me... there are people like that out there. Like the one I had in the ER the other night that had alcohol poisoning, a head injury from a baseball bat from a gang war who was not breathing one minute and then punching nurses the next. Or the medicaid patient that comes to the ER 3 times a week (no joke) for headache, backache, whateverache that gets them the high off the demerol shot. That's where the tax dollars are going?? Ya, you could say I'm kinda pissed about the whole situation.
 

lloydchristmas

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Originally posted by Ponyboy
If an NP only gets 50% of collected charges, the employing FP gets the remaining 50%. While a large part of this will go to overhead, the FP will still make a profit off what the NP brings in. In addition, the FP will also have what he bills himself, which is likely to be more as a function of billing ability.
Also, it's a little optimistic to project a $150-250k salary based on 50% net of generated revenue. Most NP's generate about $150-200K and take home about a 1/3-1/4 of that. To intend to bill 30% more than most NP's in the first year of practice is a little presumptous and optimistic. If anything, NP salaries are falling because of the recent influx of nurses to NP school.
$150K is well above the 95th percentile and is definitely not typical of an NP salary. If this is truly the case, it is an exception to the rule and is a result of being the buddy of the employing FP. Should this arrangement fall through, one would have a hard time finding a comparable environment. However, all fo this is still an estimate of possible future earnings. Don't count your chickens before....?

What's more alarming is this:
"The practice I'm involved in is simple, so there's usually no need to call the doc for something I'm not trained for."
I question the safety of someone who doesn't want to call the MD for something that they're not trained for, regardless of how simple it may be. I agree with the comments others have made regarding LC's view of the poor, the ones most in need of medical aid and care.

Poor people need healthcare worse than anyone else??? What the f*ck is this??? Those people get sicker more often than lower middle class??? I knew someone would pull the "I question the safety" bullsh*t. Of course I'd call the doc in if someone walked in with something I haven't seen before. That's common sense, and I didn't think I had to spell that out for you. The point is the kind of practice I'll be in is pretty straight forward. 99% of the patients are going to be within my scope. I think you're trying to turn this into me thinking I'm as trained as a physician... and I know good and well that I won't be. But I'm okay with that.

As for the money thing... like I said many times before, this is an ALL CASH business, and a 100% reimbursement. You're comparing other NPs who mostly work in family practices who accept mostly medicaid/medicare/HMOs that don't pay anything. I agree that NPs working in this situation only generate 300K gross or so. That happens to not be my situation.

This is such a negative posting environment. Anyone I talk to in person about this says "wow, you got lucky.. what a deal". I haven't heard a positive comment yet about it. Everyone's quick to tear it all down. Maybe I **** in your easter basket about medicine... I don't know. Sorry if I did...
 

Ponyboy

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There is a well documented inequality between healthcare provided to people below and above the poverty line. In addition, socioeconomic status is inversely proportional to life expectancy and morbidity for just about every major disease prevalent in North America. Simple, rudimentary social medicine and epidemiology. Do poor people get sicker than lower middle class? Yes, they most definitely do.

Your statement regarding needing to call the doc can be interpreted in more ways than one. If you know your limitations, good for you. However, I have seen many mid-level practioners who consistently over-estimate their clinical accumen and often go beyond their scope of practice. It's not a bull**** issue when people try to do things that they cannot.

As for the money, don't count your chickens before they hatch. If your situation is as you say it is, it is a function of who you know as opposed to the job potential of an NP (which is misleading to those who are trying to choose a career). It's similar to son of the CEO who works in the mailroom bragging about how he makes more than an airline pilot. It's not because of the amazing demand for mailboys, it's his inside connection.

BTW, the profanity is unnecessary. I think that I just might be able to understand you without it. However, if I am supplying evidence that swearing is the "the only language that will get through [my] thick skull", please show me and I will try be a little more intelligent.
 

AxisNP

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"There is a well documented inequality between healthcare provided to people below and above the poverty line. In addition, socioeconomic status is inversely proportional to life expectancy and morbidity for just about every major disease prevalent in North America. Simple, rudimentary social medicine and epidemiology. Do poor people get sicker than lower middle class? Yes, they most definitely do.
"


Have no idea why I am jumping in but thought I would. Hope I don't get in trouble. LOL

Yes, those below poverty do get sicker. But those who do get medicaid (and I think this is different depending on location) get rather good healthcare. But healthcare is only part of the picture.

Those who are middle-class to lower middle class might have a better living standard so don't get as sick. But when they do get sick they can't pay for it. Many do not have insurance or are under insured. I can really only speak for the state I live in since it is what I know best. We have many companies that don't even offer insurance to it's workers until they have worked there 3-5 years. There are some companies that have excellent benefits right from the start. Often, from what I have noticed, their head quarters is based in another state.

I guess we can argue social problems all day long. Everyone has their view from what they see and what they focus on. I did home health in a major metro city years ago. I used to go into the projects often. I went into some that were really nicely decorated and kept up, and others that were disgusting. I saw the same thing in middle class neighborhoods. Some people's houses were really nice and others were not. I remember one of our nurses being robbed in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods. I worked the projects and was never robbed. Go figure.

The practice I am in does accept Medicaid. Some of the people we see are less than desirable people and others are not. It's hard to say though. I can think of one client who I really like. Though I have to spray my office when he leaves since he is a bit odoriferous. But he is really trying. Personally I think he should write a book since I find the statements he makes about his perspective on life more than a little fascinating. But then maybe I am just an odd bird myself. ;)

But I guess it's just like when I would hear people getting all ticked off at those "living off the system". Though statistically the majority of people who use government aid do not stay on it. It's a certain smaller percentage (I do not remember the exact numbers, sorry) that do this. So it seemed to me that we punish those who do use and need the "safety net" appropriately because of the few who abuse it. Well now (at least in this state)there really is no safety net. That was eliminated for fear of abuse of the system. OK, that is my own bone to gnaw on issue.

Back to medical stuff. Everyone has their preference. One MD who has been asking me to work for him actually likes the HMOs. I was surprised to here him say this. It was the first time I had heard this. He said his practice is doing well, enough that he needs help. And he often gets letters of approval and number of sessions long before he has even seen the client. So he knows what to expect. It was interesting.

It just seems to me if you are going into healthcare to get rich, well it might not be the right reasons. Not that some Docs aren't getting very wealthy. But they are also working very hard and long hours. Nursing is not a career to get rich on, but I think you can live rather comfortably.

Well I guess I am done with my book writing for today. ;)

AxisNP
 
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