I love PBS! :)

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Scooby Doo, Sep 26, 2001.

  1. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    PBS is the best channel on my TV :)
    They are showing the best evolution documentary this whole week.
    Tonight they were talking about evolutionary psychology!
    It was super interesting! Everyone should be watching this!
    Anyone else see it?
    I want to take some classes on evolutionary psych now :)
    It was hilarious when the women were asked to smell a bunch of guys shirts and then rate the shirts on which ones they felt were sexiest...and they always chose the shirt that least matched their genes in terms of immunity! That's pretty crazy! :)
    Then the theory about the chimps versus Bonobi's (or something like that..i can't remember)....just a great show!
    I think it's on everynight for the rest of the week...new programs but same basic topic :) :) :)
    I love PBS!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  3. TwoSteveSquared

    TwoSteveSquared Senior Member

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    So, that's your secret, PBS? Do you think I could be the big SDN stud if I watch too? Sweet.
     
  4. sng33

    sng33 Senior Member

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    I did see it scooby, it was very intersting. I was an evolutionary anthropology minor as an undergrad, and some of the theory really makes you think about your views and actions from an unbiased perspective.
     
  5. Mystique

    Mystique The Procrastinator

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    What's the name of the program/series? I want to try to catch it this week...
    Should I look for it the evening hours?

    :)
     
  6. racergirl

    racergirl Senior Member

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    Sounds like a great show, but at first glance I thought your post was titled "I love PUS!"

    I thought maybe that could be your answer to the question "Why do you want to be a doctor?"
     
  7. E'01

    E'01 1K Member

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    Wow you go Scoob, I thought I was the only one that thought PBS is the best channel. Since I have no cable - and just got the basic channels 1-21 just the other day - PBS is like my cinemax/HBO rolled in one. I've watched the Series on Dying, trying to watch the Africa series on Sundays between EMT calls, and the Health of African-Americans w/ Dr. Satcher (well I missed it but printed out the transcript). I did watch part of the evolution show last night. Hey Scoob - you should read Robert Sapolsky's A Primate's Memoir. It's not exactly evolution, but it is an awesome book that I think you might like!
     
  8. cm7b5

    cm7b5 Senior Member

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    I thought you were talking about Phosphate-Buffered Saline (PBS).....I gotta get out of the lab.
     
  9. DNALadder2002

    DNALadder2002 Senior Member

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    That's hilarious cm7b5 !
     
  10. The Fly

    The Fly Senior Member

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    I too had fleeting thoughts of buffered saline! Pretty sad. :(
     
  11. Denilson

    Denilson Senior Member

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    IF evolution is true (unproven theory as of today), THEN you must believe that some human races are lagging behind right?...I am not a BELIEVER of evolution (has many many holes in the theory), but if you are a believer you must agree that human race evolved differently; hence suggestive of a higher more evolved race right?...as a scientist, I don't see the logic behind evolution...how does a bacteria become a eukaryote?...NO evolutionary biologist tackles that question...the queston of how??? mutation?...well, thousands of mutations (good ones I might add) had to happen that is contrary to biological theories...mutations are mostly (>99% bad)...
    sorry, just a thought, i wish scientists would stick with facts rather than unproven hypothesis...
     
  12. cm7b5

    cm7b5 Senior Member

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    mmmmmmm Phosphate Buffered Saline........

    Paulista- When saying a "higher evolved organism" you should reference it to a particular environment. You seem to be talking about an antiquated, eugenic-type version of "evolution", where there was an assumed objectivity (eg. an ultimate superior being). However, now most scientists (when I say most I mean almost all) aren't this ignorant. Each organism has adapted to fit a niche in a specific environmental setting, hence there is no "all-superior" organism. Your mutation argument is incoherent.
     
  13. Denilson

    Denilson Senior Member

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    True, BUt one ust know the difference between adaptation and evolution...adaption is a fact, however, evolution is not...many "scientists" use the term interchangebly which is incorrect...adaptation does not give rise to new genes..genes comes from preexisting genes and "evolution of new genes" has NEVER been documented!!!mutations does not give rise to evolution!!!!
    evolution is simply a hypothesis...how did the first cell come about?...the simplest form of a cell is SO SO SO complex that no one can even begin to explain how it came about...the ones that do leave out many important steps...
    just my 2 cents ;)
     
  14. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    oh my god, let's not get into that discussion.

    LOL about the PBS. I was just gonna ask, 10x or 1x? About evolutionary psych, it IS fascinating :). most psych is, i love the subject...just wouldn't ever want to do research in it. My sis and I are both psych majors (along with a couple others), and I'm gonna be a doc while she wants to do forensic psychology. Fascinating stuff - you should look into social psych. Things that seem like common sense end up being complicated processes - it's just fun. Plus, half the lectures are about like..sex and attraction. My final involved watching a Woody Allen film. Did you tape it??? (and how the hell did you have time to watch tv? No wonder you weren't talking to me much :) ).

    So now did you find out how you evolved to be the sculpted Adonis you are now? :D
     
  15. watto

    watto Sleek White Pantsuit

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    I also love PBS. Did anyone see last night's documentary, "Tight on the Spiral," about the history of NFL Films? Amazing! However, they did seem to downplay the role of John Facenda a bit. And no commercials!
     
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  17. Denilson

    Denilson Senior Member

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    ok...it's nice that you are fascinated by this stuff without much thought into how they people come up with their theories or evidences...i saw the PBS show as well as many TLC and discovery shows...i like to watch them and ask myself how do they come up with their stories?...for every line they come up with to explain their hypothesis i can come up with the one that would refute it...do they knwo that?..of course they do, but if they said that, they wouldn't be having their special on PBS or TLC...i watch those shows as if i'm watching friends or other TV shows...it's amusing to me... :p
    peace!! i don't want to start a argument, just letting people know other views against everything that is thrown to us..
    ...i think we should all evaluate everything that is thrown at us and not just take it as facts just cuz some guy/gale with a doctorate said so... :D
     
  18. Darwin

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    Hey Leori...definately 1x. It takes up more space in the lab, but damn I get tired of the dilution (everything I do requires 1x). :D

    PS - this thread was here a couple of days before I checked it out...I too thought Scooby was starting a discussion on buffered saline. Needless to say, I didn't look at it until I saw 12 replies. Why the heck the long discussion on saline? So I finally bit...
     
  19. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    Pualista...
    Wow..I have to write this on my 500th post...(THREE CHEERS for SCOOBY! Hip hip Horrah! Hip Hip Horrah! Hip Hip Horrah!!)..ok ok...

    You are entitled to your opinion and all but one thing you said I think it utterly and completely against the foundations of science. You said "i wish scientists would stick with facts rather than unproven hypothesis..."
    What exactly are you trying to say? That we should not examine the unknown? We should only talk about things that are FACT? There is a natural stepping stone from hypothesis to theory to fact. Ah...so you are saying f^$k the hypotheses and theories??...we only want to go by facts now. Well...you call yourself a scientist? I cannot believe that! I don't think you are in the rigth field if you are saying scientists should only talk about fact. In my lab, we study many many genes that may play a role in the development of humans. Some of these genes have been correlated in the past with this...but others we are trying to find out if they do or do not play a role. Correlation is not causation so we don't know for a FACT that these genes played a significant role in creating a different morphology in a human being. So I see now...since my work involves "theories" I should just keep my mouth shut...I see now..I am a stupid researcher who should not say anything until I can prove that this particular gene is the sole contributor to a problem. Until that time, I should not share any info I have with other scientists (no matter how helpful) b/c that would just propogate a "theory"..and damn, we know how horrible those darn theories can be....

    Also, no one denies that evolution is a THEORY....you seem to think that because it is an "unproven theory" it merits no worth..is that correct? I don't want to make this a religion versus evolution argument but then religion is also a theory...by your standards it merits no worth either. Oh yea..religion is an "unproven theory"...sorry about that...

    Speaking of religion...that one guy who studied geology at Wheaton College was a cool guy. I thought he was able to argue both sides very well. It was amazing to see how many closed minded people there are in the US...some of the students at Wheaton and that one high school...and at that one lecturer's seminar on how dinosaurs became fossilized.

    Paulista...I am highly disappointed that you call yourself a scientist...By suppressing information that you deem not worthy, you are hurting everyone...
     
  20. Denilson

    Denilson Senior Member

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    dude, sorry to piss you off....
    let me make myself clear...i meant that scientists should not base hypothesis on hypothesis...get it?...like basing a study to determine a role of gene X on evolutionary theory....have you seen those phylogenetic trees for gene Y's from various species and placing them in a cute order according to the theory of evolution?....if yes, have you noticed that there is nothing known about branch points?...that's the kinda stuff i was talking about above...
    i'm sure you do good science- like you explained above- it's fine to look at gene Z in rat and finding a ortholohue for the human and studying it...that's good science, but if you pput those phylogenetic trees that don't mean anything than you lose the point...
    also, i meant to say that there are many papers out there that base their whole study under the assumption that the theory of evolution is a fact...therefore, would you agree that there conclusion is unture because the premises that they based their studies on is not true...so, i meant that those studies should be abolished and hypothesis should stand firm above facts (proven theories)...or else, those papers should belong to the journal of bogus science...hope this makes you calm down :)...didn't mean to insult you or other good scientists that you work for...
    where did religion come in? i was talking about scientific reasoning to determine the validity of a study or the premises of a study... ;)
     
  21. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    Paulista,

    I never get offended...i just like to cause trouble :)

    However, I still disagree with you about foundations...You can't just sit somewhere and not do anything b/c you think the foundation is just a theory. That doesn't mean you can't build on top of it. If we said, "ok, evolution is just a theory..let's just forget about it..."...then nothing would get done.
    Sometimes when you are crossing a stream and trying not to drown, you need to jump on rocks....sometimes these rocks will be stable underfoot..sometimes they will slide out. However, each of these stepping stones is a path across the river. Even though one might be unstable...the next one you jump to might be able to hold 10 of you! It might be extremely stable...yet if you didn't make a little trip over one that was maybe not as stable (a theory), then you would have never have been able to jump to the farther stone (the solid one).

    Not sure if that made sense...i gotta get back to work :)

    I still love you Paulista....
    YOu are welcome in Scooby's Fan Club and you can send in your secondary application to CU in med school.
    :) :) :)
     
  22. Darwin

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    Paulista:

    I have to agree with Scooby on this one...BTW...very nice 500th post Scooby. Paulista, your statement about basing hypotheses on hypotheses is true. However, you must learn to distinguish between hypothesis, scientific theory, and fact. In science, there is no fact...we scientist refer to what we believe as fact in terms of theory. Ever heard of the THEORY of relativity...or the THEORY of gravity? We assume these to be "fact" until proven otherwise. Just the same, and to the exact extent, is the THEORY of evolution. Is one not to base hypotheses on the Theory of gravity? If I throw a ball in the air am I not supposed to hypothesize that it will fall?
    Hypotheses based on the theory of evolution need no explanation or further review for their basis...we in the scientific community assume this theory to be true until PROVEN otherwise, and thus can expound and theorize of possible hypotheses using the theory as a foundation. This is a difficult concept to grasp for many "fledgling" scientists...I know it was for me, especially in circumstances where science interrupts or overthrows your years of "what you thought to be true" through faith. This is just the way it works...
     
  23. Resident Alien

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    I should watch more PBS.
     
  24. Denilson

    Denilson Senior Member

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    I know what you guys are saying :)
    ...i think science is about uncovering new facts based on existing facts...building blocks must be firm for anything standing on it to stand firm...i think more studies should be designed to prove evolution (it's a very broad area, i know and it's very very hard to design experiments)...
    i have a hard time taking studies at their face value if their study is based on something shaddy....woldn't that make the study it self weak?...
    i love you scoobydoo. ( one of my favorites characters-scooby snack anyone) :)
    best wishes in med school...i'm sure you'll get in (i mean that :) )...
     
  25. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

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    I have to say this is one of the nicest discussions I've seen on SDN lately. This is what discussions should be like. no unwarranted slamming, no attacks on personal attributes, no nastiness.

    I'd also have to agree with Scoobs, although Paulista brings up some interesting facts. And i have to say, i've come from a background where evolution is "fact" and nothing else is really considered, although I went to a school in a very conservative area. I'm not a geneticist or evolutionary scientist, but in my classes, there's quite a bit of evolutionary evidence (i.e. origin of the mitochondria) and I know you say there's a bunch of further unknowns based on unknowns, but if there is a good, plausible conjecture then I don't think you can stop there. If that conjecture could be further applied to explain something else at a higher level, then I think it's reasonable to make that leap and have it taught and have PBS shows on it - the least it does is generates interest, which is essential for further prospective opportunities. Everyone realizes it's conjecture anyway, but it starts the ball rolling in a critical thinking direction, which is essential for scientific progress. (plus, gives researchers jobs :) )

    I think it would be very hard to justify my interest in science and medicine without accepting evolution as a belief. And in medicine, quite a lot of things are unknown as well. If we are to do as you say, Paulista, does that mean we should stop trying to advance treatment and ideas just because things are unknown? Of course not.

    Anyway, I love PBS. But I really hate those damn pledge people
     
  26. johnthestreak

    johnthestreak master of disaster

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  27. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member

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    And you wonder why you never get any private messages? :rolleyes: For those of you who are confused, refer to JOHNBOY'S Thread in the Lounge.
     
  28. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    Johnthestreak,

    I would so love to meet you in person...and we would see who is a bigger nerd. I happen to like PBS...so what? I have a life outside of it too.
    Are you going to be at any of my interviews...I seriously want to know who you are...
     
  29. emdeetwobee

    emdeetwobee Member

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    Howdy, I'm back from some NY interviews!
    Anyway, I watched Evolution and read some of your arguments and here are my two cents...

    1. Over long periods of time, new genes can arise from pre-existing genes. The mere fact is that we can do this in the laboratory with ligases and recombinases suggest that there is a chance nature does the same things. The only thing that makes it hard for us to prove is the fact that it takes long periods of time (in accordance to the probability of good mutations, which someone claimed to be 1% or less). Junk genes for example may give clues to the randomness of natural selection among genes. And since there is variability between each person's junk genes, it is safe to say that the process of new gene formation could be going on. Combine that with natural selection in the real world, and we get a very sound theory. I'm not taking anything away from religion, but science is much more devoted to the truth while religion is much more devoted to happiness. As one would say, if you want to be content, believe. If you want the truth, inquire. Religion is useful for ethics and morality, while science functions to better understanding and application.

    2. I find it interesting that a successful matriarchal society is one based on sex and a patriarchal society is one based on violence. More philosophically, a matriarchal society may be one where the goal is to gain pleasure while that of a patriarchal society is the avoidance of pain. There might be some truth that in a primitive society, if the conditions are right, groups of women bond easily than groups of men. But the struggle lies on whether these bonds are good enough to counter male hormonal aggression. While the authors of the show seemed to portray fascination with banobo society, I might disagree that peace may not be nature's way, as the lack of female choosiness and male competition stagnates evolutionary emergence of quality genes. But, with the way we are now, is evolutionary theory chauvinistic? It can be implied that if females conitnue to be choosy and males continue to fight and hone attractive traits, then would natural selection work faster (in a grand scale, of course) on males than females? Sex trait lethalities for example are more common in men, simply because of their genetic makeup... but the tradeoff fore lethality is selection. This is in a genetic perspective. Add the behavioral perspective, we see male competition to act the same way, and so if the natural urge of women are to select from the pool, there will be a tendency for a more aggressive selection on males. It becomes clear why we began in a patriarchal society... honing traits such as innovation, intelligence, fighting, etc., superseded the primal reason for sex into a societal reason for leadership, protection of the many and organization.

    I would like very much for scientists to continue to study chimp and banobo society and chart each societies' evolutions.

    3. Undeniably, near perfect forms of life are already in existence... bacteria. Perfect, as defined to be the property to be the most resilient, self-sufficient and adaptable life forms. In fact, I believe that we are not evolving, rather we are devolving in a sense. Intelligence, strength, mobility, cellular associations, societal associations, etc. are all selective traits tailored to accommodate certain deficiencies.

    4. Finally, there is nothing nerdy about PBS. Notice that PBS do not have useless ads and other negative effects of media. Those who do not recognize this significance are presumably ignorant and would be one easily swayed by propaganda.
     
  30. jasmine

    jasmine Member

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    Oh my God that exchange was just too funny, p4md. John... you're weird.
     
  31. kspillman

    kspillman Member

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    emdeetwobee
    I am not about to get into a conversation about science vs religion but to say something as blatently wrong as that! I know there are people who look to religion to give them that warm fuzzy feeling inside, but TRUE believers of faith know this is not what it is about. It is in fact about understanding and application and above all TRUTH! What better way to learn about something than from its creator?

    That being said,
    johnthestreak
    I guess watching the "love cruise" is a great exercise of that time you don't want to waste. ;)

    KIM
     
  32. johnthestreak

    johnthestreak master of disaster

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    haha this is too funny! i can't believe that ya'll have nothing better to do on your weekends than reply to my "offensive" message.
    scooby- i would love to "meet" you. what are you trying to do? pick me up? yea, i don't swing that way buddy? sorry
    all you liberals in cali are the same. that's a shame, so misled.

    by the way, love cruise is officially my new favorite show, i don't know who was trying to "diss" me for that one, but you were cool in trying to do so.

    hey yea, and if anyone still wants to send me a personal message go to the lounge like that one dude said, he's cool too.

    hey thumbs up everyone!
     
  33. johnthestreak

    johnthestreak master of disaster

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    update---
    my girlfrirend just called my a nerd, so i am now counted among your ranks.
    good night my fellow nerds.
     
  34. cm7b5

    cm7b5 Senior Member

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    What's a nerd?
     
  35. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    john,

    Yea..I don't swing that way either (haven't you seen application? I only accept women :))...I wasn't talking about meeting you in that sense which is obvious but you just like to play the dumbsh!t...

    Where did this liberal argument come in?
    And how does that make us all the same?
    What in the hell are you talking about?
     
  36. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member

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    Don't waste your time with johnboy-- you're dealing with a guy who has to mention his imaginary girlfriend so that he can deny that "love cruise" is his one and only source of cheap thrills. :rolleyes: :D
     

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