I met with my pre-health advisor today I want to know if what he said true

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lanig91

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First of all I'm a sophomore psychology major.
My pre-health advisor while he didn't actually tell me to switch majors it was implied.
He said that even if I had a 4.0 as a psych major that it will still look "average" and will not look as good as say a 3.4 bio major or a 3.0 engineering major.
He also said that A and B students probably won't score higher than a 24 on the MCAT because they are "average" test takers.
He also said that people with lower GPA's who worked full time and volunteered will look better than those with higher GPA's who didn't work full time.
Also, he said if I didn't take anatomy I have no hope of getting a good bio score.
He emphasized that verbal is the most important section.

My question is, is my major really that much of a problem?
Also I have no time to take anatomy because i want to take my MCAT summer before senior year and next year I have to finish up my prereqs with Orgo and Physics.
Also is anything else he said true?
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Literally every single thing he said is completely wrong.

Don't worry about taking anatomy, keep your psych major, and don't talk to him anymore unless you need a committee letter or something (at the very least only pretend to listen to him.)
 
Thank you =) And I do believe he's on the committee to write the recommendation letter.
He just made me feel horrible about myself
 
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lanig91 said:
My pre-health advisor while he didn't actually tell me to switch majors it was implied.
Click to expand...
Disregard this suggestion. Stick with the major that interests you.

lanig91 said:
He said that even if I had a 4.0 as a psych major that it will still look "average" and will not look as good as say a 3.4 bio major or a 3.0 engineering major.
Click to expand...
Mostly wrong, with a small grain of truth. (Yes, difficulty of major is taken into consideration, but not to make up for disparities of 0.5+ in GPA)

lanig91 said:
He also said that A and B students probably won't score higher than a 24 on the MCAT because they are "average" test takers.
Click to expand...
Again, wrong. MCAT performance is loosely correlated with GPA, but there is enough variance where it is imprudent to gauge one's test-taking ability based on GPA.

lanig91 said:
He also said that people with lower GPA's who worked full time and volunteered will look better than those with higher GPA's who didn't work full time.
Click to expand...
This is mostly true. Though you don't have to work full time (that's a bit extreme), generally you should try to keep a full plate of ECs throughout your undergraduate career.

lanig91 said:
Also, he said if I didn't take anatomy I have no hope of getting a good bio score.
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Yeah, because you'll never see anatomy in med school, so you should just forget about learning it now. I also avoid any class that I don't think I'll do well in. :rolleyes:

lanig91 said:
He emphasized that verbal is the most important section.
Click to expand...
There is no 'most important section,' you need to have a good overall score, with solid scores in each sub-section.
 
aSagacious said:
Mostly wrong, with a small grain of truth. (Yes, difficulty of major is taken into consideration, but not to make up for disparities of 0.5+ in GPA)
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Yes, but the comparison between a biology major and a psychology major is complete crap as well.
This is mostly true. Though you don't have to work full time (that's a bit extreme), generally you should try to keep a full plate of ECs throughout your undergraduate career.
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"Mostly true" isn't the way I would put it... Yes you want to show that you were able to handle multiple commitments, but as you said the "full time job" example is extreme and stupid and the applicant with the higher GPA (which will be seen first) will almost always have the advantage provided they did other things. The applicant that had to work full time to put themselves through school will receive accommodations for that but not so far as to get a pity vote above a better-performing applicant.
 
Yeah pretty much everything he said is either wrong or pulled out of god knows where. I'd avoid this guy from now on.

REMEMBER NOTHING CAN MAKE UP FOR A POOR MCAT + LOW GPA.

NOTHING.

YOU CAN CURE AIDS AND STOP THE WAR IN LIBYA BUT YOU STILL WON'T GET IN WITH A POOR MCAT/LOW GPA (HYPERBOLE FOR THE SMARTASSES).

I've seen too many good friends suffer the consequences of believing "if I volunteer 4000 hours I can make up for my 3.2/25!!!" NO. YOU. CAN'T. Unless you are very fond of the Caribbean.
 
Use your advisor to make sure you do correctly whatever your school requires you to do to get a committee letter and do your own research/check SDN for any actual advice. Mine is the same way -- not just useless but sometimes worse than useless since taking their advice might actually make your application weaker.

Taking anatomy won't help get a good BS score -- it will help you with practically none of the bio questions. The one thing that was sort of right is about verbal...not that it's the most important but it can tend to be the one that drags your score down and can be the hardest to improve. This is, of course, a generalization that may or may not apply at all to you individually.
 
Most of what he said is wrong w/ a grain of truth, in my understanding.

lanig91 said:
First of all I'm a sophomore psychology major.
My pre-health advisor while he didn't actually tell me to switch majors it was implied.
He said that even if I had a 4.0 as a psych major that it will still look "average" and will not look as good as say a 3.4 bio major or a 3.0 engineering major.

For prestige of school and of major combined, we might be talking a .2-.3 adjustment across the spectrum and, honestly, that's probably pushing it. The fact is that adcoms have no way of knowing the difficulty of any given program at a given school. As a result, they're not likely to "adjust" your GPA.

He also said that A and B students probably won't score higher than a 24 on the MCAT because they are "average" test takers.

True...sorta. The average MCAT score is a 25 and the average student taking the MCAT has around a 3.4 GPA. Statistically, if you have a 3.4 GPA, you would expect to get about a 25, but in reality this isn't necessarily true. If you play with the MCAT Estimator on the MCAT forum (or linked in my sig), you an see what the stats tell you you "should" get (keep in mind that we aren't only using GPA here but also previous standardized test scores, since GPA alone, while a moderate predictor, isn't very reliable without other data to verify it). In reality, for most people, this has been shown to at least be close (as it should be) but it is by no means absolute. Takeaway message: Never look at your GPA as a limiting factor in your ability to succeed on the MCAT. Never.

He also said that people with lower GPA's who worked full time and volunteered will look better than those with higher GPA's who didn't work full time.

Well... probably...but only if we're talking about the difference between a 4.0 and a 3.9. A 3.9 who also worked 40-50 hrs as a career ED Tech to pay for college out of pocket and then managed to a pull 3.9 with a rigorous academic load probably will look better than a 4.0 who did nothing but study for 4 years. That being said, a 3.5 who worked full-time isn't going to suddenly be competing w/ 3.7 students just b/c he was working. Does that make sense? (In other words, have ECs; don't "just go to school".)

Also, he said if I didn't take anatomy I have no hope of getting a good bio score.
Umm... no. Physio, maybe, since probably about 1/3 of the MCAT bio section's topics are physio, but anatomy is completely irrelevant.

He emphasized that verbal is the most important section.
This is probably true or close to it. BS and VR are generally considered more important than PS (per the AAMC survey), which is more important than the WS. In addition, VR tends to be resistant to studying, making it a good measure of intelligence and communication abilities.


My question is, is my major really that much of a problem?

Nope. Psych is a pretty common pre-med major.

Also I have no time to take anatomy because i want to take my MCAT summer before senior year and next year I have to finish up my prereqs with Orgo and Physics.
Also is anything else he said true?
Click to expand...

Some of what he said is sometimes true. None of what he said is always true and some of what he said is always false. If you understood that, you shouldn't have too much trouble on the MCAT.

One thing I would suggest fitting into your schedule would be some literature classes. Getting used to that kind of reading will likely help your VR score. You should be able to manage 2 classes on top of physics and ochem each semester. My suggestion would be to make one of those physio one semester and biochem (1-semester) the other and then an advanced comp class one sem and a lit class the other or 2 lit classes (1 each semester).

Good luck!
 
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gettheleadout said:
"Mostly true" isn't the way I would put it... Yes you want to show that you were able to handle multiple commitments, but as you said the "full time job" example is extreme and stupid and the applicant with the higher GPA (which will be seen first) will almost always have the advantage provided they did other things. The applicant that had to work full time to put themselves through school will receive accommodations for that but not so far as to get a pity vote above a better-performing applicant.
Click to expand...


I think the point he (the poster you responded to, not the adviser) was trying to make is that it IS important to have demonstrated emotional maturity, responsibility, and ability to do well with long-term commitments like a job outside of academia. This type of performance can be demonstrated in many forms and often does get very serious consideration, along with GPA/MCAT. The evidence for this is the thousands of 3.0-3.5 students who get accepted over 3.5-4.0 students each year. Its not the norm, but nor is it rare.

Therefore an applicant with a 3.4 GPA and respectable MCAT may indeed be at an advantage over a ~3.8 student who spent maybe 10 hours a week max on extracurricular stuff and had all the time in the world after that to study. He may be at an advantage if the particulars of his application + interview sufficiently impress an ADCOM. You can't say that a 3.7 applicant "performed" better overall than a 3.3 applicant, because GPA is only one, albeit heavily weighted in normal circumstances, measure of performance.

Plus, there is just something about steady employment that makes it more significant than a volunteer gig. It's more concrete and less flexible/forgiving, and when **** hits the fan in life you can't just drop it for a few months like some other extracurriculars.
 
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I also have another question I haven't quite started clinical volunteer work I plan on starting within the next couple months... will this be an adequate amount?

I'm also involved in a couple clubs around my campus and next year I hope to be a Resident Assistant. Would that be considered leadership?

I also have to complete a year of undergrad research for my honors college requirement, is this a good amount of research to have?
 
lanig91 said:
First of all I'm a sophomore psychology major.
My pre-health advisor while he didn't actually tell me to switch majors it was implied.
He said that even if I had a 4.0 as a psych major that it will still look "average" and will not look as good as say a 3.4 bio major or a 3.0 engineering major.
He also said that A and B students probably won't score higher than a 24 on the MCAT because they are "average" test takers.
He also said that people with lower GPA's who worked full time and volunteered will look better than those with higher GPA's who didn't work full time.
Also, he said if I didn't take anatomy I have no hope of getting a good bio score.
He emphasized that verbal is the most important section.

My question is, is my major really that much of a problem?
Also I have no time to take anatomy because i want to take my MCAT summer before senior year and next year I have to finish up my prereqs with Orgo and Physics.
Also is anything else he said true?
Click to expand...

Your pre-health advisor is really funny. Sounds like he didn't have a 3.5+ GPA and hated life.
 
aSagacious said:
Disregard this suggestion. Stick with the major that interests you.


Mostly wrong, with a small grain of truth. (Yes, difficulty of major is taken into consideration, but not to make up for disparities of 0.5+ in GPA)


Again, wrong. MCAT performance is loosely correlated with GPA, but there is enough variance where it is imprudent to gauge one's test-taking ability based on GPA.


This is mostly true. Though you don't have to work full time (that's a bit extreme), generally you should try to keep a full plate of ECs throughout your undergraduate career.


Yeah, because you'll never see anatomy in med school, so you should just forget about learning it now. I also avoid any class that I don't think I'll do well in. :rolleyes:


There is no 'most important section,' you need to have a good overall score, with solid scores in each sub-section.
Click to expand...

Bro. About the comment regarding seeing anatomy in med school, you are kind of wrong there. In fact, anatomy (i.e. gross anatomy) is the most difficult medical school ccourse there is.
 
lanig91 said:
I also have another question I haven't quite started clinical volunteer work I plan on starting within the next couple months... will this be an adequate amount?
Click to expand...
The average applicant reports 100-150 hours of clinical volunteering (perhaps accumulated at a rate of 4 hrs/wk).

lanig91 said:
I'm also involved in a couple clubs around my campus and next year I hope to be a Resident Assistant. Would that be considered leadership?
Click to expand...
The categories for your EC activities are arbitrary labels, you may place it wherever it sounds most appropriate. So long as you describe in the proper context, it could be seen as leadership (in the descriptive paragraph for your RA position, talk about what leadership-related chores entailed).

lanig91 said:
I also have to complete a year of undergrad research for my honors college requirement, is this a good amount of research to have?
Click to expand...
Yep, that would be about average as well. Publications (if possible) are gravy, but by no means necessary.
 
aSagacious said:
Absolutely. Much better to take it in a low-risk environment (undergrad) for the practice, so you'll have a decent grasp of the vocab when the real deal rolls around (med school).
Click to expand...
cool beans. Thanks.
 
aSagacious said:
Absolutely. Much better to take it in a low-risk environment (undergrad) for the practice, so you'll have a decent grasp of the vocab when the real deal rolls around (med school).
Click to expand...
I disagree with this logic. How is taking anatomy in undergrad low risk? Yeah getting a C in anatomy as an undergrad is going to look real good to med schools.

Take the easiest GPA-boosting-est courses you can in undergrad. I did not do this and all my friends did and they are cruising to med school getting multiple acceptances with their 4.0 GPAs, yet crap MCAT scores. My MCAT saved me, but you may not be so lucky and it's much easier to get a cushy GPA to boost a weak MCAT than the other way around.
 
if so, why not take it senior year. Make him/her happy. Get better recs. Win-ein.
 
CattleBruiser said:
I disagree with this logic. How is taking anatomy in undergrad low risk? Yeah getting a C in anatomy as an undergrad is going to look real good to med schools.

Take the easiest GPA-boosting-est courses you can in undergrad. I did not do this and all my friends did and they are cruising to med school getting multiple acceptances with their 4.0 GPAs, yet crap MCAT scores. My MCAT saved me, but you may not be so lucky and it's much easier to get a cushy GPA to boost a weak MCAT than the other way around.
Click to expand...

Why are you supposing that everyone who takes anatomy as an undergrad gets a C? I got a 4.0, because I anticipated the difficulty of the course and allocated my time accordingly.

While dodging difficult classes may have worked for your friends, have they ever considered taking classes that might help them learn something related to medicine? What harm is reinforcing your anatomy background if you can achieve a decent grade in doing so? I absolutely disagree with your methodology.
 
aSagacious said:
Why are you supposing that everyone who takes anatomy as an undergrad gets a C? I got a 4.0, because I anticipated the difficulty of the course and allocated my time accordingly.

While dodging difficult classes may have worked for your friends, have they ever considered taking classes that might help them learn something related to medicine? What harm is reinforcing your anatomy background if you can achieve a decent grade in doing so? I absolutely disagree with your methodology.
Click to expand...
Where did I say everyone will get a C? Obviously people will get As. But if the course is so difficult as you say, which is your whole rationale for the OP to get a preview of anatomy in undergrad, then it is logical to assume people will have trouble. Otherwise, if it's such a breeze to get an A why bother with a preview in undergrad? Hell, even if you work hard and manage your time accordingly and can get an A, what's stopping you from doing the same in med school? Just manage your time well as you say.

Your second paragraph is just silly. Yes you can take a more challenging class, but it's not worth an A in an easier class if you get a B or lower. I am speaking from the other side of this issue...I'm the guy that placed out of all first year science classes and regret it because I could have retaken those courses and gotten easy As and a much higher GPA. My friends did not place out of anything, got As in those intro courses, and have sky high GPAs.

And let's be honest, don't act like the classes you take in undergrad teach you anything about medicine. You probably meant that as a joke.
 
I'm kind of on the fence with anatomy because well he teaches anatomy and physiology and is the only professor at my school who does so and if he's this kind of advisor I can imagine what type of professor he'll be.
But I probably will take it my senior year once I have more time
 
lanig91 said:
But I probably will take it my senior year once I have more time
Click to expand...
Yea if you're applying senior year you actually will have less time. Applying takes up a huge amount of your time...more than I had ever anticipated so keep that in mind.
 
CattleBruiser said:
And let's be honest, don't act like the classes you take in undergrad teach you anything about medicine. You probably meant that as a joke.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not explicitly, but it's certainly worthwhile to take a bunch of non-prereq science courses (anatomy, pharmacology, neuro, reproductive physio, cardio, GI physio, etc) in your undergrad to make your transition to med school easier. You said yourself, had you taken the freshman-level pre-req classes instead of testing out they would've been essentially review. While the med school classes won't be a verbatim review of your undergrad classes, it sure can't hurt to come in with some idea of the fundamentals.
 
aSagacious said:
Perhaps not explicitly, but it's certainly worthwhile to take a bunch of non-prereq science courses (anatomy, pharmacology, neuro, reproductive physio, cardio, GI physio, etc) in your undergrad to make your transition to med school easier. You said yourself, had you taken the freshman-level pre-req classes instead of testing out they would've been essentially review. While the med school classes won't be a verbatim review of your undergrad classes, it sure can't hurt to come in with some idea of the fundamentals.
Click to expand...
Yea that is true, and I am even more impressed that your undergrad school offers pharmacology, cardio, and GI physio courses.
 
lanig91 said:
First of all I'm a sophomore psychology major.
My pre-health advisor while he didn't actually tell me to switch majors it was implied.
1-He said that even if I had a 4.0 as a psych major that it will still look "average" and will not look as good as say a 3.4 bio major or a 3.0 engineering major.
2-He also said that A and B students probably won't score higher than a 24 on the MCAT because they are "average" test takers.
3-He also said that people with lower GPA's who worked full time and volunteered will look better than those with higher GPA's who didn't work full time.
4-Also, he said if I didn't take anatomy I have no hope of getting a good bio score.
5-He emphasized that verbal is the most important section.
Also is anything else he said true?
Click to expand...

1-That is quite an overstatement. While you are generally expected to have a higher GPA in a social science major, it is only slight. It certainly is not on the order of .6 (maybe .1 or .2). It probably varies between ADCOM's
2-Unless your school is ridiculously easy to get those grades, that is dumb. Don't even give that statement any thought. There are 4.0's that get 25, and 3.0's that get 38.
3-Only if that 3.9 student did nothing else. If you worked 30hrs/week, volunteered, and got a 3.5 that might look better than a 3.9 with nothing else going on.
4-That's just completely incorrect. Moving on...
5-As someone alluded to, BS and VR are slightly favored, but not that much.
 
OP, I largely got the same kind of 'advice' at my school. I was a psych major, got almost all As in my science courses (except for 2), and got accepted to med school. Don't change your major unless you really want to. I've talked to many adcoms that said they don't consider the difficulty of the major when looking at GPAs. I think the main argument is to choose a major you enjoy so you can do really well in it. Just make sure you do well in your basic science courses as well and do well on the MCAT.
 
Vandy Premed said:
1-That is quite an overstatement. While you are generally expected to have a higher GPA in a social science major, it is only slight. It certainly is not on the order of .6 (maybe .1 or .2). It probably varies between ADCOM's
2-Unless your school is ridiculously easy to get those grades, that is dumb. Don't even give that statement any thought. There are 4.0's that get 25, and 3.0's that get 38.
3-Only if that 3.9 student did nothing else. If you worked 30hrs/week, volunteered, and got a 3.5 that might look better than a 3.9 with nothing else going on.
4-That's just completely incorrect. Moving on...
5-As someone alluded to, BS and VR are slightly favored, but not that much.
Click to expand...

6-PROFIT!!

aSagacious said:
Go Green! (Mich St)
Click to expand...

Ahem.


Go Blue.
 
medzealot said:
Go Blue.
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Who, these guys?

blue1.jpg


... you would
 
aSagacious said:
Perhaps not explicitly, but it's certainly worthwhile to take a bunch of non-prereq science courses (anatomy, pharmacology, neuro, reproductive physio, cardio, GI physio, etc) in your undergrad to make your transition to med school easier. You said yourself, had you taken the freshman-level pre-req classes instead of testing out they would've been essentially review. While the med school classes won't be a verbatim review of your undergrad classes, it sure can't hurt to come in with some idea of the fundamentals.
Click to expand...

It really doesn't help. Undergraduate courses in medical subjects are generally so unrelated to how medicine is actually practiced that they're basically useless for 'transitioning' to medical school. In any event if you're smart enough not to wreck your GPA on tough premedical classes then you're smart enough not to need the help transitioning. On the other hand it CAN hurt. It hurts if you take classes that are more rigerous than your peers and end with a poor GPA that keeps you out of medical school it can kill your career.
 
Adaggiote said:
Bro. About the comment regarding seeing anatomy in med school, you are kind of wrong there. In fact, anatomy (i.e. gross anatomy) is the most difficult medical school ccourse there is.
Click to expand...

it is only the most difficult for some. it really depends on the school, and the student. some people are better with spatial relationships than others, which is certainly the biggest advantage you can have in med school anatomy. having had the undergraduate version isn't even close. even the people who have had cadaver-based anatomy previously are still working very hard.

frankly i believe the reason it has such a vile reputation is because it is difficult, it is a first year course, and that for many people, it's the first time that they've ever been faced with the prospect that they might fail no matter how hard they work. it's traumatizing.

Perrotfish said:
It really doesn't help. Undergraduate courses in medical subjects are generally so unrelated to how medicine is actually practiced that they're basically useless for 'transitioning' to medical school. In any event if you're smart enough not to wreck your GPA on tough premedical classes then you're smart enough not to need the help transitioning. On the other hand it CAN hurt. It hurts if you take classes that are more rigerous than your peers and end with a poor GPA that keeps you out of medical school it can kill your career.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
Perrotfish said:
It really doesn't help. Undergraduate courses in medical subjects are generally so unrelated to how medicine is actually practiced that they're basically useless for 'transitioning' to medical school.
Click to expand...
I am but a lowly pre-med, so I have no experience with med school coursework (yet:xf:). However, considering the fact that the information is cumulative, I'd like to think that the more exposure to the material the better. My point was simply that it would be advantageous to understand a few things about genetics, pharmacology, anatomy, etc in order to make the barrage of info during 1st year less painful (even if only slightly).

Perrotfish said:
In any event if you're smart enough not to wreck your GPA on tough premedical classes then you're smart enough not to need the help transitioning. On the other hand it CAN hurt. It hurts if you take classes that are more rigerous than your peers and end with a poor GPA that keeps you out of medical school it can kill your career.
Click to expand...

Valid point, but I've actually found that upper level sciences are easier (to get a good grade in) than my basic pre-reqs. Granted anatomy, specifically, is a tough one... but to categorize all upper-level science classes as "hazardous to GPA; stay away" is probably a bit dramatic.
 
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