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I need opinions on B.S./MD programs Please

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by WizardHowl, Apr 3, 2004.

  1. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    I'm an 18 year old Senior in HS, and I've been accepted into the two different B.S./M.D. programs. However I'm really torn and I don't know which ones to choose:

    NEOUCOM (under grad at Kent), This is a 6 year program.

    University of Cincinnatti (undergrad and med school at both, 8 years)

    Cincinnatti seems to have more prestige, but I also do like the 6 year program as well.

    What would you guys suggest?
     
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  3. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    I would say that if you have to pick one, I would go with the 8 year program simply because college is supposed to be a lot of fun and it would be a shame to do rush through it in two years. Enjoy your time.
    Many people would discourage you from going into a link program but if you are possitive that's what you want to do then you should take the sure thing instead of going through the hassle and stress of applying later on.
     
  4. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    Why would people discourage link programs? I'm just wondering, I mean Cincinnatti is a great medical school that people would apply to normally anyway.
     
  5. Buckeye(OH)

    Buckeye(OH) 5K+ Member
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    Cincinnati only has one T in it first of all :)


    Secondly, I have talked to people in the NEOUCOM program and more than the majority of them felt like all they did for the first two years was study.

    I don't think its worth it, I mean, why the rush? You are 18, I'm sure you will probably live another 60 years....dont be in such a hurry.



    Adrian
     
  6. jlee9531

    jlee9531 J,A,S
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    enjoy college.

    it was the greatest 4 years of my life....

    dont miss out on a lifelearning experience.
     
  7. Trekkie963

    Trekkie963 Senior Member
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    There have been several discussions about BS/MD programs on here already (some very recently). Do a search to get some advice about the programs in general.

    As far as between those two programs, I too would recommend the 8-year one.
     
  8. Flack Pinku

    Flack Pinku U lookin at my glasses??
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    Congrats first of all!

    Alright, as a BS/MD student, you'll have more free time as compared to traditional pre-med, especially with the 8 year program (not as true for the 6 year one). If you can handle the free time without going insane or too lazy, then the 8 year program may be for you.

    If on the other hand, you're very interested in starting med school, and can't wait to do it (nothing wrong with this either)... then the 6 year one is for you. Believe me, I couldn't stand college. The whole having fun and "learning experience" thing took about 1 year to die out, and then after that, it was all daily routine.

    Two years is a LOT, or not depending on your prespective. To me, its a lot, so I'd choose the 6 year program.

    You WILL have free time in the 6 year program, just not as much as the 8 year program. Of course, be careful--too much free time may make you lazy, which might be worse than anything else!

    As for the maturity thing--thats a non-issue. They already determined you're good enough to give an assurance to, so they know more about how mature you are than any of us on this board ever can.

    Bottom line--go for the 6 year one if you're especially curious to get into med school soon or if you're fast-and-furious. Again, nothing wrong with either choice, just purely a matter of personal preference.

    Best of luck! :D
     
  9. japhy

    japhy Ski Bum
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    I want to preface that this is only anecdotal evidence, but I have talked to a handful of students that have done the combined programs. Some did a 6 year program, others did a 7 year program.

    Invariably, the people that did the 6 year program hated it. They felt like they missed out entirely on college and by the time they started their med school coursework they were totally burnt out. They had a very difficult time with the med school years because of this.

    All of them commented on the stress they felt to keep up their grades or be kicked out of the program.

    So while there are certainly several advantages to pursuing a combined program, there are definite disincentives to choosing this path. But the choice is yours...
     
  10. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    Thanks guys for all your opinions! I still don't really know though lol. I'm definenlty not a party guy, so I won't miss that part at all about college, if thats what you're talking about as "experience". The only thing I'm worried about is if I should go for prestige (Cinci) or quickness (neoucom).
     
  11. Trekkie963

    Trekkie963 Senior Member
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    Incidentally, what are your non-combined program college options?
     
  12. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    Well I know I really want to go into the combined degree ones (its just a matter of choosing), so I didn't apply anywhere where I wouldn't have too hard of a time getting in. I'm also in at Case, OSU, Rice, U of Mich, USC, Vanderbilt, and got rejected from Emory :p
     
  13. Trekkie963

    Trekkie963 Senior Member
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    See, I would eeeeeeasily choose Rice or Vanderbilt over the combined programs. If you can get into a combined program now, you won't have any trouble getting into the same or better med schools four years from now. I mean, neither of the ones you mentioned are especially prestigious or anything.

    Why is your heart set on a combined program?

    I think there are several people in this forum who turned down those programs and never looked back. Honestly, that's the path I'd recommend.
     
  14. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    I guess I have my heart set on a combined degree program because I have a little fear that in college I'll just totally suck and as a result not be able to apply for med school which is the profession I know I want to do for sure. Also I dont' it to be so stressful during my undergrad, if I wasn't in combined program I would be afraid to do research and a lot of EC's, cuz it might affect my gpa. If I went undergrad normally, I would probably just study all the time lol.
     
  15. Flack Pinku

    Flack Pinku U lookin at my glasses??
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    Totally understandable... nothing wrong with this line of thought.

    Anyway go for NEOUCOM... I don't know if the difference in prestige is THAT much between the schools you're mentioning, whereas the time difference clearly is.

    Plus I bet you get a scholarship or something going to one of the combined ones, which you'd not be getting at the private schools... am I right? (If so that's just an extra reason I'd think to choose this way).
     
  16. Trekkie963

    Trekkie963 Senior Member
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    Do you care where you go to undergrad? I mean, I would magine there are some pretty significant differences between the schools with the programs you got into and the other schools you mentioned. Wouldn't you be happier at certain school than at others? Wouldn't some schools give you opportunities that others wouldn't? I think that is the more immediate question.

    And honestly, if you found it in yourself to do well in high school, you will find it in yourself to do well in college also. You definitely do NOT have to study all the time to be a successful pre-med, and college is great, so I would not short change yourself on having the best undergrad experience you can before you head off to med school.
     
  17. youngin

    youngin Senior Member
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    Hey, I am in somewhat the same position. I got into the 8 year program at UCONN and have to decide where I want to go. I got into a bunch of good schools for undergrad and feel like you that I may not be able to get into a med school later if i do bad. But then i heard that although you may trade in a better med school for a guarantee med school, residencies have a lot of respect for those who are bs/md and do fairly well in them.
     
  18. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    Plus, the cincinnati program has so much freedom, and I'm really insterested in history and they actually encourage the students in the program to take non science majors, and just take the core science classes. Not that I would do that but it would definently make double majoring, or one minor very possible. And yes I agree neither are prestigious but Cincinnati has a pretty good rating. However I personally think ANY med school is good, they will continue to produce great doctors, so I don't really care if I don't go to a better med school than Cincinnati, because no matter what I'll still get to do what I want.
     
  19. Flack Pinku

    Flack Pinku U lookin at my glasses??
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    If you really wanna go to the 8 year program because you wanna major in history, then great do it. But if you think that the 2 years you'd save can be used at the end of your training when you're looking to settle down/repay your loans/starting family early, etc., then do NEOUCOM.

    Opportunities exist everywhere and anywhere. It takes the right eyes to recognize one and open it. You don't have to go to Rice/Vanderbilt to get into med school (unless that's where you WANT to).
     
  20. Trekkie963

    Trekkie963 Senior Member
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    Med schools in general encourage applicants to have non-science majors. It is a great misconception that pre-meds have to major in biology or something. You are going to learn the biology you need in medical school, so they would rather you spend your undergrad making yourself more well-rounded by studying something like history. The only science courses you need are the pre-med requirements to give you some foundation for med school, plus some other advanced courses just to show that you can handle them.

    If you are honest about not caring about the prestige of the med school you ultimately get into, then all the more reason you'll be able to enjoy yourself during college without being a grade-grubbing pre-med. Find a place where you can be happy and grow as an individual for the next four years, then worry about finding a med school that is right for you.
     
  21. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    I also applied to OSU's combined program. Theirs is 7 years, and its definetly my top choice. However we don't hear till like april 16? I got a full tuition scholarship plus 4500 year to OSU, so thats a big reason. Plus OSU is funnnnnn. hehe. I don't think I'll get accepted though because this one is hard to get into. I'll be happy to go to any combine program though, I honestly would.
     
  22. musiclink213

    musiclink213 My room is a mess
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    i got into a 7 year combined program and opted not to go. i didn't like the school where the undergrad was, it was too close to home and i wanted to get out. And, like you, i thought i was sure i wanted to go into medicine, that;s what i was doing, no questions asked. I got to college, and i've questioned my motives many times, but in the end, it all came back to medicine is the only thing i could see myself doing. But i know plenty of other people who were so set on doing medicine, it was their dream, etc. And now, they;ve decided it wasn't for them. So you may be sure now, but how sure can you say you'll be in a year or two from now?

    When you go to undergrad, you take classes in all different areas and explore so many different topics. You may take a class in an area you never even considered before, like anthropology or japanese literature, and find out that you love it so much more and would rather do something in that. It does happen a lot.

    but, if you want to know which program you pick because you are so convinced that medicine is for you, then go to whichever school you'll be happier at. The difference between 2 years isn't all that much. And if you go for the 8 year combined program, you would probably get the chance to take more classes you like. But in the end, it should be about where you'll be happier.
     
  23. Trekkie963

    Trekkie963 Senior Member
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  24. TheRussian

    TheRussian Life Size Mirror
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    To the OP: If the reason you are afraid of turning down a combined program is because you are afraid of "sucking" in school and not getting good enough grades consider the fact that even in the combined program you have to maintain a certain gpa or you get kicked out. So if you really end up doing poorly in college then it doesn't matter whether you are in a combined program or not, you won't get into med school.

    I'm not trying to say that that would happen, just that it shouldn't be your concern when deciding whether or not to go to a combined program.
     
  25. fullefect1

    fullefect1 Senior Member
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    I would kill to be in a 6 year program.
     
  26. IlianaSedai

    IlianaSedai Senior Member
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    Blech. The longer the better, in my opinion.

    6 years:
    Pros: Faster, cheaper
    Cons: More stressful, work harder

    8 years:
    Pros: More time, get to spend time studying stuff you like (taking black-and-white photography of squirrels, etc)
    Cons: More expensive, stuck in the same city for longer

    Between the two, I'd go to Cincinnati-- but before that, I'd go to the UNDERGRAD COLLEGE I liked best after visiting. As I said in another thread, you have to LIVE there for 2-4 years, so it may as well be a good one. Better to go to a college you love, than one you don't like just because your prospects seem a little easier afterward.

    Also, I really would NOT go to any program that has stringent GPA or MCAT minimum requirements, or any program that weeds out lots of its students before med school. That's ridiculous stress, why put yourself through it? Better to just go pre-med and apply, if that's the case.
     
  27. theprizefighter

    theprizefighter Senior Member
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    Hi, WizardHowl

    I got into a combined program in high school. It was supposedly perfect: 8 yrs, major in whatever you want, no MCAT, GPA requirement of just a 3.4. Really plum and easy.

    That said, I felt like I was limiting myself too early in life with respect to choosing med school. Also, the cost (40 k a year) wasn't my cup of tea. When I decided not to go, everyone thought I was crazy for giving up a "sure thing". Four yrs later, I got into 7 med schools thru the regular pre-med pathway including Pitt, G-town, and even Cincy so I feel like my options are much improved. I'm going to Pitt which is ten times better than the med school I would have gone to out of high school.

    Cincy's got a great med school and you'd do well there but you might be limiting yourself. Make sure you are doing the program cos you really like it not cos you are scared that you won't get into a kick ass med school thru the regular pre-med route. Just my 0.02.

    tpf
     
  28. GBFKicks

    GBFKicks Senior Member
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    Hi, Wizard.... I would have to agree with the posters that say the 8 year program is your best option. The key to these programs is flexibility. The that I'm in is 7 to 9 years-- 9 years if you want to take some accept a scholarship (Rhodes, Fulbright, etc...) However, being in a program definitely takes a lot of pressure out of your premed/undergrad years. I think they make them more fun and you are open to take classes that you might not if you were worried about med schools seeing them in your transcript.
    The fact is, most people that get into these programs would eventually get into med school no matter what, but it's damn nice not having to worry about the MCATs, high GPAs, 5 million publications, etc... and having a normal college life.
    I'll be graduating next semester and starting the MPH part of a combined MD/MPH in the spring semester of 2005. After being here for this amount of time, I can tell you that the only negative aspect of the combined program is that it's a lot easier to slack off a bit when you know you're already in. This is a damn good negative, though.
     
  29. Roy7

    Roy7 Senior Member
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    I dont know about what people are saying - these opinions everyone is giving are related to individual preferences.

    Personally, I know a few people that went through 6 year programs (one at UMKC, one at Howard), and they both really enjoyed the undergrad - because each time they werent that stressed with the MCAT, or resume padding, or anything along those lines. They had free time to pursue their activities without fear of failure.

    But the reason I woudl do a 6 year program is because 2 years is a lot. That's two years of traveling, two years of making money, spending time with your family, or really enjoying life - I'd take that 2 years to 2 additional years of monotonous stressful undergraduate education.
     
  30. GBFKicks

    GBFKicks Senior Member
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    I disagree, but as you said, it's only an opinion. College is something that you get to do once. You can come back when you're 30 or something, but it's obviously not the same thing. I wouldn't give up my college experience for anything (make friends, meet people, have fun, and just plain enjoy the new experience) I don't understand how people can possibly enjoy 6 year programs. If I'm not mistaken, at UMKC you pay med school tuition all 6 years. You also have to go to school over the summer (I think every summer, in fact).
    Two years is a lot... a lot of fun in college, a lot of interesting classes that you can take, and a lot of time spent with good friends. All good reasons to do a 8 year program. As far as money goes... I think physicians make enough money that they can give up a couple of years early on to have some fun. If not, just work an extra couple of years at the end. What's the difference?
     
  31. amsomerv

    amsomerv Junior Member
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    Hey
    I am in the Neoucom program at Kent
    PM me if you have any specif questions, pros, cons etc
    I'd be happy to tell you what it's really like
     
  32. youngin

    youngin Senior Member
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    I opted out of a 7 year program because the 8 year program would allow me to apply to any medical school i wanted later. But you have solid medical schools so that will prolly be not be as big as a factor. 6 year is nice because you have time to pursue other things after med school if you wanted to.You can't really go wrong though. Keep us updated on your decision.
     
  33. 10minutes

    10minutes M.D.Candidate
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    When you are young, 2 years can be very valuable time. And I doubt that 6 year program is any harder than studying as a premed in undergrad. Personally I know a guy who did BS/MD program in GWU and according to him, he was very relaxed (especially mentally) compared to other premed students. He pointed out that most people in BS/MD program are happy with their decision unlike some people think. As long as you don't mind the school, you will be happy with your decision.
     
  34. alianwaar4

    alianwaar4 Junior Member
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    hi wizard...i think alot of us that got into bs/md programs are in the same dilemma...im turning down a great ivy league for unions 8 year med program with albany med...it boiled down to what i wanted to do more than anything else and that was to study medicine..having a peace of mind in undergrad is really important to me and i feel that in a med program i would have that, gluck to you :)
     
  35. bearpaw

    bearpaw celebrated member
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    If you were choosing between an ivy or a combined program, I think it would depend on what ivy and what program. However, you are picking between decent schools and an awesome 6 year program. Two years is alot of time to save...its not worth it just to go to rice or vanderbilt. They are both good schools, but there is little "wow" factor. I mean, if you're "wowed" by rice, would you explode when someone told you they went to harvard or princeton? Be real. Two years of saved tuition and TIME is huge. No stress for the first two years is also cool (no matter what anyone here says, good schools are harder to succeed at, but getting a 3.5 at where ever will be relatively easy).

    If you got into harvard, then you'd have to pick between saving two years and having that amazing experience. But come on, two years vs. rice? Rice is a double hit, its not a great name (good name, but low on the elite scale) its probably hard and you'll probably screw up a little (like most of us) and then all those dreams of HMS will be replaced with "will I get in anywhere?".

    Go with the sure thing. WIth those extra two years of medical salary under your belt, buy youself a ferrari and travel the world like a baller. Peace.
     
  36. BigBopper

    BigBopper Senior Member
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    Well I know quite a few people who completed NorthWestern's combined program back when it was 6 years as well as U Mich. They said it was actually the opposite of what you are saying. They only had to keep a 3.0 gpa to stay in the program. That's is hardly stress at all. If that is all I had to do I would have studied half as hard as I did. Plus even though they had to take the MCAT, the score didn't matter. So none of them studied for the test. Plus one of them graduated at 23 and was an orthopedic surgery attending at 28. Sounds pretty sweet to me :thumbup:
     
  37. Roy7

    Roy7 Senior Member
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    That's the vibe I got too. I know a lot of people that graduated 6 year programs, and all of them said they didnt feel stressed because they knew that if they slipped their advisors would work with them. They all seemed really relaxed and enjoyed their school - plus, in my opinion graduated with a medical degree before you're 24 is amazing!

    To that person talking about Harvard, how great an experience would it be if you were studying 24/7 to make sure you get that 40 MCAT and 4.0 GPA, with those booming recommendations and good extra activities? Cant be that much fun.
     
  38. alianwaar4

    alianwaar4 Junior Member
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    i agree with you roy...thats why im not going to harvard, in the long run if one wants to do clinical medicine, then its just a matter of performing on usmles and rotations...not the school you come out of :)
     
  39. Vandyfox

    Vandyfox Member
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    Wiz,
    I go to Vandy U-grad, and although I have been accepted to multiple med schools- my school's reputation is remarkably worthless in the eyes of Admissions Commitees (maybe i'm bitter 'cause I didn't get my #1). Our school has huge issues with grade deflation (I have a 3.55 and none of my pre-med friends are any higher). A lot of med schools refuse us because of our GPA's (which, obviously we can't help). I dominated my MCATs and had I the chance to do it all over again, I would have gone to a State School to get a better GPA.
    I would recommend spending 4 years of an undergraduate life- there's a lot to learn about yourself and other peeps, but when we all know we want to be Dr.'s, and you have this layed out for you on a silver platter, it looks pretty tasty. But don't make your decision too quickly. Talk to people who have experienced all of your options (good idea using this forum). PM me if you want to know more about Vanderbilt, although, if you are serious about becoming an M.D., I would not recommend the road through Nashville. Of all the intelligent/qualified people I have studied with here, it's an unfortunately short list of us who will actually call ourselves M1's next year.
    Playboy does, however, still rank us very high on the list of Private Party Schools, and "Male Friendly" (attractiveness of females) colleges. . . . .but our football team still really, really sucks.
     
  40. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    Hey guys! I want to thank you all for your comments. I got some great news! I actually got into the OSU EAP medical program, and thats where I'm going for sure. Basically I got full tuition and 4500 stipend each year for 4 years, for undergrad. No MCATS, as long as I maintain a 3.5 GPA, and I can do it in 3 or 4 years if I want. Plus my undergrad should be more relaxed being at OSU with such great things to do in Columbus, and the football games :) I'm really excited, I really think the OSU program is the best of both worlds (enjoying undergrad experience while not being stressed for applying to a GREAT med school). Thanks guys!
     
  41. synapse lapse

    synapse lapse tokyo robotic
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    I also agree that I would kill to be in an early acceptance program. I respectfully disagree with trekkie963 to choose Rice over a guarenteed deal. I see he is in Houston so he's probably a student there, I am also a student at Rice and love it here. I think that he is correct in saying that if you performed well at one of the more prestigious schools you would get in somewhere, but why lose a shot like this. My gf is in JAMP at another school (a state school) and let me say I would love to trade her places (though she tells me the same). It just seems to me that the hassle of applying and the MCAT is unnecesary if you know this is waht you want to do, especially if you like those schools. Of course, these are only opinions, and so you have to make your own decision. I hope that helped some.
     
  42. JohnDoe

    JohnDoe Junior Member
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    Unless you get into Northwestern, Case Western, or perhaps Brown, you will be wasting your talent in an accelerated program.

    check the match lists. people from 2nd tier accelerated programs rarely match well for residency. By in large, these programs are ploy used by crappy schools to lure in bright but knaive kids.

    If you are bright enough to gain acceptance to a direct med, you can surely just go to a regular undergrad school, do well there, maybe graduate early and move on to a reasonable medical school.

    On the other hand, you can disregard my comments if you're content to do primary care in some godforsaken rural area, don't care about going to a good place for residency etc.

    I speak to you with the insight of someone who knows bright people trapped in these programs. I also was set on going to one of these programs out of high school and was fortunate not to get accepted. At the time I thought life was over, but in hindsight I am much better for it. I am now going to attend a much better med school than the ones that I hoped to enter before. The opportunities seem much greater.
     
  43. GBFKicks

    GBFKicks Senior Member
    Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Congrats WizardHowl.... I think you'll have a great time there and the scholarship is very nice. At the same time, I wouldn't make a hasty decision... think thigs over a few times... Although, I would go with the program. :) :thumbup: :)
     
  44. Roy7

    Roy7 Senior Member
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    Where on earth did you get that info from? Doesnt make much sense to me - actually, now that I'm looking at some match lists from some "lesser schools", seems like you got it from your rectum.....

    Drexel:
    http://webcampus.med.drexel.edu/admissions/matchplacement.asp

    Florida:
    http://www.med.ufl.edu/oea/osa/Match2004/match04.htm

    Howard:
    http://zoey.med.howard.edu/studentcouncil/Alumni/hucm_2000_match_results.htm

    You know what, I guess the schools must be lying......

    Congrats to the OP
     
  45. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    JohnDoe, your conclusions seem a bit brash being that you probably haven't looked at other schools match list. I looked at OSU's and it is actually very good, and also people say ranking doesn't matter, but there has to be a reason why OSU is ranked higher than Brown. Brown only has prestigious undergrad which is totally different than med school.
     
  46. WizardHowl

    WizardHowl Junior Member
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    Also, I don't intend on being trapped in some "godforsaken rural area", although I do plan on doing pediatrics because after shadowing many doctors, thats what I loved. Its a little early to make my decision but thats what I'm leaning towards. So is there anything wrong with going into primary care?
     
  47. JohnDoe

    JohnDoe Junior Member
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    Roy7, no need to get so irrationally defensive.

    Just because students from these schools are matching somewhere doesn't mean that the match list is good. Upon reviewing the match lists that you provided what I see is a smattering of good programs in a sea of mediocre ones.

    If you look at the match list for any top ten or 20 school there will be a significant difference.

    Schools at that level also offer far more in the way of resources and connections and bright peers than places like NEOUCOM or UMKC. Why would smart kid want to go to a med school that is not even ranked in the top 50?!

    The point being: If you are bright enough to make it into a top 20 program in the same timeframe that accelerated med offers, you would be best served to do that.

    Finally, you are correct, Brown is not the best direct med program, but it still trumps this NEOUCOM nonsense. Additionally, Brown starts you at a good undergrad, so if you opt to apply to other med schools you have a strong pre-medical background.
     
  48. 10minutes

    10minutes M.D.Candidate
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    Apparently you are too much into "ranking" stuff. I know plenty of people who got into higher US News ranked programs but chose to come to my school. What's up with that?
     
  49. JohnDoe

    JohnDoe Junior Member
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    Of course it's not all about rankings. Rankings just provide an easy but rough point of reference. Of course if you're talking about a 40 slot difference in ranking, that definitely means something. That's what I'm talking about. Not the difference between Harvard at 1 and Wash U at 2.
     
  50. Fixed Gear

    Fixed Gear Highly Acetylated Locus
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    Congrats, Wizard. I am not going to pretend I know what's best for you and what decision will ultimately get you where you want, but I will say that as a Big-10 Alum, college can/should be a great time in your life. My school had a program for undergrads with guaranteed admission to the medical school, provided they maintain a 3.0, with no need to take the MCAT. The people I knew who did that program really got to grow into mature, well rounded people that had the passion and time to develop their interests outside school/being a pre-med.

    So best of luck to you at OSU.

    JohnDoe: there's no 'k' in naive, dingbat.
     
  51. seev99

    seev99 Senior Member
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    if u go to one of those accelerated programs, be sure to join a frat cuz otherwize it's gonna be all work and no play, and all those 6 years are gonna be one long experience...
     

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