I never understood the loss of empathy during medical training. Until now.

[TooMuchResearch]

Yes, but I think happiness is a lot of parts together. It isn't just a specialty. Everyone likes Surgery as you're working with your hands, actually doing something, etc. but there's a difference between liking it and loving it to the detriment of other things. In Surgery residency, you REALLY have to love it. I mean REALLY, but you don't just get to cut and you're done.

I don't know, maybe @Winged Scapula will be able to articulate what I'm saying better, as she actually made it to the top of the mountain or @DarknightX.

I've met some surgical residents who either hated their career choice or life in general, possibly secondary to their career choice. Nobody likes Dr. Grumpy.

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[jakeislove]

A perfect MCAT and grades don't mean someone has the emotional stability to be a doctor. Some just aren't cut out for it.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

.....

 

[Successful BM]

You'll be surprised. Some non-trads, especially those who came from an allied health field (nursing, EMS, techs of various sorts), generally think they have things figured out. Some of them are downright unteachable or do stupid crap like pimp fellow med students in front of attendings (despite knowing jack ****) or try to do stuff solo without telling their residents/attendings. They are generally less gunnerish (as stated above), but are irritating in their own unique way. Being aloof and acting like the clinical years are just a formality is just as bad as acting like the clinical years are Thunderdome.

Oh god, I hope I'm not this way. I just started M1, and I'm former EMS. However, I have the advantage of only being an EMT. I never feel the urge to show up my classmates or press an opinion. This is mostly because I'm used to being the lowest link in the food chain, so being a beta comes naturally. Do I know more about patient care than most of my classmates? Maybe. But if anyone were to ask me, I would say I know enough to know how much I don't know. Being arrogant isn't an option, because then I would embarrass myself. Being aloof isn't an option, because then I would be way behind. There are a couple of nurses in my class, and they seem like cool people. But I guess I'll see how things shake out when clinicals start.

 

[jakeislove]

You'll be surprised. Some non-trads, especially those who came from an allied health field (nursing, EMS, techs of various sorts), generally think they have things figured out. Some of them are downright unteachable or do stupid crap like pimp fellow med students in front of attendings (despite knowing jack ****) or try to do stuff solo without telling their residents/attendings. They are generally less gunnerish (as stated above), but are irritating in their own unique way. Being aloof and acting like the clinical years are just a formality is just as bad as acting like the clinical years are Thunderdome.

Nurses get their self-esteem stroked through ever step of their education. Medical students and residents (on the other hand) are reminded on a daily basis how much there is to learn.

Someone who went to school because they were sick and tired of being bossed around by clueless medical students and residents will be difficult to train or surprised at how much more information there is to medicine vs nursing. In most cases: Looking clueless or lost is a function of not having learned how to apply and correlate the huge amount of information required for passing Step exams or simply not having developed a comfort level in clinical scenarios.

 

[jdh71]

You have to look out for yourself first, when you've made it to a comfortable place then you can start giving a damn about other people. This is the way evolution has programmed us, is this what you're saying if so I agree.

That's part of it. I do think you are also figuring out how to deal with it all too.

I think many come to medical school to "save the world". But it can't be saved. It's broken. Sometimes you get the chance to "save" individual patients but that's usually only IF *they* let you.

There is a delicate balance.

 

[DermViser]

We could do what most of the rest of the world does and make residency and medical school a significantly longer but less grueling process. In many countries, medical school is 6 years and you are a junior doctor for 5-7 years, but you start right out of high school, so you end up finishing right around the same time as an American grad. Not going through the stress of the premedical process, having a prolonged curriculum, cutting out a lot of the BS we don't actually need in clinical practice, and making residency take longer in terms of years, but with significantly reduced weekly hours- I think these things could add up to making things a lot more bearable. They'll never happen, obviously, but I think a lot of the suck does come from packing so much learning into such a short period of time. That and the way the process basically selects for people that are willing to jump through hoops well and breaks anyone who does otherwise.

There are BS/MD programs that do just that (ask @PL198). I don't know if it really cuts down on the stress overall or it just transfers to the next step.

 

[DermViser]

That's part of it. I do think you are also figuring out how to deal with it all too.

I think many come to medical to "save the world". But it can't be saved. It's broken. Sometimes you get the chance to "save" individual patients but that's usually only IF *they* let you.

There a delicate balance.

I think what is shocking to students is how little power physicians have. If you work for a hospital, you have no power. The problem is that the patient still thinks you do and holds you to that standard.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

A perfect MCAT and grades don't mean someone has the emotional stability to be a doctor. Some just aren't cut out for it.

Not in SDN... Less than 30 MCAT, you should not be a doc.

 

[PL198]

There are BS/MD programs that do just that (ask @PL198). I don't know if it really cuts down on the stress overall or it just transfers to the next step.

I would say it's more grueling to do a bs/md. My 2 years of undergrad were quite a bit harder in my opinion than a trad undergrad situation would have been and I ended up in a lower quality school than I likely would have gone to had I gone trad, however I got the certainty of a conditional acceptance and had the benefit of having all the conditions I had to meet outlined before I even started undergrad. Going year round and then pulling 25 credit hours/semester is pretty tough, especially when you're 18. I worked my butt off though so I could graduate a semester early and have a summer before med school started which was great.

I had to miss my last day of HS to attend my first day of college, so that's kinda lolzy.

 

[DermViser]

I would say it's more grueling to do a bs/md. My 2 years of undergrad were quite a bit harder in my opinion than a trad undergrad situation would have been and I ended up in a lower quality school than I likely would have gone to had I gone trad, however I got the certainty of a conditional acceptance and had the benefit of having all the conditions I had to meet outlined before I even started undergrad. Going year round and then pulling 25 credit hours/semester is pretty tough, especially when you're 18. I worked my butt off though so I could graduate a semester early and have a summer before med school started which was great.

I had to miss my last day of HS to attend my first day of college, so that's kinda lolzy.

Oh, so the info in medical school wasn't really spread out then. They just hacked off 2 years of undergrad and then let you enter the 4 years of med school.

 

[DermViser]

A perfect MCAT and grades don't mean someone has the emotional stability to be a doctor. Some just aren't cut out for it.

It's easy to have that view if one is a Caribbean student. That's why the interview is there so that the only upside to a person isn't just their MCAT and grades.

Not in SDN... Less than 30 MCAT, you should not be a doc.

You disagree?

 

[PL198]

Oh, so the info in medical school wasn't really spread out then. They just hacked off 2 years of undergrad and then let you enter the 4 years of med school.

yes

 

[jdh71]

I think what is shocking to students is how little power physicians have. If you work for a hospital, you have no power. The problem is that the patient still thinks you do and holds you to that standard.

I think we do still have a lot of power on the individual level with patients but only really in how we interact with them and can potentially help them if they decide to involve themselves in the process. But you are correct in that we cannot give people lot of "free" anything or grease a lot of wheels (and maybe we shouldn't if every patients is basically as intrinsically valuable as the next)

The bottom line is that the kind of empathy and compassion that medical school want students to have isn't something that can be taught. It's something this needs to be developed on its own - figured out by each person on their own. I think schools would do better to be honest about all of this and instead of trying to force a square peg through a round hole acknowledge that all students will go through a cynical dark phase - lose effective compassion - and it should be underlined to try and hold onto whatever you can of the humanity then and not embrace the dark. Wait for the light. I think it would do a lot for those who think they are disillusioned to know it's going to get better.

 

[DermViser]

I had to miss my last day of HS to attend my first day of college, so that's kinda lolzy.

Wait, you were required to start immediately taking classes in the summer? Did you even get to attend your high school graduation? What if you came in with credit - could you skip it?

 

[PL198]

Wait, you were required to start immediately taking classes in the summer? Did you even get to attend your high school graduation? What if you came in with credit - could you skip it?

yeah, I mean I have a bachelor's so I had to get the same amount of credits as a trad would get in 4 years(not sure if that's standard or other programs just basically waive bachelor's requirement if you do the 2 years). I did attend graduation. If I had credit I could skip. I actually ended up with a bit too many credits I think like 150ish. I balled pretty hard in those days

 

[DermViser]

I think we do still have a lot of power on the individual level with patients but only really in how we interact with them and can potentially help them if they decide to involve themselves in the process. But you are correct in that we cannot give people lot of "free" anything or grease a lot of wheels (and maybe we shouldn't if every patients is basically aw intrinsically valuable as the next)

The bottom line is that the kind of empathy and compassion that medical school want students to have isn't something that can be taught. It's something this needs to be developed on its own - figured out by each person on their own. I think schools would do better to be honest about all of this and instead of trying to force a square peg through a round joke acknowledge that all students will go through a cynical dark phase - lose effective compassion - and it should be underlined to try and hold onto whatever you can of the humanity then and not embrace the dark. Wait for the light. I think it would do a lot for those who think they are disillusioned to know it's going to get better.

Yes, maybe on a 1:1 level. That being said, medicine is changing to where the establishment, is now saying that physicians are responsible for the health of the population and is a steward of resources and that in caring for individuals we now have to consider the needs of the population as a whole. That to me is very scary and I don't think it's what a lot of us believed when we originally entered the profession.

With all due respect, I think a lot of people come into medical school with quite a bit of empathy. I think what stamps it out of them, is medical school itself. I don't think we should start taking people who are already empty inside to start with. The problem is medical school doesn't actually acknowledge or refuses to acknowledge the change across the 4 years, and I think if medical schools talked about it more, students would be much more open, instead of hiding it.

 

[DermViser]

yeah, I mean I have a bachelor's so I had to get the same amount of credits as a trad would get in 4 years(not sure if that's standard or other programs just basically waive bachelor's requirement if you do the 2 years). I did attend graduation. If I had credit I could skip. I actually ended up with a bit too many credits I think like 150ish. I balled pretty hard in those days

Did you at least have to score a certain amount on the MCAT to enter the med school part? I can't imagine someone doing well on the MCAT taking it only after 2 years, with 4 years worth of credits in 2. Of course I imagine if you did well, in theory you could apply out to other med schools (they might be reluctant to take someone who was only in college for 2 years though).

 

[jdh71]

Yes, maybe on a 1:1 level. That being said, medicine is changing to where the establishment, is now saying that physicians are responsible for the health of the population and is a steward of resources and that in caring for individuals we now have to consider the needs of the population as a whole. That to me is very scary and I don't think it's what a lot of us believed when we originally entered the profession.

With all due respect, I think a lot of people come into medical school with quite a bit of empathy. I think what stamps it out of them, is medical school itself. I don't think we should start taking people who are already empty inside to start with. The problem is medical school doesn't actually acknowledge or refuses to acknowledge the change across the 4 years, and I think if medical schools talked about it more, students would be much more open, instead of hiding it.

Hm. I think I just said what you said. Am I lacking in effective communication here?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

It's easy to have that view if one is a Caribbean student. That's why the interview is there so that the only upside to a person isn't just their MCAT and grades.



You disagree?

I actually agree with @jakeislove...

 

[DermViser]

Hm. I think I just said what you said. Am I lacking in effective communication here?

Not the first part.

 

[DermViser]

I actually agree with @jakeislove...

Of course he doesn't think the MCAT/GPA are good predictors. That's my point.

 

[PL198]

Did you at least have to score a certain amount on the MCAT to enter the med school part? I can't imagine someone doing well on the MCAT taking it only after 2 years, with 4 years worth of credits in 2. Of course I imagine if you did well, in theory you could apply out to other med schools (they might be reluctant to take someone who was only in college for 2 years though).

yeah I forget what it was because it was a really low requirement and I never really considered it in terms of pass/fail. lolz I took it after 1 year, pretty sure I had just turned 19. that's why it's funny when I get the same MCAT score as people that get into decent schools, and they had 3 years to study for it and I had 1, in which I really couldn't even study at all(it actually pisses me off a lot). that's kinda the in-house way to prevent transferring out in my opinion. I can get a decent score like low 30s with the limited amount of time I had, but I didn't have enough time to study to get a really good score like higher 30s and have a better chance at applying out, enough to the point where I'd risk pissing off the people behind my program and go ahead and actually apply somewhere else.

 

[DermViser]

yeah I forget what it was because it was a really low requirement and I never really considered it in terms of pass/fail. lolz I took it after 1 year, pretty sure I had just turned 19. that's why it's funny when I get the same MCAT score as people that get into decent schools, and they had 3 years to study for it and I had 1, in which I really couldn't even study at all(it actually pisses me off a lot). that's kinda the in-house way to prevent transferring out in my opinion. I can get a decent score like low 30s with the limited amount of time I had, but I didn't have enough time to study to get a really good score like higher 30s and have a better chance at applying out, enough to the point where I'd risk pissing off the people behind my program and go ahead and actually apply somewhere else.

MCAT as P/F. LOL.

 

[PL198]

MCAT as P/F. LOL.

see that's 1 advantage for some people. clearly you don't like the idea and honestly I don't either(I'm pretty sure they're going to be shut down completely in next 10 years) but there are some positives.

 

[DermViser]

see that's 1 advantage for some people. clearly you don't like the idea and honestly I don't either(I'm pretty sure they're going to be shut down completely in next 10 years) but there are some positives.

I just think if you're going to be locked in a program so early on at 17/18, there shouldn't be an MCAT, bc you're making such a huge compromise early on, not just in the caliber of medical school (home opportunities available in research to build up your application, for example), but financial aid leverage, etc. If you're still going thru the same motions as a premed, you should be rewarded for it, or at least have the opportunity to apply out to a better med school while retaining your seat as backup. It shouldn't matter to the school as they'll find someone to replace your spot easily anyways.

 

[jdh71]

Not the first part.

I'm sorry what? Not the first part of what. There is a clear breakdown in communication. Do you think I said what you said, yes or no? It's a simple question to answer.

If no, what is it that you think you are saying that I did not.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

That being said, medicine is changing to where the establishment, is now saying that physicians are responsible for the health of the population and is a steward of resources and that in caring for individuals we now have to consider the needs of the population as a whole. That to me is very scary and I don't think it's what a lot of us believed when we originally entered the profession.

I'll bet it won't surprise you that I believed in public health training in the 1970's and my belief in this has increased with time!

I continue to teach the concept of public health as an aspect of medical education and training. Actually, what I teach in terms of global health and resources is more nuanced than that, but I'm okay with being labeled as someone who thinks medical students should think about public health issues.

 

[DermViser]

I'll bet it won't surprise you that I've believed in this since I started in medicine in the 1970's and my belief in this has increased with time!

I am, the establishment and I continue to teach the concept of public health as an aspect of medical education and training. Actually, what I teach in terms of global health and resources is MUCH more nuanced than that, but I'm okay with being labeled as someone who thinks medical students should think about public health issues. Also, I'm not so sure about the "now" part of your statement. I've been teaching this for a long time.

No, I'm not at all surprised. A lot of your viewpoints tend to more collectivist (and this is the less politically charged phrase I wish to use) in nature.

While it may have been taught in Public Health as part of medical education, it wasn't largely implemented. The doctor's main duty was to the individual patient and it's why doctors are held in such high esteem by members of society. It's bc they put what's best for the patient at the forefront.

If I was a Heme/Onc doctor, and I had to tell a patient, that I would love to get him/her chemo, but bc I feel that society shouldn't have to bear the cost burden of his chemo since he's already old anyways, and it would be better used for someone who is young and many life-years left - maybe some physicians would be completely ok with this scenario, but I would not be.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

If I was a Heme/Onc doctor, and I had to tell a patient, that I would love to get him/her chemo, but bc I feel that society shouldn't have to bear the cost burden of his chemo since he's already old anyways, and it would be better used for someone who is young and many life-years left - maybe some physicians would be completely ok with this scenario, but I would not be.

Does this currently happen in the US? Are you aware of a single instance of this occurring in the US? Does this scenerio have anything to do with receiving training in public health, such as epidemiology, statistics, study design, etc?

 

[DermViser]

Does this currently happen in the US? Are you aware of a single instance of this occurring in the US? Does this scenerio have anything to do with receiving training in public health, such as epidemiology, statistics, study design, etc?

Did you not read what I posted this previously? I said the medical establishment has now stated this as one of their tenets in the profession - and that physicians are stewards of the nation's health resources and for "social justice" (which I'm sure you believe in). As we head to more and more govt. control of allocation of resources, you don't think effective govt. rationing will be part of the discussion?

As a physician, your duty should be to the individual patient and putting their health and treatment first - not of some third party payer regardless if it's the govt. or not. Your line of thinking that doctors are beholden to the needs of the collective at what will be the expense of the individual patient, is dangerous.

 

[username456789]

The rate of attempted suicide is actually very similar if I remember correctly. We're just better at doing it successfully because we know what we're doing.

I can't speak to the differences between physicians/non-physicians, but from what I recall, in general women attempt suicide significantly more often, but men are much more successful at it.

 

[PL198]

I just think if you're going to be locked in a program so early on at 17/18, there shouldn't be an MCAT, bc you're making such a huge compromise early on, not just in the caliber of medical school (home opportunities available in research to build up your application, for example), but financial aid leverage, etc. If you're still going thru the same motions as a premed, you should be rewarded for it, or at least have the opportunity to apply out to a better med school while retaining your seat as backup. It shouldn't matter to the school as they'll find someone to replace your spot easily anyways.

Some of the really good programs are like that with no MCAT requirement, like Case, but I'm pretty sure they only have 10-20 people per class in the program. Probably would have been a slight reach for me anyway.

 

[jakeislove]

It's easy to have that view if one is a Caribbean student. That's why the interview is there so that the only upside to a person isn't just their MCAT and grades.



You disagree?

The interview doesn't catch people who can't handle things like; stress, a relationship ending, being average in medical school, feedback, disagreement, criticism, loneliness, personality disorders, depression, etc... If it did we wouldn't be reading about suicides and people needing extensive counseling/therapy just to simply survive medical school.

I'm not implying the MCAT is useless. It's probably a really good measure of academic potential, for first time takers, who prepared on their own. Obviously, someone with strong study and test-taking skills will have an easier time mastering the material required to finish medical school and pass standardized exams.

I believe the perspective is common sense and has nothing to do with being a Caribbean student.

 

[PL198]

The interview doesn't catch people who can't handle things like; stress, a relationship ending, being average in medical school, feedback, disagreement, criticism, loneliness, personality disorders, depression, etc... If it did we wouldn't be reading about suicides and people needing extensive counseling/therapy just to simply survive medical school.

I'm not implying the MCAT is useless. It's probably a really good measure of academic potential, for first time takers, who prepared on their own. Obviously, someone with strong study and test-taking skills will have an easier time mastering the material required to finish medical school and pass standardized exams.

I believe the perspective is common sense and has nothing to do with being a Caribbean student.

What? You realize that completely normal people can undergo problems in school and develop suicidal thoughts and need counseling or therapy right? It's not like they're people with some problem that you could screen for before.... An interview is a pretty good initial screen for someone's character.... If someone has a hard time after anything of the things you mentioned, they wouldn't be looked down for it in an admissions setting, because almost all of those are normal human behavior...

 

[DermViser]

Some of the really good programs are like that with no MCAT requirement, like Case, but I'm pretty sure they only have 10-20 people per class in the program. Probably would have been a slight reach for me anyway.

Unless the medical school is a very low tier med school (not many research resources on site, doesn't have specialist residencies on site), having a BS/MD program straight from high school doesn't really benefit the school a whole lot in terms of admissions or getting a better applicant in terms of metrics.

Schools that have a huge research base, every specialty residency, etc. which then helps their students in the match, don't need these programs bc they already get such a stellar applicant now thru the normal process. At a school like Case, like you mentioned, has probably very very few from that track as far as a total percentage of the entire class. A lot times, these type of programs are kept more bc it's such a long tradition for that specific school which is perfectly ok - it probably also hooks early the hSDNers (lol).

Most of the time, the schools that have them in recent times, either add on a number of years to where it's equal in length to the normal process, or drop the program entirely when they see outcomes of those students are hurting the school or once they're getting much better candidates thru the normal process.

Even at places like Brown (Alpert), that has had PLME for ages, if you see the Brown Application thread less and less of their class are composed of PLME students. Why? Bc the admissions people see that they can get even better students from more prestigious undergrads in the normal route, which then props up their school and makes them look better. It's a vicious cycle where med schools are competing in an arms race against each other for the best students they can get.

 

[DermViser]

The interview doesn't catch people who can't handle things like; stress, a relationship ending, being average in medical school, feedback, disagreement, criticism, loneliness, personality disorders, depression, etc... If it did we wouldn't be reading about suicides and people needing extensive counseling/therapy just to simply survive medical school.

I'm not implying the MCAT is useless. It's probably a really good measure of academic potential, for first time takers, who prepared on their own. Obviously, someone with strong study and test-taking skills will have an easier time mastering the material required to finish medical school and pass standardized exams.

I believe the perspective is common sense and has nothing to do with being a Caribbean student.

The interview was never meant to screen for "people who can't handle things like; stress, a relationship ending, being average in medical school, feedback, disagreement, criticism, loneliness, personality disorders, depression, etc."

That being said, if you can't keep it together for 1 interview day, there is no way you will be able to keep it together for 4 years of med school.

Same for residency interviews.

If you're getting a 24 on the MCAT, you will likely struggle in the first 2 years of medical school. It doesn't mean a 35+ is an impenetrable shield against not doing well in the first 2 years.

 

[jakeislove]

What? You realize that completely normal people can undergo problems in school and develop suicidal thoughts and need counseling or therapy right? It's not like they're people with some problem that you could screen for before.... An interview is a pretty good initial screen for someone's character.... If someone has a hard time after anything of the things you mentioned, they wouldn't be looked down for it in an admissions setting, because almost all of those are normal human behavior...

Everyone deals personal issues, that's life. Some people lack effective coping skills or have underlying issues that will always be an internal distraction for them.

 

[jakeislove]

@ DV,

I've heard a PD state the main point of an interview is to spot pathology. I wasn't the least bit surprised.

 

[DermViser]

@ DV,

I've heard a PD state the main point of an interview is to spot pathology. I wasn't the least bit surprised.

Yes. Like I said, if you can't hold it together for 1 day for a piddling interview, then you won't be able to hold it together when **** hits the fan in a 3-7 year residency.

Depending on the specialty, the stress of medical school is a speck compared to the stress of residency in which there is a balance between education vs. service. Medical school education can be "gamed" somewhat in which one can make it thru with fantastic standardized testing skills and to which medical schools are very reluctant to fail students out and make it the residency's problem.

Even then, the interview has false negatives and you aren't able to catch it. Look at the NYU grad at Columbia who was AOA and who recently committed suicide. Although a fellow interviewer said he was actually very nice and friendly on the interview. An interview doesn't have clairvoyance to a person's inner demons and problems.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

you don't think effective govt. rationing will be part of the discussion?

Not much to discuss further if you believe that my interest in public health implies my support for anything that would keep my patients from getting outstanding care. I hope that at some time in the future, you'll reconsider the broad goals of a public health education and what it might mean for medical students in terms of the overall theme of the title of this thread.

Thanks

 

[purphant]

It's a freaking job! That is all is it. If people think they gonna cure the world, power to them... It will be a job for me. I will NOT be a martyr to medicine.

Hmm I dunno. Why go through this prolonged education and training and possibly high debt for just a job. Seems like one could achieve that faster and more easily other ways.

I think the problem that some have with medicine is that you really don't know what you're getting yourself into. And you can't know until you're in too deep to back out without costly repercussions. We had one student drop out third year because he realized medicine didn't make him happy, but mommy and daddy were paying the hills so he had zero debt and could easily walk away.

 

[chillaxbro]

My first thought: "lol dude you're in derm you've got it easy"

 

[DermViser]

Not much to discuss further if you believe that my interest in public health implies my support for anything that would keep my patients from getting outstanding care. I hope that at some time in the future, you'll reconsider the broad goals of a public health education and what it might mean for medical students in terms of the overall theme of the title of this thread.

Thanks

I'm not referring to Public Health as a knowledge base that doctors need to know. I believe you said you would like to see some type of single-payer system in the United States (which after the VA scandal, it's scary that you would still be a proponent of it). Am I wrong that you are not for single-payer healthcare?

Part of the reason that doctors are held in high regard is bc patients feel that at their most vulnerable - physicians will come up with management and treatment to benefit them as a patient and not bc of some bottom line or some nebulous resource steward for society. It's what drives college students to pursue medicine in the first place - the INDIVIDUAL patient-physician relationship.

Part of that discussion of single payer healthcare, since it is is now a public commodity, is that care has to be rationed in some way by the govt. The needs of an individual is beholden to that of society. It's effectively what the IPAB results in, although it's not stated directly as a rationing body. The ones who are for IPAB will say, "Oh, it's not a rationing body!" knowing full well that the IPAB will cut reimbursement so low that it will be untenable for a hospital, etc. to offer that service. So indirectly, it will ration services.

 

[DermViser]

My first thought: "lol dude you're in derm you've got it easy"

I'm not talking about myself. The original post is referring to a student in medical school, which no matter what specialty, we all go thru.

 

[DermViser]

Hmm I dunno. Why go through this prolonged education and training and possibly high debt for just a job. Seems like one could achieve that faster and more easily other ways.

I think the problem that some have with medicine is that you really don't know what you're getting yourself into. And you can't know until you're in too deep to back out without costly repercussions. We had one student drop out third year because he realized medicine didn't make him happy, but mommy and daddy were paying the hills so he had zero debt and could easily walk away.

THIS.

Effectively the only people who can realistically back out of medical school are the ones whose parents are paying their entire tuition bill in full. That's why I think premeds should be doing more realistic shadowing experiences to see if medicine is in fact right for them.

 

[PL198]

Everyone deals personal issues, that's life. Some people lack effective coping skills or have underlying issues that will always be an internal distraction for them.

lol it's called being human, everyone goes through hard times when stuff like that happens. if you think an interview can somehow examine that then idk what to tell you. it's just to make sure you're not so socially inept that you can't hide whatever social flaws you have are.

 

[chillaxbro]

I'm not talking about myself. The original post is referring to a student in medical school, which no matter what specialty, we all go thru.

I know lol. This was before clicking the thread

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I'm not talking about myself. The original post is referring to a student in medical school, which no matter what specialty, we all go thru.

But derm seems to be the most friendly specialty in term of lifestyle... By the way, I saw in the AAMC 'Careers in Medicine' site that derm physicians make 446k/year working an average of 45hrs/wk... Are these numbers real? If so, I think the 241 average step1 fro derm is still relatively low...

 

[username456789]

By the way, I saw in the AAMC 'Careers in Medicine' site that derm physicians make 446k/year working an average of 45hrs/wk... Are these numbers real?

The hours are. The salary is not.