I Produced Over $25,000 of Dentistry Today - AMA

[Pablo Sanchez]

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Says it all in the title.
I’m an associate general dentist 3 years out of school and produced over $25,000 in dentistry after taking into account all insurance adjustments today. By all means a very good day and above average. Ask me anything.

 

[Ryxndek]

bread and butter dentistry, or more complex cases? How many pts do you typically see in a day, or today specifically.

 

[mjzccle19701]

How much of that are you gonna keep?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

bread and butter dentistry, or more complex cases? How many pts do you typically see in a day, or today specifically.

A little bit of everything today. Over $20k of that came from 4 patients.

First patient: Placed 3 implants
Second patient: Extracted lower anterior 4 and did an 8 unit bridge
Third patient: 3 unit bridge
Fourth patient: started an Invisalign case

I had 15 patients in my column today. I feel like I usually have 12ish. That doesn’t include maybe 20 exams in the hygiene columns, but they’re quick and easy.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

How much of that are you gonna keep?

35% minus 35% of my labs. So I take home around $8,250 for the day.

 

[Bigjt1420]

Good job Pablo. I've seen you here since I started. From a pre-dent to now making $8K in a day, love to see it

 

[michaeljj2021]

35% minus 35% of my labs. So I take home around $8,250 for the day.

How did you find a 35% collections gig? I thought most places were 25% minus lab.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

How did you find a 35% collections gig? I thought most places were 25% minus lab.

Don’t let corporate dentistry convince you that 25% is the standard.

I make 35% of adjusted production, not collections. I started interviewing for jobs early in my D4 year. Tried to see as many contracts as possible. The more you see, the more you know what a good offer looks like.

You should be able to start at 30-32%. A year in I was able to negotiate up to 35% because I knew I added value to the practice.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Good job Pablo. I've seen you here since I started. From a pre-dent to now making $8K in a day, love to see it

Thanks Bigjt. But Michigan? Really? I’m a big Penn State guy. 😂

 

[D1Bound]

A little bit of everything today. Over $20k of that came from 4 patients.

First patient: Placed 3 implants
Second patient: Extracted lower anterior 4 and did an 8 unit bridge
Third patient: 3 unit bridge
Fourth patient: started an Invisalign case

I had 15 patients in my column today. I feel like I usually have 12ish. That doesn’t include maybe 20 exams in the hygiene columns, but they’re quick and easy.

Do you utilize a CBCT and blue sky planning software?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Do you utilize a CBCT and blue sky planning software?

We have a CBCT and use a planning service provided by the implant company.

 

[2TH MVR]

Well done. Nice to hear some positive dentistry stuff every so often.

 

[Hockey_Ortho]

A little bit of everything today. Over $20k of that came from 4 patients.

Fourth patient: started an Invisalign case

The revenue for the Invisalign case was that the down payment say $500-$1,000 or are you saying for the total cost of treatment?

Because that will be another X amount of appointments and adjustments.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

The revenue for the Invisalign case was that the down payment say $500-$1,000 or are you saying for the total cost of treatment?

Because that will be another X amount of appointments and adjustments.

We collect the full fee up front (over the first two or three appointments) for Invisalign. If they want a payment plan they sign up for one of the third party financing options we partner with. So we get the money up front.

Typically they come in every 40-60 days for a quick sidebook periodic ortho visit. Doesn’t take any of my main column time or take away from any production being scheduled.

 

[SigmaFS]

Says it all in the title.
I’m an associate general dentist 3 years out of school and produced over $25,000 in dentistry after taking into account all insurance adjustments today. By all means a very good day and above average. Ask me anything.

show us your PMS report detailing your procedures.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

show us your PMS report detailing your procedures.

I don’t have a PMS report on my phone and won’t be in until Monday, but have attached a picture of the schedule. The very first patient was the 3 implants. The second was the extractions and 8 unit bridge. You can see the production amounts in those appointment blocks.

The second patient after lunch was the three unit bridge and the third patient after lunch was the Invisalign. Everything else was smaller stuff. Fillings. Night guard. Etc.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

Congrats! Why are you posting this in the predent section? I'm sure you could get more fruitful questions from actual dentists and dental students. For predents, I hope you know that this is an extreme outlier.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Congrats! Why are you posting this in the predent section? I'm sure you could get more fruitful questions from actual dentists and dental students. For predents, I hope you know that this is an extreme outlier.

It’s tough deciding which forum to choose. I find there is more activity on the pre-dent forum so more engagement. Threads on the practicing dentists page don’t usually go far, and I’d like to help pre-dents and dental students find their own success.

 

[SigmaFS]

I don’t have a PMS report on my phone and won’t be in until Monday, but have attached a picture of the schedule. The very first patient was the 3 implants. The second was the extractions and 8 unit bridge. You can see the production amounts in those appointment blocks.

The second patient after lunch was the three unit bridge and the third patient after lunch was the Invisalign. Everything else was smaller stuff. Fillings. Night guard. Etc.View attachment 411371

Thanks for sharing and congrats on a big production day! Do you think this is representative of most GPs? Your skill set also seems to be an outlier - implants, OS, invisalign, etc. Any endo? Do you feel you're providing a representative portrayal to naive predents?

An edit as I just read this: "According to the latest data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median annual wage for dentists is around $179,210 as of May 2024. General dentists, the focus of my discussion, typically earn well into six figures. In fact, the average net income for general practitioner dentists was about $218,710 (based on 2023 data)."

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Thanks for sharing and congrats on a big production day! Do you think this is representative of most GPs? Your skill set also seems to be an outlier - implants, OS, invisalign, etc. Any endo? Do you feel you're providing a representative portrayal to naive predents?

An edit as I just read this: "According to the latest data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median annual wage for dentists is around $179,210 as of May 2024. General dentists, the focus of my discussion, typically earn well into six figures. In fact, the average net income for general practitioner dentists was about $218,710 (based on 2023 data)."

Thank you! I do also do endo, just didn’t happen to have it in my schedule on this day.
To be transparent, the very next day after this I produced about $7500 to take home $2,625. Each day is different in this field.

I think there is such great variation among dentists. There are dentists who graduate from dental school and for whatever reason don’t try to learn anything new. They stick to fillings and cleanings and produce on the lower end. They refer out extractions and endo maybe because they’re afraid of the procedure? Or they don’t want to go through the tough period of learning, of failing. But then they miss the opportunity to grow.

There are dentists on the other end of the spectrum who pursue continued education and really focus on continuing to develop their skills. I have experience working in two different practices where the owners do all of the procedures that I do (and then some) and they have multiple associates also making them money. Both owners make well over $1 million per year and practices like that are really not uncommon.

To address the BLS report of the average dentist salary, you have to take that with a big grain of salt. Owners pay themselves a “reasonable salary” of $150,000 a year and take the rest of their income as a distribution from the business. Makes getting the true data difficult.

I will say that it did not take me very long to expand my skills to the level that they’re at. I think it is very reasonable for a motivated pre-dent to be able to do what I do clinically. I am not some prodigy who grew up around dentistry and I know others my age who are doing the same.

 

[SigmaFS]

o be transparent, the very next day after this I produced about $7500 to take home $2,625

Isn't that an outlier as well? Most associate dentist daily production goals are probably $3k. Your "transparent" amount is 2.5x above the most goals. Again, you are representative of only a rare few associates. Naive pre-dents will take your experience as more common.

As for BLS, business entity returns report both W2 (if the entity is a corp) and net income (where net income is the upper limit of distributions). BLS should be able capture both income types. Also, there seems to be many more associates than practice owners. Per the article, employed dentist ave income is about $177k. Yours is what 2x, 2.5x the average? Congrats on your financial success, but you're an outlier to an outlier.

One other thing, where do you practice? Do you know the dentist to population ratio?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Isn't that an outlier as well? Most associate dentist daily production goals are probably $3k. Your "transparent" amount is 2.5x above the most goals. Again, you are representative of only a rare few associates. Naive pre-dents will take your experience as more common.

As for BLS, business entity returns report both W2 (if the entity is a corp) and net income (where net income is the upper limit of distributions). BLS should be able capture both income types. Also, there seems to be many more associates than practice owners. Per the article, employed dentist ave income is about $177k. Yours is what 2x, 2.5x the average? Congrats on your financial success, but you're an outlier to an outlier.

One other thing, where do you practice? Do you know the dentist to population ratio?

I struggle with viewing myself as that much of an outlier because I’m nothing special. My friends also on SDN will tell you that. I’m just an average guy. I’m a first generation dentist. I wasn’t the best in my dental school class at anything. I know a lot of dentists who make a similar amount to me or more than me, and I really don’t feel like I work that hard for it. I have enough time to sit on SDN all day. The dentists that I personally know who are making less than say, $250k, are either working part time (less than 5 days per week), or just really not trying. I really think that the reason I’m viewed as an outlier is what, because I actually work 5 days a week? Because I took some implant CE? Maybe I’m slightly better at learning on the job than others? I’ve always had an interest in business so maybe that just comes a little more naturally to me? I really don’t know.

I was recently at a wedding with fellow dental colleagues from dental school. They were complaining about seeing 13 patients in a day. People just seem soft to me these days.

I work 25 minutes outside of a major Northeast city. Pretty typical dentist to patient ratio for a major suburb.

 

[SigmaFS]

struggle with viewing myself as that much of an outlier

Not you personally, but just your income. Your inability to see other prospectives is fascinating. Your colleagues are letting you, and you describe them as soft. Your reality is not that of 99% of people, and you can't recognize it. Oh well.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Not you personally, but just your income. Your inability to see other prospectives is fascinating. Your colleagues are letting you, and you describe them as soft. Your reality is not that of 99% of people, and you can't recognize it. Oh well.

I’m more so just trying to encourage others that it can be done if you work hard. I make more than most other associate dentists. Let’s make that clear. But I think it’s relatively achievable if you’re motivated. That’s all!

 

[2TH MVR]

I work 25 minutes outside of a major Northeast city. Pretty typical dentist to patient ratio for a major suburb.

Are there lots of Dental Corps in your suburb. I practice in Arizona. Talk about saturation. There are dental corps or dental offices on literally every street corner. Would you say your location plays a role in your success?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Are there lots of Dental Corps in your suburb. I practice in Arizona. Talk about saturation. There are dental corps or dental offices on literally every street corner. Would you say your location plays a role in your success?

That’s a tough question for me to answer. I feel like there are dentists everywhere. Aspens, Heartlands, and other smaller corps all around. ChatGPT says my state is more saturated with dentists than Arizona, but it can’t provide data on the micro-level community by community. I’m sure if I were in Manhattan, for example, it would be more saturated and more difficult to be productive.

 

[Blueshirts]

I’m more so just trying to encourage others that it can be done if you work hard. I make more than most other associate dentists. Let’s make that clear. But I think it’s relatively achievable if you’re motivated. That’s all!

You are right, I’m sure if you were swapped out of that business another motivated associate would do well, the key to the scenario is that the owner is good at capturing patients, obviously, you do well in retaining them, establishing value, making it easy for them to get the work done, and more obviously, doing the clinical dentistry itself. I think that is a fair assessment of the situation. I’ve personally seen a guy easily doing 25-50k a week with a high of 70k, but that same guy - under poor circumstances in the office - also spent months struggling to get to 15k a week, but i won’t go into the details; the point is - good business acumen is what makes the difference and that is what makes this situation you are in an outlier.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

You are right, I’m sure if you were swapped out of that business another motivated associate would do well, the key to the scenario is that the owner is good at capturing patients, obviously, you do well in retaining them, establishing value, making it easy for them to get the work done, and more obviously, doing the clinical dentistry itself. I think that is a fair assessment of the situation. I’ve personally seen a guy easily doing 25-50k a week with a high of 70k, but that same guy - under poor circumstances in the office - also spent months struggling to get to 15k a week, but i won’t go into the details; the point is - good business acumen is what makes the difference and that is what makes this situation you are in an outlier.

I agree that good business acumen is critical! Even the infrastructure of the office itself matters. It would be tough to be doing this if it were a three chair office. The owner owns a group of offices, and mine is by far the most productive. Part of that is me, part of that is just the nature of the office. The owner’s business acumen for my office doesn’t necessarily translate to his other offices.

When I first started working I worked here M-Th and at another office on Fridays and Saturdays. That office also had associates making about $400k. There are multiple associate opportunities where this sort of production is possible and for the motivated dental student, they can find a good associateship and achieve the same!

 

[SigmaFS]

I’m more so just trying to encourage others that it can be done if you work hard. I make more than most other associate dentists.

There's a reason associate dentist average income is ~$180k. Is it they choose not to work hard? Could it also be that some providers are not FFS catering to those with financial means. My point is you're presenting a misleading rare experience (ie yours) to uninitiated pre-dents. Maybe they would be better served with information about ave income and whether $650k student debt is manageable.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

There's a reason associate dentist average income is ~$180k. Is it they choose not to work hard? Could it also be that some providers are not FFS catering to those with financial means. My point is you're presenting a misleading rare experience (ie yours) to uninitiated pre-dents. Maybe they would be better served with information about ave income and whether $650k student debt is manageable.

I work in a PPO heavy practice. Thanks, pal. I provide a lot of insight about limiting debt as well. Limit your debt as best you can and work hard and it can be a great career.

For those of you who actually want to learn how to find a good associateship, develop your skills, provide great services to your patients, and increase your income along the way, I’m happy to provide advice, and can assure you that it is not as hard as some people on here make it seem. I paid for my own dental school, am a first generation dentist, work in an office accepting almost every PPO under the sun. It’s not anything that crazy and unattainable for you. Ignore the closed mindedness and salty naysayers.

And let’s be clear that I’m not saying that $25,000 is an average day. But it happened and is a cool goal to work toward for the motivated dentist. Let people who want to achieve that work to achieve it. We don’t always have to put other people down just because you haven’t achieved it. Let’s be more positive on here and encourage other people to be the best they can be.

 

[SigmaFS]

I work in a PPO heavy practice. Thanks, pal. I provide a lot of insight about limiting debt as well. Limit your debt as best you can and work hard and it can be a great career.

For those of you who actually want to learn how to find a good associateship, develop your skills, provide great services to your patients, and increase your income along the way, I’m happy to provide advice, and can assure you that it is not as hard as some people on here make it seem. I paid for my own dental school, am a first generation dentist, work in an office accepting almost every PPO under the sun. It’s not anything that crazy and unattainable for you. Ignore the closed mindedness and salty naysayers.

And let’s be clear that I’m not saying that $25,000 is an average day. But it happened and is a cool goal to work toward for the motivated dentist. Let people who want to achieve that work to achieve it. We don’t always have to put other people down just because you haven’t achieved it. Let’s be more positive on here and encourage other people to be the best they can be

You can't seem to accept you're an outlier. You're probably in the 1% of wage earners for associate dentist. Somehow you think this can apply to all dentists despite the average income of a $180000.

Regarding being a PPO heavy practice, is your $25k production or adjusted production?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

You can't seem to accept you're an outlier. You're probably in the 1% of wage earners for associate dentist. Somehow you think this can apply to all dentists despite the average income of a $180000.

Regarding being a PPO heavy practice, is your $25k production or adjusted production?

I know I make more than most associate general dentists. But I also know that it isn’t that hard to get to a point where you are making north of $300k as a general dentist.

It is adjusted production. Says that in the original post.

 

[JacquesVallee]

But I also know that it isn’t that hard to get to a point where you are making north of $300k as a general dentist.

Shows your lack of self-awareness. Pre-dents and dental students reading this: making 300k as an associate is EXTRAORDINARILY hard. 300k is absurdly high for an associate, especially a young one. Everything you are doing is simply not achievable for your average dentist. This is either false humility or complete naivety.

I know your response will be that you're "average" and an average dental graduate could do this. I feel like I'm pretty average, and I could not do what you're doing. The average salary being 180k for dentists backs this up (I'm sure it's trending down as well). Just purely objectively, you are VASTLY beyond your average dentist. Please, accept this as a fact. The data backs this up.

Let’s be more positive on here and encourage other people to be the best they can be.

I'm 100% for this. If your thread was just tips on producing being a high producer while having the self-awareness that you far outshine 99% of young dental associates, I'd be all for it and wouldn't comment. My issue is you constantly flex your 400k+ income and then act as though it's achievable for dentists. It just isn't.

I'm not trying to be mean whatsoever. It's nice seeing someone on these forums do well as an associate. But I just hope people reading this completely understand that what you're doing is great to see and we should all take note of your tips to achieve it, while simultaneously realizing that we will never be able to fully achieve it. 120-140k starting is the reality for almost all new grads. That is a fact. At least 95% of people reading this will never make your income as an associate. People need to take on more debt and go into ownership to make that kind of money.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Shows your lack of self-awareness. Pre-dents and dental students reading this: making 300k as an associate is EXTRAORDINARILY hard. 300k is absurdly high for an associate, especially a young one. Everything you are doing is simply not achievable for your average dentist. This is either false humility or complete naivety.

I know your response will be that you're "average" and an average dental graduate could do this. I feel like I'm pretty average, and I could not do what you're doing. The average salary being 180k for dentists backs this up (I'm sure it's trending down as well). Just purely objectively, you are VASTLY beyond your average dentist. Please, accept this as a fact. The data backs this up.

I'm 100% for this. If your thread was just tips on producing being a high producer while having the self-awareness that you far outshine 99% of young dental associates, I'd be all for it and wouldn't comment. My issue is you constantly flex your 400k+ income and then act as though it's achievable for dentists. It just isn't.

I'm not trying to be mean whatsoever. It's nice seeing someone on these forums do well as an associate. But I just hope people reading this completely understand that what you're doing is great to see and we should all take note of your tips to achieve it, while simultaneously realizing that we will never be able to fully achieve it. 120-140k starting is the reality for almost all new grads. That is a fact. At least 95% of people reading this will never make your income as an associate. People need to take on more debt and go into ownership to make that kind of money.

This thread WAS about answering people’s questions and encouraging others to take the steps needed to be a high producer. Not once have I denied that I make more than the average associate dentist, but I do believe it is possible for those reading to hopefully take tips from me and also raise their income and achieve an income well-above the previously posted average of $180,000. A few bad apples who take over the threads refusing to ever mention ANY positive aspects of the profession commented questioning the legitimacy of my post and making it seem as if I’m just the 0.001% trying to convince others that they cannot do it.

If you think the profession is so bad and the future is so dismal, it isn’t too late for you to leave the profession and find something else to do like @SigmaFS. He isn’t a dentist. He’s a tax advisor. Could be a good second career choice for you!

Debt is a big concern. That is addressed plenty on this site. Let’s get back to having people ask about what a $25,000 in adjusted production day looks like, and what steps they can take to become more productive themselves.

 

[michaeljj2021]

Would you say that your front office management is better than at other practices? Not sure if you can give perspective on that.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Would you say that your front office management is better than at other practices? Not sure if you can give perspective on that.

Tough to say. There had been a lot of turnover, but what front desk doesn’t have that these days? Over the past two years it’s been pretty stable. The girl answering phones sometimes has attitude and sometimes schedules things incorrectly or makes mistakes. She talks about leaving soon. If I have a slow day sometimes I’ll wonder why she’s not actively calling patients with future appointments and trying to move them up or whatever. The office manager for the past two years is pretty solid. On top of her stuff. Can be absent on vacation or away from the practice more than an office manager should be in my mind, but we manage without her when she’s away. She also talks about leaving.

But we have all learned how to work together and they typically do a great job scheduling things for the proper amount of time and are flexible with me if I want something done. Sometimes I’ll have them send out a text about an Invisalign special or whatnot. We all work well together.

 

[SigmaFS]

Yes, I'm a tax advisor. My wife's a dentist and practice owner for approximately 20 years. 90% of my clients are dentists most of whom practice in saturated markets. The vast majority of my practice owner clients don't make the money you're make, not to mention associate dentists. My experience with dentists' income is dramatically different than yours.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Yes, I'm a tax advisor. My wife's a dentist and practice owner for approximately 20 years. 90% of my clients are dentists most of whom practice in saturated markets. The vast majority of my practice owner clients don't make the money you're make, not to mention associate dentists. My experience with dentists' income is dramatically different than yours.

I think we both agree that the cost of dental school is becoming absurd and that limiting your debt is pretty crucial. For those dental students who are graduating with debt, because people still do seem to be willing to blindly take out loans, wouldn’t it be nice if we could provide them a blueprint to pay back their loans, expand their skillset, and increase their income so they can be in the upper tiers of the dentists you work with? Wouldnt it be cool to show them what a $25,000 day looks like and what steps they can take to try to work towards having a day like that themselves? Because they’re still deciding to go to dental school, so we might as well motivate them and help them rather than just saying “you can’t do it.”

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

I think we both agree that the cost of dental school is becoming absurd and that limiting your debt is pretty crucial. For those dental students who are graduating with debt, because people still do seem to be willing to blindly take out loans, wouldn’t it be nice if we could provide them a blueprint to pay back their loans, expand their skillset, and increase their income so they can be in the upper tiers of the dentists you work with? Wouldnt it be cool to show them what a $25,000 day looks like and what steps they can take to try to work towards having a day like that themselves? Because they’re still deciding to go to dental school, so we might as well motivate them and help them rather than just saying “you can’t do it.”

I think what gets people upset at these kind of posts is seeing you repeatedly tout that you make over $400k, saying anyone can do it, then post that you want to provide a blueprint for future dentists to be able to do the same, yet there’s no actual substance to these posts of how docs can do it. It just paints a starry eyed picture for predents without actually providing any sort of strategy or plan on how to achieve it.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I think what gets people upset at these kind of posts is seeing you repeatedly tout that you make over $400k, saying anyone can do it, then post that you want to provide a blueprint for future dentists to be able to do the same, yet there’s no actual substance to these posts of how docs can do it. It just paints a starry eyed picture for predents without actually providing any sort of strategy or plan on how to achieve it.

Oh there has been plenty of substance. Let me recap for you.

1) I graduated undergrad a semester early and worked to save up a little bit of money for dental school

2) Go to the cheapest school.

3) Limit your expenses while in school. If possible, live at home with your parents while in school to save yourself the living expenses. If not possible, live like a student.

4) Start interviewing for associate jobs early in your D4 year. See as many contracts as you can. The more you see, the more you’ll be able to distinguish what a good offer is.

5) Take a job where you’re getting paid a fair amount of adjusted production (preferable) or collections. 25% is not normal and should not be considered by you. You can easily get 30-32% starting out.

6) Look for an associate job that has enough patients. You don’t want to be doing the cleanings and fillings that the owner doc doesn’t want to do. Look for a job where there has been a history of successful associates. Ask to see their production numbers. Ask to see the schedule.

7) Expand your skillset. Don’t be afraid to get your feet wet and try something. Take CE. I took implant CE within my first six months of practicing. Learn how to do Invisalign. Learn how to do molar endo. You don’t have to do all of these things right away, but if you don’t start early, there’s a good chance you’ll never feel comfortable doing it.

8) Work 6 days a week at first. You want as much experience as possible. Working more = more pay, but also more skills and more efficient dentistry.

9) Live at home for the first year or two as a dentist. Pay off your loans fast so then you will free up your income for whatever else you want to do down the road (practice ownership, outside investments, working part time, etc.)

10) Once you feel more confident in your skills negotiate a higher rate. Once you provide irreplaceable value to the practice, you have the power to negotiate.

11) Invest in low cost index funds while young. This will grow quickly and increase your passive income to the point where you’ll end up making more from investments than dentistry itself. I’ve shown the math on this over and over.

Im even providing a picture of the schedule on a really productive day so you guys can see what that looks like. I’m very transparent and open to questions.

Those are all things that I repeatedly preach. Lots of good substance there. Sorry you missed it before.

 

[SuxDrugs&Rocuronium]

Oh there has been plenty of substance. Let me recap for you.

1) I graduated undergrad a semester early and worked to save up a little bit of money for dental school

2) Go to the cheapest school.

3) Limit your expenses while in school. If possible, live at home with your parents while in school to save yourself the living expenses. If not possible, live like a student.

4) Start interviewing for associate jobs early in your D4 year. See as many contracts as you can. The more you see, the more you’ll be able to distinguish what a good offer is.

5) Take a job where you’re getting paid a fair amount of adjusted production (preferable) or collections. 25% is not normal and should not be considered by you. You can easily get 30-32% starting out.

6) Look for an associate job that has enough patients. You don’t want to be doing the cleanings and fillings that the owner doc doesn’t want to do. Look for a job where there has been a history of successful associates. Ask to see their production numbers. Ask to see the schedule.

7) Expand your skillset. Don’t be afraid to get your feet wet and try something. Take CE. I took implant CE within my first six months of practicing. Learn how to do Invisalign. Learn how to do molar endo. You don’t have to do all of these things right away, but if you don’t start early, there’s a good chance you’ll never feel comfortable doing it.

8) Work 6 days a week at first. You want as much experience as possible. Working more = more pay, but also more skills and more efficient dentistry.

9) Live at home for the first year or two as a dentist. Pay off your loans fast so then you will free up your income for whatever else you want to do down the road (practice ownership, outside investments, working part time, etc.)

10) Once you feel more confident in your skills negotiate a higher rate. Once you provide irreplaceable value to the practice, you have the power to negotiate.

11) Invest in low cost index funds while young. This will grow quickly and increase your passive income to the point where you’ll end up making more from investments than dentistry itself. I’ve shown the math on this over and over.

Im even providing a picture of the schedule on a really productive day so you guys can see what that looks like. I’m very transparent and open to questions.

Those are all things that I repeatedly preach. Lots of good substance there. Sorry you missed it before.

Thanks for posting this, I don’t follow these threads religiously so it’s nice to have everything compiled together. This is what the predent/dental students need to see and understand so they can follow your path and become successful. I think it’s great to share this kind of advice, although I do think the number of young dentists willing/able to do all of these things is still pretty low.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

The average physician will have a much better ROI than the average dentist. Dentistry is definitely not what it used to be and its decline continues.

Predents, my advice? Go to medical school.

Big Hoss

 

[mjzccle19701]

The average physician will have a much better ROI than the average dentist.

Hasn’t that always been the case?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Hasn’t that always been the case?

Yes, but that once small divide has turned into a chasm.

Big Hoss

 

[michaeljj2021]

The average physician will have a much better ROI than the average dentist. Dentistry is definitely not what it used to be and its decline continues.

Predents, my advice? Go to medical school.

Big Hoss

People don't really get to choose what medical school they go to though. Most people only get into 1 or 2 schools after 2+ application cycles. I guess you can argue for applying only to affordable schools, but those are only going to get more competitive after BBB (same with dental school, btw). If you only get into an expensive private school, then you could be stuck with 800k+ in loans after interest accumulates for 7-10 years.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

The average physician will have a much better ROI than the average dentist. Dentistry is definitely not what it used to be and its decline continues.

Predents, my advice? Go to medical school.

Big Hoss

Medicine is a great career, too! Lots of medical specialties that take a long time to pursue (so you’re delaying paying off your loans while interest accumulates and you’re delaying getting compound interest working in your favor as you’re not investing while in training). And many areas of medicine don’t pay anything super substantial that cannot be achieved by a business oriented dentist. Think Pediatrics, Primary Care, Emergency Med, etc. Think you’re going to pursue fellowship and become a cardiologist or GI doc? You’re talking an additional 3 years when the dentist could be having compound interest working in their favor. It’s not all cut and dry. Once again, medicine is a great career and in many cases can be more financially rewarding than most other careers. Just something to think about.

My physician partner will never take home over $8,000 in a day, but she also won’t have to worry about the potential for having a slow day where patients cancel and not bringing money into the practice affecting her take home because she works for a large health system. She also gave up more of her life to education and worked 90 hour weeks while I didn’t have to.

 

[SigmaFS]

I think we both agree that the cost of dental school is becoming absurd and that limiting your debt is pretty crucial. For those dental students who are graduating with debt, because people still do seem to be willing to blindly take out loans, wouldn’t it be nice if we could provide them a blueprint to pay back their loans, expand their skillset, and increase their income so they can be in the upper tiers of the dentists you work with? Wouldnt it be cool to show them what a $25,000 day looks like and what steps they can take to try to work towards having a day like that themselves? Because they’re still deciding to go to dental school, so we might as well motivate them and help them rather than just saying “you can’t do it.”

The cost of education at some of these schools is unethical. And it's irresponsible that schools don't provide some guidance on how to manage student debt.

Too many schools view students as $$$ opportunities.

 

[charlestweed]

It's nice to hear a young Gen Z dentist who is doing well. Congrats on your financial success! Your hard work and sacrifice have paid off big time. It felt good to have a busy productive day, didn't it? I feel the same way whenever I have a hectic busy schedule that requires me to work nonstop.... no time for a bathroom break. A busy day like this makes me love my profession even more because it makes me feel I am needed.....it means my patients love me, trust me, and want me to be their doctor.

Do you own a house? I know you have invested heavily in stock. How many days per week and how many hours per day do you currently work? Do you work on Saturdays? I hope my son, who will start med school next yr, will turn out to be a fine hard working and highly motivated doctor like you.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

It's nice to hear a young Gen Z dentist who is doing well. Congrats on your financial success! Your hard work and sacrifice have paid off big time. It felt good to have a busy productive day, didn't it? I felt the same way whenever I have a hectic busy schedule that requires me to work nonstop.... no time for a bathroom break. A busy day like this makes me love my profession even more because it makes me feel I am needed.....it means my patients love me, trust me, and want me to be their doctor.

Do you own a house? I know you have invested heavily in stock. How many days per week and how many hours per day do you currently work? Do you work on Saturdays? I hope my son, who will start med school next yr, will turn out to be a fine hard working and highly motivated doctor like you.

Thank you! It felt really good to have a big day. I saw it coming up on the schedule a few days before and was worried it wouldn’t all come together, but it all worked out and provides a big boost to the month’s production. Feels good to help lots of patients in lots of different ways!

Me and my partner rent. We will buy a house and buy a practice when she’s finished with her medical training and we are ready to settle down to a specific location. I currently work 8 hours a day M-Th and a shorter 6 hours on Fridays. Brings it to 38 hours a week. I stopped working Saturdays earlier this year. My loans are paid off and I have a decent foundation now so I was able to scale back a bit.

If your son has half the work ethic that you do, he will be just fine!

 

[bamadentite]

What were you like as a student in dental school? How was your class rank? Did you feel like you were usually ahead of the rest of your class like you are now?