I really don't want to take a biology course that has to do with animals

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I understand that if I get into med school, I'll have to learn a lot about human biology. I want to learn about plants right now. So I have a question. My state med school requires 1 semester of "general zoology/biology with laboratory" and 1 semester of "Genetics, Cellular biology, or Molecular biology". It also says that AP exams are acceptable if a subsequent higher course is taken for a grade.

Do you guys think that I could take some plant science classes instead of this stuff? Would a plant genetics course cover the "Genetics, Cellular biology, or Molecular biology" requirement? And do you think assorted plant science courses on top of a chemical engineering course load would work as a "subsequent higher course" (meaning, what are the chances they count a plant science course as a "subsequent higher course")? I would also be taking 2 semesters of biochemistry.

How would this go over at other med schools?

Reworded for clarity because I keep getting advice on things that I'm not asking for advice on:

For med school admissions, it often says that AP credit is accepted as long as you take a subsequent higher course (or something to this effect).

I understand that botany is considered biology in BCPM

Would botany courses count as a subsequent higher course for AP exams?

Would plant genetics be equivalent to a "genetics" course requirement?

I believed that these questions have a decent chance to be answered on SDN. Some replies have told me that they cannot be answered on SDN.

Would it be best to call all med schools that I might want to apply to in order to figure this out?

Is there enough of an acceptance of the equivalencies around the states that if I wanted to go out of state, I could?

Most important part:

Would I be screened out of most med schools for taking the plant classes instead of the general biology classes?
 
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summergirl

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Medicine is 90% human physiology, so why would you want to apply to medical school if you only want to take plant biology and not animal biology (human is an animal)? And to answer your question, I don't think plant biology satisfies that requirement because it specifically states "genetics, cellular biology or molecular biology", which is different from plant biology.
 
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One term of general bio for me was all about plant sex. Most boring class I've ever taken.
Yeah but I could take the real plant sex class. Not the Introductory Bio learn nothing freshman weed-out class.

Medicine is 90% human physiology, so why would you want to apply to medical school if you only want to take plant biology and not animal biology (human is an animal)? And to answer your question, I don't think plant biology satisfies that requirement because it specifically states "genetics, cellular biology or molecular biology", which is different from plant biology.
"I understand that if I get into med school, I'll have to learn a lot about human biology. I want to learn about plants right now." - me

Also I specified it to be a plant genetics course.
 

GBCrzzyy

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This would be tricky because the point of those classes being requirements is that they are very broad classes. For example, a general genetics course discusses basic principles of genetics in regards to people/animals, plants, and sometimes even insects. If you only take a plant genetics course you're missing a huge chunk - and the chunk that matters far more for your career path. I highly recommend taking the general courses that cover a wide variety of areas - especially pertaining to human and animal biology because medical school will care way more about a 4000 level human genetics course than an equivalent plants genetics course. Not saying you shouldn't take the plant courses but you should add those on to what the med schools require and definitely not try and substitute. However, if you are really determined, I would contact the school just to be sure. But plant-focused science classes will be fairly useless for preparing for medical school regardless.
 

summergirl

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Yeah but I could take the real plant sex class. Not the Introductory Bio learn nothing freshman weed-out class.



"I understand that if I get into med school, I'll have to learn a lot about human biology. I want to learn about plants right now." - me

Also I specified it to be a plant genetics course.
Fair enough.
 

GBCrzzyy

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"I understand that if I get into med school, I'll have to learn a lot about human biology. I want to learn about plants right now." - me
Not sure how far along you are in your education right now but when it comes time to take the MCAT, you're going to be hurting if most of your bio and genetics background pertains to plants. It will just make your life more difficult. get the broad requirements down (even though I agree, they are not fun classes) then have fun taking all the plant bio you want but you need to show that you've taken the foundational classes. Especially if you are transferring in AP credits - you need to prove you actually know that material at a college level.
 
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This would be tricky because the point of those classes being requirements is that they are very broad classes. For example, a general genetics course discusses basic principles of genetics in regards to people/animals, plants, and sometimes even insects. If you only take a plant genetics course you're missing a huge chunk - and the chunk that matters far more for your career path. I highly recommend taking the general courses that cover a wide variety of areas - especially pertaining to human and animal biology because medical school will care way more about a 4000 level human genetics course than an equivalent plants genetics course. Not saying you shouldn't take the plant courses but you should add those on to what the med schools require and definitely not try and substitute. However, if you are really determined, I would contact the school just to be sure. But plant-focused science classes will be fairly useless for preparing for medical school regardless.
I'm thinking that a medical school can teach me how to be a medical doctor. I don't think a lack of undergraduate education in animal specific genetic properties or general biology is going to compromise that ability of a medical school.

As for the mcat, I thought I only needed introductory biology, biochem, psych, soc, gen chem, and organic chem?

The question is, will adcoms be cool with it? I wonder if any would chime in for me.
 

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they are going to expect you to have a lot of background knowledge pertaining to animal biology. granted a lot of non-sci majors get in and do just fine but they still take the minimum classes and I'd imagine that the more animal bio/genetics you take, the better your first year would go for you - you won't worry about playing catch up. Animal and plant bio are very different. My suggestion would be take basic biology, general genetics, and cell & molec, then you should be golden for all the plant bio you want. Also, look into the prereqs for those classes. Many of them require the general classes in order to even take the plant classes. I took a decent mix of animal and plant bio at my university so this was my experience. Had to take the boring classes in order to take the good ones.
 
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they are going to expect you to have a lot of background knowledge pertaining to animal biology. granted a lot of non-sci majors get in and do just fine but they still take the minimum classes and I'd imagine that the more animal bio/genetics you take, the better your first year would go for you - you won't worry about playing catch up. Animal and plant bio are very different. My suggestion would be take basic biology, general genetics, and cell & molec, then you should be golden for all the plant bio you want. Also, look into the prereqs for those classes. Many of them require the general classes in order to even take the plant classes. I took a decent mix of animal and plant bio at my university so this was my experience. Had to take the boring classes in order to take the good ones.
Basic biology is a freshman weed-out class at my school. I see no point in spending a semester among 400 soon to be weeded out freshman students listening to a teacher I will never have a personal conversation with to relearn the basics of Mendelian genetics and Darwinian evolution.

My situation is one where I cannot take both sets of classes. I can take either plant classes (with the plant and soil science department's genetics class), or microbiology/molecular biology classes (with the Biology department's genetics class).

I want to take the plant classes. I was trying to see if anyone knew if plant science courses could satisfy these 2 requirements. Plant genetics seems close enough to general genetics to me. And my opinion of introductory bio is expressed above.

Once again the question is, would adcoms accept these credits?

If I manage to have a good GPA, MCAT score, and EC list, but do not have these 2 classes due to opting for agricultural classes instead, would I simply be screened out of med school?
 

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maybe @Goro can answer that question but I can't. Each school is different though so I would really contact each individually to see if they will take it
 

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Basic biology is a freshman weed-out class at my school. I see no point in spending a semester among 400 soon to be weeded out freshman students listening to a teacher I will never have a personal conversation with to relearn the basics of Mendelian genetics and Darwinian evolution.

My situation is one where I cannot take both sets of classes. I can take either plant classes (with the plant and soil science department's genetics class), or microbiology/molecular biology classes (with the Biology department's genetics class).

I want to take the plant classes. I was trying to see if anyone knew if plant science courses could satisfy these 2 requirements. Plant genetics seems close enough to general genetics to me. And my opinion of introductory bio is expressed above.

Once again the question is, would adcoms accept these credits?
You sound difficult to deal with. Stop asking SDN and actually call your state school and ask them.
 

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Once again the question is, would adcoms accept these credits?
Contact your state med school and ask them. This is entirely a school-specific question; each school has its own requirements and preferences for how you meet them. Some schools will be somewhat flexible and others won't. Keep in mind that even if your state med school is somehow okay with you taking a plant biology class instead of gen bio, other schools may not be. You will very likely have to take Gen Bio, if you want to go to medical school.
 

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They are also much less likely to take it if your plant bio course doesn't have a lab with it. Running the gauntlet of the weed-out classes is a part of being pre-med and will save you a lot of trouble by just sucking it up and taking it.
 
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Maybe I'm missing something here...
At my school, even botany majors are required to take general bio. All those classes you listed have gen bio as a prereq. So what makes you think you don't have to take biology? Furthermore, you keep saying its a weed out class but implying that you're too smart to waste your time with it.

And really, plants? I'll never understand why anyone would willingly learn about plant biology.
 
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You sound difficult to deal with. Stop asking SDN and actually call your state school and ask them.
I thought SDN was a place that I could ask this question. It's quite late in my state. I'm working on my schedule right now. My state med school is not open to phone calls at this time. If a general consensus exists about the equivalency of plant genetics and general genetics and about the equivalency of different types of biological science courses to a subsequent higher biology course after general biology, and someone on SDN knows about it, I would like to know.

Maybe I'm missing something here...
At my school, even botany majors are required to take general bio. All those classes you listed have gen bio as a prereq. So what makes you think you don't have to take biology? Furthermore, you keep saying its a weed out class but implying that you're too smart to waste your time with it.

And really, plants? I'll never understand why anyone would willingly learn about plant biology.
AP examinations. Sorry for that tone in my pixels. I just don't want to spend my time participating in the weed out class when I don't have to. I could be learning about things I want and spending time doing fun ECs instead of going through that drudgery. I would learn all about basic Mendelian genetics in my plant genetics course. I would learn all about basic Darwinian evolution when I study for the MCAT.

And yeah, plants.
 

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Okay, clearly you're not heeding the warnings nor do you care, so here I go.

Assuming that you even score decently on the MCAT without taking the (correct) subjects ON THE MCAT, I do not think they'll take it over someone who has taken micro/molecular biology courses. As most people have stated, and as we should know from elementary school, plants and humans are different. Those people who have taken micro/molecular biology classes are going to have a serious advantage when it comes to the foundation of their education.

"Medical school will teach me how to be a medical doctor" ok but why should you get a seat over someone who enjoys/put up with learning animal biology?

Have you considered PhD? Other avenues where you can learn about plants and actually apply it?

Edit: I agree with previous poster, you sound hard to deal with and arrogant. You're not too good for that weed out class.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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I thought SDN was a place that I could ask this question. It's quite late in my state. I'm working on my schedule right now. My state med school is not open to phone calls at this time. If a general consensus exists about the equivalency of plant genetics and general genetics and about the equivalency of different types of biological science courses to a subsequent higher biology course after general biology, and someone on SDN knows about it, I would like to know.



AP examinations. Sorry for that tone in my pixels. I just don't want to spend my time participating in the weed out class when I don't have to. I could be learning about things I want and spending time doing fun ECs instead of going through that drudgery. I would learn all about basic Mendelian genetics in my plant genetics course. I would learn all about basic Darwinian evolution when I study for the MCAT.

And yeah, plants.
If you have AP credit then just apply to schools that accept it and do whatever you want since you are going to anyway despite everyone advising against it
 
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piii

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I thought SDN was a place that I could ask this question. It's quite late in my state. I'm working on my schedule right now. My state med school is not open to phone calls at this time. If a general consensus exists about the equivalency of plant genetics and general genetics and about the equivalency of different types of biological science courses to a subsequent higher biology course after general biology, and someone on SDN knows about it, I would like to know.



AP examinations. Sorry for that tone in my pixels. I just don't want to spend my time participating in the weed out class when I don't have to. I could be learning about things I want and spending time doing fun ECs instead of going through that drudgery. I would learn all about basic Mendelian genetics in my plant genetics course. I would learn all about basic Darwinian evolution when I study for the MCAT.

And yeah, plants.
You thought wrong. This is a specific question for the medical school that makes decisions about pre-reqs. It's not something that SDN can answer.
 
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Okay, clearly you're not heeding the warnings nor do you care, so here I go.

Assuming that you even score decently on the MCAT without taking the (correct) subjects ON THE MCAT, I do not think they'll take it over someone who has taken micro/molecular biology courses. As most people have stated, and as we should know from elementary school, plants and humans are different. Those people who have taken micro/molecular biology classes are going to have a serious advantage when it comes to the foundation of their education.

"Medical school will teach me how to be a medical doctor" ok but why should you get a seat over someone who enjoys/put up with learning animal biology?

Have you considered PhD? Other avenues where you can learn about plants and actually apply it?

Edit: I agree with previous poster, you sound hard to deal with and arrogant. You're not too good for that weed out class.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
If you have AP credit then just apply to schools that accept it and do whatever you want since you are going to anyway despite everyone advising against it
I just wanted to know if it would be allowed. I don't need you guys telling me what classes to take. That's ridiculous. It's none of your business. I never asked for your opinions on what classes to take. Those are my decisions to make. I was wanting to know if I could switch out my microbiology courses with plant science courses. The answer to this question is an important part in my figuring that out.

I didn't say I was too good for the course. I said that I don't have to take it, and don't feel like I'd gain a lot out of it from what I've observed at my school.

I just want to take like 3 or 4 plant and soil science classes. That's what I've chosen that I want to do.

The question was about:

The equivalency of general genetics and plant genetics

and

The equivalency of a higher level botany course to a "subsequent higher course" to general biology.

Botany is considered biology when calculating BCPM, so I thought this was a decent question. But I guess if I don't follow your orders in choosing classes, I'm just some arrogant prick.
 

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If there is an explicitly stated course required for a medical school you need to take that course or one with a comparable syllabus and credits that would work as a substitute. Otherwise, if the school is just looking for "upper level bio" courses, it has to have BIO in the course ID to count. BIOLOGY 4000 vs BOTANY 4000 = Biology counting but not the botany. If the plant bio/botany course has BIO in the course ID then there is no reason why it shouldn't count, therefore it would be a safe option. Those are standard rules and if you're doing anything different from that your only safe bet is to take the required courses instead or call the schools to ask about it
 
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Contact your state med school and ask them. This is entirely a school-specific question; each school has its own requirements and preferences for how you meet them. Some schools will be somewhat flexible and others won't. Keep in mind that even if your state med school is somehow okay with you taking a plant biology class instead of gen bio, other schools may not be. You will very likely have to take Gen Bio, if you want to go to medical school.
You thought wrong. This is a specific question for the medical school that makes decisions about pre-reqs. It's not something that SDN can answer.
Alright then. I'd still like to know if anybody knows anything about the general consensus on this. I wouldn't want to limit myself to just my state school if they allow it. This is understandable tough. Thanks.

They are also much less likely to take it if your plant bio course doesn't have a lab with it. Running the gauntlet of the weed-out classes is a part of being pre-med and will save you a lot of trouble by just sucking it up and taking it.
There would be plenty of labs.
 
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If there is an explicitly stated course required for a medical school you need to take that course or one with a comparable syllabus and credits that would work as a substitute. Otherwise, if the school is just looking for "upper level bio" courses, it has to have BIO in the course ID to count. BIOLOGY 4000 vs BOTANY 4000 = Biology counting but not the botany. If the plant bio/botany course has BIO in the course ID then there is no reason why it shouldn't count, therefore it would be a safe option. Those are standard rules and if you're doing anything different from that your only safe bet is to take the required courses instead or call the schools to ask about it
So a botany course would count as a biology course when calculating BCPM, but when being used as a substitute, "BIO" or "BIOL" has to be in the course ID? Does that mean that a microbiology course labeled MICR wouldn't count?
 

GBCrzzyy

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So a botany course would count as a biology course when calculating BCPM, but when being used as a substitute, "BIO" or "BIOL" has to be in the course ID? Does that mean that a microbiology course labeled MICR wouldn't count?
BCPM can vary depending on the school too honestly. For instance, I have a **** ton of veterinary science courses that schools may or may not consider natural sciences and factor into BCPM. I've heard both. If they say "12 or more credits of 300+ biology" It has to have BIOL in the ID. If they require "microbiology" as a course, generally speaking it can be MICR or BIOL as the course ID. Different undergrad schools do it differently. For instance, when I took microbio at my school, the code was BIOL because we don't have a microbio department so it would be the only course with a MICR code and that just doesn't make much sense. The ID for a specific course shouldn't matter as much as the name/syllabus/credits do. for instance MICR 300 Microbiology or BIOL 300 Microbiology should make no difference. However if it was ENGL 300 Microbiology that would be really weird and very questionable.

Does that answer your question better? I'm not trying to tell you which classes to take just advise you to choose the class that will qualify for the requirements the school asks for otherwise you'll end up taking them anyways under a conditional acceptance.
 
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BCPM can vary depending on the school too honestly. For instance, I have a **** ton of veterinary science courses that schools may or may not consider natural sciences and factor into BCPM. I've heard both. If they say "12 or more credits of 300+ biology" It has to have BIOL in the ID. If they require "microbiology" as a course, generally speaking it can be MICR or BIOL as the course ID. Different undergrad schools do it differently. For instance, when I took microbio at my school, the code was BIOL because we don't have a microbio department so it would be the only course with a MICR code and that just doesn't make much sense. The ID for a specific course shouldn't matter as much as the name/syllabus/credits do. for instance MICR 300 Microbiology or BIOL 300 Microbiology should make no difference. However if it was ENGL 300 Microbiology that would be really weird and very questionable.

Does that answer your question better? I'm not trying to tell you which classes to take just advise you to choose the class that will qualify for the requirements the school asks for otherwise you'll end up taking them anyways under a conditional acceptance.
A question about conditional acceptances, would needing one hurt my chance at being accepted into a med school? I have great grades and ECs so far. Obviously the grades depend on a lot of factors, but my ECs are going well and it seems that I can continue them for a long time. As for the MCAT, I can only hope it goes well.

And sorry about that, I would understand getting course advice if it was directly related to the admissions process and pre-requisites; however, I didn't ask for opinions on which classes prepare me for the MCAT or med school courses better. I don't mean any hostility or arrogance. It's simply not something I asked for.
 

GBCrzzyy

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A question about conditional acceptances, would needing one hurt my chance at being accepted into a med school? I have great grades and ECs so far. Obviously the grades depend on a lot of factors, but my ECs are going well and it seems that I can continue them for a long time. As for the MCAT, I can only hope it goes well.

And sorry about that, I would understand getting course advice if it was directly related to the admissions process and pre-requisites; however, I didn't ask for opinions on which classes prepare me for the MCAT or med school courses better. I don't mean any hostility or arrogance. It's simply not something I asked for.
The rule of thumb is to apply after you have completed at least three years of undergrad. Not having all classes or requirements completed should not really hurt you. I would say most people apply after their Junior year, therefore their acceptances are all going to be conditional on completing their degree/maintaining above a certain gpa/completing certain classes in their final year. It won't help you but it won't hurt you either. The more classes (especially prereqs) that you have completed by the time you apply the better because they have more to judge you on and a better view of your performance. Basically, as long as all needed prereqs are done with satisfactory grades before you matriculate it should not cause you trouble
 
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The rule of thumb is to apply after you have completed at least three years of undergrad. Not having all classes or requirements completed should not really hurt you. I would say most people apply after their Junior year, therefore their acceptances are all going to be conditional on completing their degree/maintaining above a certain gpa/completing certain classes in their final year. It won't help you but it won't hurt you either. The more classes (especially prereqs) that you have completed by the time you apply the better because they have more to judge you on and a better view of your performance. Basically, as long as all needed prereqs are done with satisfactory grades before you matriculate it should not cause you trouble
Cool, so basically I can take the plant classes, but I might have to take animal bio and genetics my senior year. Seems good enough to me. If I maintain a good GPA, I'm confident that my course load will show academic capability. I simply wouldn't have the biology courses. Thanks
 

GBCrzzyy

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Cool, so basically I can take the plant classes, but I might have to take animal bio and genetics my senior year. Seems good enough to me. If I maintain a good GPA, I'm confident that my course load will show academic capability. I simply wouldn't have the biology courses. Thanks
No problem!
 
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I just wanted to know if it would be allowed. I don't need you guys telling me what classes to take. That's ridiculous. It's none of your business. I never asked for your opinions on what classes to take. Those are my decisions to make. I was wanting to know if I could switch out my microbiology courses with plant science courses. The answer to this question is an important part in my figuring that out.

I didn't say I was too good for the course. I said that I don't have to take it, and don't feel like I'd gain a lot out of it from what I've observed at my school.

I just want to take like 3 or 4 plant and soil science classes. That's what I've chosen that I want to do.

The question was about:

The equivalency of general genetics and plant genetics

and

The equivalency of a higher level botany course to a "subsequent higher course" to general biology.

Botany is considered biology when calculating BCPM, so I thought this was a decent question. But I guess if I don't follow your orders in choosing classes, I'm just some arrogant prick.
Are you always this dense and stubborn? You said you have AP credit for bio. Many schools accept AP credit. What is the issue? I can think of one school where genetics is a pre-req and zero where micro, molecular, or cell bio is one.

You're jeopardizing your performance on the MCAT, but at least you'll always be able to fall back on farming if you don't get into med school.
 

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If you claim AP credit and want upper division credit in that same subject to fulfill the recommendation, you can take any class within that subject. It doesn't matter.

Can you exchange plant genetics for genetics? Idk maybe, that's a question for individual schools
 

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Why don't you take both general and plant genetics? TBH it's all the same, how do you think Mendel started?

This is an Internet forum where no one is held accountable for the "advice" they post. If you want a definitive answer contact AAMC, your HPO, and the schools you're interested in. Yes, it's a lot of work, but that's what you're asking for.
 
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Am I the only one still wondering why you want to take plant based biology classes and want to go to HUMAN medical school. As far as I know there still is not a plant medical school, But those darn liberals may have their way one of these days I tell ya hwat!

Seriously though, why not advance your human anatomy knowledge or physiology rather than plant based knowledge when this won't do much to further your future career? Is this just elective reasoning? Genuinely curious, not trying to just poke fun.
 
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Are you always this dense and stubborn? You said you have AP credit for bio. Many schools accept AP credit. What is the issue? I can think of one school where genetics is a pre-req and zero where micro, molecular, or cell bio is one.

You're jeopardizing your performance on the MCAT, but at least you'll always be able to fall back on farming if you don't get into med school.
The issue is if a BOT or PLNT tagged course can count as an upper level BIO course (Because many schools require one with an AP'd course), and if a plant genetics class can count as a genetics course.

I feel that I have an adequate understanding of Introductory bio for now. I am a chemical engineering major. I don't have time for a 4 hour class that I do not want or need to take. I've successfully tested out of the class, and I intend to make use of that. I've got 4 available slots for electives in all 3 years that I have left. I want to enjoy my undergraduate. Part of that is to take elective classes that I will enjoy. I don't understand why you guys have a problem with someone who is probably 1000 miles away in a rural area wanting to take 4 classes about plants. I've got an introductory biology book, and I happen to know how to read. I don't see why I have to take retake introductory biology to get a good MCAT score.

I understand that you guys think my lack of introductory bio and opting for plant genetics is going to hurt my MCAT score. I asked about admissions and the equivalency of courses. I'm not being dense; you guys aren't reading the question that I posted and clarified multiple times. I was very careful to articulate that I cared about admissions and equivalency. I shrugged off the other advice, because I didn't ask for it.

Am I the only one still wondering why you want to take plant based biology classes and want to go to HUMAN medical school. As far as I know there still is not a plant medical school, But those darn liberals may have their way one of these days I tell ya hwat!

Seriously though, why not advance your human anatomy knowledge or physiology rather than plant based knowledge when this won't do much to further your future career? Is this just elective reasoning? Genuinely curious, not trying to just poke fun.
I've got 4 elective courses left. I think plants are pretty cool. Because my uni is an ag school, I think this is a great opportunity to learn about growing and breeding plants. I might want to have a garden one day or something. If I get into med school, I'll learn all about animal and human biology. Right now I want to learn a little about plants.
 
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I think OP secretly just wants to start an illegal grow operation on the side.
nah...:whistle:

seriously though, any adcoms with ideas on the equivalencies? I'd like to hear from one, even if the answer is simply "call the med schools".
 
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Fair enough sir. Good luck to you in your endeavors then, here's to matriculation!!

I've got 4 elective courses left. I think plants are pretty cool. Because my uni is an ag school, I think this is a great opportunity to learn about growing and breeding plants. I might want to have a garden one day or something. If I get into med school, I'll learn all about animal and human biology. Right now I want to learn a little about plants.
 

Lawper

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The issue is if a BOT or PLNT tagged course can count as an upper level BIO course (Because many schools require one with an AP'd course), and if a plant genetics class can count as a genetics course.
https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fastly.net/production/media/filer_public/e5/68/e5687e03-f55e-4ce6-a4e4-892eaab328dc/amcas_course_classification_guide.pdf

Botany is listed as biology in the AMCAS Course Classification Guide. This may likely extend to related plant biology courses.

Am I the only one still wondering why you want to take plant based biology classes and want to go to HUMAN medical school. As far as I know there still is not a plant medical school, But those darn liberals may have their way one of these days I tell ya hwat!

Seriously though, why not advance your human anatomy knowledge or physiology rather than plant based knowledge when this won't do much to further your future career? Is this just elective reasoning? Genuinely curious, not trying to just poke fun.
Because OP doesn't want to? Maybe he wants to study human medicine in medical school while spending his undergraduate years focusing on the subjects he likes?
 
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JustAPhD

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Am I the only one still wondering why you want to take plant based biology classes and want to go to HUMAN medical school. As far as I know there still is not a plant medical school, But those darn liberals may have their way one of these days I tell ya hwat!

Seriously though, why not advance your human anatomy knowledge or physiology rather than plant based knowledge when this won't do much to further your future career? Is this just elective reasoning? Genuinely curious, not trying to just poke fun.
Many people get into med school with degrees in art, history, philosophy, etc. I'm sure OP's medical career will be just fine if he chooses to learn a bit about plants.
 
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Yes and this is generally, at least from what I have seen, nontraditional students who have made a career change. The point of college is to learn a marketable skill for career purposes generally, I understand this is not the only reason people attend. I just don't otherwise see a benefit for a student's future to take classes outside of their desired career line if they are going to actively pursuing medical school. You will have enough debt, why add to the load?

Regardless I was curious as to his reasoning and I got his answer.
 

JustAPhD

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Yes and this is generally, at least from what I have seen, nontraditional students who have made a career change. The point of college is to learn a marketable skill for career purposes generally, I understand this is not the only reason people attend.
Eh, I know of a handful of premeds who are art/history/etc who were premed from the start, not people who pivoted to medicine as a career change.

I just don't otherwise see a benefit for a student's future to take classes outside of their desired career line if they are going to actively pursuing medical school. You will have enough debt, why add to the load?
Many people actually advocate students take classes outside of their intended career. It's never a poor thing to be well-rounded, and 4.0 medicine autobots are nice and everything, but taking some philosophy courses won't hurt anyone. In fact, the argument can be made that taking that extra physiology course is a waste of time because you will have to relearn it (in greater detail) in medical school anyway.

I agree about the debt, but in most instances the students are not taking in any more debt because they are paying for the credits regardless.
 
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Goro

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As an Adcom, I consider "ecology"or botany-based classes like what you want to take to be less rigorous that if you had taken animal biology courses. You need to consider that med schools look to cull the herd from the thousands of apps they get for the few hundreds of seats they have.

That said, people with the bare minimums of pre-reqs get into med school. But I worry that with the direction you're taking you're setting yourself up for disaster on the MCAT.

Long ago, when I was a 1st year Biology student (and pre-med for maybe 10 minutes), my Bio 1 course was 100% animal biology...mostly taxonomy. My Bio 2 was 50% botany and 50% cell biology.

Also keep in mind that SDN is not a place for hugs and kisses, but realistic advice.



I just wanted to know if it would be allowed. I don't need you guys telling me what classes to take. That's ridiculous. It's none of your business. I never asked for your opinions on what classes to take. Those are my decisions to make. I was wanting to know if I could switch out my microbiology courses with plant science courses. The answer to this question is an important part in my figuring that out.

I didn't say I was too good for the course. I said that I don't have to take it, and don't feel like I'd gain a lot out of it from what I've observed at my school.

I just want to take like 3 or 4 plant and soil science classes. That's what I've chosen that I want to do.

The question was about:

The equivalency of general genetics and plant genetics

and

The equivalency of a higher level botany course to a "subsequent higher course" to general biology.

Botany is considered biology when calculating BCPM, so I thought this was a decent question. But I guess if I don't follow your orders in choosing classes, I'm just some arrogant prick.
 
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Lawper

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As an Adcom, I consider "ecology"or botany-based classes like what you want to take to be less rigorous that if you had taken animal biology courses.
Why?
 

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Lawper

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Have you taken botany? Limnology? Sorry, just can't compare with Physiology or Anatomy.
I'm just curious how adcoms would compare rigor between courses. I admit I took only two ecology/evolution courses and they weren't difficult compared to biochemistry/developmental biology, but I'm not sure could the same be applied for courses in different majors (say an 18th century literature course vs an engineering course on fluid dynamics).
 

Goro

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People will approach this with thier own perspectives. being a Fine Arts minor, I know what those courses are like (and they're no picnic either, when you're writing an essay every two weeks). I've also had colleagues who look at the courses taken by candidates who have attended the same UG school that the Adcom members did, and view things through that personal prism.


I'm just curious how adcoms would compare rigor between courses. I admit I took only two ecology/evolution courses and they weren't difficult compared to biochemistry/developmental biology, but I'm not sure could the same be applied for courses in different majors (say an 18th century literature course vs an engineering course on fluid dynamics).
 
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As an Adcom, I consider "ecology"or botany-based classes like what you want to take to be less rigorous that if you had taken animal biology courses. You need to consider that med schools look to cull the herd from the thousands of apps they get for the few hundreds of seats they have.

That said, people with the bare minimums of pre-reqs get into med school. But I worry that with the direction you're taking you're setting yourself up for disaster on the MCAT.

Long ago, when I was a 1st year Biology student (and pre-med for maybe 10 minutes), my Bio 1 course was 100% animal biology...mostly taxonomy. My Bio 2 was 50% botany and 50% cell biology.

Also keep in mind that SDN is not a place for hugs and kisses, but realistic advice.
People will approach this with thier own perspectives. being a Fine Arts minor, I know what those courses are like (and they're no picnic either, when you're writing an essay every two weeks). I've also had colleagues who look at the courses taken by candidates who have attended the same UG school that the Adcom members did, and view things through that personal prism.
Understandable. I wasn't looking for hugs and kisses, just the answer to the question. Does the "people with the bare minimums of pre-reqs" include people who would have to take the class after a conditional acceptance? Also, where would be the best place to learn about conditional acceptances?

And onto the question that everyone seemed to want to answer:

Is an introductory bio course really that important in my MCAT score? I have the book right here. I can read it. I've gone through all this stuff before though. Sure, I'd have to relearn how to do some technical stuff like chi squares, but I remember a lot of stuff like most of the cell biology (all organelles, some functions, and everything about mitosis and meiosis), genetics, and the system for taxonomy. I went to a school that had me in a 2 year long AP course for biology (All AP courses were 2 years long).

I retook general chemistry 2 after testing out of it; I basically had to show up for 4 tests, get 100% on all of them, do a few hw assignments, and receive my A. I reviewed before each exam for maybe a couple hours, but it was all just review. I didn't really think that I gained much from it, and I don't see myself gaining much from introductory biology. I've been gaining a ton from the classes that I haven't taken yet though. They've all been challenging and have really made me sit down and study.

Yes and this is generally, at least from what I have seen, nontraditional students who have made a career change. The point of college is to learn a marketable skill for career purposes generally, I understand this is not the only reason people attend. I just don't otherwise see a benefit for a student's future to take classes outside of their desired career line if they are going to actively pursuing medical school. You will have enough debt, why add to the load?

Regardless I was curious as to his reasoning and I got his answer.
If I get into med school, debt will probably be inevitable. I worked hard to get enough scholarships for a free ride to a state university, so I'm good for now.
 

Goro

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Nope.

Does the "people with the bare minimums of pre-reqs" include people who would have to take the class after a conditional acceptance? Also, where would be the best place to learn about conditional acceptances?

I believe that it is. You might want to better ask those people who have taken MCAT about what their experience was with the Biology content. But if you think that you can do well on MCAT soley with prep material, and not coursework, I fear that you are heading for disaster. The Bio section is the one we Adcoms pay most attention to.

Is an introductory bio course really that important in my MCAT score? I have the book right here. I can read it. I've gone through all this stuff before though. Sure, I'd have to relearn how to do some technical stuff like chi squares, but I remember a lot of stuff like most of the cell biology (all organelles, some functions, and everything about mitosis and meiosis), genetics, and the system for taxonomy. I went to a school that had me in a 2 year long AP course for biology (All AP courses were 2 years long).


In the end, it's your call.
I retook general chemistry 2 after testing out of it; I basically had to show up for 4 tests, get 100% on all of them, do a few hw assignments, and receive my A. I reviewed before each exam for maybe a couple hours, but it was all just review. I didn't really think that I gained much from it, and I don't see myself gaining much from introductory biology. I've been gaining a ton from the classes that I haven't taken yet though. They've all been challenging and have really made me sit down and study.
 

piii

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Are you always this dense and stubborn? You said you have AP credit for bio. Many schools accept AP credit. What is the issue? I can think of one school where genetics is a pre-req and zero where micro, molecular, or cell bio is one.

You're jeopardizing your performance on the MCAT, but at least you'll always be able to fall back on farming if you don't get into med school.
He can become a plant Doctor!
 

Lawper

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OP, you don't need any prereqs to dominate the MCAT. All you need are strong test-taking skills, strong foundation of content being tested (this doesn't have to be from prereqs; KhanAcademy does a good job), ability to answer questions quickly and efficiently in timed conditions (related to test-taking skills), and confidence in exam day.

I believe @gonnif mentioned that few of his advisees did very well on the MCAT without prereqs. So yes it's possible. This also explains why nontrads who were several years off from their prereqs can still crush the MCAT with 39+/522+ with few months of good prep.