I really x 1000 need help :( (SAD)

[scienceisbeauty]

I am in my final year of undergraduate studies. I was in the honours thesis stream. However, my honours thesis advisor and I got into a fight - there has been irreversible damange to the relationship.
I've been told that absolutely absolutely one cannot do an honours thesis with a professor and then not get a letter from them for graduate studies.
So, the head of the thesis committee told me it would probably be in my best interest to drop the honours thesis stream altogether and then just carry on with a just specialist degree.
BUT. Now...it's going to show WDR, WDR for the two honours thesis courses I was taking. I'm afraid this will look really really bad.

I'm planning to start in SEPT 09 SO GOING TO BE APPLYIN SEPT 08

My stats:
- I have a cummulative 3.56 GPA, and in the last year my GPA was 3.76. However, my cummulative GPA is so low because before one of those years started: I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis (but one wouldn't be able to tell from looking at me - i.e. no visible disability).
-I have 1 first-authored paper in prep and another 1st authored paper in the works as well. One is to be submitted to Pedriatrics and the other I'm not sure. (so total of 2 first authored papers)
- I have done 2 independent research studies
-I have recieved a SSHRC grant during the summer
- I have done a ****load of research work starting from my 3rd year (I'm in my 5th year now) - work with 5 different professors on different projects

But now, I don't have my honours thesis anymore...it's just going to show as a withdrawal.... I'm so so so so scared.

Please guys...*desperate* What do you think will happen ; how do you think this will affect my chances of getting in??? *SO SCARED*

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[Therapist4Chnge]

It sounds like you have a lot of other strong points in your app. I didn't do an honors thesis (I was caught up the dot com boom...money talks ), and I still got multiple interviews from some pretty good schools.

Though it may feel like the end of the world, it is just a bump in the road.

-t

 

[scienceisbeauty]

It's not the just not doing an honours thesis, but both not doing an honours thesis AND it showing on my transcript as WITHDRAWALS from the two classes in question: they will know that the two classess are honours thesis classes.

.....

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If they ask, be honest, but I wouldn't be too paranoid. I know it seems like a huge deal, but most/all programs look at the whole package.

-t

 

[scienceisbeauty]

My honours supervisor at that time got into a bit of a disagreement which put a heavy strain on the relationship?
See I dunno, I'm getting mixed advice from this end. Someone told me that I'm not going to get into a clinical psych program now...
they said someone with an honours thesis would look way more competitive than I would

 

[psychanon]

Would it be a lie to say that you dropped the honors thesis program for medical reasons (your MS)? You shouldn't lie, but it'd be OK to omit portions of the facts that may give the wrong impression about you. What was the fight with your advisor about? Was it theoretical or personal? Is she/he known to be hard to work with. You definitely want to avoid sending the impression that you are hard to work with, which may be the easiest conclusion to draw after hearing that you got into a fight with your advisor.

I don't think this is is make-or-break issue, just one that you may want to finesse a bit.

 

[scienceisbeauty]

Should I say, where they ask if you want to explain something:

In my fourth year of university, I was accepted into an honours thesis stream - a program restricted to only top students in the Psychology department, and to this effect the honours thesis stream is a competitive program limited to approximately 15 students per annum. However, in my final year of university and the year in which I'd complete my honours thesis, several health issues affected my ability to complete this requirement. I thus, made what I felt was the most mature and reasonable decision given the surrounding circumstances, and decided to withdraw from the honours thesis stream.
Despite this decision, I continued to maintain a strong committment to contributing to research and to this extent I did [insert stuff]. Doing this [insert stuff] allowed me to focus and sustain my commitment to the scientist practioner model blah blah blah

Something like that?

I'm just worried....I dunno...this all just happened yesterday (the talking with the thesis coordinator and deciding to withdraw)
thanxs for ur guyses help so far .....*feels a bit better*

 

[deleted176373]

I am in my final year of undergraduate studies. I was in the honours thesis stream. However, my honours thesis advisor and I got into a fight - there has been irreversible damange to the relationship.

Same thing happened to me.

I've been told that absolutely absolutely one cannot do an honours thesis with a professor and then not get a letter from them for graduate studies.
So, the head of the thesis committee told me it would probably be in my best interest to drop the honours thesis stream altogether and then just carry on with a just specialist degree.

Find an advisor who likes you and is willing to help. Even if you have to find a sociology professor and change your work to reflect the multidisciplinary flavor of having a new thesis advisor. (This is exactly what I did and I am SOOOO happy I fired the former advisor.)

BUT. Now...it's going to show WDR, WDR for the two honours thesis courses I was taking. I'm afraid this will look really really bad.
I'm planning to start in Sept 10 so therefore start applications in Sept 09.

My stats:
- I have a cummulative 3.56 GPA, and in the last year my GPA was 3.76. However, my cummulative GPA is so low because before one of those years started: I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis (but one wouldn't be able to tell from looking at me - i.e. no visible disability).

-I have 1 first-authored paper in prep and another 1st authored paper in the works as well. One is to be submitted to Pedriatrics and the other I'm not sure. (so total of 2 first authored papers)

- I have done 2 independent research studies

-I have recieved a SSHRC grant during the summer

- I have done a ****load of research work starting from my 3rd year (I'm in my 5th year now) - work with 5 different professors on different projects

But now, I don't have my honours thesis anymore...it's just going to show as a withdrawal.... I'm so so so so scared.

Don't let yourself get bullied around. Hold your advisors feet to the fire. I had to do this too. I sent my Honor's proposal throughout the honors college so I had documentation as to the quality of the work when my professor tried to burn me. I forced an A out of her. She didn't want the fight that bad and figured that giving up the A was the quickest and easiest way to dispose of me. Document, Document, Document.

Please guys...*desperate* What do you think will happen ; how do you think this will affect my chances of getting in??? *SO SCARED*

I think you have good credentials and you should be fine, but having this hanging over you seems a little unfair if you've done the work.

Mark

 

[scienceisbeauty]

I'm just so sad and disappointed I think. I'm so glad this forum is here such that I can feel somewhat reassured as to my potential as a graduate school student.

I'm just sad and down today..this is all so new...

Ok, regarding the thesis: there isn't much work done so far, the way it works here is that you do a preliminary thesis (with an advisor) and then do an honours thesis (with a different advisor). So, I have a pretty good thesis for the honours thesis but it's not anywhere near completion...there are still a substantial number of conditions to test.

AND I spoke with the thesis advisor and she said it's too late now to change advisors because I'd have to go through a lot of the ethics, blah blah again and that would waste a lot of life and it's just far too late...to switch

But regarding how I word why there are two withdrawals on my transcript......

I dunno *so sad and disoriented*

I'm trying to be less sad. I really am. It's just....so not the way I saw it going.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You just need to put together the best app you can and go with it. Trust me, no one has a perfect app, and if you can get to the interview stage you can show them that you are the best FIT for their program. Just like in business, I'd take the best FIT over the best applicant every day....because a stack of papers isn't going to be in the lab with me every day for 4-5 years, the best FIT will be.

-t

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Awww I'm sorry you're so upset.

I had three VW's on my transcript and nobody said anything. You've got research experience so a thesis isn't crucial. I know it seems like a huge catastrophe because it's so recent, but this won't break you. I've become a cynic in recent months due to my own crappy experience with department politics, but I wouldn't advise mentioning anything about the conflict between yourself and the advisor. Say that it was health issues, or talk about the problem in extremely vague terms.

Honestly though, I don't think it will come up. You're qualified, you'll do well.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Oh and also, you have SSHRC! That's huge! I've tried twice now and been rejected in a hilarious fashion both times. SSHRC is a big sign that says "take me!" to grad schools.

 

[scienceisbeauty]

I'm feeling a bit less sad. I guess that's good...
This is almost like a process of grieving; the 'what could have been', 'might have been'
And to me, 'if only...' are the saddest words when combined that the English language has to offer...

But . But. I sort of need to know guys...with this withdrawal it is -1.5 credits on my transcript
And that meansthat I have to add more coures in the spring so that I can have a minimum of 8 full credits for application ...

BUT I also want to really do much research ...and if ..I dunno..this whole thing is depressing me...but I'm just thinking: if I said that my withdrawal had to do with 'health issues' then...wouldn't they question my ability to engage in coursework?
(medium sad -- not as fully sad as before)

 

[WaitingKills]

.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Listen, getting into PhD Clinical Psych programs, can be the luck of the draw sometimes...you can have everything perfectly presented and still not get it. This gives you an edge...controversy...something to talk about...an imperfection. Dealing with patients from a clinical psychology perspective has a lot to do with the imperfect world.

My advice is to not let this situation create any more negative energy inside of you. Sounds like you know how to explain and justify the situation on an intelligible level. Go with it and focus on presenting yourself as a human who has learned and made mistakes. Sidenote: if you mention the argument with your professor, make sure it paints you in a positive light, i.e. like he/she was too rigid and you needed flexibility.

Good luck!

 

[deleted176373]

Listen, getting into PhD Clinical Psych programs, can be the luck of the draw sometimes...you can have everything perfectly presented and still not get it. This gives you an edge...controversy...something to talk about...an imperfection. Dealing with patients from a clinical psychology perspective has a lot to do with the imperfect world.

My advice is to not let this situation create any more negative energy inside of you. Sounds like you know how to explain and justify the situation on an intelligible level. Go with it and focus on presenting yourself as a human who has learned and made mistakes. Sidenote: if you mention the argument with your professor, make sure it paints you in a positive light, i.e. like he/she was too rigid and you needed flexibility.

Good luck!

Cheetahgirl puts it rather well. This is certainly not the end for you. Stay positive.

Part of the way this affects grad school interviews is the way you handle it. You should expect at least one professor at one interview somewhere along the way to ask about it. If you can demonstrate that you handled it in an adult fashion, you will be just fine.

One possible spin on the lack of an LOR is that although you wrote a thesis with professor A, you felt that your relationship with the other professors was closer and more indicative of how you would relate to professors in a graduate school environment. That you felt "disconnected and distant" with your thesis adviser and from this you learned the importance of fit and how critical it is to apply to the right programs to get a good match. Knowing that every program you applied to may not be a good fit shows maturity and provides a nice spin that doesn't make you or your thesis adviser look bad.

As a matter of fact, you should stay strictly positive about that adviser in interviews. "I thought professor X's research is wonderful, but we just never developed a close bond that I feel you need to have a successful long term collaboration", is not negative. "We had a big fight and that bastard screwed me on my thesis", probably won't fly as well.


Mark

PS - I would like to thank Dr. T.Z. for teaching me all about bad thesis advisors, and Dr. J.F. for showing me what a lifetime mentor is like!

 

[Ollie123]

What the last two posters said x10.

How you frame things is the key here. Disclosing health problems is fine so long as they are framed as a learning experience rather than an excuse (even if a perfectly valid one).

In this case though, I wouldn't go there. For one because you never know who will know your thesis advisor and chat with them about current applicants. If you're found to be lying, you're probably toast right then and there, but being honest about disagreeing with them might be fine.

First though...I don't know what happened between the two of you so I can't really comment, but are you certain the relationship cannot be repaired? If it is not, are you absolutely positive you cannot switch advisors? Have you talked to someone higher up or another faculty member who you can trust about how to handle the situation?

 

[scienceisbeauty]

I spoke to the thesis head; she is in charge of the honours thesis stream. She said that the relationship btwn D (thesis supervisor) and me is "toxic"; she said -- "I'd try and get away from that as soon as could; it's just an awful relationship"
I asked her if she thought the relationship could be improved...she said : I'd give it 2 years not 4 months which is what is left really...

I asked her about switching supervisors; she said that it was too late because I'd have to go through presenting, data, etc all over again and that just wouldn't fly since the thesis is supposed to be finished by April...


Yeah it's true that a person I'm applying to may know my thesis supervisor buuut I don't know; do you think they would call him even after I submit 3 LOR from some reallly top notch professors?

Actually ya maybe they might meet at some conference or the like...

So, can I say that although I felt that my thesis supervisor (or used to be thesis supervisor) was a great person, a great professor, I found that our research interests somewhat clashed, and because I had the opportunity to work with a different professor on a project that was more appealing to my research interests; and given the medical circumstances surrounding my life at the time - , it was a mutual decision between Prof D and I to have me withdraw from the honours thesis stream so that I could pursue further my alternate interests...something like that?

 

[deleted176373]

So, can I say that although I felt that my thesis supervisor (or used to be thesis supervisor) was a great person, a great professor, I found that our research interests somewhat clashed, and because I had the opportunity to work with a different professor on a project that was more appealing to my research interests; and given the medical circumstances surrounding my life at the time - , it was a mutual decision between Prof D and I to have me withdraw from the honours thesis stream so that I could pursue further my alternate interests...something like that?

I would say that it was your decision, that you made after consultation with people you respected in the department, because this is not your advisers decision... it is yours.

Personally I would stick it out and get it done. It's four months. You don't have to live with it forever and if they try to torpedo you, then you have your documentation ready. I would make the thesis adviser pay for it by having to see your project through. Your adviser can't fire you as a student, you can fire them as an adviser... and this is how you should look at it. You are the consumer here and you are paying good money to attend school... get your money's worth. What is the worst that will happen, you get a B?

Mark

 

[scienceisbeauty]

See, it's not really my decision...per say...
Just the thesis advisor said that if I don't get a letter from my thesis advisor it will look really funny
And if even I say oh I decided not to get a letter because other people know my research capabilities better, I'd be pretty hard pressed to make that true
See, I would have been working with him for 1 year.

The other professors I worked with: one for 2 years (so this works), but the other ones for a semester really intensely (so no), and then for for a summer (SSHRC grant) -- so I dunno, or if not that person the person I'll work with over the year while I'm applying...I dunno...

But she said: even if I don't get a letter from him, then people might call him and ask about me...just because they'll find it funny that I didn't get a letter from my honors thesis advisor (and say they do so before I even get or if I even get an interview)

so they might call and be like what's up...with S (me)

I don't actually want to drop out of the honours thesis stream, it's just supposed to be the way I cover my arse so that no one calls him about me...
at least that's what the thesis supervisor said to me

tell me whatcha guys thinks...pweese..

 

[deleted176373]

See, it's not really my decision...per say...

so they might call and be like what's up...with S (me)

I don't actually want to drop out of the honours thesis stream, it's just supposed to be the way I cover my arse so that no one calls him about me...
at least that's what the thesis supervisor said to me

tell me whatcha guys thinks...pweese..

They might call, they might not. If you don't send them your honors thesis advisers name, then how will they know who is your thesis adviser? They could guess, they could call, they could be pretty damn busy and just decide for themselves.

Do you think your adviser is going to say something negative about you?

You are right, if your thesis adviser is not writing you a letter then you should be picking someone who will trump a thesis adviser LOR. People who helped you with getting your first authored papers, the head of your honors program, the president of your school. Your thesis adviser isn't the end all be all of the universe. Like I said, Dean of the Psychology Dept, Dean of the Honors Dept, and your mentor who helped you get your papers into a journal are all great options.

You have options, play it cleverly and you could avoid the situation. Department Chairs are powerful endorsements, and they are endorsements that can supersede that of a thesis adviser. Since you have articles in print, I am sure that someone worked intimately with you there, that's what makes it all ok. Published work is the holy grail of the undergraduate application.

Mark

 

[scienceisbeauty]

Basically:
WDR = better than Thesis with bad reference from advisor
So said the thesis supervisor overseer

She said that if I write the honours thesis, I have to mention the honours thesis supervisor's name ; so they WILL know who he is

I asked other faculty members, they said too they would find it funny if I didn't have a letter from my honours thesis advisor and they would ask around/about/do some investigating

They said it's particularly so because I have an otherwise strong application that they'd bother to check out

I am going to get a letter from the person with whom I am authoring papers
I am going to get a letter from my SSHRC summer grant supervisor
I am going to get a letter from either the person I end up working for during the summer/year of my application year (so I'm going to be working for this person Sept '09 - before I go [if I get in] so will have worked for the person in the summer and the semester before and while apps are due)
I am going to see if I can get a letter from this famous person I worked for last year and am continuing to work for this year who is famous (but I'm not so sure because I don't have direct 1-1 contact with him)

Still I very much worry about how the WDR will look on my transcript: it feels like there's a black mark and its all the fault of my having an awful relationship with my thesis supervisor


I'm just ......still raw....from the shock of all of this...grieving is more the word..

 

[thewesternsky]

There's really nothing you can do to repair the relationship with your advisor? Because that's clearly the best plan. I'm having trouble imagining a situation (short of sexual harrassment, perhaps) where things between an advisor and a student could go irreparably wrong.

If not, I would say withdraw and if asked say it's because of interest match and health reasons. Then work to make your application the best it can be without the thesis.

 

[deleted176373]

Still I very much worry about how the WDR will look on my transcript: it feels like there's a black mark and its all the fault of my having an awful relationship with my thesis supervisor


I'm just ......still raw....from the shock of all of this...grieving is more the word..

Your application is so strong in so many other areas that I would not freak out about this at all. Even without a thesis, I think you are fine since you have a publication. Seriously. The only thing that I can see as being a downside is that if pressed about not getting a good LOR from your thesis adviser vs having a completed thesis with no letter from the thesis advisor is this.

Q:Why did you withdraw?

A: However you answer, you failed to complete a thesis you started.

Q: Why don't you have an LOR from your thesis advisor?

A: The relationship went sour but I accomplished the thesis despite it.

Withdrawing shows that you were beaten and didn't persevere in the face of an adverse situation. Not having a LOR from your professor may raise eyebrows but it shows that you complete what you start.

How you handle the WDR question is up to you. There really is no wrong answer. Professors are human and understand that not all mentor/student pairings are successful, some of them have even been there done that themselves.

I know that I was pretty devastated when I went through the same nonsense.

Mark

 

[scienceisbeauty]

I spoke with the thesis supervisor who said:
I doubt that you can repair your relationship with P.B. in the amount oftime that is left...then tensions between the two of you are toxic. And I would try to step as far away as possiblefrom that relationship if I were you...

 

[deleted176373]

I spoke with the thesis supervisor who said:
I doubt that you can repair your relationship with P.B. in the amount oftime that is left...then tensions between the two of you are toxic. And I would try to step as far away as possiblefrom that relationship if I were you...

That is just unbelievable. First of all it's the thesis supervisors job to help repair these relationships or to resolve them so that you the student doesn't get screwed. I must admit I am pretty floored. Something is wrong with the people in that department unless you are a really horrible person, which I somehow doubt. Short of being the child of Charlie Manson, you should be ok.

I feel for you, maybe someone else will have better advice than me.

Mark

 

[scienceisbeauty]

Markp: I'm not a horrible person , you's right! I think my thesis supervisor and I had a huge huge misunderstanding and he was just like "nope sorry" no excuses about the thing. I dunno. I explained the situation to many people and showed them the back-and-forth emails and then pwrfl ppl agreed with me, and other ppl agreed (few only) with him...but it's too strange if I can't get a letter from him

All of yous have given me some hope that I'm not completely screwed just because I don't have an honours thesis ...
Ok, but what I'm worried bout too is the fact that now that's -1.5 courses from my transcript, and, it's going to show up as if during that semester, I had an EASY semester (only 2 courses because that 1.5 is gone), and then they may question why I only have an 85% in a course and a 94% in another; but my grades, especially that 85% one were lower BECAUSE I was so hung up on spending time on the honours thesis

Now, I won't have those to excuse (not really excuse but to buffer I guess) those low marks...

I was getting a 92 in the thesis course...and now it will be WDR and that sucks

See had I had the thesis course, they wouldn't have questioned the low grades as much as they might now...I dunno
Then also:

If I say I withdrew from my honours thesis course because of a combination of health related and research differences ...they might be like whoa: health related? We dont want to take a risk on accepting an unhealthy student...I dunno...then also, I'm registered now in EXTRA (7 courses) next term and that is a HEAVY courseload...I feel like I have to do this because grad schools I'm told look mostly at your last 2 years ...and they want at minimum 8 full credits in those last two years..

I was told 10 is the norm then 9 is ok and 8 is absolute minimum...

I dunno...

Thanks guys for helping ...*HUG* to all of yous

 

[psychwanabe]

I feel your pain and I'm so sorry you're having to deal with faculty who are apparently not mature enough to move past personality differences in order to do their job. I had a similar situation last year. I started working with my senior thesis advisor the summer after my junior year. I thought the person was really nice and very helpful. I was so excited about it! I found out about 6 months into the work that this person was manipulative, passive aggressive, paranoid, etc. We did the email-fight thing b/c this person was too immature to sit and talk to me. I bent over and took it and took it b/c I needed to get my thesis done to graduate with honors!

I had the worst 6 months of my life as I tried to work with this person while staying out of the way and not coming face-to-face as much as possible. It made the last half of my senior year absolute hell.

The bottom line is that lots of students get into graduate programs without theses. It seems like you're getting advice from people you trust. I honestly don't understand why, if the thesis supervisor agrees with you, he/she isn't finding someone else to supervise you in order to help you out. It seems like a weird situation all the way around.

If you decide to stay with your advisor, you just need to know it's going to be rough. If you either don't have a choice, or you decide to leave, then you need to spin it right. You've gotten good advice on this thread.

One question you're likely to be asked in interviews: "tell me about a situation in which you had differences with someone and what you did about it?"

Well you can list the things you did in this situation: tried to work it out, changed whatever you were doing wrong, apologized if you were wrong (I assume you did both those things if they apply), sought advice from authority figures you trust, knew when it wasn't able to be "fixed" and cut your losses.

Good luck! This, too, shall pass

 

[socialcog]

I find this entire situation very strange, dramatic but (from what I can gather) not totally uncommon. I have heard similar horror stories where the natural proclivity of the PIs is to exude intimidation. Extreme things I've heard include throwing manuscripts prepared by grad students across the office and yelling expletives. WTF?! What kind of manager behaves in this manner?

If this is the climate to be expected....sheesh....I don't know if I could tolerate that.

Hang in there. Use it somehow to rise above.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It sounds like you aren't seeing the forest through the trees at this moment. You are focusing on one small part, while ignoring the rest of your application, which seems quite strong.

Ironically enough, here is something I read on PostSecret this morning, and I thought it was worth posting.

In case it doesn't show: http://bp2.blogger.com/_a7jkcMVp5Vg/R2Uro8hM2gI/AAAAAAAACqI/uO9HXmxtbHc/s400/GPAWTF.jpg

-t

 

[Ollie123]

I find this entire situation very strange, dramatic but (from what I can gather) not totally uncommon. I have heard similar horror stories where the natural proclivity of the PIs is to exude intimidation. Extreme things I've heard include throwing manuscripts prepared by grad students across the office and yelling expletives. WTF?! What kind of manager behaves in this manner?

Good lord, never heard of that happening!

Some advisors are more warm and fuzzy than others, and I'm comfortable (and probably prefer) someone who gives direct, harsh feedback in the interest of making something better than someone overwhelmingly positive who might let problems slide. But throwing things across the room is just plain unprofessional! Calling it terrible is reasonable (provided it actually is), and if I write something awful, I certainly hope my advisor would call me out on it and tell me its awful. There's a HUGE difference between "this is terrible" and throwing things though - that difference is a professional with high standards vs. a child throwing a tantrum.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Good lord, never heard of that happening!

Some advisors are more warm and fuzzy than others, and I'm comfortable (and probably prefer) someone who gives direct, harsh feedback in the interest of making something better than someone overwhelmingly positive who might let problems slide. But throwing things across the room is just plain unprofessional! Calling it terrible is reasonable (provided it actually is), and if I write something awful, I certainly hope my advisor would call me out on it and tell me its awful. There's a HUGE difference between "this is terrible" and throwing things though - that difference is a professional with high standards vs. a child throwing a tantrum.

Haha, agreed.

It's all in the delivery. My advisor wrote "you fail" across my SSHRC application when he was supposed to be editing it. It wasn't helpful at all and he found it hilarious. Had he just told me what was wrong with it, maybe I could have actually learned something.

 

[scienceisbeauty]

Okay, a bunch of ppl have been PMing me regarding what the fight with my advisor was about, and I *WILL* tell everyone: just tmr.

I have to write up a letter for withdrawal *feels sick* and give it to the dean's office tomorrow as I'm meeting with someone about the whole thing. I've scheduled 3 appointments: # 1 : deans office to give them my letter # 2 a different professor who can just tell me what to do from here # 3 a counsellor because I feel SO SO SO SO sad, just so down and raw about the whole thing

I found out 2 things: after I talk to the dean's office I can withdraw my withdrawal IF I don't officially sign the authorization forms, so I'ma wait for the talk with the other prof ...
I'll let ya'll know about the fight (what happened, how it all started, etc) and how it goes tomorrow after I get back...

*still a little down but feeling a bit better*

Thanks ya'll for your help -- also feel free to msg with more comments ...

 

[Neuro-Dr]

I'm on the other side and have looked at/reviewed well over 100 grad apps for clinical. I would not think twice about the WD even if you can't get rid of them. Your application on the other merits is clearly strong enough with good GRE scores.

I would spend some time (later on) trying to figure out how you got yourself into such a "toxic" relationship and how to avoid that in the future. There may be some things down the road that lead to some growth for you.

 

[scienceisbeauty]

Wow, that msg from Neuro-Dr made me SO happy.

Thanks awesomely much. It also reminded me that I didn't really 'splain what happened

1. So I've sent in my petition to withdraw - it was a tough decision to make but it's been sent and it is on its way for approval

2. Fight with the prof: haven't talked since the 12/13th of December. But it all started because he wanted me to do some last minute change to a presentation for the next day. Well, I had an exam the next day so I said there would be no way I'd be able to prepare an entirely new presentation in such a short amount of time. Basically, he had asked me to whip up a new presentation in a 7 hour span.
He wanted it done by the 11th at 5pm. But I had an exam at 7pm on the 11th. I had to prepare for that as well. On top of that, he wanted me to do NEW readings and form new hypothesis and run the data on this new hypothesis to see if it fit. *IN 7 HOURS*!
I offered to finish it after my exam. I said, I can do the first part: Ie integrate the hypothesis, change the intro, do the new readings, and change the first part. But I won't be able to change the data/results ...because there's just not sufficient time.
I apologized even. It was HIS decision to tell me last minute he wanted all the changes.
again offered to do itafter my exam. I said I was willin to stay up the whole night.
He accused me of not caring about the thesis.
and it just escalated.

So I went to the thesis supervisor for advice the day after my exam.

She read all the back and forth emails and said ...hmmm that's not the way P.B. explained it to me. He said you just outright refused. She said that there are some problems with him. She said he was so pissed. She offered me support but said that I should step as far away from the relationship as possible. But to email to tell him that she was willing to support me in a withdrawal.

I did that. AND then he was all like, oh why'd you go talk to her behind my back. But remember she told me "That's not the way P.B. explained it to me" meaning HE had gone and talked to her BEFORE I talked to her.
It just was awful.

So anyway. I have 4 letters of support. 2 acknowledgements of support. And back and forth clear solid unaltered emails as evidence for withdrawal.

Sigh. I'll know by Jan 8th what happens. But thank you very very much Neuro - Dr. And thanks everyone else!! I'll let ya'll know what happens.

 

[char111]

there are many roads to where you want to get to, and not having an honours certificate is not going to stop you.

you know what your capable of, why let a piece of paper and top-dog antics dictate your abilities to achieve your goals.

heaps of people opt out of honours and choose a grad dip; it will not deine you or your career

workplaces just want to know you can do the job the way they want it-they have no idea half the time what an honours stream is!

don't buy into the elitist hype that honours is a must, or is needed to be part of the club.

 

[scienceisbeauty]

Dicey mean words exchanged between my professor and I today. But I'm not going to let it stress me.
But boy were the tensions so sharp you could cut diamonds with them.

 

[Aura5]

Man, it's odd to see you despairing so bad when you have a LOT of other stuff going for you. As opposed to me, who doesn' even have a psychology degree, let alone an honor's thesis or any research experience or LoR from psych proffs - yet I still have this hope that if I do enough outside-catching up, I'll get into a good program of some sort.

*Crawls into a hole and sulks* just kidding. but, from what I've gathered on the rest of this site, and what the people said on this thread, you should be fine. I know what it's like to want everything right, and when one thing goes wrong, it's as if the world is over. That's happened to me a lot in the past. I'll fly off the handle for something that didn't go as planned/wasn't what should have happened, and later realize it made no difference at all. I guess problems in life just have to be dealt with either way, might as well be minus all the angst (which is WAY easier said than done, trust me, b/c I'm like that too! though have gotten a lot better lately.) Anyway so yeah. good luck.