I shadowed in pathology today...

[Firebird]

I shadowed a pathologist today and it was pretty cool. It was a little different than I thought.

At first every cell looked exactly the same, except for the architecture. Then I started seeing some noticeable differences...but those of you who are path people, does it get easier and easier, or do you need to just be "gifted" with the ability to see the different colors, shapes, sizes, etc?

She did a little bit of grossing today, as well...which I thought was interesting, but I was a little overwhelmed at first as she pulled a human leg out of a brown paper bag. I didn't get woozy or anything, but it was a very surreal scence.

One more question for those who would know. Do you get bored staring at slides for hours on end every day?

Later....

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Magree]

Hi Firebird:

You get better - I was astonished at what the experience pathologists could pick out in just a few seconds. Some people are better with patterns/shapes etc. but everyone improves. You also get used to fragments of gross anatomy. Some people thrive with path - others miss the clinical stuff too much. Its very personal.

M-

 

[Doctora Foxy]

I know I am nowhere near what you guys are up to, but I shadowed a dermatopathologist after my freshman year of college for the whole summer, so I know a *little bit* about this.

At the beginning, I used to fall asleep with my face in the microscope. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> Everything looked the same and it was really boring since I had no idea how to differentiate between the biopsies. Then after a while it all sunk in and it became clear. I studied path textbooks to learn the basics and I think after you get more familiar with what you're looking at you'll be able to differentiate between the types of cells. Once that happens, it's like playing jeapardy. :wink:

 

[Firebird]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Magree:
•Hi Firebird:

You get better - I was astonished at what the experience pathologists could pick out in just a few seconds. Some people are better with patterns/shapes etc. but everyone improves. You also get used to fragments of gross anatomy. Some people thrive with path - others miss the clinical stuff too much. Its very personal.

M-•••••I agree about the clinical side. The lady today has absolutely no clinical experience and it is by choice. She said however at another nearby hospital, pathologists choose to do lots of FNA's etc. So it appeared from her comments that Pathologists sometimes get a choice of clinical work or not...assuming that you consider doing only FNA's "clinical work".

 

[ussdfiant]

I shadowed a pathologist last summer and it was great. She had to do a gross on a uterus, among other things, that was infested with fibroid tumors.

 

[KyGrlDr2B]

Firebird: Perhaps you should take Histology before you graduate from Marshall. It is offerred in spring only and is taught by Dr. Hight. I just took it this past semester and it is tough (and you do get tired of staring through a 'scope), but you do learn a lot.

 

[Jersey Girl]

My senior year as an undergrad I shadowed a group of 9 pathologists. I got to see several autopsies. It was so interesting. I had a "vasovagel syncope" during my first autopsy I observed. I hit the floor like a brick when they peeled back the skin on the face to prepare for removing the brain. It was such a great experience though, I feel like I am totally desensitized to the site of blood now. Wouldn't want to be passing out in med school. It's definately very cool.

 

[Mindy]

Hey Firebird! Ahh a path talk, long time! Here are my thoughts.(BTW, its official for me, I am going to apply for path next year.) For anyone who doesn't know me, I was a post-soph fellow in path 2 years ago.

1) Pathology is pattern recognition. It is something like being able to spot poison ivy in patch of weeds. "Normal, normal, normal, uh oh." I think that some people are more gifted at this than others...BUT, I think you can learn to become proficient at it AND there is NO WAY after 1 day of shadowing you could tell if you were gifted in this regard or not.

2) At first the microscope gives you headaches, your neck and back hurt, you feel like you are going to go blind, and you develop tunnel vision. This lasted nearly a month for me. And it can make you nauseated if you are not the one driving the scope. I think these things go away for most people after some time. Advice: keep the microscope's light source down as low as possible--cuts down on eye-strain.

3) Watching someone else drive the slides gets boring QUICKLY! I new of a PSF who literally learned how to fall asleep with their head resting against the scope at particularly long morning signouts. Driving the slides yourself is infinitely more interesting. You do have to be able to concentrate for long periods of time (pathology is NOT a good specialty for folks with attention deficits!)

4) Grossing was actually one of my favorite parts of pathology. I never could believe how DISGUSTING some of the things were (like legs in bags and ovarian teratomas complete with hair and teeth!) Getting the right "slice" of tissue for processing becomes an art after a while.

Anyway, these are a few of my thoughts on your post. I do think there is a certain personality type that is best suited for pathology. It is a specialty that deals in some ways with the macabre (I have had many experiences in pathology that I feel would be better suited for a horror movie than a career). You have to be willing to be behind the scenes (patients do not know or thank their pathologists). You have to develop business skills, because the laboratory mirrors the business model more so than many other specialties.

Well, that's it for now!

Mindy

 

[Dr Sardonicus]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a "post soph fellow" ??

 

[Fah-Q]

I took histology and pathology...its all still pink and purple to me.

 

[ApacheIndian]

I'm gonna assume those of you who've replied here are interested in/considering Path. That said, can you enlighten me on a few things... how's the residency? tough vs. cush? How's the $$$ and lifestyle after residency? I have my opinions, but I'd like to hear your unbias views. Thanks.

 

[Mindy]

Post-sophomore fellowship in pathology: 1 year paid fellowship after you 2nd year of medical school where you essentially function as a first year path resident.

Residency: Markedly better lifestyle than virtually any other I have encountered. Little call, decent typical non-medical work week predominantly. Though I did put in my share of 14 hour days during surgical pathology. Also autopsies, frozen sections, and catching up on slides will bring you in to the lab over many weekends.

Money post-residency: Forensics 90-130 K; "General" 120-180 K; Cyto/Derm 150-200+ K. This is at least the impression I get from the job postings I have seen recently on-line. (Try google search pathologist job -speech -plant)

Advice: Pathology is so different from any other field of medicine (and in many ways this includes even radiology) that you better get some experience in it before you commit. As many people as I know that love it, I also know of many a resident changing fields after experiencing it first hand.

As always,

Mindy

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Sure sometimes I get bored looking at slides, but then something real cool will come through or I will get up take a nice break, turn on some music or whatever then get back to it. Even on surg path I prob do not spend anymore than 4 hours a day looking at slides.

I gets easier and easier to make things out under the microscope as time goes by. I still do not know the answers all the time or most of the time for that matter But, I can now usually tell if things are normal or not. And, there are tons of books to help me find the answer.

Path is not a specialty for someone who doesn't like to self study.

Path residency is cool. Avg about 50 hours a week on all but surgical path. There I normally work 70+ hours.

There are other areas in Pathology besides cytology (FNA)you have patient contact, such as blood banking, apheresis and hematopathology. Also, some people go into public health from pathology.

There was some great advice about the microscope earlier. One other thing I would suggest have some motion sickness medication close by when you first start out.

The money figures that were mentioned are a on the low side for private practice, derm and cyto. Private practice salaries start around 170ish with partnership in 3 or 4 years. Then, big raise. Cyto and esp Derm are very hot specialties and salaries go much higher.

And, yes you will be grossed out a few times. Autopsy is not for everyone, but you have to do at least 50 during residency. Then, depending on the practice you will may never do them again. I think forensics is cool. I wish it paid better.

And, like Mindy said spend some time in path if you can. And, not just surgical path also clinical path because you will want to do both during residency. For those nice private practice jobs you will be asked to cover not only surgical services but clinical services as well.

 

[Firebird]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by KyGrlDr2B:
•Firebird: Perhaps you should take Histology before you graduate from Marshall. It is offerred in spring only and is taught by Dr. Hight. I just took it this past semester and it is tough (and you do get tired of staring through a 'scope), but you do learn a lot.•••••Erin...I have thought about doing that, and I probably will. Everyone says Dr. Hight is really tough--especially in anatomy--but it will probably be worth it. It has also been suggested that I take cell, genetics, micro, and anatomy. I feel more like a bio major than a chemistry major.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the info. Here's something else to talk about...we've covered this here before, but I would like to hear Mindy's perspective. What's the job availibility look like now? How many residents go to work for a hospital and how many go to a private lab?

Rob

 

[GreatPumpkin]

Firebird,

Not many pathologist go to work for a hospital as an employee. Most go into private practice in a group of pathologists and contract to the hospital.

I still see everyone getting jobs with no problems (and with multiple offers) from my program. No one I have talked to has anything bad to say about the job market right now. Who knows what will happen in 4 years when two classes worth of pathologists graduate at the same time. Could be interesting. It is hard for someone to judge the job market in path from outside because unlike many professions path jobs are usually never advertised. And, the ones that are advertised are normally ones no one wants. The CAP website has job listings but only members can view them. Last time I looked there were around 100 listings nationwide.

 

[Mindy]

I have to ask, why are we all up this late on a saturday chatting about this :wink: ? My "sources" say that job market is pretty ripe right now. As GP always advises, knowledge of available positions is hard to come by if your not a member of the inner circle... HOWEVER, its been clear to me that I now find a bunch more listings on-line and in the path journals than I did a year ago. Check out path gopher (run by u. of minnesota, i think) for a list of many available jobs. I would have to defer the specifics of job types to GP since he is in a position to be much more knowledgeable regarding who employs whom in pathology.

Once more,

Mindy

 

[KyGrlDr2B]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Firebird:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by KyGrlDr2B:
•Firebird: Perhaps you should take Histology before you graduate from Marshall. It is offerred in spring only and is taught by Dr. Hight. I just took it this past semester and it is tough (and you do get tired of staring through a 'scope), but you do learn a lot.•••••Erin...I have thought about doing that, and I probably will. Everyone says Dr. Hight is really tough--especially in anatomy--but it will probably be worth it. It has also been suggested that I take cell, genetics, micro, and anatomy. I feel more like a bio major than a chemistry major.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the info. Here's something else to talk about...we've covered this here before, but I would like to hear Mindy's perspective. What's the job availibility look like now? How many residents go to work for a hospital and how many go to a private lab?

Rob•••••I know of several chem majors who took bio classes after they found out they were accepted into medical school. And I think a few took them to get ready for the MCAT. Dr. Hight loved me and asked me to keep in touch with her after graduation so if you end up taking her, I know how you should act so she'll like you.