I STILL Don't Know How To Feel

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a 3.3 masters gpa isnt favorable amigo

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a 3.3 masters gpa isnt favorable amigo

I'm 50,000 in debt already....20,000 from undergraduate and 30,000 from the graduate year courses that I took.


Are you suggesting I do ANOTHER Master's? My problem isn't my 3.3, it's my 2.9

But if you're suggesting I take another 30 grand in loans for a year Master's, then I'm afraid I need to look for other options to raise my GPA.
 
Honestly it isn't your 2.9 that is hurting you. Plenty of people with that kind of GPA in UG that did a masters after got into dental school.

Your issue is a 2.9 followed by a 3.3 at a Masters program that is supposed to be easy and isn't one of the really well known masters programs. A 3.3 after a 2.9 doesn't seem like you matured that much or learned from your mistakes. It seems like you got a bit better, but haven't fully learned. If you had achieved like a 3.8 at a good masters program then this probably would not be an issue at all. You need to have dramatic improvement after a 2.9.

I had a 3.2 last year when I applied, could have graduated, but delayed my graduation so I could take more undergrad classes to boost my gpa. I took classes like reproductive physiology, biochem, o chem 2 lab, anatomy, a masters level bio class, animal behavior and a bunch more. I received 1 B+, 1 A- and like 8 A's. My DAT retake was taken on Halloween and I received 4 interviews so far (USC, Temple, NYU and LECOM).

I put in the hard work for 3 extra semesters (summer included) and my lowest gpa was a 3.73 with the other 2 being a 3.82 and a 3.9 something. You should have done better in your Masters and gone to the MWU masters program since you would have been guaranteed a interview if you maintained a certain GPA. You can't keep blaming it on the 2.9 and if you want to make it further you have to realize you need to fix some bad habits because dental school will be a lot harder then UG and your masters program.
 
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Honestly it isn't your 2.9 that is hurting you. Plenty of people with that kind of GPA in UG that did a masters after got into dental school.

Your issue is a 2.9 followed by a 3.3 at a Masters program that is supposed to be easy and isn't one of the really well known masters programs. A 3.3 after a 2.9 doesn't seem like you matured that much or learned from your mistakes. It seems like you got a bit better, but haven't fully learned. If you had achieved like a 3.8 at a good masters program then this probably would not be an issue at all. You need to have dramatic improvement after a 2.9.

I had a 3.2 last year when I applied, could have graduated, but delayed my graduation so I could take more undergrad classes to boost my gpa. I took classes like reproductive physiology, biochem, o chem 2 lab, anatomy, a masters level bio class, animal behavior and a bunch more. I received 1 B+, 1 A- and like 8 A's. My DAT retake was taken on Halloween and I received 4 interviews so far (USC, Temple, NYU and LECOM).

I put in the hard work for 3 extra semesters (summer included) and my lowest gpa was a 3.73 with the other 2 being a 3.82 and a 3.9 something. You should have done better in your Masters and gone to the MWU masters program since you would have been guaranteed a interview if you maintained a certain GPA. You can't keep blaming it on the 2.9 and if you want to make it further you have to realize you need to fix some bad habits because dental school will be a lot harder then UG and your masters program.

:thumbup:

I too think this is exactly what's keeping you down.

Sure a 2.9 undergrad sGPA is really low, but it's not the end of the world. I myself have a sGPA of 2.94 -- we're essentially the same. So in cases like this you enroll in a master's program as sort of a "redemption". Was it really that you were immature and not focused in undergrad or is it simply you're not putting all of your effort into it? 3.3 in a masters tells me that you haven't matured much or devoted your time to making this happen. Granted you're a bright guy, I mean your DAT speaks for that, BUT the DAT is only one test... sure you blew it away but that's only one test. Dental schools want to be assured you're in this for the long haul and won't fail out or drop out a year or two into the program. Ok, so you can test really well... how come this isn't seen through your masters? No endurance.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean or negative about it, but I'm not really sure what you do when you've already done a masters and didn't do so hot in it. I would be contacting every school you're interested in attending, tell them your story if they allow, and ask them what you can do from here. Whatever they tell you, do exactly that and no excuses what-so-ever.

Good luck :luck:
 
I'm 50,000 in debt already....20,000 from undergraduate and 30,000 from the graduate year courses that I took.


Are you suggesting I do ANOTHER Master's? My problem isn't my 3.3, it's my 2.9

But if you're suggesting I take another 30 grand in loans for a year Master's, then I'm afraid I need to look for other options to raise my GPA.

right, your 2.9 is a problem...which is why your masters should have compensated for it..but it really didn't.

what i was suggesting before, is that you look back into the school that you took your masters at and try to enroll in a 6 month certificate program or something just so you can take more graduate courses. You won't have to enroll in another masters and you won't have to pay that more

you only have 1 real option here...and that's to continue graduate level coursework to prove yourself. so whether it's through another masters or through a certificate program you're gonna have to do it.

good luck.
 
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Personally, I'd throw in the towel if you don't get in this round off the wait lists that you're on but that's my view. However, it's only March so you still may get in but it's prudent to have a game plan for next cycle. Start considering other career options - I think you'd have a shot at DO medical schools and / or Caribbean programs if you're okay with that. No doubt, that $50K student loan applies added pressure to your situation.
 
you forgot to get good grades in your masters program

bazinga

Yep...exactly. With all the time you spend on SDN, you should know what to expect. People do master's programs to get 3.8+, not a 3.3. You seem to be fishing for compliments on these forums too, and when people put you down you just get pissed.

And you don't even answer people's questions about where you got waitlisted at and stuff, yet you expect others to tell you every little detail. Why so secretive dude? Afraid you'll get made fun of in real life? Seriously...
 
Yep...exactly. With all the time you spend on SDN, you should know what to expect. People do master's programs to get 3.8+, not a 3.3. You seem to be fishing for compliments on these forums too, and when people put you down you just get pissed.

And you don't even answer people's questions about where you got waitlisted at and stuff, yet you expect others to tell you every little detail. Why so secretive dude? Afraid you'll get made fun of in real life? Seriously...

It's secretive because I plan on revealing after I hopefully get in.

If you guys are suggesting that my Master's program is the problem, then I really don't even know what to say. I can't update that. It's 1 year or graduate courses. I can't take anymore and I don't plan on spending another 30 grand.

As for taking more classes, that might be a solution. As for calling it quits, I can't do that. I've been wanting to become a dentist since the 7th grade. I've taken all high school science AP courses and majored in what I majored with the sole purpose of dental school.

It's always been on my mind. I refuse to give up when I'm THIS F*CKING close to the finish line. For f*ck's sake, I got two interviews, which is more than a lot of people.

If I plan to re-apply in June, I hope to do some summer courses and some fall semester courses for the fall academic update.
 
It's always been on my mind. I refuse to give up when I'm THIS F*CKING close to the finish line. For f*ck's sake, I got two interviews, which is more than a lot of people.

If I plan to re-apply in June, I hope to do some summer courses and some fall semester courses for the fall academic update.

Is that really necessary? With that kind of attitude, I don't see how you'll be a personable dentist.

And you're not even close to the finish line, getting into dental school is only passing the first test. You have 4 years of pretty tough education to go through.

Open your eyes man, just apply again in June/early July if this cycle doesn't work out for you.
 
Just tell us the schools, why do you have to be secretive? No one is going to call the school and mention you. People want to know since that way we can give you advice of what other people did to get off the waitlist for the certain schools.
 
youre the only person who pushed yourself away from your dream

Another year, another new thread :) Some things never change...

Mr. Sunshine over there isn't wrong. Posting on SDN =/= applying yourself. Maybe if you had, you wouldn't be so concerned about adcoms figuring out who you are, and you could tell us where you interviewed.

PS: I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Ultimatehombre only speaks the truth.

UltimateHombre said:
I have said it before and i will say it again... Podiatry.

Good luck brotha!
 
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If you guys are suggesting that my Master's program is the problem, then I really don't even know what to say. I can't update that. It's 1 year or graduate courses. I can't take anymore and I don't plan on spending another 30 grand.

They're suggesting that your whole academic record, indicative of your level of maturity, is the problem.

And you're right, there isn't a whole lot to say against that...

2PacClone23 said:
I refuse to give up when I'm THIS F*CKING close to the finish line.

Lol, "the finish line?" .... oh brother, getting accepted is the equivalent of turning on the ignition key...
 
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They're suggesting that your whole academic record, indicative of your level of maturity, is the problem.

And you're right, there isn't a whole lot to say against that...



Lol, "the finish line?" .... oh brother, getting accepted is the equivalent of turning on the ignition key...

Well you know what I mean. They always say "getting into Harvard is harder than graduating from Harvard" or undergraduate school in general. That was my point.

As for the 2 interviews comment, I just mentioned that because people in my other thread had told me to keep my chin up and consider myself lucky since I got the interviews.


As for the waitlist business, I shall wait until after April 1 and see where everything goes.
 
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Well you know what I mean. They always say "getting into Harvard is harder than graduating from Harvard" or undergraduate school in general. That was my point.

As for the 2 interviews comment, I just mentioned that because people in my other thread had told me to keep my chin up and consider myself lucky since I got the interviews.


As for the waitlist business, I shall wait until after April 1 and see where everything goes.

Based on your performance in your master's degree, you are lucky that you even got an interview and even waitlisted. If I was part of the adcom, I don't think I would have even given you an interview. Your grad gpa did not show that you really wanted dentistry as bad as you make it out to be. Otherwise, you would have made a 4.0. Getting good grades is not that hard, it just requires a lot of work.

As for getting in, I think that was probably the easiest part of dental school. If you can't handle a master's degree, you will get destroyed in dental school. This is why I would not accept you.
 
Cut him some slacks guys. The fact that he made this thread shows that he knows what mistakes he had made and is anxious now. He needs advise, and if you guys can not say anything nice or any advise at all, then it's best not to say anything at all.
This is my advise to you 2pacClone23. If you know dentistry is in you heart, then keep going for it. Apply again if you are not accepted to see how it goes. As for the moment, you have exhausted almost all of your options. I do no think taking more classes would give a better results since you have already tried and failed.
 
Cut him some slacks guys. The fact that he made this thread shows that he knows what mistakes he had made and is anxious now. He needs advise, and if you guys can not say anything nice or any advise at all, then it's best not to say anything at all.
This is my advise to you 2pacClone23. If you know dentistry is in you heart, then keep going for it. Apply again if you are not accepted to see how it goes. As for the moment, you have exhausted almost all of your options. I do no think taking more classes would give a better results since you have already tried and failed.

:smack:
 
Cut him some slacks guys. The fact that he made this thread shows that he knows what mistakes he had made and is anxious now. He needs advise, and if you guys can not say anything nice or any advise at all, then it's best not to say anything at all.
This is my advise to you 2pacClone23. If you know dentistry is in you heart, then keep going for it. Apply again if you are not accepted to see how it goes. As for the moment, you have exhausted almost all of your options. I do no think taking more classes would give a better results since you have already tried and failed.

I wouldn't call a "3.3" a fail. You guys were just saying how a 2.9 is totally "acceptable" then the next minute, you're insulting my master's GPA.

Whatever the case is, I hope I get in and I shall update this thread as it moves on forward. I am optimistic.
 
Did not mean it that way. I meant you failed in getting an impressive +3.8 master. That would have really made a difference.
 
Your undergrad gpa is low but not so low that it can't be fixed. Unfortunately your masters gpa is also low (at my school under a 3.0 is considered failing for grad students). I think i you really want dentistry and nothing else will do you need to get yourself into another masters program, ideally one that is affiliated with a dschool where they will accept you if you perform well (I think Creighton has one of these) or as program that has a history of getting students into med/dschool and kill it.

If you don't want to borrow more money look into what masters programs your state school offers and get into one there. You need to kill your academics in whatever program you choose, if you get a 3.3 again I think you chances (at least for many years, there are always the much older nontrads) is done.

Dental schools their choice of more than enough quality students, you need to make yourself stand out. Especially since your stats are (and likely always will be) on the low side make sure the rest of your application is stellar. Get a job as a dental assistant and rack up 1000+ hours, make sure you have a bunch of volunteer experience, make sure you have leadership experience (and not just being president of whatever club and not actually doing anything, have something to show for it). In your next academic endeavor goth all of your professors office hours, make sure they really know you so you get outstanding letters of recommendation.

You're obviously smart enough to succeed in academics when you try, your DAT shows that. It's time to stop making excuses, stop drinking or playing video games or whatever is keeping you from studying and make getting into dental school your 100 hour a week job for the next year.
 
Stop being such a primadonna 2pac. If you wanted to be a dentist since you were in 7th grade, you would have tried harder the first time in undergrad, and you would have tried even harder in graduate school. Clearly you didn't and now you are dealing with the consequences.

If you believe in a higher power, pray that you get in off of a waitlist. If you're young, take a stab at some more classes and give dentistry one last shot (assuming that the waitlists don't pan out). It makes no sense for you to take anything that isn't at the graduate level, because if you can barely handle a graduate courseload..why would you go back and take classes at a 4 year or even a CC? Seriously? That would look a bit suspect to an admissions committee, wouldn't it?
 
I've been on this forum for 3 years detailing everything and following y'all advice.

2Pac... you know this isn't true bro. I remember 2 years ago, everyone was telling you not to do a MS degree and go for postbac instead. I specifically remember myself, dentalworks, lnngu, maygver, and others saying you can always get your masters after a postbac. Yet you refused and did the MS program and you didn't get the grades you needed and you still have a 2.9 UGPA. Now you want to fix it?! The time for that was 2 years ago brotha, before your MS program.

Cut him some slacks guys.

Cut him some slack, what do you think we have been doing for the past 2-3 years. Yet he continually doesn't do what is required of him. He didn't even get his MS he failed the comprehensive exam... Not even a piece of paper for all his hard work and 30K extra in debt. Then this year, he hasn't done anything else to help his app and now he wants in?! Ridiculous...

They're suggesting that your whole academic record, indicative of your level of maturity, is the problem.

So much truth to this statement. You state that dentistry is your dream, yet you don't push yourself hard enough to achieve it. You did nothing to improve your app this year and yet you say dentistry is your dream. You failed your MS comprehensive exam and got a 3.3 in your graduate courses... is that dream worthy?

I remember posting this back in 2011 in one of your threads and i still feel it applies. You keep making excuses instead of finding a solution...

I honestly wish you would just take responsibility for your own actions... seriously, the amount of excuses you spit out is just pitiful. Have some self-respect, own up to your weaknesses and change for the better.

You will probably get defensive to my remarks, because the truth is hard to swallow. But as soon as you man-up and stop making excuses, you will empower yourself and develop the virtues/disciplines you need to make it to d-school.

If you do not develop this self accountability and drive, you can expect to live a life of unhappiness, regret, and mediocrity.

2 years later and you still haven't developed the disciplines needed. It's time to be realistic... you are 50K in debt and likely have close to 150-180 credits, do you really think it is worth another year or two and another 30K to try and boost your GPA .1-.2 points. Cut your losses and go to another professional school. You can be very successful in another profession and there is nothing wrong with that. I beg you to consider podiatry, pharmacy, or optometry. Sorry to be harsh, i just feel like you need some sense knocked into you man. Dentistry may be your dream, but unfortunately you have not qualified yourself for that dream, and it's time to face reality.
 
Cut your losses and go to another professional school. You can be very successful in another profession and there is nothing wrong with that. I beg you to consider podiatry, pharmacy, or optometry.

2pac - listen to UH, this is the way to go.

I know it's probably tough to stomach "giving up" on your dream, but let's be realistic, it's not like you'd be going to work at McDonalds for the rest of your life.
 
I wouldn't call a "3.3" a fail. You guys were just saying how a 2.9 is totally "acceptable" then the next minute, you're insulting my master's GPA.

Whatever the case is, I hope I get in and I shall update this thread as it moves on forward. I am optimistic.

A 2.9 in UG could be revived with a good graduate GPA or a post-bacc. Now that you've tried graduate work, a 3.3 is a fail because the whole point was to show that you can do better with the heavier and tougher workload.

I don't think I need to tell you this, but applying in general is like betting on horses in the derby. The better your odds, the more likely you are to win the race. Right now, you're about a 40:1 horse, and dental schools have a lot of money but they tend to pick safe bets. If you want to increase your odds, then you got to show that you can win the race. And the 3.3 does not convey this.

It's not to be mean, or rude, or insensitive. No one here particularly relishes the fact that you're having a hard time this cycle. And yeah, we'd be happy if you got in. But it would be insult to injury if we didn't bother to tell you that you've gotten yourself into a mixer and that you're going to need to put the big boy pants on if you intend to get out of it if you aren't accepted this cycle.

As for considering other professional schools, the only two that I can think of that would take you as-is are podiatry and optometry, and the latter's not looking so hot ( just lurk their forum :scared: ).

I really do hope you get to chase your dream. Best of luck, OP. :luck:
 
It's a shame that DAT scores eventually expire, but if you got the 23 once, there's no reason you couldn't do that again.

If you don't make it this cycle, are you prepared to continue trying? If so, you might consider working to pay down your debt (perhaps as a dental assistant), taking an UG science class or two (to show your commitment to self-improvement) and doing well in them, doing some more volunteering and shadowing, then applying once you have put some serious time, energy, and thought into your application. You have to redeem yourself, and it may take a couple of years, but you should be really happy that two d-schools were receptive and offered you interviews, that says you're really not that far off the mark.
 
This is risky but if you're applying THIS upcoming cycle, I would retake DATs and try to get a 27+. 2.9/3.3/27+ will get you an interview from somewhere.

It's difficult but I personally know 2 people who did so its not impossible. Since you don't want to take more grad/master classes, this would be the only way to go.

It's a hail-mary, but at this point you don't have many options
 
you know how they say glass is really just a liquid material that's moving/melting in really slow motion?

OP's pre-dental saga is kinda like that.
 
you know how they say glass is really just a liquid material that's moving/melting in really slow motion?

OP's pre-dental saga is kinda like that.

dschools break those glasses unless students apply extreme heat and turn it into liquid.

in 2pac's case he's the one who shattered in his own glass
 
Not gonna happen... chances of getting a 27+ are slim to none. Not trying to be rude, but you may have exhausted your options. I think that you could still possibly get in off of a wait list but doing another masters/ taking more classes is going to help all that much. If you don't get in you might want to consider a different route.

Furthermore, 2pac has already taken the DAT three times... he would have to get written permission for a 4th and i am not sure that would happen since, he already achieved such high marks.

2pac, good luck man. Hope life works out for you!
 
Furthermore, 2pac has already taken the DAT three times... he would have to get written permission for a 4th and i am not sure that would happen since, he already achieved such high marks.

I took it 4 times, all you need is a rejection letter from the previous cycle.
 
2Pac... you know this isn't true bro. I remember 2 years ago, everyone was telling you not to do a MS degree and go for postbac instead. I specifically remember myself, dentalworks, lnngu, maygver, and others saying you can always get your masters after a postbac. Yet you refused and did the MS program and you didn't get the grades you needed and you still have a 2.9 UGPA. Now you want to fix it?! The time for that was 2 years ago brotha, before your MS program.



Cut him some slack, what do you think we have been doing for the past 2-3 years. Yet he continually doesn't do what is required of him. He didn't even get his MS he failed the comprehensive exam... Not even a piece of paper for all his hard work and 30K extra in debt. Then this year, he hasn't done anything else to help his app and now he wants in?! Ridiculous...



So much truth to this statement. You state that dentistry is your dream, yet you don't push yourself hard enough to achieve it. You did nothing to improve your app this year and yet you say dentistry is your dream. You failed your MS comprehensive exam and got a 3.3 in your graduate courses... is that dream worthy?

I remember posting this back in 2011 in one of your threads and i still feel it applies. You keep making excuses instead of finding a solution...



2 years later and you still haven't developed the disciplines needed. It's time to be realistic... you are 50K in debt and likely have close to 150-180 credits, do you really think it is worth another year or two and another 30K to try and boost your GPA .1-.2 points. Cut your losses and go to another professional school. You can be very successful in another profession and there is nothing wrong with that. I beg you to consider podiatry, pharmacy, or optometry. Sorry to be harsh, i just feel like you need some sense knocked into you man. Dentistry may be your dream, but unfortunately you have not qualified yourself for that dream, and it's time to face reality.

I actually understand everything you are saying. I will try to calculate my GPA using excel and come back and update you guys.
 
Update 4/22/12:

Still nothing. Wait, wait, and more wait.
 
As some of the regular faces around here have probably noticed, I have not posted much since getting into dental school. There are reasons for this that i will explain in a minute.

OP: I look at dental school a whole lot different than I looked at it a year ago. You see, I am not a super smart guy - I earned my grades from working my ass off in undergrad. I earned my DAT by working harder for 3 weeks than I knew possible. Consequently, I have a higher DAT and GPA than my class average (though my DAT is pretty close to class average). That said, I am still a very average dental student despite working extremely hard. The reason is that the amount of effort required to do well is so much more than undergrad. Some say that passing dental is not all that hard, and that might be true at their school. All I know is my school, and just passing requires a serious work ethic - not the kind of work ethic you can learn. There have already been some drop outs because even though they have wanted to be dentists for a long time, they are not cut out for what being a dentist requires of them. There are a few guys here who scored 25+ on their DAT and, just like everyone else here, they have to work very hard. Summed up, intelligence is only one of many things required to do well in dental school. This brings my to my second point:

Wanting to be a dentist is not justification enough for being a dentist. You must be sure that 1) you can illustrate to an adcom that you have the maturity 2) that you have the ability (brains), 3) that you have the work ethic, and 4) the social skills (people skills). I cannot seem stress these enough. I hate to say that I agree with UltimateHombre because I do not like to dissuade people from the profession of their choice, but I do agree with him. The reason I agree is that I think you see dentistry as one thing, when I think it is something quite different... I will admit though, I could be very wrong, but this is what I am seeing. Here is what I would do - you found a profession you like, and are trying to show that you would be a good fit. Rather, try finding a job where you would be a good fit, and then see if you would like it. If not, repeat until you do. The difference here is subtle, but important. If after my little essay here you still feel dentistry is still the best bet, I would begin to focus on the 4 points I posted above, not just point 2. All the best man, :luck: :)
 
I don't remember exactly what U.Hombre said specifically, but I remember agreeing with him/her when I read his/her post. I also agree 100% with Bereno. I'm going to be blunt and people are probably going to dislike what I say, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who is thinking this. In a way, I hope OP doesn't get accepted. Before everyone flames me for being such a terrible person, let me explain.

I've been keeping up with OPs story for quite some time now. I know he has put in a lot of his time and effort in trying to get into DS, and I feel for him. Props to him for not giving up where many others might have after the first or second rejection. This reason alone, I want to say, "Go OP! You can do this!" and I really want him to get in. However, the other side me thinks differently. As others have mentioned, I think the key aspect that is hurting the OP's application is his Master's GPA. Yes, a 3.3 "is not bad" but it really isn't anything to write home about. OP keeps coming back to ask for suggestions, and the community spends their time trying to help him by giving them their .02 (for what it's worth). I know we aren't ADCOMS and we don't know what is actually keeping him from getting accepted (maybe there is a red flag that he is not telling us?) but the fact that he keeps arguing against what many others are saying instead of accept his own fault and trying to fix it does not only show immaturity, but frankly, shows some intellectual weakness as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the OP isn't smart. In fact, I'm sure he is brilliant. It's not easy to score mid 20s on the DATs. However, as the thread moves on, he gets more and more suggestions on how to improve his application, yet he argues against what everyone is telling him every time. It seems like OP is trying to defend his previous decisions and downfalls, and this is just pushing himself further and further away from his goal. This is why I in a way hope the OP doesn't get into DS. Not because he isn't smart. Not because he didn't try hard enough. But as Bereno touched on, lacks the maturity to really achieve in DS and become a dentist. I don't think dentistry is out of the question, but at the moment, I think OP needs to do some soul searching. There comes a point where you just need to accept that you are doing something wrong, get opinions from other perspectives, brainstorm, and fix it! I don't know the OP personally, but the excuses he comes up with like, "I'm not spending more money to do another Masters" or "My 3.3 is not THAT bad, and is not the reason I'm not getting accepted," really tells me something about his character and maturity level. It almost feels like a child is trying to make up some excuse for something he did wrong, and I think that is exactly what Bereno is referring to when he says, "wanting to be a dentist is not justification enough for being a dentist." I think OP needs to work on not just his app, but the skills (the 4 that Bereno mentioned is a good start) in order to really be successful. Even if he does get into DS this cycle, I'm afraid his attitude might put him in a bad spot.

OP: Not to discourage you. But for your own good because it honestly doesn't effect me, really think about what others are saying. Take it with a grain of salt, of course. But stop being so stubborn and accept that you need to change what you are doing to really show the ADCOMS that you are really meant to get into DS and become a dentist. You didn't get into DS for a reason. Change that, and get accepted.

Was this kind of harsh? Maybe. But I think this is something that the OP really needs to read and get through his head.
 
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I don't remember exactly what U.Hombre said specifically, but I remember agreeing with him/her when I read his/her post. I also agree 100% with Bereno. I'm going to be blunt and people are probably going to dislike what I say, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who is thinking this. In a way, I hope OP doesn't get accepted. Before everyone flames me for being such a terrible person, let me explain.

I've been keeping up with OPs story for quite some time now. I know he has put in a lot of his time and effort in trying to get into DS, and I feel for him. Props to him for not giving up where many others might have after the first or second rejection. This reason alone, I want to say, "Go OP! You can do this!" and I really want him to get in. However, the other side me thinks differently. As others have mentioned, I think the key aspect that is hurting the OP's application is his Master's GPA. Yes, a 3.3 "is not bad" but it really isn't anything to write home about. OP keeps coming back to ask for suggestions, and the community spends their time trying to help him by giving them their .02 (for what it's worth). I know we aren't ADCOMS and we don't know what is actually keeping him from getting accepted (maybe there is a red flag that he is not telling us?) but the fact that he keeps arguing against what many others are saying instead of accept his own fault and trying to fix it does not only show immaturity, but frankly, shows some intellectual weakness as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the OP isn't smart. In fact, I'm sure he is brilliant. It's not easy to score mid 20s on the DATs. However, as the thread moves on, he gets more and more suggestions on how to improve his application, yet he argues against what everyone is telling him every time. It seems like OP is trying to defend his previous decisions and downfalls, and this is just pushing himself further and further away from his goal. This is why I in a way hope the OP doesn't get into DS. Not because he isn't smart. Not because he didn't try hard enough. But as Bereno touched on, lacks the maturity to really achieve in DS and become a dentist. I don't think dentistry is out of the question, but at the moment, I think OP needs to do some soul searching. There comes a point where you just need to accept that you are doing something wrong, get opinions from other perspectives, brainstorm, and fix it! I don't know the OP personally, but the excuses he comes up with like, "I'm not spending more money to do another Masters" or "My 3.3 is not THAT bad, and is not the reason I'm not getting accepted," really tells me something about his character and maturity level. It almost feels like a child is trying to make up some excuse for something he did wrong, and I think that is exactly what Bereno is referring to when he says, "wanting to be a dentist is not justification enough for being a dentist." I think OP needs to work on not just his app, but the skills (the 4 that Bereno mentioned is a good start) in order to really be successful. Even if he does get into DS this cycle, I'm afraid his attitude might put him in a bad spot.

OP: Not to discourage you. But for your own good because it honestly doesn't effect me, really think about what others are saying. Take it with a grain of salt, of course. But stop being so stubborn and accept that you need to change what you are doing to really show the ADCOMS that you are really meant to get into DS and become a dentist. You didn't get into DS for a reason. Change that, and get accepted.

Was this kind of harsh? Maybe. But I think this is something that the OP really needs to read and get through his head.

I understand everything you said. But I'm at a point right now, where I'm waitlisted at two schools and I have no idea what to do right now (if I don't get it) and whether or not to apply June 2013 and June 2014.

I don't know how to raise my application's "chances". My GPA sucks, plain and simple.
 
Podiatry, pharmacy, chiropractic med, optometry <--- all good choices. I know a podiatrist who loves their job and are doing very well for themselves. Beautiful family, fantastic hours, goes on vacation several times a year. At some point I think you've got to take a turn instead of continuing down the same dismal road. Props on your perseverance, though, that alone is commendable.
 
Podiatry, pharmacy, chiropractic med, optometry <--- all good choices. I know a podiatrist who loves their job and are doing very well for themselves. Beautiful family, fantastic hours, goes on vacation several times a year. At some point I think you've got to take a turn instead of continuing down the same dismal road. Props on your perseverance, though, that alone is commendable.

Podiatry, as far as I know, besides two schools, require you to take the MCAT.

Plus, I'm here to be a dentist, not a foot doctor.
 
Podiatry, as far as I know, besides two schools, require you to take the MCAT.

Plus, I'm here to be a dentist, not a foot doctor.

But it's getting to the point where it may not be possible anymore. You had your shot, twice, and blew it. People are suggesting other options for you, don't get mad at them for being realistic about your chances.
 
If you don't get in this cycle, you really need to re-evaluate your life. You can't always get what you want.
 
let him do what he want. his life and his choice to deal with... not ours
 
I understand everything you said. But I'm at a point right now, where I'm waitlisted at two schools and I have no idea what to do right now (if I don't get it) and whether or not to apply June 2013 and June 2014.

I don't know how to raise my application's "chances". My GPA sucks, plain and simple.

if your GPA sucks as you mention, why not try to raise it? I say do another Master's, try to be serious this time and try to get a 4.0. If you can't raise your GPA, I think you need to think about other options.

Pharmacy school is not bad. My brother just graduated from pharmacy school last year and he is making 140K his first year. It's not a bad deal at all.
 
I understand everything you said. But I'm at a point right now, where I'm waitlisted at two schools and I have no idea what to do right now (if I don't get it) and whether or not to apply June 2013 and June 2014.

I don't know how to raise my application's "chances". My GPA sucks, plain and simple.

You still don't know man?!?!?????? I've been following your story for awhile now and every time I read your posts, I end up facepalming so hard...

We all know you "want" to be a dentist, but quite frankly, it hasn't shown in your performance. I think you are an intelligent applicant (based off your DAT) but what else have you really done to better your chances? (and succeeded). People here have given you solid advice about how to better your application, yet you find ways to argue against them and come up with excuses (i.e. your "Master's degree"). People here have offered alternatives to dentistry and other avenues where you'll succeed, but you won't budge and keep digging a deeper hole for yourself. YET in all of this, you STILL don't know how to feel or what to do?!?!? I just don't know what you're asking for anymore...

I'm not going to imply anything about your maturity or social skills, but I'd seriously start thinking about the timeline of your career (whether its dentistry, podiatry, pharmacy, whatever). If you don't get off the waitlist this year and re-apply with the SAME application, are you just hoping you'll be luckier next year? Sure, if you have the time and money to kill, re-apply in June 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 or however many more years it'll take. Whats the worst that could happen? More waitlists/rejections, couple thousand dollars more in debt, and spending your 20's in miserable dental limbo?

For your own sake, I hope you hear back a final decision from your waitlists soon so you can come up with a more realistic game plan. Get your **** together and it'll work out. Best of luck man.
 
You still don't know man?!?!?????? I've been following your story for awhile now and every time I read your posts, I end up facepalming so hard...

We all know you "want" to be a dentist, but quite frankly, it hasn't shown in your performance. I think you are an intelligent applicant (based off your DAT) but what else have you really done to better your chances? (and succeeded). People here have given you solid advice about how to better your application, yet you find ways to argue against them and come up with excuses (i.e. your "Master's degree"). People here have offered alternatives to dentistry and other avenues where you'll succeed, but you won't budge and keep digging a deeper hole for yourself. YET in all of this, you STILL don't know how to feel or what to do?!?!? I just don't know what you're asking for anymore...

I'm not going to imply anything about your maturity or social skills, but I'd seriously start thinking about the timeline of your career (whether its dentistry, podiatry, pharmacy, whatever). If you don't get off the waitlist this year and re-apply with the SAME application, are you just hoping you'll be luckier next year? Sure, if you have the time and money to kill, re-apply in June 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 or however many more years it'll take. Whats the worst that could happen? More waitlists/rejections, couple thousand dollars more in debt, and spending your 20's in miserable dental limbo?

For your own sake, I hope you hear back a final decision from your waitlists soon so you can come up with a more realistic game plan. Get your **** together and it'll work out. Best of luck man.

Would you take the MCAT for podiatry school? Would you have to mention that you're applying to TWO professional schools at the same time on AADSAS?

Not to mention, I only have 2 more cycles left until my DAT expires.

Honestly, I might just take classes and raise that GPA. That's my only hope to above 3.1.
 
Maybe you could get gain some work experience (and age) before giving it another shot?? There's a lot of stuff you could do during the next cycle.
 
Would you take the MCAT for podiatry school? Would you have to mention that you're applying to TWO professional schools at the same time on AADSAS?

Not to mention, I only have 2 more cycles left until my DAT expires.

Honestly, I might just take classes and raise that GPA. That's my only hope to above 3.1.

I don't know why you are so against another Masters. How is that any different from "just take classes?" If anything, a Masters would help you significantly more. You mentioned the money for a Masters, but taking classes costs money as well. And you won't be wasting money because if you put yourself to it and do well (3.7+ GPA) you will get into DS. And taking loans out isn't a big deal because honestly, if you don't even want to take 30k out to do a Masters and get into DS, you better pray that you go to your state school because any private DS will top that... easy. And that Masters program will seem like the best deal for a degree you've ever gotten.

Seriously OP. I've only posted twice in this thread and I've been harsh both times. But I really want you to be making the best decision and best chance in getting into a DS. DO A MASTERS! This time, a SMP or a the very least a core Biology Masters at a well-known University, not what you did the first time around.
 
If everyone who wanted to become a dentist, became a dentist, we would all be screwed. There are plenty of interesting non-health jobs out there where you can utilize your education thus far. Maybe you should work in a lab or office somewhere for 20 years and then reapply as a non-trad applicant. It will give you something to talk about in your interviews.
 
I don't know why you are so against another Masters. How is that any different from "just take classes?" If anything, a Masters would help you significantly more. You mentioned the money for a Masters, but taking classes costs money as well. And you won't be wasting money because if you put yourself to it and do well (3.7+ GPA) you will get into DS. And taking loans out isn't a big deal because honestly, if you don't even want to take 30k out to do a Masters and get into DS, you better pray that you go to your state school because any private DS will top that... easy. And that Masters program will seem like the best deal for a degree you've ever gotten.

Seriously OP. I've only posted twice in this thread and I've been harsh both times. But I really want you to be making the best decision and best chance in getting into a DS. DO A MASTERS! This time, a SMP or a the very least a core Biology Masters at a well-known University, not what you did the first time around.

Who's the say I'll get a 3.7+? I obviously tried that this past year and it's easier said than done. Also, you didn't answer my question about taking the MCAT.

Moreover, money could be mitigated if I took these classes at a CC or something.
 
Who's the say I'll get a 3.7+? I obviously tried that this past year and it's easier said than done. Also, you didn't answer my question about taking the MCAT.

Moreover, money could be mitigated if I took these classes at a CC or something.

I wasn't the one you initially quoted, but yes, you do need the MCATs for Podiatry. However, both New York College and Temple takes the DAT.

I don't remember 100%, so don't quote me but I do believe they ask if you are applying or have applied to other health professional schools. You can, of course lie, which I am not condoning, but just pointing out the obvious.

Also, that's exactly the concern we, and the ADCOMs, have. If you can't maintain a 3.7 in a Masters program, who is to say you can even stay in dental school if you eventually get in? As someone has mentioned, getting into dental school is not the end... at all. It's just the beginning. And I agree it's easier said than done, but that is what school is. Are you expecting DS to be a walk in the park?

Also, taking courses at a CC will not only not help you, it will actually hurt you. Think about it... Low GPA in undergraduate, then attempt a Masters that you could not complete and received a low GPA for, then finally taking classes at a community college.

Three things here that you should really think over yourself.
1) If you really don't think you can get a 3.7 in a Masters, then you should reconsider dentistry. Numbers vary, but DS curriculum is equivalent to about 35 undergraduate credits... that means you are taking double the classes compared to college! If you can't succeed in a Masters, you probably won't in DS.
2) As I mentioned before, the amount of money you will spend to do the Masters is nothing compared to what DS is going to actually cost you. It's a penny in the ocean. And, if you think about it, it is the best bang for your buck. Masters will help you... Classes at a CC will neither hurt or help you, best case scenario. Of course, minimizing loans is best, but if you can't get yourself to put in the money to do a Masters to really boost that GPA/application and give yourself a chance, then you should reconsider whether or not you really want to be a dentist.
3) And lastly, which is related to 2, if you can't dedicate yourself in becoming a dentist/get into dental school (whether it be financially, mentally or both), then as others have mentioned, stop now for your own sake. Do not dig yourself into a deeper hole, and accrue more loans, just in the end figure out that you can't or don't want to be a dentist anymore.
 
Who's the say I'll get a 3.7+? I obviously tried that this past year and it's easier said than done. Also, you didn't answer my question about taking the MCAT.

Moreover, money could be mitigated if I took these classes at a CC or something.

Dude, you sound like a kid that doesn't want to listen to his/her parents. Everyone told you not to take CC after Masters and you are still bragging about taking CC courses as an option.
And obviously it's easier said than done to get 3.7+ but are you that not confident in your capabilities? if you get in into D-school, you think you will pass all classes and not repeat a year? That could probably cost you more$$ than doing another 1 year Masters.
Are you going to have the same attitude when you fail a class and the professor or an advisor tries to help you and you are going to be stucked up and not listen to their advice?
 
and the sysiphean saga still stays the course
 
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