I THOUGHT my GPA was fine and then there's the AMCAS calculation

[Blondnuttyboy]

So I am very freaked out. I am graduating in a week and will be applying this summer....

I have a 3.65, which I thought was solid. Nonetheless, I learned that retaking classes doesn't remove them from calculation for AMCAS. That drops my gpa to 3.49! Not to mention that I'm going to get a 3.4 this semester. (Senior-itis).

I'm honestly flipping out. 3.49!!! Do you guys reccomend I post-bacc? grad school classes?

My only + is that my low GPA is b/c of my 1st two years and my junior/senior year have both been 3.7+ - so I have a trend. But honestly I'm so freaked out. I do not want DO or carribean...help.

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[Old ortho]

Your GPA is a little low. What is your MCAT? A high MCAT > 33 will help.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

MCAT?

what state you from?

are your ECs decent?

no one can answer your question without knowing the context of the GPA...but I think the senioritis is more significant than the AMCAS correction to your GPA.

Its hard to explain off senioritis.

 

[Law2Doc]

MCAT?

what state you from?

are your ECs decent?

no one can answer your question without knowing the context of the GPA...but I think the senioritis is more significant than the AMCAS correction to your GPA.

Its hard to explain off senioritis.

Agreed. A 3.4 and a decent MCAT, ECs, LORs etc is adequate for many med schools. You'd only do postbac work with that GPA if you had dreams of certain top ranked schools and had to spend another year on ECs anyhow.

Also agree with the senioritis point -- med schools expect you to show up raring to go, not burnt out from college.

 

[jochi1543]

Wow, that's like me, except for I have a 3.51 without retaking courses. I also have 3.7-3.8 in my last 2 years. What's your BCPM?

 

[sexyman]

Yea the AMCAS gpa thing really sucks...I thought I had a 3.65, but no, I have a 3.56.... ugh

 

[Crookshanks]

Curious...does this apply to the science GPA? General GPA? Both?

Thanks.

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

yeaah my science gpa is probably the same if not a tad lower.

im a CA resident and my frist two MCATs were 27 (7,10,10) and my second was 25 (9,5,11) -- i got really sick and threw up during verbal.

I'm taking the 3rd attempt May 31st and I hit 31 on aamc cbt 7.

I really want to go to an MD school...my EC's are pretty solid. Loads of international public health work, physio research 3 years, class honoraries, martial arts instructor, hospital internship.

And i'm planning on being a scribe in an ER this fall..

Someone please hit me with some advice. I'm flipping my lid here.

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

if i took say 9-12 units of grad school classes (all science) in fall and nailed them, would that help? Mathematically, it wouldn't raise my science gpa much but wouldnt it show some crazy improvement?


I'm getting scared because almost every decent school has an average gpa of 3.6+...

VERY few have average lower.

 

[silas2642]

yeaah my science gpa is probably the same if not a tad lower.

im a CA resident and my frist two MCATs were 27 (7,10,10) and my second was 25 (9,5,11) -- i got really sick and threw up during verbal.

I'm taking the 3rd attempt May 31st and I hit 31 on aamc cbt 7.

I really want to go to an MD school...my EC's are pretty solid. Loads of international public health work, physio research 3 years, class honoraries, martial arts instructor, hospital internship.

And i'm planning on being a scribe in an ER this fall..

Someone please hit me with some advice. I'm flipping my lid here.

MD school might be a little out of your reach because your gpa isn't great neither are your first two mcats. The fact that you made a mediocre score on the first mcat probably didn't help you or hurt you, but that second mcat certainly did. You need to really nail this third one, and even then, I'm not sure how adcoms are going to receive the fact that you have taken this exam three times. As you know, your gpa is a little on the low side and thus does not help compensate for that low mcat score.

Make sure you apply really early and really broadly. I don't think that allopathic is completley out of the question, but I would definitely start considering other options like osteopathic medicine. I wouldn't think about offshore schools unless you're really obsessed with having MD follow your name.

 

[Fermata]

Unless you plan on studying embryology on a sunny beach I suggest you retake the MCAT.

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

I am not a URM (check out my nickname) and I really dont want to go into osteopathy. Not that I have anything against DO's but I personally want an MD.


I agree that it looks like allopathic schools are out of my reach right now but I am willing to do whatever it takes.

What do you think my third MCAT would have to be to get me competitive?

 

[Fermata]

I am not a URM (check out my nickname) and I really dont want to go into osteopathy. Not that I have anything against DO's but I personally want an MD.


I agree that it looks like allopathic schools are out of my reach right now but I am willing to do whatever it takes.

What do you think my third MCAT would have to be to get me competitive?

If you want to stay in California it's gonna have to be really high.

Elsewhere, probably 30+.

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

I honestly think I'm capable (now - not then) of pulling 32-34. I just badly need to do something because my numbers suck and won't fly with any of the schools I want to go to.

GW, OHSU, USC, Madison, Rush, BU, CO state, UofA (my step dad's a resident)

 

[Fermata]

I honestly think I'm capable (now - not then) of pulling 32-34. I just badly need to do something because my numbers suck and won't fly with any of the schools I want to go to.

GW, OHSU, USC, Madison, Rush, BU, CO state, UofA (my step dad's a resident)

I'm not gonna blow smoke up your rear end about your chances but the truth is that if you raise your MCAT and apply broadly you never know where you might get in.

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

I'm also applying to MD/MPH programs - might that help?

Thank you guys so much for all the input. I really appreciate it.

 

[spanamit]

OHSU has high preference for Oregon residents. Non-residents with only high GPAs and MCATs are encouraged. I called and asked.

Madison, again the residency problem.

UofA is a good school and residency works in your favor. That is a good shot.

You should consider applying broadly, maybe add in 5 or so private schools in the midwest or the northeast. State schools are a long shot because of stringent residency requirements.

With good mcat and LOR's you will get in somewhere.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Alright, I'm gonna go with brutal honesty.

That GPA is going to make it an uphill battle the whole way. And now you can't even claim "upward trend" because you got a 3.4 this semester meaning you didn't get a 3.7 your whole senior year. There is no upward trend. How bad were the "forgiven' grades in your first two years and how good were they when you retook? What kind of classes did you take your junior and senior year? Upper division science which may prove you can handle the courseload?

Those MCATs are not good at all, and most schools aren't just going to look at your last one and ignore the first two. So it will look like 27, 25, 32. Still not great.

And no, MD/PhD isn't going to help, those are MUCH MORE competitive than normal MD programs and you would have had to have had extensive research experience in undergrad which I haven't seen you mention.

At this point its really your choice. If money is no object then try to apply this year and if you don't get in then do a good post-bac next year. If money is an issue then I would jump straight into the post-bac. Grad classes and post-bac classes aren't going to help your undergraduate GPA at all by the way - you have what you have. They enter a separate calculation. Also, what makes you think you can do well in a grad class or post-bac class when you're already burned out this year?

 

[silas2642]

I honestly think I'm capable (now - not then) of pulling 32-34. I just badly need to do something because my numbers suck and won't fly with any of the schools I want to go to.

GW, OHSU, USC, Madison, Rush, BU, CO state, UofA (my step dad's a resident)

Yeah, I'd say that right now all of those schools are really a long shot. I don't know how to tell you this, but right now you're not really in a position to be choosing schools, particularly US allopathic ones. You're just not that competitive right now, and unless you really nail that next mcat and have everything, and I mean everything in place for the next application cycle, I would be willing to bet that you're going to be empty handed when classes start mid August of next year. You should be looking into schools like Wayne, Drexel, Temple, NYMC, Albany, etc., not mid-tier schools that are highly competitive like Rush, USC, BU, GW, and the others that you mentioned. Those schools are hard enough to get into for people with average stats.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to give you a reality check on where you really stand going into this application cycle. Apply to the schools you mentioned above for sure because you never know what may happen, but make sure you hit the lower tiered schools hard too. Also re-consider the DO route because they are no different than allopaths and you're doing yourself a great disservice to think that they are "lesser" than MDs. In my humble opinion, if you get to the point where you have to start thinking about offshore schools, you'd be a fool to consider Caribbean over DO schools. But that's just me. Now get back to studying for that mcat.

 

[alwaysaangel]

I honestly think I'm capable (now - not then) of pulling 32-34. I just badly need to do something because my numbers suck and won't fly with any of the schools I want to go to.

GW, OHSU, USC, Madison, Rush, BU, CO state, UofA (my step dad's a resident)

Oh also if UofA is University of Arizona (I dunno maybe you meant alabama or something) then that is completely out even if your step dad is a resident. They absolutely do not look at non-resident applications (at all - they're not just harder on OOSers - they WILL NOT ACCEPT AN APPLICATION) and their rules for residency are very strict so unless you personally have lived there for the past year, cross that one off the list.

 

[Law2Doc]

Grad classes and post-bac classes aren't going to help your undergraduate GPA at all by the way - you have what you have. They enter a separate calculation.

Actually, undergraduate level postbac gets combined with ug grades into a total undergraduate level calculation column which is reportedly the one that med schools use, for screening, etc. So yes an undergrad level postbac can bring up your ug level GPA. This is why so many folks who already have the sciences take postbac courses. (and why an SMP, which is graduate level, shouldn't really be called a postbac).

I'm not sure you do a postbac to bring up a 3.4 though. The point of rehabilitation is to fix what is bad. The MCAT is really what is bad here. If you need to prove abilities in science more than up a GPA you probably are better off in a science grad program.

 

[Repo Man]

Ooh boy, threw up during Verbal? It would have been wise to cancel your score, my friend.

If your next MCAT pulls through OK, then you might still have a fighting chance of getting into allopathic schools. You should start thinking of an excuse for your senioritis now because interviewers will very likely ask you to explain that drop in the GPA trend. If allopathic schools don't work out, there's nothing wrong with staying in the states and getting a DO or going to either of the accredited Caribbean schools. I never understood the hate for that; if we want to become physicians so badly, why does the path matter? Your patients aren't going to know or judge you based on where you went to school, and that's really the only thing that should matter.

 

[Law2Doc]

or going to either of the accredited Caribbean schools. I never understood the hate for that; if we want to become physicians so badly, why does the path matter? Your patients aren't going to know or judge you based on where you went to school, and that's really the only thing that should matter.

It's not an issue of hate, it's an objectively harder road with fewer opportunities. And accredited by whom? Only the PR schools are accredited by LCME I think.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Actually, undergraduate level postbac gets combined with ug grades into a total undergraduate level calculation column which is reportedly the one that med schools use, for screening, etc. So yes an undergrad level postbac can bring up your ug level GPA. This is why so many folks who already have the sciences take postbac courses. (and why an SMP, which is graduate level, shouldn't really be called a postbac).

I was under the impression it was quite difficult to get into an ug level postbac when you've already taken the science courses. How does that help at all?? You're just repeating classes you've already taken - heck, you shouldn't even be able to get credit for that.

I was told by an advisor that ug post-bacs are for people who didn't do premed in undergrad and changed their minds later and need to go back and do the prereqs. And if you already took the prereqs you need to be looking into doing SMP, both because you are unlikely to get into a normal ug post-bac and because med schools won't be too impressed by you retaking classes you already took.

 

[45408]

Also agree with the senioritis point -- med schools expect you to show up raring to go, not burnt out from college.

That's why you make sure you get accepted and THEN get senioritis.

 

[45408]

im a CA resident and my frist two MCATs were 27 (7,10,10) and my second was 25 (9,5,11) -- i got really sick and threw up during verbal.

Apply to the handful of med schools that take your highest score from each section, so that way you'd have a 9, 10, 11 for a 30. And to be honest, you don't have a chance at UWisc if you're not a resident.

 

[jochi1543]

I was under the impression it was quite difficult to get into an ug level postbac when you've already taken the science courses. How does that help at all?? You're just repeating classes you've already taken - heck, you shouldn't even be able to get credit for that.

I was told by an advisor that ug post-bacs are for people who didn't do premed in undergrad and changed their minds later and need to go back and do the prereqs. And if you already took the prereqs you need to be looking into doing SMP, both because you are unlikely to get into a normal ug post-bac and because med schools won't be too impressed by you retaking classes you already took.

Well, you don't really need to *get into* a postbac. You could simply go and do a year of undergrad classes at your local university. No need to register in a specific program - just apply as an open studies/unclassified/non-degree student. That's what I did for this upcoming school year. The only issue is that SOME classes fill up really fast and it may not be possible to register as an unclassified student. However, this is more of an issue with intro classes. By the time you get to the likes of 400-level biochem, there are usually seats left in the class. An alternative to this route is to apply for another degree. Technically, you could even finish it if you wanted to (or didn't get in during your first post-bac year, which is perfectly possible) - most universities' residency requirement for transfers is 2 years' worth of courses.

 

[NN11]

I'll echo the sentiments of previous posters here.

Your GPA is not as bad as your MCAT. With a 32-34 MCAT score, you can possibly redeem yourself and get into a decent allopathic schools in the U.S.

My recommendation would be not to take the MCAT unless you're fully ready.

Med schools see every MCAT score, there are only so many low scores that can be attributed to being sick or under-prepared. Next time you throw up during a section, get up and void the test.

You need to consistently score 30+ on practice exams to be able to pull a 30+ on the real thing. And yes, we all hear of miracles occuring, i.e. someone with a 28 on practice tests that later scored a 35 on the real thing.

However, be honest with yourself, those folks are the exception and not the rule. Don't leave anything to chance.

Lastly remember, "Chance favors the prepared mind."

.

...

 

[Law2Doc]

I was under the impression it was quite difficult to get into an ug level postbac when you've already taken the science courses. How does that help at all?? You're just repeating classes you've already taken - heck, you shouldn't even be able to get credit for that.

I was told by an advisor that ug post-bacs are for people who didn't do premed in undergrad and changed their minds later and need to go back and do the prereqs. And if you already took the prereqs you need to be looking into doing SMP, both because you are unlikely to get into a normal ug post-bac and because med schools won't be too impressed by you retaking classes you already took.

See jochi's post. There is no one route that works for everyone, and a variety of ways people have been successful in rehabilitation. You don't need to get into a postbac program to do postbac courses, you can take undergrad level courses a la carte and they are deemed postbac. Most folks who already have the prereqs would take upper level stuff. SMP is different -- it won't help you raise the GPA, but will give you a track record of science courses you can point to if your issue is that you are unproven in the sciences. Some people even end up having to do both -- taking some postbac classes to raise their GPA and then doing SMP (since a lot of SMP programs have threshold GPAs of their own).

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

I appreciate the advice everyone and I will nail that 3rd MCAT...

But about the gpa, my chances, blah blah -

I'm only 22. Aren't average ages for most schools somewhere around 25-26? Doesn't that give me a little time to get myself accepted into a solid US MD school?

 

[Law2Doc]

I appreciate the advice everyone and I will nail that 3rd MCAT...

But about the gpa, my chances, blah blah -

I'm only 22. Aren't average ages for most schools somewhere around 25-26? Doesn't that give me a little time to get myself accepted into a solid US MD school?

Yep - You have decades of time. Average age in US allo is about 24. The oldest current med student is in their 50s, I believe. Time is not really the issue. Study for that MCAT, though because the more times you take it, the worse it looks.

 

[HappyG0Lucky]

Where are you guys seeing the GPA calculation? I have finished entering courses on AMCAS but it hasn't calculated anything yet. Do you have to submit to see it?

 

[jochi1543]

Of course. But I'm going to assume that you are like the majority of us and would rather not waste time doing something you don't particularly like and having to apply over and over (and fork over major cash).

If you decide to apply this summer, I would suggest you start prepping for the "what if" scenario right away. For example, I'm also applying this summer, but I've already applied for a year of undergrad so that if I don't get in, next year my application is a lot more competitive due to higher GPA and BCPM. You could do the same - secure yourself another year of undergrad.

Then this fall if the picture still looks bleak, you can apply to Master's for a 2008 start so that you are continuously improving your application.

There's nothing wrong with not rushing into the process, you just have to spend that time wisely.

 

[jochi1543]

Where are you guys seeing the GPA calculation? I have finished entering courses on AMCAS but it hasn't calculated anything yet. Do you have to submit to see it?

You just figure it out yourself...I mean, you have the GPA from your school, and then you go to AMCAS, read their rules, and then adjust your GPA accordingly. I.e. your college may count AP credits into the GPA, but AMCAS won't, so then the 2 GPAs would be different.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Where are you guys seeing the GPA calculation? I have finished entering courses on AMCAS but it hasn't calculated anything yet. Do you have to submit to see it?

You won't see the calculated GPA until your application is submitted, all your transcripts are received, they have verified your transcripts against your entries, made any corrections, and sent your primary application to the medical schools you chose.

If you wish to calculate your AMCAS GPAs, use this spreadsheet I made...

 

[deleted128318]

Oh, and submit your transcript to AMCAS before it has the semester of 3.4 senioritis on it. Leave that semester "in progress" on your application. You will ultimately have to update them on that (i.e. before matriculation) but it likely won't hurt you at that point.

Why didn't you cancel your scores if you threw up during verbal?

 

[pennybridge]

Unless you plan on studying embryology on a sunny beach I suggest you retake the MCAT.

alternatively, if you plan on studying embryology on a sunny beach in the continental US then I also suggest you do well on your next MCAT


ucsd, ucla, usc, florida schools.... am I leaving anyone out?

 

[alwaysaangel]

alternatively, if you plan on studying embryology on a sunny beach in the continental US then I also suggest you do well on your next MCAT


ucsd, ucla, usc, florida schools.... am I leaving anyone out?

UC Irvine is a 10 min drive to the beach.

 

[45408]

Oh, and submit your transcript to AMCAS before it has the semester of 3.4 senioritis on it. Leave that semester "in progress" on your application. You will ultimately have to update them on that (i.e. before matriculation) but it likely won't hurt you at that point.

Good point. If you're applying this year, I would definitely recommend sending your transcripts in NOW. And finding that you got a 3.4 your last semester when you send in a transcript upon matriculation will absolutely not hurt you.

 

[pennybridge]

UC Irvine is a 10 min drive to the beach.

we should start an "official" med schools close to the beach thread

UCSD 10 seconds
UCLA 10 min (no traffic)
UCI 10 min
USC 30 minutes (no traffic)

someone do florida and Hawaii!

 

[mikkey]

How do you know your AMCAS GPA? I can't seem to find it on my application...

 

[LifetimeDoc]

How do you know your AMCAS GPA? I can't seem to find it on my application...

AMCAS won't calculate the GPA until your application is complete, submitted, reviewed, and sent to the medical schools. Use my spreadsheet (posted above) to calculate it yourself.

 

[TheGreatHunt]

I've got an A- that will insignificantly lower my GPA, i wonder if they'll calculate that into it or not...

 

[Fermata]

I've got an A- that will insignificantly lower my GPA, i wonder if they'll calculate that into it or not...

Weak attempt.

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

Submitting my transcript before this crappy semester seems like a good idea BUT i'm taking my third MCAT on may 31st, sooo wouldnt it be a bad idea to submit before the new score release at end of june?

 

[Law2Doc]

Submitting my transcript before this crappy semester seems like a good idea BUT i'm taking my third MCAT on may 31st, sooo wouldnt it be a bad idea to submit before the new score release at end of june?

Yes. You are stuck. The hit to the GPA is insignificant compared to the previous low MCAT in terms of risk of getting screened out before you get a shot.

 

[Ephesus]

I thought LizzM said that med schools don't see your semester grades...

 

[cleothecat]

Your numbers are fine for DO.

DO is an acceptable route to practice medicine. The only issue is one of licensure which applies to practicing outside of the US.

If you do well in DO school and USMLE's, you could get into specialty residency programs (allopathic and DO). If can not do well in DO, you woun't be so competitive in allopathic programs either.