I want to be a neurologist and a hospital administrator. What path to take?

[shindotp]

MD/MBA? MD/MHA? MD/MPH? Just plain MD?

Which is the most practical way (meaning which would train me best) to get the administrator positions? I want to practice medicine as well as administrate..

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[mezmerized7]

I think you definitely have to do something with the MD, so take plain MD off the list. An MPH would work but I think the MBA or MHA would be better. I am trying not to be biased since I am doing an MPH But the MPH is more for doing public health research. That is not to say, I would not be qualified for a hospital administrative position. But at the same time, I think you would get more administrative skills with the MBA or MHA.

My $0.02.

 

[bipolardoc]

If you really want to be just a hospital administrator, go straight MHA/MBA combo 2 year programs at most universities. You will save yourself 8 years of hell of med school and residency, about 200K in tuition, 400K+ in lost potential income, and in 8 years you will have experience to be a hospital CEO by then, lol.

 

[mbe36]

Have you shadowed a neurologist/Hospital Admin?

-This would be the best way to find a path.

-Plus, I do not know how you know you want to do this without actually putting yourself in that person's shoes.

 

[Terpskins99]

MD/MBA? MD/MHA? MD/MPH? Just plain MD?

Which is the most practical way (meaning which would train me best) to get the administrator positions? I want to practice medicine as well as administrate..

From what I understand, obtaining an administrative position at a hospital isn't difficult since the majority of physicians I have come across hate doing it. Most would rather be left alone so they can devote all their time to medicine.

Overall, I think an MD/MBA is the most practical though certainly not necessary.

 

[Law2Doc]

MD/MBA? MD/MHA? MD/MPH? Just plain MD?

Which is the most practical way (meaning which would train me best) to get the administrator positions? I want to practice medicine as well as administrate..

At the premed stage, you probably lack the exposure to want either. And you can always go back for an MBA if you decide you need it. I'd concentrate on getting into med school. Then use med school to figure out what specialty you want to go into. It may well not be neurology -- the vast majority of folks change their mind at least once in med school. Once you are a physician, if you decide to "administrate" then you can decide if you need another degree. But most people only do this if they decide they don't want to practice medicine, not to try and combine the two.

 

[202781]

MD/MBA? MD/MHA? MD/MPH? Just plain MD?

Which is the most practical way (meaning which would train me best) to get the administrator positions? I want to practice medicine as well as administrate..

this is insane! it is EXACTLY what i want to do!!!! neurology/administration

i am just getting my MD right now because anything after the MD will be cake in comparison

 

[Terpskins99]

At the premed stage, you probably lack the exposure to want either. And you can always go back for an MBA if you decide you need it. I'd concentrate on getting into med school. Then use med school to figure out what specialty you want to go into. It may well not be neurology -- the vast majority of folks change their mind at least once in med school. Once you are a physician, if you decide to "administrate" then you can decide if you need another degree. But most people only do this if they decide they don't want to practice medicine, not to try and combine the two.

And what in the world is wrong with wanting neurology, Mr. assistant moderator?

 

[sunny1]

MD/MBA? MD/MHA? MD/MPH? Just plain MD?

Which is the most practical way (meaning which would train me best) to get the administrator positions? I want to practice medicine as well as administrate..

Maybe you'd rather be chair of the department you mean? Typically administrator and physician are two completely separate roles within the hospital system. Administrators work closely with the physician leadership though (chairs, heads of divisions, etc.). For administrator, usually the degrees are MBA or MHA. For chair of a department, all you typically need is MD.

 

[LizzyM]

I've not seen a hospital administrator/physician but I have seen a physician who serves as CEO of a multi-specialty group practice (with a couple hundred physicians and at least 1,000 employees at mutliple sites). MD with an executive MBA years later.

There are MHA, MBA and MPH degrees with an emphasis on administration of businesses related to health care.

 

[Live4Life]

I've not seen a hospital administrator/physician but I have seen a physician who serves as CEO of a multi-specialty group practice (with a couple hundred physicians and at least 1,000 employees at mutliple sites). MD with an executive MBA years later.

There are MHA, MBA and MPH degrees with an emphasis on administration of businesses related to health care.

LizzyM, so the CEO/President of your school's hospital/health system isn't a MD? I would have thought that was pretty rare since the two very large academic health centers with which I am familiar are headed by an MD. What types (in terms of their background, educational experience, and work experience) of individuals serve as the hospital CEO at other institutions then?

 

[SDN2013]

I've not seen a hospital administrator/physician but I have seen a physician who serves as CEO of a multi-specialty group practice (with a couple hundred physicians and at least 1,000 employees at mutliple sites). MD with an executive MBA years later.

There are MHA, MBA and MPH degrees with an emphasis on administration of businesses related to health care.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/about/cortese-message.html

I suppose it's not a hospital, but a clinic, but Dr. Cortese is a CEO and a MD, and if I remember right, Phoenix. said he specializes in pulmonary.

 

[Law2Doc]

And what in the world is wrong with wanting neurology, Mr. assistant moderator?

Nothing -- you misunderstand my post. Most people in med school will change their minds at least once during med school. In any specialty. Wouldn't matter if the OP said surgery or IM or neuro or peds.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM, so the CEO/President of your school's hospital/health system isn't a MD? I would have thought that was pretty rare since the two very large academic health centers with which I am familiar are headed by an MD. What types (in terms of their background, educational experience, and work experience) of individuals serve as the hospital CEO at other institutions then?

Two that I know best:

1) MBA
2) MPH

 

[Law2Doc]

Two that I know best:

1) MBA
2) MPH

Yeah, I've met a few RN/MBAs high up in hospital administration too (did the RN thing first, and then went back to business school later. And at least one JD/MBA. Point is, you often don't degree yourself to prepare for this job, you get work experience to prepare yourself for this job (be it medicine, nursing, law, administration), and then you can always pick up an MBA (once you have experience) to seal the deal. MBA's aren't prerequisites to jobs the way an MD or JD is -- they are basically skill enhancers -- things that are most useful to get once you actually have job skills. Which is why most of the better MBA programs require prior work experience, and why most MBA students have their tuition paid for by their employers.
I wouldn't go into a joint degree with notions of doing two jobs (administrate and be a clinician) -- you focus on one, and if you still want the other, you make the move later, and degree up as necessary.

 

[LizzyM]

Yeah, I've met a few RN/MBAs high up in hospital administration too (did the RN thing first, and then went back to business school later. And at least one JD/MBA. Point is, you often don't degree yourself to prepare for this job, you get work experience to prepare yourself for this job (be it medicine, nursing, law, administration), and then you can always pick up an MBA (once you have experience) to seal the deal. MBA's aren't prerequisites to jobs the way an MD or JD is -- they are basically skill enhancers -- things that are most useful to get once you actually have job skills. Which is why most of the better MBA programs require prior work experience, and why most MBA students have their tuition paid for by their employers.
I wouldn't go into a joint degree with notions of doing two jobs (administrate and be a clinician) -- you focus on one, and if you still want the other, you make the move later, and degree up as necessary.

I agree. Undergrad education including accounting, personnel management and budgeting are often key. Many nurses get this experience (particularly managing employees and budgets) on the job in hospitals. Some business types go into health care administration at the ground level and then go on for the MBA or MPH in management.

 

[phospho]

MD/MBA? MD/MHA? MD/MPH? Just plain MD?

Which is the most practical way (meaning which would train me best) to get the administrator positions? I want to practice medicine as well as administrate..

you been watching House lately?

 

[BrakngLyv]

MD-UTMB
Neuro Residency-Little Rock
Fellowship-Mayo Clinic
Private Practice~8 yrs
MBA
Physician Group Administrator
VP Hospital

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

I'll have to chime in with older folks on the thread. I came from a hospital administration background (CPA - senior analyst in financial planning and decision support for a huge multi-hospital health system) also.

If you want to be a hospital administrator, go get an MPH or MHA and be prepared to start on the bottom rung. If you want to practice as a physician, then go get your MD. Training as a physician in no way prepares you for the business of hospital administration - it's a totally separate career path. Being an MD is a prerequisite to being a hospital's medical director, who is a member of the senior management team - but clinical knowledge at the depth of being a physician is neither necessary nor particularly desirable for hospital administration.

I can really get on my soapbox about this, since I studied hospital administration and finance for 20+ years as a CPA. Most of my salary came not from the fact that I was merely a CPA (in fact, I was an in-house consultant - I had quit making journal entries many years before) but from my years of experience in things like healthcare billing, reimbursement, Medicare regulations, and so on and so on.The business of running a large healthcare organization is a separate academic pursuit, believe me.

Some physicians do become presidents or chairmen of large healthcare organizations - but it was a career switch (like me, only I'm going the other direction which is a bit more unusual). To my mind, I agree with law2doc - an MBA in and of itself is not especially helpful - you don't learn how to run a business in graduate business school; you simply get the tools you need in order to learn more on-the-job. An MBA with no experience is really not worth as much as what you might think. Now, if you just want to be Chief of Section in Neurology at a large hospital, that's based on: a) years of experience practicing medicine, b) being good at practicing in your field, and c) being good with your fellow physicians, because Chief of Section is largely a human-relations job - namely, being able to herd physicians like cats - which ain't easy.

You certainly won't continue to practice medicine on the side as a senior hospital administrator - the executive suite of a large health system is not just a job, it's a lifestyle - after-hours commitments to charity events, things like that - it is in no way a part-time job.

My honest advice would be to clarify what you want your career path to be - then chose medicine, or chose healthcare administration.

 

[ANF1986]

I wouldn't say that you necessarily even need the MD to do this type of work....As a personal example, my mom, is an RN/BSN/MBA and a Regional Vice President of a publicly traded healthcare company...She also owns her own legal consultation firm, which does expert witnessing related to healthcare/malpractice.

To add on to what Non-TradTulsa has said...From conversations with her, you could have all of the degrees in the world from top schools, that does NOT mean you will be good at your job. My mom did not get where she is from going to a top school and attending the most prestigious MBA program. She got there from being exceptionally good at her job, improving efficiency at various contract sites for the company, and networking. So the moral of the story is that administration is like medicine, in the regard that not everyone is cut out for it, and not everyoen can be successful. There is often not job ads for "CEO" positions. You dont apply for them, you are selected, and those positions are often EARNED by people who show an ability to perform and make shi* happen, not by people who had 4.0s in their undergrad and MBA programs.