I want to be a pediatrician, should I go to a 6 year caribean med school right after high school?

[redence]

Alright so I’m a 17 year old depressed senior in high school, and I’m planning to go to college to do either premed or pre-physician assistant. I’m really interested in the health field and helping people. However, my parents (Indian parents :/) really push me to go to a 6 year foreign medical school program in the Caribbean straight out of high school. I got a 26 on the ACT, and have 3.5 GPA, while taking some AP and honors classes. According to my parents a 26 on the ACT means that I’m stupid and won’t get into a U.S medical school. Tbh I didn’t study for the ACT, and I don’t like taking these standardized tests. They believe that since I got a low score on the ACT, I will also get a low score on the MCAT. I know that U.S medical schools are competitive and hard, my parents tell me that foreign medical school is lightwork compared to U.S med school and it’s faster since it’s a 6 year program. However, they tell me that the only thing I need to really study hard for is the USMLE. According to them, if I get a good score on the USMLE I will get a residency. My parents have a strong feeling that I will get weeded our and end up wasting time and money if I do undergrad premed here in the U.S all because of my high school stats (ACT). I read about foreign medical schools and I found that it’s not the best place to go, I could already tell it’s a sketchy place. I would hate to go to a foreign med school, I’m kinda immature to go to a med school straight out of high school and I won’t find any friends because they’re all foreign and most of them don’t speak English. Another reason why I don’t want to go is because I haven’t fully made up my mind if I want to be a doctor or a PA. I’m leaning towards the PA side because my parents scaring me into pushing me to go to foreign med school. The funny thing is that, my dad went to foreign med school in India and he ended up getting a residency here in the U.S but he lost it, and till this day he is still looking for a residency. My mom planning to send me to same foreign med school in Dominican Republic that she went to, she says that foreign med School is easy getting the grades, but when she took the USMLE she didn’t get a good score and she didn’t get a residency. Right now she’s a nurse. My question is if I somehow go to foreign med school out of high school, and do really good on the usmle, will I have a good chance of getting a residency?

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[redence]

Of course I have many family members who went to foreign medical school long time ago and are successful doctors here in the U.S. Is going to a foreign medical school a good idea in 2017?

 

[IslandStyle808]

Alright so I’m a 17 year old depressed senior in high school, and I’m planning to go to college to do either premed or pre-physician assistant. I’m really interested in the health field and helping people. However, my parents (Indian parents :/) really push me to go to a 6 year foreign medical school program in the Caribbean straight out of high school. I got a 26 on the ACT, and have 3.5 GPA, while taking some AP and honors classes. According to my parents a 26 on the ACT means that I’m stupid and won’t get into a U.S medical school. Tbh I didn’t study for the ACT, and I don’t like taking these standardized tests. They believe that since I got a low score on the ACT, I will also get a low score on the MCAT. I know that U.S medical schools are competitive and hard, my parents tell me that foreign medical school is lightwork compared to U.S med school and it’s faster since it’s a 6 year program. However, they tell me that the only thing I need to really study hard for is the USMLE. According to them, if I get a good score on the USMLE I will get a residency. My parents have a strong feeling that I will get weeded our and end up wasting time and money if I do undergrad premed here in the U.S all because of my high school stats (ACT). I read about foreign medical schools and I found that it’s not the best place to go, I could already tell it’s a sketchy place. I would hate to go to a foreign med school, I’m kinda immature to go to a med school straight out of high school and I won’t find any friends because they’re all foreign and most of them don’t speak English. Another reason why I don’t want to go is because I haven’t fully made up my mind if I want to be a doctor or a PA. I’m leaning towards the PA side because my parents scaring me into pushing me to go to foreign med school. The funny thing is that, my dad went to foreign med school in India and he ended up getting a residency here in the U.S but he lost it, and till this day he is still looking for a residency. My mom planning to send me to same foreign med school in Dominican Republic that she went to, she says that foreign med School is easy getting the grades, but when she took the USMLE she didn’t get a good score and she didn’t get a residency. Right now she’s a nurse. My question is if I somehow go to foreign med school out of high school, and do really good on the usmle, will I have a good chance of getting a residency?

Nope, don't go Foreign/Caribbean. I'm used to the whole Indian family member went to [insert foreign school here] and was successful. These are anecdotes and not true statistics.

There are no short cuts to medical schools in the US and you need to pass the USMLE. It doesn't matter whether you go Caribbean, US DO, or US MD. You need time to build maturity and your test taking skills. The ACT/SAT, MCAT, and USMLE are all different exams and one doesn't correlate well to the others. Just because you have not so goo ACT/SAT doesn't mean you will have a bad MCAT or bad USMLE. However, you need to build work ethic and consistence in grades this will build you up to take the MCAT and then the USMLE.

Main message here is that you have the best shot of matching into residency by staying in the US and going to a US medical school. If you want the real statistics then I have them attached below.

US MD student match rate on page 15 ( match rate US MD 94% in 2017, US IMG 54% in 2017)
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2017.pdf
** the US DO is at 81% but this is because they have two matches (this one and AOA) and so the numbers should be near 90%.

US IMG matching in all locations including India (183/481=38% match rate from India) and Caribbean (pg 21. and pg. 22)
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf

This data is directly from the National Resident Match Program, which is the official source for match data for all residencies. From the match percentages it would be wiser to go to undergrad and then US medical school and have a better chance at being a doctor.

 

[Lannister]

Just from reading your post, I can tell that you are not mature enough to start medical school right now. Like you said, you're immature (and that's not a bad thing, you're 17, you're supposed to be immature).
Don't listen to your parents. Don't go to the Caribbean. Don't become a doctor if YOU don't want to be a doctor. Go to a four-year university in the United States, you need time to mature and figure out if medicine is what you really want to do.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I'm glad you did your research and found out that this is a pretty bad idea. I agree with above posters that you shouldn't go to a foreign medical school and also that you shouldn't go to medical school unless you yourself want to go. This is going to mean having a possibly difficult conversation with your parents, but the alternative is you might end up also be still searching for a residency when your kid comes on SDN years down the road and asks the same question.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

if I do undergrad premed here in the U.S all because of my high school stats (ACT).

Means nothing. I got a 26, 90%< on the MCAT, and currently doing above average on all med school exams. On top of that the foreign school idea is just flat out terrible and it's a good thing you have caught onto that early. Ignore your parents (I know this is hard to do, but their advice just might ruin your career and put you in loads of debt).

 

[Redpancreas]

My first thought was this is a troll. There's no way...and then when I read that your parents had such foresight into the system I was even more skeptical because stereotypical Indian parents are more like --> beta, look at what this kid from our friend circle is doing, look at you, find some way to become them...most aren't willing to delve deep into the specifics. Well I guess reading further it sounds like your parents both didn't match and it sounds like they're looking out for your best interests.

Well regardless, while I can see where your parents are coming from, they're 100% wrong. I only scored a couple points higher on the ACT and did much better on the MCAT percentile-wise. Your path forward is simple.

Attend your respectable state university (not podunk U, but a research university that is in the top 100 of America's colleges or whatever). Major in biology, select courses based on RateMyProfessor or whatever, and maintain a high GPA. Focus on your prerequisites and don't BS your way through them because you'll need them for the MCAT. After your prerequisites, your only job for the rest of your undergrad career is to not screw up your GPA and to score above 80th percentile (or whatever 30+ is the equivalent is for the new MCAT). It's a lot tougher than doing well in undergrad pre-reqs especially if you're not the best standardized taker so you'll need to put a LOT of effort into it. Keep studying until you get 510 and then boom, welcome to the big ____ club. Here's where your parents are even more wrong. Even if you don't maintain a 3.7 GPA/510 MCAT there's DO schools (virtually the same thing as MD schools in every way that actually teach an additional class) willing to take you for lower stats. Getting into medical school is not a difficult process at all. It just take a bit of patience and willingness to jump through hoops. And if you don't want to settle for the DO (or low tier MD) after objective measures say that's where you should be, take gap years until you move up. Here's a YouTuber outlining it. She's done well in life and seems quite full of herself, but I think she means well and is trying to help others. Kaur Beauty

Now once you're in medical school, the whole game changes. It no longer matter how good at abstract skills/theories like optimizing areas of rectangles or organic synthesis. It's all about learning a complete new basic medical language which you will build on. I know someone who will likely match Dermatology (arguably the most competitive field out of medical school) this year and I had to explain to them how average arterial pressure was a time-weighted average. She's clueless but she put in the hours to do med school. Not to mention that once you're in a US MD or even DO school, your basically guaranteed to match something.

The argument I'm making is the path to getting into medical school is not as hard as your parents are making it.

 

[RunawayGrape]

Going to a Caribbean med school is one of the worst things you can do to yourself. Most Caribbean students don't match, and the ones that do usually match into uncompetitive specialties in undesirable locations (eg, rural internal medicine, family medicine, psychiatry, etc). There is almost no way you come out on the other end of this as a surgeon, cardiologist, dermatologist, etc. Also, you have to realize that when your dad went to med school in the Caribbean, it was a different ball game. Back then, the standards were way lower than they are now.

Go to a regular four-year college and figure out what you want to do with your life. Or don't, and go to a trade school, or get a job. In any case, don't let your parents dictate the rest of your life for you. And an ACT score of 26 doesn't mean you're stupid--it's just a number. If you want to become a doctor, go to college, work hard, and do it for yourself, not for your parents.

 

[failedatlife]

Alright so I’m a 17 year old depressed senior in high school....I got a 26 on the ACT...According to my parents a 26 on the ACT means that I’m stupid and won’t get into a U.S medical school

Don't EVER let anyone call you stupid because of your ACT, MCAT, Step 1, Step 2, whatever test you take in life. Really, listen to this. DON'T EVER let anyone call you stupid because of a test score. I too underperformed on the SAT (2200), and again on the MCAT (32 after several retakes), and guess what I got destroyed yet again on USMLE Step 1 (220s). I've been called a stupid and worthless POS my whole life because of my test scores. I've been told that I won't amount to anything in life.

And...Maybe I won't amount to anything in life. However, that doesn't give any dingbat the right to call me a ***** because of one test score. I have gifts that the socially awkward nerds who ace standardized step scores don't have. You do too.

No, I may not match a top 10 ENT program. No, you may not get into HMS for med school or plastic surgery someday, but that doesn't mean you are stupid. DON'T ever let anyone tell you that you are stupid again. I mean it.

 

[Stagg737]

So both your parents went to foreign medical schools, failed to match/maintain a U.S. residency position, think you aren't a strong candidate for U.S. schools, and are urging you to follow their same path? Do they want you to fail?

It really can't be said enough how bad of an idea this is. If your parents feel like throwing their money away I'd be happy to send you my info and they can just write those tuition checks out to me. Because in all seriousness that would be a better investment on their part than sending you to a Caribbean medical school straight out of HS.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I've been called a stupid and worthless POS my whole life because of my test scores. I've been told that I won't amount to anything in life.

You've been telling yourself that. You're going to be just fine, but only if you start equating self worth to being an ENT or a high Step score.

 

[Groy]

First off, I would say that an ACT score is in no way a predictor of 1.) your overall intelligence, 2.) your future potential to get into medical school, PA school, truck-driver school, etc.

It is, however, more than good enough to gain acceptance into many universities, where you can explore all kinds of disciplines. You'll find tons of fields where you can make a difference and help people, and you may find something you like even more than medicine. Better yet, you may fall in love with medicine on your own, regardless of what your parents want. Give yourself a chance to explore all life has to offer before committing to a field and a specific set of programs based on your parents recommendations.

 

[SnowyMoon]

When you go to college, move out.
You heard me, move away from your family.

I got a 19 on my ACT, nearly failed out of high school (graduated with a sub-2.0 gpa), and was called a failure and condemned to mediocrity my whole life by some close family (not my parents). I was (luckily) accepted to a college about 2000 miles away, and I haven't looked back since. My relationships with my parents and other close family have improved dramatically because they no longer "hover" over me, and I have matured a great deal as I move myself through the various stages of life.

What you have to understand about doing this is that you will be in charge of you, and there will be no more passing along the responsibility of getting you to class/getting homework done to your parents (but hopefully at 17 you've already taken these responsibilities). You'll have to dig and find the self-motivation that exists within humanity as a whole and yourself. Your parents may also not be happy with this, and you need to be prepared to deal with that can of worms with tact and diplomacy.

Also, to answer your question, don't do it. Don't even consider it an option. Go to a CC/uni/college and kick a*s in all your courses, and perhaps even consider majors and courses that aren't all science. You don't need to move 2k miles away, but I do think you should leave the potentially volatile situation. If you have other highly supportive family or close friends, consider moving in with them to cut rent costs, or just live on campus. You deserve better than being called stupid. Go show the world you're not, and soon enough you'll believe it too.

 

[Ismet]

Moving to hSDN

 

[vernhart]

Don't EVER let anyone call you stupid because of your ACT, MCAT, Step 1, Step 2, whatever test you take in life. Really, listen to this. DON'T EVER let anyone call you stupid because of a test score. I too underperformed on the SAT (2200), and again on the MCAT (32 after several retakes), and guess what I got destroyed yet again on USMLE Step 1 (220s). I've been called a stupid and worthless POS my whole life because of my test scores. I've been told that I won't amount to anything in life.

And...Maybe I won't amount to anything in life. However, that doesn't give any dingbat the right to call me a ***** because of one test score. I have gifts that the socially awkward nerds who ace standardized step scores don't have. You do too.

No, I may not match a top 10 ENT program. No, you may not get into HMS for med school or plastic surgery someday, but that doesn't mean you are stupid. DON'T ever let anyone tell you that you are stupid again. I mean it.

That is not a bad score at all on the SAT (it's actually pretty good and gave you a chance at the vast majority of schools), don't be so sdn. Idk who you are surrounded by, but they sound toxic and probably have a lot to do with your outlook on step 1. You are going to be a doctor (in the US, even), and that is a hell of a lot more than many people ever have a chance to be.

To OP. I scored ok, not great on the SAT and ACT (1920 and 26->28 on retake). I then scored a 517 on the mcat (96th percentile). You still have a lot of time to blossom in college and to be honest you will need it for the things you will inevitably face in medical school and beyond. If your problem was work ethic (as was mine) then conquer that now and don't wait till med school like I have-it's horrible.

If verbal was a weakness then you need to foster that starting immediately so that you can be ready for CARS (MCAT's verbal; most people can't do a whole lot to substantially improve their score in the few months you get to study for the MCAT); do this by challenging yourself in your coursework (take more than the required English and composition classes). Your chances of successfully becoming a US-trained doctor (matching at a US residency) are much greater by going to a US MD or DO school, (search the forums for more information but honestly don't worry about this too much right now, just trust me-someone would point it out if I were wrong-one of the best things about sdn).

 

[mvenus929]

I'll reiterate what others have said. Don't go to a 6 year med school, don't go to a foreign medical school. Go to a 4 year college and figure out what you want to do in life. If it's medicine, great--you'll be much better prepared at that point to enter medicine.

Also, pre-med either isn't a major, or is a major that you shouldn't be choosing. Figure out a discipline that you like. Especially if it's non-science. It'll make you more interesting.

 

[IMG69]

I'm studying medicine in China so a rather extreme example and hoping to sit USMLE etc etc.. so i'll try give you an accurate run down of what being an IMG really is like.

I'll make this super short, I would deem the education basically equivalent to the U.S e.g the actual content you learn (basing this off comparison to USMLE material) and we learn everything in full and our final year is a 12 month internship through every single speciality/rotation, there's research opportunities, plenty of forums to meet and network etc.

The social side is the real problem, the admin staff don't care about students really - still haven't received all my course books 7 weeks into the semester and they're often late to meetings etc... Also it's really boring and you can get isolated quite easily unless you can relate to others, e.g at my university religion is a massive deal, we have plenty of muslims and christians (heavy christians) and racial groups often tend to stick together. I'm an atheist/don't care about religion so i'm just courteous and try show some interest in there religious holidays etc. So you'll be dealing with this. That being said everybody is incredibly nice and helpful and there is no animosity between groups.

In short do whatever you can to get into a U.S med school.

A foreign medical school is basically a 'handicap' and you just have to prove yourself that much more if your looking at succeeding in the U.S however it's very doable, there's no distractions etc I mean your in a foreign country and in my case english isn't the native language so i'm severely limited in what I can do in my free time thus more time for study.

so basically go to the U.S by any means possible, if unsuccessful you can still basically be a robot (a lot of thai students are like this) wherever you get in and get high USMLE's and develop a competitive portfolio - however your competing against U.S grads of course so you have to go above and beyond.

 

[aformerstudent]

I'm actually in the process of writing an article for SDN on Caribbean medical schools. If it gets approved I promise it will be a worthwhile read since I was there recently. It's not a path that the average person should take. I'll break down most of what you need to know.

 

[redence]

?zasdsa

 

[mfrey28]

No, just no.

 

[AttemptingScholar]

So your GPA isn't very bad at all, but I understand how it's viewed so I won't focus on it here. Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that you are a (relatively, for med school purposes), a poor student.

If this is true, YOU WILL NOT DO WELL ON THE USMLE IN A CARIBBEAN SCHOOL. You just won't. I say that with as much certainty as I can say about anything for the future. The teachers won't be good, the study experience will be bad (like you said, third world country!), and the USMLE was designed for four years undergrad then med school, which you won't have done.

You probably won't convince them about non-MD paths right now, so keep an open mind about that, but it might not be the best thing to argue. But, if they're so convinced you're a subpar student (you aren't), how will sending you to a bad school make up for that? There's no logic there.

Tell them that the Caribbean system has changed in the past 20 years--it used to be good. It isn't anymore. Tell them DOs are merging with MDs, which means the different options for in-country stuff is growing (and thus, out-of-country stuff is shrinking). Tell them residency programs don't want students who jump the gun.

If you search around on SDN, some people have crunched the numbers. Carib schools will tell you that they have a high percentage match, but if you look you can see how many dropped out before trying and thus aren't in that stat.

If they don't listen, do your own thing. Plenty of people go to college without financial support, though it's difficult. Don't let your parents ruin your life.

 

[Dr.J.D]

From what I've heard, if you can get a good score on the USMLE from an international school ( which is significantly harder than from a US school) then you can get into med school in America.

 

[deleted480308]

Don’t listen to two people who didn’t make it when they tell you to do what they did.....if you can’t make it into a us med school, don’t go to med school

 

[Dr.J.D]

Before I just skimmed through your post , but I just realized now: What is wrong with your parents? No offense, but they both failed doing the exact same thing they want you to do! The pre reqs for med school and PA schools are basically the same, so just take the pre reqs, do ECs and just take the MCAT and GRE. If you do good on the MCAT and have a high GPA , then go for it!

 

[splik]

You need to get away from your parents as fast as possible and don't look back. You cannot live the life that your parents wish they had had (and it sounds like they are both failures and trying to live out their own wishes through you). You may decide that you don't even want a career in the health professions at all. Also there are other countries besides the caribbean (i.e. in Europe) where one can attend a real medical school and try to obtain your medical education if you so wish. If you do not have the aptitude to cope with a US medical school (and really you're still young and have lots of potential to grow and do well academically) you aren't going to pass the USMLEs. Based on what you've said, your parents are abusive. Run!

 

[Sharknad0]

Don't do it. You can still retake the ACT but that isn't even needed. Go to a US College, learn to study well and how to succeed in college. Then apply to US Med schools.

 

[AttemptingScholar]

Seriously, this is the logic of your parents:

(1) @redence is a poor student, so in order to make sure they are academically successful, the only good path is a poor education at an unaccredited school in a third world country with subpar teachers and subpar materials. Because they classes are so poor, redence will get excellent grades, which logically (????) translates into a high score on the same standardized tests that everyone, including people who have been in school for longer and at accredited, competitive schools, are also taking.

(2) A six year, unaccredited, incredibly specialized professional degree is a bigger waste of money than an accredited four year degree which could turn into many different jobs.

(3) As people who failed to successfully do this twenty years ago (when it was easier), they are obviously the best resource in how to do this. In order to succeed, you should do what caused them to fail.

Remember, med school serves to get you into a residency. It doesn't matter if you get into a med school if you can't turn it into a job (like so many Caribbean graduates).

And why your parents, who consider you a poor student, apparently think that the education you are receiving has nothing to do with standardized test scores is absolutely beyond me.

 

[redence]

I'm a 17 year old high school senior, and I have to apply to colleges soon. I'm interested in the health field, but I'm not 100% sure yet if I want to be either a doctor (Pediatrician) or a Physician Assistant (PA). I want to go to a U.S college and either complete pre-med or pre-pa, I might even do pre-health since I don't know which health field I want to go into. However, my Indian parents have a different outlook on my life. They're trying to force me to be a doctor, and this is not the main thing that's really pissing me off, but the fact that they say I'm too stupid to get into and complete a U.S med school. So they're planning to send me to a foreign U.S accredited 6 year med school either in Dominican Republic (Caribbean) or somewhere in Europe where they accept high school students. They believe that since I wasn't a competitive high school student, I have a 3.5 hs gpa, but a 26 on the ACT (tbh I didn't study for it). However, I also took honors and AP classes and did decent on them. I know for sure I wasn't the best hs student, but I also know I wasn't the worst. My Indian parents think that I will get easily weeded out of premed and not end up getting into a U.S med school due to my "low" hs grades, because it's too competitive for me, and the amount of Americans who drop out of U.S med school and fail in college. They think I'll end wasting my time and money on a U.S college doing premed. They gave me examples of Indian family friends who failed to get into U.S med schools. However, I also know family friends who also got into U.S med schools. They gave me examples of my parents friends who went to foreign med schools in India and Caribbean who are doctors. However, I know some foreigners who didn't get into a residency either. I've heard many bad things about foreign med schools, and I believe I'm too immature (17 yrs old) to start med school especially in a third world country. -.-

According to my parents, who both went to foreign med school, FOREIGN MED SCHOOL IS EASY, all I have to really study for is the USMLE, to get into a U.S residency. The funny thing is that both my parents ended up not passing the USMLE or not matching into a residency. My father, "smart" kid in India, got accepted into a good Indian med school, and came to the U.S and matched into a residency, but he fooled around/didn't study and lost his residency. Till this day, he is looking for a residency. My mom on the other hand, went to a foreign med school in Dominican Republic, she said the classes are easy, but ended up getting a low score on the USMLE, and not even getting a residency. She ended up being a Nurse Practitioner. What's even scarier is that she wants me to go to the same foreign med school in Dominican Republic that she went to because it's "easy" with minimal amount of studying, but the only thing I would really have to study hard for is the USMLE. Overall summary of what my parents think, they legit said this to me: Foreign med school is an easy way to get into the U.S system to be a doctor, it's short, cheap, and easier. In the U.S med schools it is too hard and people end up failing. As long as I study hard for the USMLE (which the foreign med school doesn't teach) on my own and get a good score on it, I will get into a residency.

I'm not even sure if I want to be a doctor or PA yet. I told my parents that I would rather be a PA (just not to go to a foreign med school), and they got mad and yelled at me, "all PA'S do is clean up **** and get paid low compared to a doctor". They called me dumb and immature when I said I would rather try to get into a U.S med school. They even threatened not to pay for my tuition if I go study in the U.S. When I told them about the negative reviews about foreign med schools and the low USMLE scores, and low residency match rates from the Internet, they told me: "those are just American's who never been to foreign med school, and don't know what they are talking about." I've been stressed and depressed about what I should do with my life now. They would always yell and argue with me everytime I say I wanted to apply to a U.S college. Should i go to a foreign u.s accredited med school or u.s college?

 

[frosted2]

For 17, you seem very mature. Props to you in that regard! I applaud you for being mature enough to realize all of this already (difficulty of coming to the US and getting a residency as an IMG/carib grad) and doing your research.

I do know that in the Asian culture, there is a large pressure from parents on their kids... I cannot attest to that personally. I wish you the best of luck in that regard, and I hope your parents are able to realize that you are smart enough to make your own (good!) decisions.

If I were you (which I think your heart already knows this is best) I would apply to a US undergrad and find yourself. Shadow, volunteer and spend time around both physicians and PAs and decide which lifestyle fits your future goals best.

You are a badass... keep up the great work

P.S. nobody cares about H.S. once you get into college.

 

[goatmed]

I'll let @gonnif take it away any moment now with "10 empirical reasons of why your parents are wrong," but by any means if what you want to be is not a doctor, don't let your parents force you into it. You'll be more miserable in the long run, your situation sounds tough and I get how parents' choice may make you feel powerless. Still, I am of the opinion you shouldn't let anyone bully you into that misery. For lack of better advice on how to approach them, I wish you luck!

 

[allantois]

So you parents went abroad, failed to complete residency, yet want you to go abroad?

Makes no sense

 

[redence]

gonnif

who's gonnif?

 

[DokterMom]

"So how did that work for YOU, Mom? Dad?"


Just because you under-performed in high school does not necessarily mean you will under-perform in college or in medical school. If you worked extremely hard in high school and could not do any better, that might mean you won't make the cut as a US pre-med, but guess what -- you'll still be more than good enough to go to a Caribbean medical school. (Assuming Mommy and Daddy still have the funds to send you or you can take out loans.)

You probably already know that the foreign medical schools don't prepare you especially well for the USMLE. What you may not know yet is that even if you KILL the USMLEs as a foreign medical grad, your odds of securing a US residency are still rather low and getting worse. Since your parents are not overly impressed with your abilities, what makes them think you will be able to do so much better than they did? That's not a logical thought pattern...

 

[redence]

"So how did that work for YOU, Mom? Dad?".


Just because you under-performed in high school does not necessarily mean you will under-perform in college or in medical school. If you worked extremely hard in high school and could not do any better, that might mean you won't make the cut as a US pre-med, but guess what -- you'll still be more than good enough to go to a Caribbean medical school. (Assuming Mommy and Daddy still have the funds to send you or you can take out loans.)

You probably already know that the foreign medical schools don't prepare you especially well for the USMLE. What you may not know yet is that even if you KILL the USMLEs as a foreign medical grad, your odds of securing a US residency are still rather low and getting worse. Since your parents are not overly impressed with your abilities, what makes them think you will be able to do so much better than they did? That's not a logical thought pattern...

Why are you still at a disadvantage even if you did well on the USMLE (lets say above 80%) and you are a foreign med student? And I didn't work extremely hard in high school, I did study most of the time for classes though, and took some tough classes. But I didn't really give it my 100%. For example, I would be good with getting 80's. Would stop studying if it gets late. Also I barely paid attention in class, and when I study at home I get easily distracted. I think I might have ADHD lmao

 

[goatmed]

who's gonnif?

He always has a ton of data on admissions

These figures include all IMGs, no matter the year/cycle of graduation. As comparison, less than 50% of previous US MD grads find placement in subsequent cycle, either via the Match or via SOAP. With nearly 100% of US MD seniors get placement, with less 50% of previous grads getting a spaot, and about 50% of US IMGs getting a spot, a guesstimate would be at best 25% of previous IMG grads would get a spot

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Why are you still at a disadvantage even if you did well on the USMLE (lets say above 80%) and you are a foreign med student? And I didn't work extremely hard in high school, I did study most of the time for classes though, and took some tough classes. But I didn't really give it my 100%. For example, I would be good with getting 80's. Would stop studying if it gets late. Also I barely paid attention in class, and when I study at home I get easily distracted. I think I might have ADHD lmao

Because the place where you went to medical school is of importance along with USMLE and grades to residency programs. It's not just USMLE, schools know that students don't typically go the Caribbean way because they can study in America. Your rotations may not be very impressive either, residency programs want to see you being an good student with great experiences in the field, which is structurally more difficult when you're in the Caribbean. There may be more problems with it than I can think of, but it definitely doesn't put you at level ground. Or forecast a stellar STEP performance.

 

[DokterMom]

Why are you still at a disadvantage even if you did well on the USMLE (lets say above 80%) and you are a foreign med student? And I didn't work extremely hard in high school, I did study most of the time for classes though, and took some tough classes. But I didn't really give it my 100%. For example, I would be good with getting 80's. Would stop studying if it gets late. Also I barely paid attention in class, and when I study at home I get easily distracted. I think I might have ADHD lmao

I know a student with a very similar profile - down to the ADHD even. Went back on ADHD meds when he started college and decided (for the first time) to really, really try. Ended up as the top-ranked Bio major at his undergrad and also #1 ranked student at his medical school. Looking at his high school performance, it's not what you would have predicted.

So why are foreign medical grads still at a disadvantage even if they do extremely well on USMLEs? Mainly because the foreign schools don't prepare them well -- they're "easy", remember? Also, well-informed students who do not have significant problems don't go to foreign medical schools if they were 'good enough' to be accepted by US medical schools. By significant problems, I mean institutional actions, criminal records, multitudes of failed classes. Impulsive, poorly-informed students don't make good doctors.

You don't sound like that kind of person. (Even if you do have ADHD). Spend some time searching here and you'll find lots of good information about why it's a very bad idea. Show that to your parents. They'll be hard-put to argue with it, especially since they've suffered from the FMG prejudice.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I want to go to a U.S college and either complete pre-med or pre-pa

You already stated what you want to do. Do it. I have some experience with pushy parents. If you get anything out of the responses on this thread, it should be that you cannot live your parents' life for them. They are trying to use you to fulfill their own broken dreams, which is unfair -- you have dreams of your own, and you need to follow them. If your parents' wishes coincide with yours, great. But if they do not (and provided your dreams aren't in the realm of "i want to be a crackhead"), then you must follow your own path.

 

[xuannguyen0722]

I’m also Asian too, but my parents wanted me to drop out from my foreign med school after my first year, immigrate to start everything again, and apply to U.S med school. I can say foreign med schools are usually easier than U.S med schools, but it sucks at the end. I haven’t started applying med schools in the U.S yet, but I can tell you that choosing foreign med school is not smart. You will lose your time other than learning. The hardest thing we work for, the most achievement we could get. If you think you can show that they’re wrong, studying by your best abilities to achieve what they think you can’t. Don’t always follow your Asian parents. Sometimes, they’re still not exactly right. Good luck!!!

 

[candbgirl]

Did t you post this whole thing a couple of weeks ago? Why are you reposting. I doubt your replies will change at all.

 

[Goro]

I'm a 17 year old high school senior, and I have to apply to colleges soon. I'm interested in the health field, but I'm not 100% sure yet if I want to be either a doctor (Pediatrician) or a Physician Assistant (PA). I want to go to a U.S college and either complete pre-med or pre-pa, I might even do pre-health since I don't know which health field I want to go into. However, my Indian parents have a different outlook on my life. They're trying to force me to be a doctor, and this is not the main thing that's really pissing me off, but the fact that they say I'm too stupid to get into and complete a U.S med school. So they're planning to send me to a foreign U.S accredited 6 year med school either in Dominican Republic (Caribbean) or somewhere in Europe where they accept high school students. They believe that since I wasn't a competitive high school student, I have a 3.5 hs gpa, but a 26 on the ACT (tbh I didn't study for it). However, I also took honors and AP classes and did decent on them. I know for sure I wasn't the best hs student, but I also know I wasn't the worst. My Indian parents think that I will get easily weeded out of premed and not end up getting into a U.S med school due to my "low" hs grades, because it's too competitive for me, and the amount of Americans who drop out of U.S med school and fail in college. They think I'll end wasting my time and money on a U.S college doing premed. They gave me examples of Indian family friends who failed to get into U.S med schools. However, I also know family friends who also got into U.S med schools. They gave me examples of my parents friends who went to foreign med schools in India and Caribbean who are doctors. However, I know some foreigners who didn't get into a residency either. I've heard many bad things about foreign med schools, and I believe I'm too immature (17 yrs old) to start med school especially in a third world country. -.-

According to my parents, who both went to foreign med school, FOREIGN MED SCHOOL IS EASY, all I have to really study for is the USMLE, to get into a U.S residency. The funny thing is that both my parents ended up not passing the USMLE or not matching into a residency. My father, "smart" kid in India, got accepted into a good Indian med school, and came to the U.S and matched into a residency, but he fooled around/didn't study and lost his residency. Till this day, he is looking for a residency. My mom on the other hand, went to a foreign med school in Dominican Republic, she said the classes are easy, but ended up getting a low score on the USMLE, and not even getting a residency. She ended up being a Nurse Practitioner. What's even scarier is that she wants me to go to the same foreign med school in Dominican Republic that she went to because it's "easy" with minimal amount of studying, but the only thing I would really have to study hard for is the USMLE. Overall summary of what my parents think, they legit said this to me: Foreign med school is an easy way to get into the U.S system to be a doctor, it's short, cheap, and easier. In the U.S med schools it is too hard and people end up failing. As long as I study hard for the USMLE (which the foreign med school doesn't teach) on my own and get a good score on it, I will get into a residency.

I'm not even sure if I want to be a doctor or PA yet. I told my parents that I would rather be a PA (just not to go to a foreign med school), and they got mad and yelled at me, "all PA'S do is clean up **** and get paid low compared to a doctor". They called me dumb and immature when I said I would rather try to get into a U.S med school. They even threatened not to pay for my tuition if I go study in the U.S. When I told them about the negative reviews about foreign med schools and the low USMLE scores, and low residency match rates from the Internet, they told me: "those are just American's who never been to foreign med school, and don't know what they are talking about." I've been stressed and depressed about what I should do with my life now. They would always yell and argue with me everytime I say I wanted to apply to a U.S college. Should i go to a foreign u.s accredited med school or u.s college?

Please get your parents accounts on SDN so we can gently explain how they are trying their very best to completely **** up your medical career out of their ignorance.

 

[gyngyn]

There are no US accredited foreign medical schools (6 year or otherwise).

 

[redence]

I'm a senior in hs right now, and I plan on being a Pediatrician. Will it be a disadvantage to go to a 6 year foreign med school? As long as a I get a good usmle score I will get a residency right? Or does my chances become lower due to the fact I'm an immigrant. Or should I just go to an Ameican University?

 

[LucidSplash]

I really want to get a stamp for these posts with a giant NO on it.

 

[redence]

As long as a I get a good usmle score I will get a residency right?
No.

Doesn't a 80-90% on the USMLE allow me to get into the least competitive residencies (such as primary care) as a foreign grad? Why doesn't admissions mainly look at USMLE and research? Do they look at what med school you went and your gpa?

 

[IlDestriero]

It’s a great idea, assuming you want to practice Medicine in that country.
If you want to come to the US, it’s a horrible idea.


--
Il Destriero

 

[AttemptingScholar]

Doesn't a 80-90% on the USMLE allow me to get into the least competitive residencies (such as primary care) as a foreign grad? Why doesn't admissions mainly look at USMLE and research? Do they look at what med school you went and your gpa?

While it is possible to match a good residency with a high USMLE score, it is rather naive to just assume you'll get one. Consider: you will be going up against people who took 2 more years of school and the MCAT, and they simply have more experience in school and standardized test taking. Caribbean schools have worse academic resources. If you need help, you won't be able to get it. Caribbean schools are in a third world country. It's tropical, but it isn't exactly a resort--you can't rely on things like electricity like you could in the USA.

Even if you are in the 80-90th percentile (which is hard to say, people in medical schools are smart. Being in the 90th percentile of your high school doesn't mean anything), there's no guarantee you'll get 80th-90th percentile on the test, which is the important thing. Going in in subpar conditions with less experience against some of the smartest people two years old than you? I'm not saying it can't be done, but you are really stacking the deck against yourself. It's a rash decision. Do you want your first professional decision to be a rash one?

 

[LucidSplash]

If 78% is the best-case scenario chance of matching to the least competitive specialty, that should TERRIFY you. After spending 6 years of your life and all the tuition, having a 1-in-4 chance of not being able to use your education to get an actual job is a very poor gamble. And that doesn’t even consider the licensing restrictions. Don’t hamstring yourself out of the gate. There are a ton of other threads like this where you will hear similar advice. And go check the IMG threads in the Med student and residency forums to see more disaster stories.

The answer is FULL STOP. DO NOT PROCEED.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Please search this question on SDN for more comprehensive answered because it is asked and responded to literally once a week

 

[mmmcdowe]

Keep in mind that not only will you be at a disadvantage to getting a residency spot, you will be at a significant disadvantage in regards to getting a GOOD residency spot. Not all pediatrics programs are equal and the top programs of many fields do not even consider FMGs, won't even offer them interviews.

 

[HomeSkool]

There are no free lunches, my friend. If the six-year Caribbean route yielded the same prospects as the traditional approach, don't you think more people would opt for it? Residency programs don't just care about your grades and LORs, but also where you earned your degree.

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