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i want to become a neurosurgeon and i want to know how do i prepare myself for this?

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fedor

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    MDGalina said:
    The degree i did was for three years and that was after i finished my grade 12.Now i want to apply for the medical school. But ultimately i want to become a neurosurgeon.

    Which country? You need to apply to medical school. After medical school you can enter a neurosurgery residency. However, it's risky because neurosurgery is competitive and unless your medical school grades and scores are excellent, it's unlikely you will be able to enter a program.

    Since you seem to be a foreigner, posting on the IMG forum may be helpful as your countrymen can give you some country specific advice.
     

    mpp

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      The recipe for any competitive residency program (neurosurgery or otherwise) is to go to a good medical school, do well, do well on your board exams, do some research and get some publications, and make connections with your department.There are no secrets.
       

      MDGalina

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        fedor said:
        Which country? You need to apply to medical school. After medical school you can enter a neurosurgery residency. However, it's risky because neurosurgery is competitive and unless your medical school grades and scores are excellent, it's unlikely you will be able to enter a program.

        Since you seem to be a foreigner, posting on the IMG forum may be helpful as your countrymen can give you some country specific advice.

        I am applying for medical schools in canada and i wish to study medicine in Ontario. Could you please suggest me which are the best medical schools in Ontario? I will not be applying as a foreigner but as a permanent resident.
        I don't have much of volunteer work to my credit but i am thinking of applying to medical school this year itself. Should i apply or i should wait for another year, do some voulunteering and then apply?
         

        MDGalina

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          mpp said:
          The recipe for any competitive residency program (neurosurgery or otherwise) is to go to a good medical school, do well, do well on your board exams, do some research and get some publications, and make connections with your department.There are no secrets.

          I have no research work to my credit so do i stand any chance of getting into a medical school?
           

          Blake

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            MDGalina said:
            I have no research work to my credit so do i stand any chance of getting into a medical school?
            1) MPP was talking about strategies to enter neurosurgery, not medical school.
            2) Research isn't necessary to get into canadian med schools.
            3) University of Toronto and Ottawa are excellent medical schools in Ontario. Browse their websites to learn more, and check out this site : http://p084.ezboard.com/bpremed101
             

            MDGalina

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              Blake said:
              1) MPP was talking about strategies to enter neurosurgery, not medical school.
              2) Research isn't necessary to get into canadian med schools.
              3) University of Toronto and Ottawa are excellent medical schools in Ontario. Browse their websites to learn more, and check out this site : http://p084.ezboard.com/bpremed101
              Which other medical schools in Ontario are good? i have heard that the medical school of McMaster University is the best. Is it true by any chance?
               

              MDGalina

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                fedor said:
                Which country? You need to apply to medical school. After medical school you can enter a neurosurgery residency. However, it's risky because neurosurgery is competitive and unless your medical school grades and scores are excellent, it's unlikely you will be able to enter a program.

                Since you seem to be a foreigner, posting on the IMG forum may be helpful as your countrymen can give you some country specific advice.
                i wish to know that is the medical school of McMaster University one of the best on Ontario?
                 

                fedor

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                  MDGalina said:
                  i wish to know that is the medical school of McMaster University one of the best on Ontario?

                  Galina,

                  Try asking this question in the Canadian IMG forum. Very few people in the NS forum know about specific schools in Canada. In general, we Americans think Canadians are one step removed from animals.

                  Try asking here:

                  http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=89
                   

                  Stealth Vector

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                    If one is a first year in a U.S. medical school, what are some steps we should be keeping in mind? Would it be a good idea to have a brief meeting with someone in the department (chair or someone else) or would we be wasting their time at this point? I just like to make sure that I am being well informed and being responsible about the process, but I don't know if I am asking to early. Just trying to make sure I walk in the right direction.



                    Thank you for any guidance any of you can offer. :)
                     

                    N-Surge

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                      I am also an M1 pursuing Neurosurgery. This is my strategy:

                      1. Pass my classes.
                      2. Score well on the USMLE Step 1 (>235).
                      3. Do a Neurosurgy rotation at my institution of current study.
                      4. Do away rotations in Neurosurgery at the institution(s) of my interest.

                      I already have some connections made at the insitutions I desire to do my reisdency at. Try to make some if you can. These came about through clinical volunteer work while I was finishing up my PhD and during my first year of postdoc research.

                      Other than this, I don't see what more we can do. Am I missing anything, MPP?
                       
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                      vtrain

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                        All the medical schools in Canada are excellent and the name alone will not hold you back. In general, from talking with my canadian med friends, more competitive programs tend to recruit in house, so your chances may be higher coming from a school that has a neurosurg program. UofT has one of the strongest neurosurgery training programs in the country, if not the world. The problem right now in Canada, especially for neurosurgery, is job availability. In recent years, several canadian neurosurg grads were unable to find work in Canada and were "forced" to find jobs in the states. It's a shame that all our tax dollars that went into training these much needed doctors, were lost to another country.
                         

                        Stealth Vector

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                          Stealth Vector said:
                          If one is a first year in a U.S. medical school, what are some steps we should be keeping in mind? Would it be a good idea to have a brief meeting with someone in the department (chair or someone else) or would we be wasting their time at this point? I just like to make sure that I am being well informed and being responsible about the process, but I don't know if I am asking to early. Just trying to make sure I walk in the right direction.



                          Thank you for any guidance any of you can offer. :)

                          Thanks N-Surge for sharing what you have.

                          I still have the question (for any residents or neurosurgeons, or anyone else)if now is a good time to approach someone in the department (chair or someone else) to get some advice or guidance, and ask about research oppertunities. Or would I be wasting "their" time at this point?

                          Thanks once again.
                           

                          N-Surge

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                            Stealth Vector said:
                            Thanks N-Surge for sharing what you have.

                            I still have the question (for any residents or neurosurgeons, or anyone else)if now is a good time to approach someone in the department (chair or someone else) to get some advice or guidance, and ask about research oppertunities. Or would I be wasting "their" time at this point?

                            Thanks once again.

                            I would also like to know the answer to Stealth Vector's question, considering the June-August months between M1 and M2 are pretty much our last free moment to get in such research experiences (during sane hours, that is).
                             

                            mpp

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                              Anytime is a fine time to contact the department to show your interest. I have yet to meet a neurosurgeon (or other doctors) that are not happy when a student shows interest in their field.

                              Just be sure that if you agree to do something, do it well, and do it on time. It is easy when sitting in someone's office to agree to a project and then realize later than you don't have enough time, or enough interest to complete it. Projects of any type are usually more complicated then they first appear and usually take more time then initially thought.
                               

                              stherling

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                                mpp said:
                                The recipe for any competitive residency program (neurosurgery or otherwise) is to go to a good medical school, do well, do well on your board exams, do some research and get some publications, and make connections with your department.There are no secrets.

                                Does it matter which medical school you go to as long as it's a 'good' medical school? Are there any US medical schools that produce higher numbers of students matching into neurosurgery?

                                Thanks :)
                                 

                                mpp

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                                  Some of the more 'presitigious' medical schools (Harvard, Columbia, Johns Hopkins) produce more neurosurgeons than others but it varies from year to year. Any medical school graduate can get into a neurosurgery program, but medical school reputation is sometimes a factor.

                                  I think if you have a strong interest in neurousurgery as a college student, you should try to go to a medical school with a neurosurgery residency program. In this way you can meet the residents and faculty to be sure the field is right for you. There should also be research opportunities available which is now an important (if not critical) part of an application to a neurosurgery program.
                                   

                                  ROBINHO

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                                    @MPP

                                    Statistically what is the probability of an IMG matching??? IF he scores good grades, got decent publications...does he stand a realistic chance against an average US graduate???
                                     

                                    mpp

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                                      In recent years 15 to 25% of IMGs that applied have matched as compared with 80 to 90% of U.S. allopathic senior medical students. For the IMG it is important to have good scores and evaluations. Clinical work in the U.S. might also be considered a requirement.
                                       

                                      Neurobreeze

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                                        In general, we Americans think Canadians are one step removed from animals

                                        Fedor, why such a hateful message? It's no shock Canadians are more respected around the world. I'd like to know what step that is? What differentiates us? I'm aware of all the differences between Canadians and Americans, rest assured, including higher IQ's and free health care. But if you could just explain why Canadians are one step removed from animals, i would greatly appreciate that.
                                        Oh, you don't believe Canadians live in igloo's, do you? Thats explains why you think we're like animals. The unfortunate reality, and Im glad to be the one to teach you, Fedor, is that we have 4 seasons, drive our cars to our full time jobs, pay our mortgage (since we all live in a house, probably much like yours) while we plan our dream vacations. Life isn't much different on the other side of the border.
                                        You're absolutely right, we are definitely one step north, removed by a thin border.
                                         

                                        Neurobreeze

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                                          In general, we Americans think Canadians are one step removed from animals

                                          Fedor, why such a hateful message? It's no shock Canadians are more respected around the world. I'd like to know what step that is? What differentiates us? I'm aware of all the differences between Canadians and Americans, rest assured, including higher IQ's and free health care. But if you could just explain why Canadians are one step removed from animals, i would greatly appreciate that.
                                          Oh, you don't believe Canadians live in igloo's, do you? Thats explains why you think we're like animals. The unfortunate reality, and Im glad to be the one to teach you, Fedor, is that we have 4 seasons, drive our cars to our full time jobs, pay our mortgage (since we all live in a house, probably much like yours) while we plan our dream vacations. Life isn't much different on the other side of the border.
                                          You're absolutely right, we are definitely one step north, removed by a thin border.
                                           
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                                          Vermian

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                                            In general, we Americans think Canadians are one step removed from animals

                                            Fedor, why such a hateful message? It's no shock Canadians are more respected around the world. I'd like to know what step that is? What differentiates us? I'm aware of all the differences between Canadians and Americans, rest assured, including higher IQ's and free health care. But if you could just explain why Canadians are one step removed from animals, i would greatly appreciate that.
                                            Oh, you don't believe Canadians live in igloo's, do you? Thats explains why you think we're like animals. The unfortunate reality, and Im glad to be the one to teach you, Fedor, is that we have 4 seasons, drive our cars to our full time jobs, pay our mortgage (since we all live in a house, probably much like yours) while we plan our dream vacations. Life isn't much different on the other side of the border.
                                            You're absolutely right, we are definitely one step north, removed by a thin border.

                                            I would disagree - Fedor probably lives in a house at the good graces of his family. He most likely does not have to pay anything, so he/she is not working under the philosophy of the real world. He/she is sitting in a comfortable surrounding provided by others, so it is easy to make fun from some perceived protected place. Residency should change that perspective.

                                            Anyway, the reason I wanted to add my two cents. I am currently a senior level neurosurgery resident and (although US born and raised) an IMG. I think a lot of people have correctly stated the obvious. It is important to go to a "well known" medical school, because some are known to be neurosurgery resident producers. Look at the past match lists to determine which ones most recently. Yes, good Step I scores are important. Yes, research is helpful. These are all no brainers for any residency position. Meeting your program director or chairman early is always good. Go to the conferences (if you have time), see if there is a project or paper you can work on and make sure you have time for the commitment. This will also allow you to see if you want to spend seven years around people like they are. Stereotypes are there for a reason with most medical fields. Although, I must admit, some of us are trying to break those stereotypes. Then there is the fact that most places it is seven years. Realize your friends graduate and be staff long before you. It can be frustrating knowing that you know more than some of them, but have to listen to them because they are staff. In the end, you should choose neurosurgery for the love of neurosurgery. You will not know if you have that love until you get exposed. I personally know a lot of residents that have left the field after a few years because it is so grueling. Me - I love it and cannot see myself doing anything else. Good luck to all of you.
                                             
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                                            Myempire1

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                                              Harvey Cushing: A life in surgery by Michael Bliss. I am a student who also was looking for "inspirational books." I enjoyed this biography. Fulton wrote one, but I found it too boring to get far into it.
                                               

                                              vasc2

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                                                In general, we Americans think Canadians are one step removed from animals.

                                                Perhaps Fedor was simply trying to be self-deprecating / facetious? This may not been the best joke ever told, but a joke nonetheless. :confused:

                                                For book recommendations, I found Katrina Firlik's "Another Day in the Frontal Lobe" entertaining and informative.
                                                 

                                                Dsurge

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                                                  I know that it is a little bit late to post know, (considering the date of the last post) but I really need serious advice. Currently, I am a grade 12 student in Canada, who is in love with the study of the brain. I only want to be a neurosurgeon, and I don't see myself doing anything else.
                                                  The kind of person I am:
                                                  -I am a very hard worker, and I don't give up
                                                  -I try to make everything I do perfect, as much as possible or exactly like what I imagined it to be, this costs me a lot more time than OTHERS...
                                                  -I am a slow learner... I don't really understand why, even if i spend twice as much time on something than others, for some reason it will be equivalent or below
                                                  1.If you guys have any strategy on how to increase my speed it will be very helpful.
                                                  2.I wanted to know, what courses do I need to take in university to get in to a medical school (I am aware that it differs by school). I want to learn about the Human Anatomy and I want to avoid plant's biology and all that stuff as much as possible and still hope to get inside Med school. When I researched online, I can't find programs in first year that focus only the human body, most of them are on the 3rd/4th year programs.

                                                  3. Would the program Neuroscience help me in Med School or in writing MCAT? Or is Neuroscience really a psychological based program?

                                                  4. I am hoping to get inside a well known Med school in Ontario. I read that Med school specialize in different things, and want to know which medical school specializes in Neurosurgery.

                                                  Please post a comment, I really need advices in following the right path.

                                                  Thank you very much for your time!
                                                   

                                                  JeffLebowski

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                                                    I know that it is a little bit late to post know, (considering the date of the last post) but I really need serious advice. Currently, I am a grade 12 student in Canada, who is in love with the study of the brain. I only want to be a neurosurgeon, and I don't see myself doing anything else.

                                                    I hate to sound condescending, but analyze whether this is well-founded or not - do you have substantive and intimate knowledge of what it means to be a neurosurgeon as a high school student? Not to say you can't, but it's probably healthier to see yourself as a something more general at first and then narrow it down further through exposure and experience.

                                                    The kind of person I am:
                                                    -I am a very hard worker, and I don't give up

                                                    Good. The vast majority of medical students are like this (regardless of field).

                                                    -I try to make everything I do perfect, as much as possible or exactly like what I imagined it to be, this costs me a lot more time than OTHERS...

                                                    Well, if we're talking about neurosurgeon qualities, perfectionism is not necessarily a benefit. As a resident, you'll have to be fast and efficient and churn things out without hemming and hawing over nitty gritty stuff too much. The challenge is producing quality results and being on top of everything even in spite of a tough workload and lack of time.

                                                    -I am a slow learner... I don't really understand why, even if i spend twice as much time on something than others, for some reason it will be equivalent or below

                                                    Well, if you're learning it better than others, you may not be a "slow learner" per se, you may just take plenty of time to master material, which is a strength. Atul Gawande refers to talent as the capacity to tolerate lots of practice. So if you get the job done within time constraints, you're doing fine. That said, if you're not, practice at more efficient learning. Everyone needs to work on something.

                                                    1.If you guys have any strategy on how to increase my speed it will be very helpful.

                                                    Depends on what you want to be faster in.

                                                    2.I wanted to know, what courses do I need to take in university to get in to a medical school (I am aware that it differs by school). I want to learn about the Human Anatomy and I want to avoid plant's biology and all that stuff as much as possible and still hope to get inside Med school. When I researched online, I can't find programs in first year that focus only the human body, most of them are on the 3rd/4th year programs.

                                                    If memory serves me, a year of biology, a year of general chemistry, a year of organic chemistry, a year of physics, and maybe some biochemistry/math, depending on the school. I doubt you'll find undergraduate coursework in human science, that's what medical school is for. That said, you can probably take coursework in human science areas to supplement your education if you want.

                                                    3. Would the program Neuroscience help me in Med School or in writing MCAT? Or is Neuroscience really a psychological based program?

                                                    Eh, no not really.

                                                    4. I am hoping to get inside a well known Med school in Ontario. I read that Med school specialize in different things, and want to know which medical school specializes in Neurosurgery.

                                                    Just go to the websites for the Ontario medical schools, look up their neurosurgery departments (if they have them), and read up. It's possible that someone on here will be able to comment on the strength of the neurosurgery departments affiliated with various Ontario schools.
                                                     

                                                    RheaA

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                                                      Can anyone recommend some good inspirational books about the field?

                                                      How should one physically prepare for the rigors of residency? (by modifying diet, exercise etc.)
                                                      Another Day in the Frontal Lobe by Dr. Katrina S. Firlik
                                                      Brain Surgeon by Dr. Keith Black
                                                      Gifted Hands by Dr. Ben Carson
                                                      and all three of Atul Gawande's books: The Checklist Manifesto, Better, and Complications

                                                      Hope this helps! Best of luck!

                                                       
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