IA and Time Away? Does it actually help??

[redbullmed]

Hi everyone, my question is about Institutional Actions and chances at med school. I know there has been a lot of posts about this but my question is specifically about whether time and distance away from an IA ACTUALLY helps?

Like how exactly is a more recent IA treated differently by the Adcoms than one that happened close to a decade ago? At the end of the day it seems that you’re still competing with hundred and thousands of other applicants with clean records, so even tho significant time has passed between you and the incident and you may not be the same person as you were back then, it still seems like it would be treated as automatic rejection.

I guess what I am wondering is how exactly do Adcoms approach this in an application? Is it a binary decision (whether to forgive the applicant or not and then move on and review the rest of the application) or does it impact the overall score that an applicant is given?
Does it get "ignored" if significant time has passed??

Also, would a unique and big accomplishment (that a typical pre-med doesn’t have) help offset the IA in anyway? Such as starting a successful healthcare company?

I am obviously asking because I have one from nearly a decade ago, but I feel as if it will always prevent me from getting into med school Other than that I have a good GPA, EC’s, solid work experience, clinical experience etc.

Any thoughts or inputs would be appreciated!

Edit: My IA was about academic dishonesty (yes, I know its bad but I was very immature back then and severely lacked perspective. I wish I could have been a different person, but nonetheless, have improved my life in many ways since then.)

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[onlineoriginally]

Interesting question! I sometimes wondered the same thing tbh. I think it is tough to know because none of the other pre-meds know exactly what happens behind the scenes. It has been a while since your incident, so I am assuming that enough time has passed that adcoms may be able to trust that you aren't the same person as you were back then. Besides the IA, if someone with similar stats and profile was applying, they would probably be chosen over you. But if you had something highly unique that the other applicants do not have then maybe they may give you a shot?

Maybe the other adcoms on here can help.

Thoughts on this? @Goro @LizzyM

 

[candbgirl]

I agree that’s it’s tough to know but I’d like to think it’s what you have done since the IA to show that you accept/own the situation and that you have grown and learned from the experience. In many of the posts on here, people have excuses and are quick to blame the professor or TA or RA or roommate. Anyone but themselves. You seem to have accepted your part in the IA. What have you done in the last 10+ years to show you have radically changed your life and are ready to leave the IA behind and pursue your dreams(you don’t have to share unless you want to)? It’s up to you to decide if you are ready to apply and ready to do your best to convince ADCOMS you are the kind of person they want at their schools. One thing is for sure, if you don’t try you’ll never know. Good luck.

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone, my question is about Institutional Actions and chances at med school. I know there has been a lot of posts about this but my question is specifically about whether time and distance away from an IA ACTUALLY helps?

Like how exactly is a more recent IA treated differently by the Adcoms than one that happened close to a decade ago? At the end of the day it seems that you’re still competing with hundred and thousands of other applicants with clean records, so even tho significant time has passed between you and the incident and you may not be the same person as you were back then, it still seems like it would be treated as automatic rejection.

I guess what I am wondering is how exactly do Adcoms approach this in an application? Is it a binary decision (whether to forgive the applicant or not and then move on and review the rest of the application) or does it impact the overall score that an applicant is given?
Does it get "ignored" if significant time has passed??

Also, would a unique and big accomplishment (that a typical pre-med doesn’t have) help offset the IA in anyway? Such as starting a successful healthcare company?

I am obviously asking because I have one from nearly a decade ago, but I feel as if it will always prevent me from getting into med school Other than that I have a good GPA, EC’s, solid work experience, clinical experience etc.

Any thoughts or inputs would be appreciated!

Edit: My IA was about academic dishonesty (yes, I know its bad but I was very immature back then and severely lacked perspective. I wish I could have been a different person, but nonetheless, have improved my life in many ways since then.)

Context is everything.
Ten years is a long time. That's a great thing to help wash away many sins, as the you of now is not the you of then.

Also, when in your schooling did the event occur. I view things done as FR or SO to be less serious as SR, as by then you should know what you're doing and be able to resist the temptation to do wrong.

But the key question is: what was the infraction. There's cheating, and then there's CHEATING.
Sharing homework answers is very different from having someone take an exam for you, breaking into a professor's office to steal the exam key, posting answers all over the internet, or whipping out your cell phone in the middle of an exam (all true life examples, BTW).

There are definitely Adcom members who believe in redemption.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hi everyone, my question is about Institutional Actions and chances at med school. I know there has been a lot of posts about this but my question is specifically about whether time and distance away from an IA ACTUALLY helps?

Like how exactly is a more recent IA treated differently by the Adcoms than one that happened close to a decade ago? At the end of the day it seems that you’re still competing with hundred and thousands of other applicants with clean records, so even tho significant time has passed between you and the incident and you may not be the same person as you were back then, it still seems like it would be treated as automatic rejection.

I guess what I am wondering is how exactly do Adcoms approach this in an application? Is it a binary decision (whether to forgive the applicant or not and then move on and review the rest of the application) or does it impact the overall score that an applicant is given?
Does it get "ignored" if significant time has passed??

Also, would a unique and big accomplishment (that a typical pre-med doesn’t have) help offset the IA in anyway? Such as starting a successful healthcare company?

I am obviously asking because I have one from nearly a decade ago, but I feel as if it will always prevent me from getting into med school Other than that I have a good GPA, EC’s, solid work experience, clinical experience etc.

Any thoughts or inputs would be appreciated!

Edit: My IA was about academic dishonesty (yes, I know its bad but I was very immature back then and severely lacked perspective. I wish I could have been a different person, but nonetheless, have improved my life in many ways since then.)

An IA (even cheating) from 10 years ago with a lot of evidence of maturation, commitment to medicine, and with your acknowledgement that you made a stupid mistake will go a long way towards achieving redemption. Admissions committees can really understand that applicants were once young and stupid. They made mistakes, as we all did and do. However, if you grew from the experience and changed, that growth is actually a sign of character strength.

Today you are a different person. If you are otherwise competitive, apply. No need to reject yourself.

 

[redbullmed]

Here is the definitive absolute answer to your question: any answer doesnt matter. As with any other student, you are asking what are the chances if I have XYZ? You have an IA, you have years since, and that is the record you will apply with. It aint gonna change. Any answer is purely speculation and serves no purpose unless you are going to take an action other than applying. Because in the end, if you dont apply your chances are nada, zilch, zero. If you do apply, your chances are above zero.

You are absolutely right! Thanks for this - I should stop overcomplicating it and stop overthinking it and just apply and see what happens. Whether the adcoms think it is forgivable or not is up to them and out of my hands at this point.

 

[JimKimSlim]

Hi everyone, my question is about Institutional Actions and chances at med school. I know there has been a lot of posts about this but my question is specifically about whether time and distance away from an IA ACTUALLY helps?

Like how exactly is a more recent IA treated differently by the Adcoms than one that happened close to a decade ago? At the end of the day it seems that you’re still competing with hundred and thousands of other applicants with clean records, so even tho significant time has passed between you and the incident and you may not be the same person as you were back then, it still seems like it would be treated as automatic rejection.

I guess what I am wondering is how exactly do Adcoms approach this in an application? Is it a binary decision (whether to forgive the applicant or not and then move on and review the rest of the application) or does it impact the overall score that an applicant is given?
Does it get "ignored" if significant time has passed??

Also, would a unique and big accomplishment (that a typical pre-med doesn’t have) help offset the IA in anyway? Such as starting a successful healthcare company?

I am obviously asking because I have one from nearly a decade ago, but I feel as if it will always prevent me from getting into med school Other than that I have a good GPA, EC’s, solid work experience, clinical experience etc.

Any thoughts or inputs would be appreciated!

Edit: My IA was about academic dishonesty (yes, I know its bad but I was very immature back then and severely lacked perspective. I wish I could have been a different person, but nonetheless, have improved my life in many ways since then.)

I’ve seen a person with IA 1.5 years ago who got an A. It was from smoking marijuana, so I guess that’s lighter than academic dishonesty. All I’m saying is IA is not death sentence for your app, but it will be an uphill battle.

 

[redbullmed]

Context is everything.
Ten years is a long time. That's a great thing to help wash away many sins, as the you of now is not the you of then.

Also, when in your schooling did the event occur. I view things done as FR or SO to be less serious as SR, as by then you should know what you're doing and be able to resist the temptation to do wrong.

But the key question is: what was the infraction. There's cheating, and then there's CHEATING.
Sharing homework answers is very different from having someone take an exam for you, breaking into a professor's office to steal the exam key, posting answers all over the internet, or whipping out your cell phone in the middle of an exam (all true life examples, BTW).

There are definitely Adcom members who believe in redemption.

Thanks, this really helped! To answer your question it did happen in senior year and even though I should have known better by then, the truth is that I just wasn't mature enough and I didnt. Nonetheless, after completing my initial degree I took time apart to figure out a career outside of medicine and then I went back to get a second undergrad and have completed a Masters as well with a 3.9 GPA. I now work as a Data Scientist in the Healthcare domain. Although I do enjoy my job, I know I would be much happier as a physician.

And the incident was that I wasn't adequately prepared for a test and I lied to my professor about when I went to the doctor's and changed the date on an older note in order to try and get more time to study for my midterm. I realize it's pretty bad, although some people (that were adcoms in the past) say it is more of the "forgivable ones." But which is why I was wondering if the time away would help. But at this point, I can't change the past unfortunately and I should just apply and see what happens. Thanks again!

 

[redbullmed]

An IA (even cheating) from 10 years ago with a lot of evidence of maturation, commitment to medicine, and with your acknowledgement that you made a stupid mistake will go a long way towards achieving redemption. Admissions committees can really understand that applicants were once young and stupid. They made mistakes, as we all did and do. However, if you grew from the experience and changed, that growth is actually a sign of character strength.

Today you are a different person. If you are otherwise competitive, apply. No need to reject yourself.

Thank you so much for the words of encouragement!
In these situations, would a truly exceptional accomplishment help offset the IA and help me become more competitive? Or is the IA judged outside the realm of grades & extracurriculars?

 

[xffan624]

Thanks, this really helped! To answer your question it did happen in senior year and even though I should have known better by then, the truth is that I just wasn't mature enough and I didnt. Nonetheless, after completing my initial degree I took time apart to figure out a career outside of medicine and then I went back to get a second undergrad and have completed a Masters as well with a 3.9 GPA. I now work as a Data Scientist in the Healthcare domain. Although I do enjoy my job, I know I would be much happier as a physician.

And the incident was that I wasn't adequately prepared for a test and I lied to my professor about when I went to the doctor's and changed the date on an older note in order to try and get more time to study for my midterm. I know it's pretty bad, which is why I was wondering if the time away would even help. But at this point, I can't change the past unfortunately and I should just apply and see what happens. Thanks again!

Yeah, that's pretty bad. I think even after 10 years it still might be an autoreject at some places. Apply broadly. Get some LORs that emphasize your character and integrity (Ideally a supervisor in your job would help with that).

 

[redbullmed]

Yeah, that's pretty bad. I think even after 10 years it still might be an autoreject at some places. Apply broadly. Get some LORs that emphasize your character and integrity (Ideally a supervisor in your job would help with that).

Thanks for the suggestion -- applying broadly would certainly help because I have asked numerous individuals about this -- some have been previous adcoms and others are admissions consultants and some have actually stated that it is more of the "forgivable" ones as opposed to the other IAs they have encountered. So, the way the incident gets treated will definitely vary from one school to the next. Although I definitely agree with you in the sense that I also think it is pretty bad.

 

[xffan624]

Thanks for the suggestion -- applying broadly would certainly help because I have asked numerous individuals about this -- some have been previous adcoms and others are admissions consultants and some have actually stated that it is more of the "forgivable" ones as opposed to the other IAs they have encountered. So, the way the incident gets treated will definitely vary from one school to the next. Although I definitely agree with you in the sense that I also think it is pretty bad.

Lying to get more time is not the bad part for me. It's the falsifying a doctor's note to support your lie. To me it's somewhat conspiratorial beyond bad sourcing on a paper or working a project together that was supposed to be individual. It would make me worried of what you do with more important documentation such as patient's notes. Time and being given progressive levels of responsibility will help I think. I'm not an ADCOM, though.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Thank you so much for the words of encouragement!
In these situations, would a truly exceptional accomplishment help offset the IA and help me become more competitive? Or is the IA judged outside the realm of grades & extracurriculars?

No. Your application is viewed as a whole. Grades, accomplishments, masters, experience, AI, MCAT, clinical exposure, community service, fit with the school. The whole thing. If you have an exceptional accomplishment, it makes you a more attractive applicant, especially if that accomplishment is fairly recent.

You mentioned that you're a data scientist. Do you have recent clinical exposure?

 

[Goro]

Thanks, this really helped! To answer your question it did happen in senior year and even though I should have known better by then, the truth is that I just wasn't mature enough and I didnt. Nonetheless, after completing my initial degree I took time apart to figure out a career outside of medicine and then I went back to get a second undergrad and have completed a Masters as well with a 3.9 GPA. I now work as a Data Scientist in the Healthcare domain. Although I do enjoy my job, I know I would be much happier as a physician.

And the incident was that I wasn't adequately prepared for a test and I lied to my professor about when I went to the doctor's and changed the date on an older note in order to try and get more time to study for my midterm. I realize it's pretty bad, although some people (that were adcoms in the past) say it is more of the "forgivable ones." But which is why I was wondering if the time away would help. But at this point, I can't change the past unfortunately and I should just apply and see what happens. Thanks again!

I'd be willing to cut you slack for this after a decade, and seeing an exemplary record.

 

[redbullmed]

Lying to get more time is not the bad part for me. It's the falsifying a doctor's note to support your lie. To me it's somewhat conspiratorial beyond bad sourcing on a paper or working a project together that was supposed to be individual. It would make me worried of what you do with more important documentation such as patient's notes. Time and being given progressive levels of responsibility will help I think. I'm not an ADCOM, though.

Yes, I 100% agree with you. This is why even I wouldn't have trusted myself 10 years ago. And that is also why I gave up medicine for a while - forget about grades or mcat scores, I knew I wasn't mature enough to be a physician at all. But I am different person now. And that is why I guess now I am hoping that adcoms don't judge my entire persona based on the worst chapter of my life and they weigh in the subsequent chapters after that incident. Thanks for the response and for the suggestion!

 

[LindaAccepted]

Yes, I 100% agree with you. This is why even I wouldn't have trusted myself 10 years ago. And that is also why I gave up medicine for a while - forget about grades or mcat scores, I knew I wasn't mature enough to be a physician at all. But I am different person now. And that is why I guess now I am hoping that adcoms don't judge my entire persona based on the worst chapter of my life and they weigh in the subsequent chapters after that incident. Thanks for the response and for the suggestion!

I listened to a podcast this morning having nothing to do with admissions. The point made by the speaker is that acknowledging a weakness, a failing, an inadequacy and having a sense of humility when about to undertake a major responsibility is almost a qualification for that major responsibility.