ICU Nurse looking to go to medical school 2020

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ICUNurse2MD

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Hi everyone I am really looking for some advice on what I should do to be a successful applicant for medical school admission. A quick back story I was a horrible student during undergrad a pre med major with a horrible GPA. I finally got my stuff together somewhat and applied to nursing school through a community college. My combined GPA right now is a 2.6. I received a 3.4 in my associate degree nursing program and I got a 4.0 in my BSN program. I am trying to raise my gpa but it seems impossible at this point. I need to retake Orgo 2 because I received a D in the class. Along with that retake I am planning on taking Genetics, Histology and Virology to boost my gpa. My gpa is low and I dont meet the min requirements for a SMP. should I just DIY post bac with upper division science classes until I can pull my gpa up to the minimum requirements? I been working as a ICU nurse for a year and a half at a level one trauma hospital and I do have a lot of community service under my belt. I just need the grades and I will take my MCAT next year. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

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I would absolutely take more classes because they will be post-bacc and improve your GPA. Being a nurse is an awesome "EC". Classes to take if you have not already: statistics (in the math department) or biostatistics, immunology, biochemistry, anatomy and physiology ...

Just for clarification, what is your undergraduate GPA? ADN was 3.4 and BSN was 4.0? What is your current science GPA?

Also, continue volunteering at a place that fits with your values. Longevity goes a long way!

EDIT: Would you be okay applying for DO schools?

Checkout Goro's post: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention
 
I would absolutely take more classes because they will be post-bacc and improve your GPA. Being a nurse is an awesome "EC". Classes to take if you have not already: statistics (in the math department) or biostatistics, immunology, biochemistry, anatomy and physiology ...

Just for clarification, what is your undergraduate GPA? ADN was 3.4 and BSN was 4.0? What is your current science GPA?

Also, continue volunteering at a place that fits with your values. Longevity goes a long way!

EDIT: Would you be okay applying for DO schools?

Checkout Goro's post: Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention
so my cumulative gpa is a 2.6 with the ADN BSN and my undergraduate science degree which is biomedical science. I am really interested in applying to DO school but also I want to apply to Rosalind Franklin Masters program. I have taken biochemistry that was a pre-req for nursing I received a B. A&P I and II I have already from nursing I received A's in.
 
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All of the nursing courses are going to boost your numbers for DO. For MD your science GPA is going to be half what you think. You can find an Amcas excel and input all (including retakes) of your grades. Amcas will not view those grades as science but AACOMAS will take them.
This puts you in a dead zone for MD and still a 2.6 for DO.
You should not limit yourself to a starting year. You should NOT choose 2020 for a starting year.
I see you want to take mostly upper levels which is good but consider retaking any prereq you got a C or lower in and build a foundation.
Use the nursing gpa to rebound into retakes of the prereqs and Biochem (not nursing Biochem) and Genetics. Once you are finished you should reasses your GPA while studying for the MCAT.
If you return after 3.7+ for prereqs and an MCAT of 505 or better we can give you more sound advice.
 
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It sounds like you have a significant upwards trend. I think as long as you can get your GPA above 3.0 you'll get your app looked at at the very least. Adcoms aren't stupid. They'll see you've made improvements and judge your app accordingly.

Make sure the science courses you took will be the ones accepted by med schools. Some nursing programs require a different level of science courses that won't fulfill the med school requirements.
 
so my cumulative gpa is a 2.6 with the ADN BSN and my undergraduate science degree which is biomedical science. I am really interested in applying to DO school but also I want to apply to Rosalind Franklin Masters program. I have taken biochemistry that was a pre-req for nursing I received a B. A&P I and II I have already from nursing I received A's in.
So, interesting story - AMCAS isn't supposed to count nursing courses (nursing department prefix) as science classes but both of my pathophysiology courses were switched on my application to count. I don't know if it's because of the schools they were taken at or what but I was really surprised. Rare occurrence, apparently.

Anyhow, you ultimately aren't taking courses to have a high overall GPA. You're taking courses to show that you can still handle tough science courses.

Your chances for MD are low and your undergrad GPA might get you screened out but DO is more forgiving.

Your MCAT will need to be sky high for some schools. Your state schools are best if you're considering MD. N=1 but my friend was told to apply to her state school by the Dean there even though her GPA is 3.0. However, she does have a >515 MCAT and she did undergrad at an Ivy.

If you want to go to Rosalind Franklin, their masters could be your "in". Try to speak to staff there. There are plenty of schools that have pipeline programs.
 
It sounds like you have a significant upwards trend. I think as long as you can get your GPA above 3.0 you'll get your app looked at at the very least. Adcoms aren't stupid. They'll see you've made improvements and judge your app accordingly.

Make sure the science courses you took will be the ones accepted by med schools. Some nursing programs require a different level of science courses that won't fulfill the med school requirements.

It should be noted that OP has an upward trend of nursing courses. He will likely need to take some sciences to continue said trend and show he/ she can handle it.
 
All of the nursing courses are going to boost your numbers for DO. For MD your science GPA is going to be half what you think. You can find an Amcas excel and input all (including retakes) of your grades. Amcas will not view those grades as science but AACOMAS will take them.
This puts you in a dead zone for MD and still a 2.6 for DO.
You should not limit yourself to a starting year. You should NOT choose 2020 for a starting year.
I see you want to take mostly upper levels which is good but consider retaking any prereq you got a C or lower in and build a foundation.
Use the nursing gpa to rebound into retakes of the prereqs and Biochem (not nursing Biochem) and Genetics. Once you are finished you should reasses your GPA while studying for the MCAT.
If you return after 3.7+ for prereqs and an MCAT of 505 or better we can give you more sound advice.

I found this out the hard way this application cycle but it is worth repeating. AACOMAS views health professions classes as part of your science GPA, while AAMCAS does not.

Also, have you considered CRNA? Prior experience as an ICU nurse is the one case where I might suggest that being a mid-level provider is a better option than becoming a physician if you are interested in anesthesia. Outside of that, "upward trends" are quite common and with a sub 3.5 cumulative GPA you are going to be swimming against the current if you want to go to an MD school. Not impossible, but the numbers are unfavorable.
 
All of the nursing courses are going to boost your numbers for DO. For MD your science GPA is going to be half what you think. You can find an Amcas excel and input all (including retakes) of your grades. Amcas will not view those grades as science but AACOMAS will take them.
This puts you in a dead zone for MD and still a 2.6 for DO.
You should not limit yourself to a starting year. You should NOT choose 2020 for a starting year.
I see you want to take mostly upper levels which is good but consider retaking any prereq you got a C or lower in and build a foundation.
Use the nursing gpa to rebound into retakes of the prereqs and Biochem (not nursing Biochem) and Genetics. Once you are finished you should reasses your GPA while studying for the MCAT.
If you return after 3.7+ for prereqs and an MCAT of 505 or better we can give you more sound advice.

The Biochem was not a nursing biochem class it was just a general science class for all science majors and I also took microbiology as well and received an A. Pretty much you are telling me retake all my pre reqs that I received C's in as well along with the upper division science courses and nail the MCAT to have a shot at DO school. I think if I can get my gpa up and prove to that I have changed that I can do hard sciences that might take a risk.
 
I found this out the hard way this application cycle but it is worth repeating. AACOMAS views health professions classes as part of your science GPA, while AAMCAS does not.

Also, have you considered CRNA? Prior experience as an ICU nurse is the one case where I might suggest that being a mid-level provider is a better option than becoming a physician if you are interested in anesthesia. Outside of that, "upward trends" are quite common and with a sub 3.5 cumulative GPA you are going to be swimming against the current if you want to go to an MD school. Not impossible, but the numbers are unfavorable.


Hi I have considered CRNA school as a back up plan if medicine doesn't work out but I am not passionate about nursing to be honest and I really want to do medicine.
 
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Yea its going to take some work. If you have a 2.6 after that awesome nursing performance then your sGPA before that was maybe 1.9 or lower I'm sure.
 
so my cumulative gpa is a 2.6 with the ADN BSN and my undergraduate science degree which is biomedical science. I am really interested in applying to DO school but also I want to apply to Rosalind Franklin Masters program. I have taken biochemistry that was a pre-req for nursing I received a B. A&P I and II I have already from nursing I received A's in.
I would use one of the calculators for AACOMAS and AMCAS that input everything and give science and all other GPAs with classes correctly sorted.
 
The Biochem was not a nursing biochem class it was just a general science class for all science majors and I also took microbiology as well and received an A. Pretty much you are telling me retake all my pre reqs that I received C's in as well along with the upper division science courses and nail the MCAT to have a shot at DO school. I think if I can get my gpa up and prove to that I have changed that I can do hard sciences that might take a risk.
All the advice given above is great. I think your best bet is to complete this plan, get As on everything and then either apply or try for the masters at Rosalind. If it doesn't work and you can't get in, the As will make it easier for you to get into the best CRNA program possible and/or the one you want to go to.
 
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I'm just trying to understand how your ADN gpa combined with your BSN gpa can be a 2.6 while individually they are 3.4 and 4.0 respectively. Am I missing something here or what?

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Hi everyone I am really looking for some advice on what I should do to be a successful applicant for medical school admission. A quick back story I was a horrible student during undergrad a pre med major with a horrible GPA. I finally got my stuff together somewhat and applied to nursing school through a community college. My combined GPA right now is a 2.6. I received a 3.4 in my associate degree nursing program and I got a 4.0 in my BSN program. I am trying to raise my gpa but it seems impossible at this point. I need to retake Orgo 2 because I received a D in the class. Along with that retake I am planning on taking Genetics, Histology and Virology to boost my gpa. My gpa is low and I dont meet the min requirements for a SMP. should I just DIY post bac with upper division science classes until I can pull my gpa up to the minimum requirements? I been working as a ICU nurse for a year and a half at a level one trauma hospital and I do have a lot of community service under my belt. I just need the grades and I will take my MCAT next year. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Read this: ( also, SMPs are a dime a dozen. Mine would take you).
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention
 
I got an ADN and received a 3.4 in that program then I went back to get my Bachelors in nursing which was a one year bridge program and received a 4.0 in the 8 classes to be awarded a BSN. Adding the ADN, BSN, and my other bachelors degree averaged to a 2.6 cumulatively.
 
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SMP with linkage or why even?
 
I could tell you, but then I'd have to reject you.
lol can you PM me and tell me. I am in Chicago so the three programs that I am looking at to reinvent myself at are Rosalind Franklin, Loyola, and Midwestern.
 
Hi I have considered CRNA school as a back up plan if medicine doesn't work out but I am not passionate about nursing to be honest and I really want to do medicine.

It might be worth your time to go follow a CRNA around for a day. I spent a week at a big medical center shadowing an anesthesiologist and she "managed" 4 CRNA's which included basically just signing their paperwork; they did all the work on their own. The environment was very collegial and the CRNA's ate in the doctors' lounge with the docs, etc. I doubt every environment is like that but from my viewpoint, the CRNA's were treated like docs and didn't do any of the things I typically associate with nursing. Two years vs eight years of training is something worth considering, but only if you really like anesthesia, since your ICU experience leaves you uniquely positioned for a CRNA slot.
 
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It might be worth your time to go follow a CRNA around for a day. I spent a week at a big medical center shadowing an anesthesiologist and she "managed" 4 CRNA's which included basically just signing their paperwork; they did all the work on their own. The environment was very collegial and the CRNA's ate in the doctors' lounge with the docs, etc. I doubt every environment is like that but from my viewpoint, the CRNA's were treated like docs and didn't do any of the things I typically associate with nursing. Two years vs eight years of training is something worth considering, but only if you really like anesthesia, since your ICU experience leaves you uniquely positioned for a CRNA slot.
I worked with tons of CRNA's and that's not really the route I want to take. I understand my GPA is low and unfortunately grade replacement is long gone but I have seen people come back and get admitted to med school with worse GPAs than me. I am not going to accept NO for an answer. Hopefully in a couple years I can post on this forum as a success story.
 
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I worked with tons of CRNA's and that's not really the route I want to take. I understand my GPA is low and unfortunately grade replacement is long gone but I have seen people come back and get admitted to med school with worse GPAs than me. I am not going to accept NO for an answer. Hopefully in a couple years I can post on this forum as a success story.

It is certainly possible, and if that's what you really want, then you should pursue that route.
 
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lol can you PM me and tell me. I am in Chicago so the three programs that I am looking at to reinvent myself at are Rosalind Franklin, Loyola, and Midwestern.
Just FYI - It does not look like you can receive private messages.
 
There might be a misconception here regarding the scope of practice of nurse practitioners, CRNAs and certified nurse midwives. They are not "mid-level" and don't provide "mid-level" care. Being physician-centric is a huge problem and I highly recommend that all med students learn about their scope of practice as they will be our colleagues. Scope of practice varies state to state but overall, unless you're a surgeon, the scope between advanced care providers and physicians is not very different, especially when you look at veteran providers. Primary care is a great example of this.

My hospital has pulled "mid-level" and "non-physician" from documents across the hospital district because of the derogatory connotation. There are great articles that articulate why this is harmful between providers and for patient care. In my state these clinicians have full prescriptive authority (DEA license) and can open and run clinics without physician oversight. I think we forget that much of how you practice is learned/developed post-official training. You will find so many clinicians that know far more than you and they aren't physicians. No one can master it all. If we treat and refer to NPs++ as less than, we're doing everyone a disservice.

The only physician extenders are PAs, hence their full name. Considering all of the above, why wouldn't CRNAs [and NPs + CNMs] share the same lounges and designated parking lots? This is like providing ob/gyns with reserved parking spots but making midwives park elsewhere. They're both on-call providers who catch babies. They both need to find parking in a snap.

Furthermore, there are many types of clinicians that also have doctorates (including NPs, CNMs, Psychologists etc.) so they are also "doctors". Regardless of terminal degree, all clinicians deserve to be treated with the same level of respect. Same team.

@ICUNurse2MD - Keep grinding! You can get there. I understand the difference between being a nurse and wanting to go into medicine. If you were into anesthesia, sure, maybe CRNA would make sense to you. Otherwise, the desire to go into medicine will burn eternally! Best of luck to you!
 
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There might be a misconception here regarding the scope of practice of nurse practitioners, CRNAs and certified nurse midwives. They are not "mid-level" and don't provide "mid-level" care. Being physician-centric is a huge problem and I highly recommend that all med students learn about their scope of practice as they will be our colleagues. Scope of practice varies state to state but overall, unless you're a surgeon, the scope between advanced care providers and physicians is not very different, especially when you look at veteran providers. Primary care is a great example of this.

My hospital has pulled "mid-level" and "non-physician" from documents across the hospital district because of the derogatory connotation. There are great articles that articulate why this is harmful between providers and for patient care. In my state these clinicians have full prescriptive authority (DEA license) and can open and run clinics without physician oversight. I think we forget that much of how you practice is learned/developed post-official training. You will find so many clinicians that know far more than you and they aren't physicians. No one can master it all. If we treat and refer to NPs++ as less than, we're doing everyone a disservice.

The only physician extenders are PAs, hence their full name. Considering all of the above, why wouldn't CRNAs [and NPs + CNMs] share the same lounges and designated parking lots? This is like providing ob/gyns with reserved parking spots but making midwives park elsewhere. They're both on-call providers who catch babies. They both need to find parking in a snap.

Furthermore, there are many types of clinicians that also have doctorates (including NPs, CNMs, Psychologists etc.) so they are also "doctors". Regardless of terminal degree, all clinicians deserve to be treated with the same level of respect. Same team.

@ICUNurse2MD - Keep grinding! You can get there. I understand the difference between being a nurse and wanting to go into medicine. If you were into anesthesia, sure, maybe CRNA would make sense to you. Otherwise, the desire to go into medicine will burn eternally! Best of luck to you!
Oh boy...
 
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There might be a misconception here regarding the scope of practice of nurse practitioners, CRNAs and certified nurse midwives. They are not "mid-level" and don't provide "mid-level" care. Being physician-centric is a huge problem and I highly recommend that all med students learn about their scope of practice as they will be our colleagues. Scope of practice varies state to state but overall, unless you're a surgeon, the scope between advanced care providers and physicians is not very different, especially when you look at veteran providers. Primary care is a great example of this.

My hospital has pulled "mid-level" and "non-physician" from documents across the hospital district because of the derogatory connotation. There are great articles that articulate why this is harmful between providers and for patient care. In my state these clinicians have full prescriptive authority (DEA license) and can open and run clinics without physician oversight. I think we forget that much of how you practice is learned/developed post-official training. You will find so many clinicians that know far more than you and they aren't physicians. No one can master it all. If we treat and refer to NPs++ as less than, we're doing everyone a disservice.

The only physician extenders are PAs, hence their full name. Considering all of the above, why wouldn't CRNAs [and NPs + CNMs] share the same lounges and designated parking lots? This is like providing ob/gyns with reserved parking spots but making midwives park elsewhere. They're both on-call providers who catch babies. They both need to find parking in a snap.

Furthermore, there are many types of clinicians that also have doctorates (including NPs, CNMs, Psychologists etc.) so they are also "doctors". Regardless of terminal degree, all clinicians deserve to be treated with the same level of respect. Same team.

@ICUNurse2MD - Keep grinding! You can get there. I understand the difference between being a nurse and wanting to go into medicine. If you were into anesthesia, sure, maybe CRNA would make sense to you. Otherwise, the desire to go into medicine will burn eternally! Best of luck to you!
Thank you and thanks for clearing that up!!
 
Hey I'm a long-time lurker, but I finally decided to make an account to chime in.

I think as a nurse you have a lot going for you. Honestly, as @esob , @Talkbirthytome , @Blanky, and others pointed out, the CRNA or NP route is a great option for you. Since you already have ICU experience, you can do either. Going the DO/MD route will tack on several years. And if you're one to take into account opportunity cost and student loan burden, you will see that the loss in income (and time) will be substantial.

To make a long story short, I was a college drop with a poor GPA, went to junior college and retook several bio and chem courses (mixed with transferable courses) to boost my GPA, and was accepted to Uni elsewhere. I graduated with a degree in chemistry. Afterwards, I went and obtained my degree in nursing and worked as a nurse for a few years before applying to medical school. In my personal case (which might not be yours), physician was the end-goal, so the opportunity cost and loan burden didn't bother me at the time (AT THE TIME lol).

DO was the route for me since my GPA was considerably boosted. I'm not sure if its changed, but my poor grades were replaced with the new, higher grades. I also applied MD, and I believe my GPA was averaged at the time, which still got me several interviews at top schools. I think my experience is what really sold me.

In the end, you have a special story and experience that not many medical students aren't privy to. You've worked in healthcare, and know the hospital environment. You also demonstrated resiliency, humility, and maturity. These are selling points in school and life. Your perseverance is amazing, and not many can do what you did.

Goodluck @ICUNurse2MD
 
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Hey I'm a long-time lurker, but I finally decided to make an account to chime in.

I think as a nurse you have a lot going for you. Honestly, as @esob , @Talkbirthytome , @Blanky, and others pointed out, the CRNA or NP route is a great option for you. Since you already have ICU experience, you can do either. Going the DO/MD route will tack on several years. And if you're one to take into account opportunity cost and student loan burden, you will see that the loss in income (and time) will be substantial.

To make a long story short, I was a college drop with a poor GPA, went to junior college and retook several bio and chem courses (mixed with transferable courses) to boost my GPA, and was accepted to Uni elsewhere. I graduated with a degree in chemistry. Afterwards, I went and obtained my degree in nursing and worked as a nurse for a few years before applying to medical school. In my personal case (which might not be yours), physician was the end-goal, so the opportunity cost and loan burden didn't bother me at the time (AT THE TIME lol).

DO was the route for me since my GPA was considerably boosted. I'm not sure if its changed, but my poor grades were replaced with the new, higher grades. I also applied MD, and I believe my GPA was averaged at the time, which still got me several interviews at top schools. I think my experience is what really sold me.

In the end, you have a special story and experience that not many medical students aren't privy to. You've worked in healthcare, and know the hospital environment. You also demonstrated resiliency, humility, and maturity. These are selling points in school and life. Your perseverance is amazing, and not many can do what you did.

Goodluck @ICUNurse2MD

Thank you and its good to hear that you were a nurse at one point as well so you understand. Yes my end goal is to be a Doctor no matter what the cost may be. Do you feel your nursing background helped you once you did you clerkships and began your residency?
 
There might be a misconception here regarding the scope of practice of nurse practitioners, CRNAs and certified nurse midwives. They are not "mid-level" and don't provide "mid-level" care. Being physician-centric is a huge problem and I highly recommend that all med students learn about their scope of practice as they will be our colleagues. Scope of practice varies state to state but overall, unless you're a surgeon, the scope between advanced care providers and physicians is not very different, especially when you look at veteran providers. Primary care is a great example of this.

My hospital has pulled "mid-level" and "non-physician" from documents across the hospital district because of the derogatory connotation. There are great articles that articulate why this is harmful between providers and for patient care. In my state these clinicians have full prescriptive authority (DEA license) and can open and run clinics without physician oversight. I think we forget that much of how you practice is learned/developed post-official training. You will find so many clinicians that know far more than you and they aren't physicians. No one can master it all. If we treat and refer to NPs++ as less than, we're doing everyone a disservice.

The only physician extenders are PAs, hence their full name. Considering all of the above, why wouldn't CRNAs [and NPs + CNMs] share the same lounges and designated parking lots? This is like providing ob/gyns with reserved parking spots but making midwives park elsewhere. They're both on-call providers who catch babies. They both need to find parking in a snap.

Furthermore, there are many types of clinicians that also have doctorates (including NPs, CNMs, Psychologists etc.) so they are also "doctors". Regardless of terminal degree, all clinicians deserve to be treated with the same level of respect. Same team.

@ICUNurse2MD - Keep grinding! You can get there. I understand the difference between being a nurse and wanting to go into medicine. If you were into anesthesia, sure, maybe CRNA would make sense to you. Otherwise, the desire to go into medicine will burn eternally! Best of luck to you!

Everyone has a role to play and care should be patient-centric, not provider-centric, but often physicians are the highest level of oversight for the team. No one ever indicated that non-physicians be treated with a different level of respect. Let's try to keep the thread on track and not diverge into a provider flame war.
 
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Everyone has a role to play and care should be patient-centric, not provider-centric, but often physicians are the highest level of oversight for the team. No one ever indicated that non-physicians be treated with a different level of respect. Let's try to keep the thread on track and not diverge into a provider flame war.
Although this thread wasn't originally about being physician-centric, the language used was just that (even if it was unintentional). It's okay to call these things out. Otherwise, they persist.

May we all treat our colleagues with respect.


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Thank you and its good to hear that you were a nurse at one point as well so you understand. Yes my end goal is to be a Doctor no matter what the cost may be. Do you feel your nursing background helped you once you did you clerkships and began your residency?

Honestly, it is an undertaking that will take you at least whatever requirements you still need + 4yrs of med school + 3-6yrs of residency. I am in no way trying to change your mind, etc. But its something that I should have given more thought to (not saying that it would have changed my mind).

I'm in my 3rd yr of med school, but I think its helped me in my comfort with patients. All in all, nursing helped me learn a great deal, especially with my assessments and interactions.
 
Although this thread wasn't originally about being physician-centric, the language used was just that (even if it was unintentional). It's okay to call these things out. Otherwise, they persist.

May we all treat our colleagues with respect.


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Good point!
 
Hi I have considered CRNA school as a back up plan if medicine doesn't work out but I am not passionate about nursing to be honest and I really want to do medicine.
It doesn't excite you to sit there at a patients head titrating drugs? Sounds like a blast!

(I agree with you. Snoozefest)

And NPs are midlevels.
 
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