Ideal Residency Stats (to get the residency you want)

[CassieBagley]

What is your ideal residency application? Describe your ideal residency application, including Step 1/2 scores, rank in class, percentage and/or number of honor classes/elective and types of extra curricular activities.

For example:

Step 1: 240+
Class rank: top 10%, mostly honors
ECs: student clinic volunteer, summer research w/ publication, and part of student government

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[CatFactorial]

1st author basic sci paper, boss numbers.

 

[MrBeauregard]

Step 1: 250+
Rank: Top 5 (not percent); all honors
3rd year: all honors
Research: basic science poster, abstract pub, or full pub ideally
ECs: boss numbers trump any club president position

 

[Hemichordate]

.

 

[Jack is Back]

What is your ideal residency application? Describe your ideal residency application, including Step 1/2 scores, rank in class, percentage and/or number of honor classes/elective and types of extra curricular activities.

For example:

Step 1: 240+
Class rank: top 10%, mostly honors
ECs: student clinic volunteer, summer research w/ publication, and part of student government

There is no such thing as a generic ideal application.

It is very specialty dependent. Sometimes research is a must, other times Step 1 or AOA is huge. I think it would be a better exercise to peruse the NRMP data, charting outcomes and PD surverys.

It's like asking what is the ideal football player attributes and skill sets. Well, it depends what position he is playing.

 

[MilkmanAl]

There is no such thing as a generic ideal application.

There isn't? The ideal residency applicant is just someone who maxes out everything, hence why the OP's question is a bit less than useful. To run with your football analogy, the ideal player would be someone faster, stronger, more flexible, more agile, smarter, taller, etc. than everyone else. It's always nice to bring a bit of Pre-Allo to the Allo forum, though.

 

[dude1344]

Step 1: 290
Rank: #1 in class
Papers: 10 papers first author in Nature
Research: cured cancer
EC: Won nobel prize
Awards: congressional medal of honor
etc. etc. etc.

 

[turkeyjerky]

There is no such thing as a generic ideal application.

It is very specialty dependent. Sometimes research is a must, other times Step 1 or AOA is huge. I think it would be a better exercise to peruse the NRMP data, charting outcomes and PD surverys.

It's like asking what is the ideal football player attributes and skill sets. Well, it depends what position he is playing.

I don't know man, personally I'd take a 10 foot guy who weighs 800 lbs, can run a 3.3 40 and throw an accurate 120 yard pass at pretty much any position.

 

[CassieBagley]

There is no such thing as a generic ideal application.

It is very specialty dependent. Sometimes research is a must, other times Step 1 or AOA is huge. I think it would be a better exercise to peruse the NRMP data, charting outcomes and PD surverys.

It's like asking what is the ideal football player attributes and skill sets. Well, it depends what position he is playing.

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

Step 1: 290
Rank: #1 in class
Papers: 10 papers first author in Nature
Research: cured cancer
EC: Won nobel prize
Awards: congressional medal of honor
etc. etc. etc.

Only 4 out of 5 do you think I can still get into top 5 family medicine residency?

 

[AlexMorph]

Allo becomes like Pre-Allo...

 

[CassieBagley]

Allo becomes like Pre-Allo...

Well let's not beat around the bush: Allo is pre-allo. It's an ongoing application process to get the job you want. Attending med school is just the next step in that process.

 

[MrsOfficer]

You'll hear again and again, there is no ideal application. If you're really struggling/dreaming, check out the book "The Successful Match". It does a great job explaining each element of the application, bit by bit, specialty by specialty. I think you'll be shocked by the variety. Sure, all the over-achiever elements won't hurt on any application, but the emphasis is different. You'll see.

Also, as a FIRST year, PLEASE focus on what you enjoy, and then dive in it. You have some very formative years coming ahead of you, and if you're so busy trying to be perfectly perfect, you'll miss the good stuff. Follow your passion.

You can think of it like dating, really. You can try to airbrush yourself to be the perfect mate, most attractive/successful/whatever. But you might be missing out on someone who loves you for who you really are, and it'll be all that much more meaningful. Sorry to be so sappy, but after going through the process, it's so true.

 

[MrBeauregard]

MrsOfficer,
It sounds like you've got a lot of good advice to give and, if you don't mind, I'd love to hear some of it. I'm one of those students who is always pushing to be the best of the best. I'm a MS2 now but still studying hard for those few extra points to be at the top of the class. I'm trying to maximize my time now to get the absolute highest I can on my boards. I'm doing research to add that extra aspect to my CV. What is it that you would have done differently were you a student like myself? I do things that I enjoy and I, like many people, have an idea of what specialty I'd like to apply to. From what you've experienced going through the match, what are some pointers?

 

[Jack is Back]

Medicine is a cruel mistress.

Don't give her your life, just let her support yours.

-- Jack

 

[MilkmanAl]

Just have a look at Charting Outcomes in the Match and the other data on the site to figure out what you need to be doing.

 

[QuaerensIntelle]

Not having a personality disorder is always a good thing...

 

[Morsetlis]

Not having a personality disorder is always a good thing...

Medical students...

 

[dienekes88]

You'll hear again and again, there is no ideal application. If you're really struggling/dreaming, check out the book "The Successful Match". It does a great job explaining each element of the application, bit by bit, specialty by specialty. I think you'll be shocked by the variety. Sure, all the over-achiever elements won't hurt on any application, but the emphasis is different. You'll see.

Agree.

Also, as a FIRST year, PLEASE focus on what you enjoy, and then dive in it. You have some very formative years coming ahead of you, and if you're so busy trying to be perfectly perfect, you'll miss the good stuff. Follow your passion.

Disagree. Gotta be prepared. Plenty of people wish they had prepared better (gotten a better Step 1, done research earlier, etc.). I don't know anyone who regrets working too hard during medical school (e.g. "gee, I wish I hadn't studied so hard for Step 1, this really high score is so awful...). Plenty of people work too much after medical school, but that's a different story.

You can think of it like dating, really. You can try to airbrush yourself to be the perfect mate, most attractive/successful/whatever. But you might be missing out on someone who loves you for who you really are, and it'll be all that much more meaningful. Sorry to be so sappy, but after going through the process, it's so true.

There's such thing as keeping an open mind for the perfect match in terms of field while being 100% prepared for everything. I doubt that a Family Medicine residency program will blacklist you because you have too much research on your CV or you have too many honors during 3rd year.

A more frequent story in my experience is people who don't take grades or research too seriously until they realize they want to go into a super competitive field. Whoops.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I don't know anyone who regrets working too hard during medical school (e.g. "gee, I wish I hadn't studied so hard for Step 1, this really high score is so awful...).

You don't? I know plenty of people who wish they'd worked a lot less during the first two years. Step 1 is different, obviously, though there are always a few who peak some time before taking the test.

 

[thesauce]

Step 1: 290
Rank: #1 in class
Papers: 10 papers first author in Nature
Research: cured cancer
EC: Won nobel prize
Awards: congressional medal of honor
etc. etc. etc.

And yet there are still programs that wouldn't even interview you based on the med school you went to...

 

[Jack is Back]

I don't know anyone who regrets working too hard during medical school (e.g. "gee, I wish I hadn't studied so hard for Step 1, this really high score is so awful...).

You don't? I know plenty of people who wish they'd worked a lot less during the first two years. Step 1 is different, obviously, though there are always a few who peak some time before taking the test.

Agreed.

There are people losing tons of sleep and not exercising, not taking care of their health, secluding themselves, then becoming depressed. The reason you don't hear people saying this is because they are either workaholics and have no outside interests or they aren't and they broke down after the monotony of it all.

Balance > working all day + honoring everything + #1 class rank

Step 1 is different because it's only 4-6 weeks and can be a short intense workaholic phase.

 

[dienekes88]

You don't? I know plenty of people who wish they'd worked a lot less during the first two years. Step 1 is different, obviously, though there are always a few who peak some time before taking the test.

No. I don't. I know people who studied a lot of the wrong material during 1st and 2nd year and regretted focusing on the wrong things. That's different, though.

Agreed.

There are people losing tons of sleep and not exercising, not taking care of their health, secluding themselves, then becoming depressed. The reason you don't hear people saying this is because they are either workaholics and have no outside interests or they aren't and they broke down after the monotony of it all.

Balance > working all day + honoring everything + #1 class rank

Balance is nice if you can afford it. If you're average and want to be competitive with the heavy hitters, you can't hope for balance.

Running 2-3 hours per week is not difficult. There are 168 hours in a week.

Step 1 is different because it's only 4-6 weeks and can be a short intense workaholic phase.

You're just smarter than I am. I had to study for 7 months to be prepared for Step 1.

 

[MilkmanAl]

No. I don't. I know people who studied a lot of the wrong material during 1st and 2nd year and regretted focusing on the wrong things. That's different, though.

I guess we go to very different schools and have very different friends. Lots of people in my class realized that their work during the first two years was mostly for naught when they started getting a load of interviews before even having their transcripts submitted. Events like that put things in perspective pretty quickly.

 

[Jack is Back]

No. I don't. I know people who studied a lot of the wrong material during 1st and 2nd year and regretted focusing on the wrong things. That's different, though.



Balance is nice if you can afford it. If you're average and want to be competitive with the heavy hitters, you can't hope for balance.

Running 2-3 hours per week is not difficult. There are 168 hours in a week.



You're just smarter than I am. I had to study for 7 months to be prepared for Step 1.

You can always hope for balance. Stop trying to "compete with the heavy hitters" and start trying to find your way into the residency of your choice. You can pay too big of a price. All the while, someone is living a balanced life and will match the very specialty you are thinking is impossible to do without balance.

There is no job in medicine worth losing a balanced life for.

 

[dienekes88]

You can always hope for balance. Stop trying to "compete with the heavy hitters" and start trying to find your way into the residency of your choice. You can pay too big of a price. All the while, someone is living a balanced life and will match the very specialty you are thinking is impossible to do without balance.

It's possible for someone else. Not possible for me. You're overgeneralizing. If someone super smart can do it with balance, that says nothing about the average guys. Average guys living balanced lives do average things.

I don't really care for the "find your way" approach. We're not all pretty little snowflakes. You either have publications or you don't. You're either first author or you're not.

There is no job in medicine worth losing a balanced life for.

Disagree. Balance is essentially a phenomenon of the past decade and has become an obsession leading to popularity of certain lifestyle specialties. I applaud you for finding out that it's very important to you.

 

[Jack is Back]

It's possible for someone else. Not possible for me. You're overgeneralizing. If someone super smart can do it with balance, that says nothing about the average guys. Average guys living balanced lives do average things.

I don't really care for the "find your way" approach. We're not all pretty little snowflakes. You either have publications or you don't. You're either first author or you're not.



Disagree. Balance is essentially a phenomenon of the past decade and has become an obsession leading to popularity of certain lifestyle specialties. I applaud you for finding out that it's very important to you.

It's not a phenomenon of the past decade, if anything, we've been sold that it isn't something to pay attention to over the last few decades. Family, relationships, health, spirit, serving people in need, these are the things that matter when you are on your death bed. You won't care about your 1st authors, your step score, or matching XYZ specialty if you give up your health, relationships, and ability to contribute.

Medicine has all sold us a bag of goods that says, "give every waking moment to the field." That's unnatural and not healthy.

I feel bad for the people so busy getting published that they ignore friends, family, serving others, and exercise. Those aren't the extracurriculars of life, they are the reason for life. Having a career to invest your efforts in is nice, but it isn't life. You'll find this out AFTER you are practicing in the field. Before you get there, you idealize it. Check out some physician satisfaction surveys. Surgeons are the least satisfied physicians but they do exactly what you are advocating.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Balance is essentially a phenomenon of the past decade and has become an obsession leading to popularity of certain lifestyle specialties.

I guess I'm glad people like you exist, but it sure does seem like a truly terrible life to lead.

 

[2012mdc]

You're just smarter than I am. I had to study for 7 months to be prepared for Step 1.

I took Step 1 in June 2010 and started studying in January. Still had balance but that's pretty irrelevant to your case or anyone else's.

If you can work 120 hours a week without much social time and still be happy then you are sufficiently balanced for your personality/situation/wants/needs.

People have different needs/wants/definitions of balance and one just needs to find the specialty that fits in with theirs.

I do believe it's somewhat of a cop out to say "well I'm average so I have to work harder and I don't need balance". First it makes it seems like the students you think are naturally smarter don't work hard or earn their grades. You can still work very hard and be efficient enough to have balance. I worked my butt off in medical school but still have had a social life (and no I'm not one of those 43 MCAT people and yes I've excelled in med school)

 

[thesauce]

I took Step 1 in June 2010 and started studying in January. Still had balance but that's pretty irrelevant to your case or anyone else's.

If you can work 120 hours a week without much social time and still be happy then you are sufficiently balanced for your personality/situation/wants/needs.

People have different needs/wants/definitions of balance and one just needs to find the specialty that fits in with theirs.

I do believe it's somewhat of a cop out to say "well I'm average so I have to work harder and I don't need balance". First it makes it seems like the students you think are naturally smarter don't work hard or earn their grades. You can still work very hard and be efficient enough to have balance. I worked my butt off in medical school but still have had a social life (and no I'm not one of those 43 MCAT people and yes I've excelled in med school)

I don't follow. Why is this a cop out? Like it or not, there are people that can memorize easier than you or I. Certainly some of them work extremely hard on top of that, but some don't. If you have to put in 4 times the effort to be at that same level, so be it. You're sacrificing a couple of years of "balance" for the chance at a lifetime in the specialty you want. It doesn't have to last forever.

 

[2012mdc]

I don't follow. Why is this a cop out? Like it or not, there are people that can memorize easier than you or I. Certainly some of them work extremely hard on top of that, but some don't. If you have to put in 4 times the effort to be at that same level, so be it. You're sacrificing a couple of years of "balance" for the chance at a lifetime in the specialty you want. It doesn't have to last forever.

I believe it's a cop out to say I'm not as smart so I can't afford balance. It's a cop out in the sense that they are not evaluating their study methods and becoming as efficient as possible.

 

[Jack is Back]

I believe it's a cop out to say I'm not as smart so I can't afford balance. It's a cop out in the sense that they are not evaluating their study methods and becoming as efficient as possible.

I agree with both of the ideas.

It's a cop out to just say, "I can't be balanced. I'm not smart enough."

At the same time, working harder to achieve the goal you want is a good thing. But there is a limit, you can't always work harder.

With that said, the people who lose balance in medical school, I don't think it's "just a few years". It leads from a few years, to a handful more years in residency, then they are so used to it after a decade that it just continues on. All the sudden, you wake up and realize nothing is worth this and you are "dissatisfied" with your career choice.

 

[thesauce]

I agree with both of the ideas.

It's a cop out to just say, "I can't be balanced. I'm not smart enough."

Selling yourself short is not good, I agree. However, we all have to make choices (I can either go out or stay home and study) and, in the face of med school, you confront these decision more often. If you more often choose to study - that may be what puts you ahead.

At the same time, working harder to achieve the goal you want is a good thing. But there is a limit, you can't always work harder.

With that said, the people who lose balance in medical school, I don't think it's "just a few years". It leads from a few years, to a handful more years in residency, then they are so used to it after a decade that it just continues on. All the sudden, you wake up and realize nothing is worth this and you are "dissatisfied" with your career choice.

However, when you wake up, you still have the fruits of your labor to show for all that hard work you put in. When I think back to my undergrad and first 2 years of med school, it doesn't seem like I had much "balance," but it put me on a great path. I love my life now and certainly don't regret the sacrifice it took to get here.

 

[Jack is Back]

Selling yourself short is not good, I agree. However, we all have to make choices (I can either go out or stay home and study) and, in the face of med school, you confront these decision more often. If you more often choose to study - that may be what puts you ahead.



However, when you wake up, you still have the fruits of your labor to show for all that hard work you put in. When I think back to my undergrad and first 2 years of med school, it doesn't seem like I had much "balance," but it put me on a great path. I love my life now and certainly don't regret the sacrifice it took to get here.

To each his own. I will avoid any further criticism of other people's choices. We are all very different. Good luck to you!

 

[dienekes88]

I took Step 1 in June 2010 and started studying in January. Still had balance but that's pretty irrelevant to your case or anyone else's.

If you can work 120 hours a week without much social time and still be happy then you are sufficiently balanced for your personality/situation/wants/needs.

People have different needs/wants/definitions of balance and one just needs to find the specialty that fits in with theirs.

I do believe it's somewhat of a cop out to say "well I'm average so I have to work harder and I don't need balance". First it makes it seems like the students you think are naturally smarter don't work hard or earn their grades. You can still work very hard and be efficient enough to have balance. I worked my butt off in medical school but still have had a social life (and no I'm not one of those 43 MCAT people and yes I've excelled in med school)

Your words. Not mine. They work hard and earn their grades. I just have to work harder to earn mine. I'm not selling myself short; I just realize that even studying efficiently, I just have to log more hours to achieve what I want, which admittedly is quite a bit loftier than what other people want. This isn't a Whipple; it's not complicated.

 

[dienekes88]

I believe it's a cop out to say I'm not as smart so I can't afford balance. It's a cop out in the sense that they are not evaluating their study methods and becoming as efficient as possible.

It's incorrect to assume that anyone who studies for long periods of time is inefficient. Maybe they are efficient... and learning more.

There seems to be this myth on SDN that efficiency is directly related to how much time you spend studying. One person studies 4 hours and another studies 8 hours, so the person who studies less is more efficient. The problem is that this line of reasoning assumes that both students are similarly prepared, and this might not be the case. There are varying degrees of efficiency and they may be completely unrelated to the length of time spent studying. I'm not sure if you realize this, but the people who are scoring well on most of the shelves... are often the same few people every single time.

As long as I can exercise 2-3x/week, I'm good. If that means I will continue to only run 7'00"/mile for a half-marathon, then that's life.

 

[ACSheldor]

People who are doing things they love don't need a "balanced" life. They're perfectly happy doing what they are doing for long periods of time. My day consists of long hours of studying yet I'm very very happy because I've experienced life and know I wouldn't rather be doing anything else. When you believe in the work you're doing (i.e. investing in yourself to become a great doctor) then you don't mind letting that take control of your life. Just my 2 cents. I keep my sanity by knowing I'm doing everything possible to be the best doctor I can be and having a balanced life (exercising, friends, going out drinking several nights a week) doesn't help ME achieve that goal.

 

[MilkmanAl]

When you believe in the work you're doing (i.e. investing in yourself to become a great doctor) then you don't mind letting that take control of your life.

I was with you until this statement which I take serious issue with. Implying that people who choose not to spend every waking moment on medicine aren't invested in their work is absurd and outright offensive. The vast majority of people in med school are quite committed to being a physician, but most of them also pursue other interests. That doesn't mean they're doomed to be inferior doctors. If you're fine with grinding away at all the medical literature you can get your hands on, by all means, fire away, but don't act like that makes you better than everyone else. I'm aware that, given the rest of your post, you probably weren't trying to sound condescending, but be careful.

 

[Guillemot]

Ive seen quite a few ******ed posts by ACSheldor lately. Just sayin.

 

[Jolie South]

People who are doing things they love don't need a "balanced" life. They're perfectly happy doing what they are doing for long periods of time. My day consists of long hours of studying yet I'm very very happy because I've experienced life and know I wouldn't rather be doing anything else. When you believe in the work you're doing (i.e. investing in yourself to become a great doctor) then you don't mind letting that take control of your life. Just my 2 cents. I keep my sanity by knowing I'm doing everything possible to be the best doctor I can be and having a balanced life (exercising, friends, going out drinking several nights a week) doesn't help ME achieve that goal.

Come back in a few years and let us know how this turns out.

I was with you until this statement which I take serious issue with. Implying that people who choose not to spend every waking moment on medicine aren't invested in their work is absurd and outright offensive. The vast majority of people in med school are quite committed to being a physician, but most of them also pursue other interests. That doesn't mean they're doomed to be inferior doctors. If you're fine with grinding away at all the medical literature you can get your hands on, by all means, fire away, but don't act like that makes you better than everyone else. I'm aware that, given the rest of your post, you probably weren't trying to sound condescending, but be careful.

I agree. I personally think doing other things and finding enjoyment in friends, family, and outside activities makes you a better doctor. The people that do have an outside life are not awkward doctor robots and also are more likely to avoid burn out.

 

[ACSheldor]

I was with you until this statement which I take serious issue with. Implying that people who choose not to spend every waking moment on medicine aren't invested in their work is absurd and outright offensive. The vast majority of people in med school are quite committed to being a physician, but most of them also pursue other interests. That doesn't mean they're doomed to be inferior doctors. If you're fine with grinding away at all the medical literature you can get your hands on, by all means, fire away, but don't act like that makes you better than everyone else. I'm aware that, given the rest of your post, you probably weren't trying to sound condescending, but be careful.

I didn't mean to imply that for everyone, it's how I feel about myself as a doctor. It's frustrating being in medical school and trying to work hard and having all the MS2's shove the balance card in your face. People have different meanings of balance and different interests. Yes, you should be careful of burnout but I know myself better than anyone and I know I can handle it. I'm not trying to sound or imply that I'm better than anyone else for it (I apologize if that is how it came off) but I find it frustrating to see how much MS1s complain about every little thing in medical school. I mean it IS medical school, what else did you expect? It just seems to me that too many MS1s want special treatment in medical school and haven't embraced that it's supposed to be hard/uncomfortable/time consuming.

Ive seen quite a few ******ed posts by ACSheldor lately. Just sayin.

Thanks for adding so much to this conversation.

Come back in a few years and let us know how this turns out.



I agree. I personally think doing other things and finding enjoyment in friends, family, and outside activities makes you a better doctor. The people that do have an outside life are not awkward doctor robots and also are more likely to avoid burn out.

Maybe I am naive and idealistic, I don't know. Again, balance and enjoyment is different things for different people so somebody can't push their definition of balance and enjoyment of life onto others. My life consists of studying about medicine and a few hours a night with my wife and son. Between those two I am very happy and that is my idea of balance.

All I'm trying to say is that there are different definitions of balance to other people and too many people try to push their own definitions of balance onto other people like those are the only things that can make a person happy.

 

[CassieBagley]

This discussion about balance is great and all, but my OP was for realz about the best stats to get into residency. Quit hijacking my thread and start your own "Pros/cons of being balanced"

To redirect this thread: What are YOU doing or planning to do to ensure you get the residency you want??

 

[Jack is Back]

This discussion about balance is great and all, but my OP was for realz about the best stats to get into residency. Quit hijacking my thread and start your own "Pros/cons of being balanced"

To redirect this thread: What are YOU doing or planning to do to ensure you get the residency you want??

Everything.

Come on bro, the whole concept behind this thread is ludicrous.

 

[phltz]

This discussion about balance is great and all, but my OP was for realz about the best stats to get into residency. Quit hijacking my thread and start your own "Pros/cons of being balanced"

To redirect this thread: What are YOU doing or planning to do to ensure you get the residency you want??

Marry the daughter of the director of the residency program you want to go to.

 

[2012mdc]

I didn't mean to imply that for everyone, it's how I feel about myself as a doctor. It's frustrating being in medical school and trying to work hard and having all the MS2's shove the balance card in your face. People have different meanings of balance and different interests. Yes, you should be careful of burnout but I know myself better than anyone and I know I can handle it. I'm not trying to sound or imply that I'm better than anyone else for it (I apologize if that is how it came off) but I find it frustrating to see how much MS1s complain about every little thing in medical school. I mean it IS medical school, what else did you expect? It just seems to me that too many MS1s want special treatment in medical school and haven't embraced that it's supposed to be hard/uncomfortable/time consuming.



Thanks for adding so much to this conversation.



Maybe I am naive and idealistic, I don't know. Again, balance and enjoyment is different things for different people so somebody can't push their definition of balance and enjoyment of life onto others. My life consists of studying about medicine and a few hours a night with my wife and son. Between those two I am very happy and that is my idea of balance.

All I'm trying to say is that there are different definitions of balance to other people and too many people try to push their own definitions of balance onto other people like those are the only things that can make a person happy.

A few hours every night with your family is balance. I don't think people are trying to say exactly what you should be doing when you're not studying, they are just saying not to study all the time. There are posters on SDN who imply or state that all they do is study and medicine isn't a huge part of their life, it is their entire life. You obviously aren't one of those ppl.

 

[ACSheldor]

I'd say it still is a huge part though. Out of the 14 productive hours in a given day, about 10-12 are spent studying or something else medicine related. That includes weekends and holidays. My only problem is that when I come back from a 3 or 4 day weekend and get asked by MS1s/MS2s about what my weekend was like and I tell them I studied most of the time, they pull out the "you're working too hard/make room for balance" line on me like I don't know that already or somehow because I don't fit their definition of balanced then I must of had a miserable holiday. Just because studying/reading about medicine makes them miserable doesn't mean it makes me feel the same way.

 

[Jack is Back]

I'd say it still is a huge part though. Out of the 14 productive hours in a given day, about 10-12 are spent studying or something else medicine related. That includes weekends and holidays. My only problem is that when I come back from a 3 or 4 day weekend and get asked by MS1s/MS2s about what my weekend was like and I tell them I studied most of the time, they pull out the "you're working too hard/make room for balance" line on me like I don't know that already or somehow because I don't fit their definition of balanced then I must of had a miserable holiday. Just because studying/reading about medicine makes them miserable doesn't mean it makes me feel the same way.

12 hours a day, 7 days a week is excessive IMO. But to each his own.

I can't imagine how well I would do if I could study that much. In reality, I can't because I enjoy being around people too much to isolate myself like that.

It's frustrating being in medical school and trying to work hard and having all the MS2's shove the balance card in your face. People have different meanings of balance and different interests.

That includes weekends and holidays. My only problem is that when I come back from a 3 or 4 day weekend and get asked by MS1s/MS2s about what my weekend was like and I tell them I studied most of the time, they pull out the "you're working too hard/make room for balance" line on me like I don't know that already or somehow because I don't fit their definition of balanced then I must of had a miserable holiday.

Here's an idea, instead of telling people you studied 12 hours a day after a 4 day holiday weekend, tell them you got to spend some time with your wife and son. #1, according to you, you did. #2 Normal people do something of interest when there is free time (family, recreation, social time, hobby, etc.) This is a good and healthy part of your life. To work 70 hours a week on medicine then take a holiday weekend or vacation time to work 70 hours a week on medicine, IS lack of balance and is not normal/healthy.

 

[ACSheldor]

The point I'm trying to make is that for ME it's not. I don't feel miserable or have a feeling of missing out on anything at the end of those days. I only have 2 interests I concentrate my time on: my family and medicine. What I'm trying to say is that just because you can't imagine doing that doesn't mean it's wrong/unhealthy for someone else to do it because they enjoy that type of schedule/weekend.

 

[Jack is Back]

The point I'm trying to make is that for ME it's not. I don't feel miserable or have a feeling of missing out on anything at the end of those days. I only have 2 interests I concentrate my time on: my family and medicine. What I'm trying to say is that just because you can't imagine doing that doesn't mean it's wrong/unhealthy for someone else to do it because they enjoy that type of schedule/weekend.

And I will default back to my response, to each his own.

It seems crazy to me but if that's your thing, who am I to say it's wrong for you? I wish you the best bro. Become the best physician you can be.