If I want to do plastic surg or derm should I choose D.O. or caribbean school?

[totoro723]

I was wondering if it is easier to become a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist through D.O. school or caribbean school? and is caribbean school like ten times harder to become those specialties?

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[Taus]

Both aren't the ideal for those specialties, however because DO's have their own residencies that are open to DO's only, I think that might be a safer way to go...

 

[Dr. MAXY]

I was wondering if it is easier to become a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist through D.O. school or caribbean school? and is caribbean school like ten times harder to become those specialties?

Plastic Surg or Derm via DO or USFMG? Good Luck. DO will be the best out of the two.

 

[LTrain1]

I was wondering if it is easier to become a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist through D.O. school or caribbean school? and is caribbean school like ten times harder to become those specialties?

neither, the only chance would be getting a crappy aoa residency but I don't think they even have any for integrated plastics

 

[Taus]

PCOM has an integrated plastics residency...I'm sure it can't be that bad if the school sponsors it...

 

[VentdependenT]

If that is your motivation for med school then try your best for a USMD.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I was wondering if it is easier to become a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist through D.O. school or caribbean school? and is caribbean school like ten times harder to become those specialties?

It is more difficult to get a residency as a Caribbean MD than as a DO.

 

[NRAI2001]

Plastic Surg or Derm via DO or USFMG? Good Luck. DO will be the best out of the two.

I might be wrong, but aren't there like very few aoa plastics spots? I think below 20 spots a year, maybe less?

But yea, i would vote for DOs having an easier time (still tougher than US MD); harder out of the carribean, but not impossible.

 

[PlasticMan]

If cosmetic plastic surgeon is what you are seeking, how about doing general surgery residency with a cosmetic fellowship? You can still become a cosmetic surgeon then I believe.

 

[Pharos]

This is just a thought.... but keep in mind - it's probably not a great idea to base your decision entirely on your residency plans, as it sounds like many, many people change their minds on their specialty desires once actually in med school. Probably a good idea to keep that in mind and try to find a "balance" to your decision.... and yes, I know it's easier said than done. Good Luck!

 

[(nicedream)]

I was wondering if it is easier to become a plastic surgeon or a dermatologist through D.O. school or caribbean school? and is caribbean school like ten times harder to become those specialties?

This is a pretty easy one - for plastics do Caribbean (but you'd have to DESTROY the USMLE), for derm do DO (there are a fair # of AOA derm spots, but only about 3 plastic spots/year).
UNLESS you want to do Facial Plastic (ENT) - then go DO because there are a bunch of those programs.

 

[bnoosha]

SOrry...but what is Facial Plastic (ENT) ???


thanks

This is a pretty easy one - for plastics do Caribbean (but you'd have to DESTROY the USMLE), for derm do DO (there are a fair # of AOA derm spots, but only about 3 plastic spots/year).
UNLESS you want to do Facial Plastic (ENT) - then go DO because there are a bunch of those programs.

 

[OSUdoc08]

This is a pretty easy one - for plastics do Caribbean (but you'd have to DESTROY the USMLE), for derm do DO (there are a fair # of AOA derm spots, but only about 3 plastic spots/year).
UNLESS you want to do Facial Plastic (ENT) - then go DO because there are a bunch of those programs.

 

[stretch210]

This is a pretty easy one - for plastics do Caribbean (but you'd have to DESTROY the USMLE), for derm do DO (there are a fair # of AOA derm spots, but only about 3 plastic spots/year).
UNLESS you want to do Facial Plastic (ENT) - then go DO because there are a bunch of those programs.

If you are using this logic then go DO and "DESTROY the USMLE," that way you are an american graduate (better off), you destroyed the usmle either way, and you also have those three other options to apply to (and by then there may be more, who knows).

 

[NRAI2001]

This is a pretty easy one - for plastics do Caribbean (but you'd have to DESTROY the USMLE), for derm do DO (there are a fair # of AOA derm spots, but only about 3 plastic spots/year).
UNLESS you want to do Facial Plastic (ENT) - then go DO because there are a bunch of those programs.

Just wondering why do you think carribean grads have a better shot at plastics?

Is plastics harder to get than ortho?

 

[totoro723]

thanks for all of the reply =)

 

[Rendar5]

why the thumb down?

 

[OSUdoc08]

why the thumb down?

It's not easier for anything as a Caribbean grad, and that poster knows this.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Just wondering why do you think carribean grads have a better shot at plastics?

Is plastics harder to get than ortho?

Ortho is much easier to get into as a DO, because there are many AOA orthopedic residencies, and very few plastics.

However, most ACGME residencies would much rather take an American DO than a Caribbean MD, for obvious reasons.

 

[NRAI2001]

Ortho is much easier to get into as a DO, because there are many AOA orthopedic residencies, and very few plastics.

However, most ACGME residencies would much rather take an American DO than a Caribbean MD, for obvious reasons.

What are these obvious reasons?

 

[OSUdoc08]

What are these obvious reasons?

Anyone can be admitted to a caribbean school. They have no standards.

People are actually rejected from DO schools, believe it or not.

 

[Rendar5]

and a lot of those people fail at those schools. I"m still not understanding why the thumbs down. was the guy lying when he implied that there are more plastics residency spots for FMGs than for DO's? I'm just confused cause he seemed to be backing up his opinion with some facts and i haven't seen anything counter to what he said.

 

[OSUdoc08]

and a lot of those people fail at those schools. I"m still not understanding why the thumbs down. was the guy lying when he implied that there are more plastics residency spots for FMGs than for DO's? I'm just confused cause he seemed to be backing up his opinion with some facts and i haven't seen anything counter to what he said.

No. There are not more plastics fellowship spots for Caribbean medical grads than DO's.

There are more spots available to DO's.

 

[Rendar5]

so there are more than 3 plastics spots / year for DO? I konw that poster mentioned that ENT plastics was easier for DO and didn't seem to be including that in his stats (personally, i would assume that it's easier to do DO overall and that's the advice i also give out, but that poster seemed to be very specific in his advice. I hate assuming something that can be proven)

 

[OSUdoc08]

so there are more than 3 plastics spots / year for DO? I konw that poster mentioned that ENT plastics was easier for DO and didn't seem to be including that in his stats (personally, i would assume that it's easier to do DO overall and that's the advice i also give out, but that poster seemed to be very specific in his advice. I hate assuming something that can be proven)

Since it is well known that relatively anyone can get into Caribbean schools, and that they have substandard education (since they do not have any US medical educational regulatory agency watching what they teach), it is no surprise that a majority of residencies would gladly choose a DO over a Caribbean grad with equivalent stats.

 

[NRAI2001]

Anyone can be admitted to a caribbean school. They have no standards.

People are actually rejected from DO schools, believe it or not.

Why would this equate to such an obvious factor? Everyone knows that both carribean and DO schools are peoples 2nd choices. I would think that your performance in med school would matter more.

PS: I would rather go to a DO school (applying to them right now)(not applying to carrib. schools), but I am not one to bash carribean schools, and ignore the draw backs of DO schools. Both schools train good physicians and the top carribean schools provide good clinical years.

 

[NRAI2001]

Since it is well known that relatively anyone can get into Caribbean schools, and that they have substandard education (since they do not have any US medical educational regulatory agency watching what they teach), it is no surprise that a majority of residencies would gladly choose a DO over a Caribbean grad with equivalent stats.

Which regulatory agency proceeds over the DO schools? The AOA? Everyone knows that the AOA is very far from perfect.

 

[NRAI2001]

I know that to be a licensed physician in the US you must do a residency in this country. So lets say you did a IM residency in the US and you still werent able to match into some fellowship (or residency in this case = derm), could you go train in this field in some other country for some time and then come back and practice it in the US? Since you were a licensed IM physician you can legally practice in the US, but could u practice lets say cardio or derm? I know that any physician can perform any procedure they are comfortable with (obviously a FP will not be comfortable practicing CT or neurosurgery).

Same with plastics. Lets say you did general surgery here for 5 years, didnt get a plstics fellowship. Could you go to mexico, south america, europe...etc do plastics fellowship there and then return to US to practice?

 

[(nicedream)]

I know that to be a licensed physician in the US you must do a residency in this country. So lets say you did a IM residency in the US and you still werent able to match into some fellowship (or residency in this case = derm), could you go train in this field in some other country for some time and then come back and practice it in the US? Since you were a licensed IM physician you can legally practice in the US, but could u practice lets say cardio or derm? I know that any physician can perform any procedure they are comfortable with (obviously a FP will not be comfortable practicing CT or neurosurgery).

Same with plastics. Lets say you did general surgery here for 5 years, didnt get a plstics fellowship. Could you go to mexico, south america, europe...etc do plastics fellowship there and then return to US to practice?

You would not be board certified in those fields. That may introduce billing complications as well as turn off patients.

 

[(nicedream)]

My post regarding plastic surgery, derm, and facial plastic/ENT was absolutely correct. As someone suggested, it is based on statistics and not hearsay.

As I said in my other post, the moderate # of AOA derm and facial/ENT slots which are available to DOs (about 20/year) makes going the osteopathic route much preferrable to caribbean, as the caribbeans will be competing against top US MDs. As a DO applying to AOA spots, you are on equal footing with all applicants.

As for plastic surgery, yes, it is preferable to go caribbean. Along with radiation oncology, this is is one of the fields that is essentially closed to DOs. Of the 576 current ACGME slots, 1 is filled by a DO while 38 are filled with FMGs. If you want to count on being that 0.2%, go ahead - you're a fool. There are only 3 AOA slots per year - that's what you'd be banking on. It could not be clearer.

Someone asked what Facial Plastic/ENT is. ENT (Ear Nose Throat) is otolaryngology, and the training is also called Facial Plastic Surgery. It is essentialy Head/Neck Surgery. You can focus your practice on the ENT part (sinusitis etc) or facial plastic surgery. Residency programs also have different focus' on each.

 

[NRAI2001]

You would not be board certified in those fields. That may introduce billing complications as well as turn off patients.

Would it be illegal though? Lets say you are board certified in IM, but do cardio in a foreign country, could u practice cardio here then? I know that you may have difficulty getting a job or joining another practice, but what if you started your own private practice?

 

[NRAI2001]

My post regarding plastic surgery, derm, and facial plastic/ENT was absolutely correct. As someone suggested, it is based on statistics and not hearsay.


As for plastic surgery, yes, it is preferable to go caribbean. Along with radiation oncology, this is is one of the fields that is essentially closed to DOs. Of the 576 current ACGME slots, 1 is filled by a DO while 38 are filled with FMGs. If you want to count on being that 0.2%, go ahead - you're a fool. There are only 3 AOA slots per year - that's what you'd be banking on. It could not be clearer.

.

Are those 38 spots that were filled intergrated spots or fellowships post residency? Were those 38 students true IMGs or US kids from off shore schools?

 

[(nicedream)]

Would it be illegal though? Lets say you are board certified in IM, but do cardio in a foreign country, could u practice cardio here then? I know that you may have difficulty getting a job or joining another practice, but what if you started your own private practice?

Pretty sure it would be legal. However, as a DO it would be difficult and complicated to train/practice in most foreign countries.

 

[(nicedream)]

Are those 38 spots that were filled intergrated spots or fellowships post residency? Were those 38 students true IMGs or US kids from off shore schools?

Those statistics include both integrated and nonintegrated, and does not discern between American IMGs and foreign IMGs. Regardless, I'm sure well over 1 was an American from a Carib school.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Why would this equate to such an obvious factor? Everyone knows that both carribean and DO schools are peoples 2nd choices. I would think that your performance in med school would matter more.

PS: I would rather go to a DO school (applying to them right now)(not applying to carrib. schools), but I am not one to bash carribean schools, and ignore the draw backs of DO schools. Both schools train good physicians and the top carribean schools provide good clinical years.

This is a very ignorant statement, but it's not surprising that you made such a comment, based on your previous posts.

DO was a first choice for many at my school.

 

[stookie]

Is there a huge difference between allopathic and osteopathic residencies?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Is there a huge difference between allopathic and osteopathic residencies?

There is no way to make a straight generalization. You'd have to narrow your question to a specific specialty.

There are equivalent residencies in many specialties, but depending on your area of interest, some ACGME residences are superior to AOA residencies.

 

[Dorkus Maximus]

This is a very ignorant statement, but it's not surprising that you made such a comment, based on your previous posts.

DO was a first choice for many at my school.

DO first choice here too!

 

[NRAI2001]

This is a very ignorant statement, but it's not surprising that you made such a comment, based on your previous posts.

DO was a first choice for many at my school.

Yea, your not the most unbiased person either.

 

[(nicedream)]

Yea, your not the most unbiased person either.

Still not good to make generalizations man. There are many reasons people sometimes choose DO schools over MD ones.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Still not good to make generalizations man. There are many reasons people sometimes choose DO schools over MD ones.

Be careful with making blanket statements.

Statements that discuss the average or majority are much different than those that use all or none.

 

[NRAI2001]

Be careful with making blanket statements.

Statements that discuss the average or majority are much different than those that use all or none.

Ok maybe I over generalized, i know not everyone in DO school went as a second choice, but a large percentage did.

I ll be honest, I am applying to DO schools and not to carrib. schools bc i think DO would be a better fit for me than carrib. but there are many US MDs schools that i would pick over many of the DO schools i applied to. I dont care about the DO or MD behind my name, but it is true that US MDs have more oppurtunities(spelling?) than do DOs. Though I do admit the more I learn of DO schools and the oppurtunities they are gaining have after graduation the more I am interested.

 

[PlasticMan]

My post regarding plastic surgery, derm, and facial plastic/ENT was absolutely correct. As someone suggested, it is based on statistics and not hearsay.

As I said in my other post, the moderate # of AOA derm and facial/ENT slots which are available to DOs (about 20/year) makes going the osteopathic route much preferrable to caribbean, as the caribbeans will be competing against top US MDs. As a DO applying to AOA spots, you are on equal footing with all applicants.

As for plastic surgery, yes, it is preferable to go caribbean. Along with radiation oncology, this is is one of the fields that is essentially closed to DOs. Of the 576 current ACGME slots, 1 is filled by a DO while 38 are filled with FMGs. If you want to count on being that 0.2%, go ahead - you're a fool. There are only 3 AOA slots per year - that's what you'd be banking on. It could not be clearer.

Someone asked what Facial Plastic/ENT is. ENT (Ear Nose Throat) is otolaryngology, and the training is also called Facial Plastic Surgery. It is essentialy Head/Neck Surgery. You can focus your practice on the ENT part (sinusitis etc) or facial plastic surgery. Residency programs also have different focus' on each.

When you speak of plastics spots, are you referring to integrated plastics residencies or plastics fellowship. If someone wanted to go the DO route, couldn't they just do Gen Surg residency followed by plastics fellowship??? From what I understand, this was the route for a long time anyway and integrated plastics residencies are somewhat new.

 

[NRAI2001]

When you speak of plastics spots, are you referring to integrated plastics residencies or plastics fellowship. If someone wanted to go the DO route, couldn't they just do Gen Surg residency followed by plastics fellowship??? From what I understand, this was the route for a long time anyway and integrated plastics residencies are somewhat new.

Is a plastics fellowship difficult to get? I think from what I heard it is, but not as difficult as an intergrated spot?

 

[Dr. MAXY]

and a lot of those people fail at those schools. I"m still not understanding why the thumbs down. was the guy lying when he implied that there are more plastics residency spots for FMGs than for DO's? I'm just confused cause he seemed to be backing up his opinion with some facts and i haven't seen anything counter to what he said.

Rendar5. You are confusing FMG and USFMG. The former are graduates from foreign countries like England, India, China etc. Some of these FMGs have completed residencies, and were top in the fields in the various countries. Some of them were even candidates for noble prize, others were program directors. Hence programs love these guys and they have a greater chance of getting into competitive fields. When I was at Hopkins on rotation, I saw a bunch of these guys. One guy was among China's best physicians.

However, USFMG, are US applicants who couldn't get into US schools and then traveled out of the country to attend med school (usually Caribbean). Hence these ones have decreased chances of getting into US residencies.

 

[Dr. MAXY]

When you speak of plastics spots, are you referring to integrated plastics residencies or plastics fellowship. If someone wanted to go the DO route, couldn't they just do Gen Surg residency followed by plastics fellowship??? From what I understand, this was the route for a long time anyway and integrated plastics residencies are somewhat new.

I can't believe all you guys keep confusing FMG and USFMG. The former are graduates from foreign countries like England, India, China, etc. Some of these FMGs have completed residencies, and were top in the fields in their various countries. Some of them were even candidates for noble prize, others were program directors. Hence programs love these guys and they have a greater chance of getting into competitive fields. When I was at Hopkins on rotation, I saw a bunch of these guys. One guy was among China's best physicians.
However, USFMG, are US applicants who couldn't get into US schools and then traveled out of the country to attend med school (usually Caribbean). Hence these ones have decreased chances of getting into US residencies.

Come on guys get you facts straight. FMG is NOT THE SAME AS USFMG ( Caribbean grad)

 

[PlasticMan]

I can't believe all you guys keep confusing FMG and USFMG. The former are graduates from foreign countries like England, India, China, etc. Some of these FMGs have completed residencies, and were top in the fields in their various countries. Some of them were even candidates for noble prize, others were program directors. Hence programs love these guys and they have a greater chance of getting into competitive fields. When I was at Hopkins on rotation, I saw a bunch of these guys. One guy was among China's best physicians.
However, USFMG, are US applicants who couldn't get into US schools and then traveled out of the country to attend med school (usually Caribbean). Hence these ones have decreased chances of getting into US residencies.

Come on guys get you facts straight. FMG is NOT THE SAME AS USFMG ( Caribbean grad)

How was I speaking of FMG and USFMG? LOL.

 

[Shinken]

I have a book about choosing medical specialties (published last year, 2004) and it has NRMP data on it.

For dermatology, it states that foreign-trained physicians and osteopathic physicians both had the same rate of successful applicants (3%).

For plastic surgery, it states that both groups also (!) had the same success rate (1.3%).

If the book's data is accurate, there's really no difference. Also, Dr. Maxy has a good point. There are foreign medical graduates and then there are foreign medical graduates.

 

[(nicedream)]

I have a book about choosing medical specialties (published last year, 2004) and it has NRMP data on it.

For dermatology, it states that foreign-trained physicians and osteopathic physicians both had the same rate of successful applicants (3%).

For plastic surgery, it states that both groups also (!) had the same success rate (1.3%).

If the book's data is accurate, there's really no difference. Also, Dr. Maxy has a good point. There are foreign medical graduates and then there are foreign medical graduates.

Could you post the data?

 

[(nicedream)]

When you speak of plastics spots, are you referring to integrated plastics residencies or plastics fellowship. If someone wanted to go the DO route, couldn't they just do Gen Surg residency followed by plastics fellowship??? From what I understand, this was the route for a long time anyway and integrated plastics residencies are somewhat new.

Those #'s I posted include both (1 DO in either integrated or fellowship).