if med school doesn't happen...which career is best?

[OSUdoc08]

Your right about the RN's and NP's, they never intended on medical school. Maybe some have what it takes, and I am sure many do not. PA applicants generally don't have the stats to back up an application to medical school, that is why they are applying to PA schools. I am sure there is a small percentage that simply just didn't want to go through medical school.

The generalizations continue.......is this an opinion of yours, or do you sit for a PA school admissions committee?

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[IDFTIGER]

Your right about the RN's and NP's, they never intended on medical school. Maybe some have what it takes, and I am sure many do not. PA applicants generally don't have the stats to back up an application to medical school, that is why they are applying to PA schools. I am sure there is a small percentage that simply just didn't want to go through medical school.

I'm currently in PA school, gonna finish soon. I got accepted right out of highschool to a very competitive PA program. I could have went premed right away and got in to med school, but for personal reasons I went the PA route. There were 36 spots for 500 applicants. You do the math. Currently, I have a 3.8 GPA, and PA school is very very very tough. Think about it, over 50% of med school shoved down your throat in 2-3 years. Im sure that with my experience as a PA and my GPA,( and MCAT which I will study for) I will have no problem getting into med school if I'll wish to continue, and I will have the "stats" to back it up. I have seen PA's who corrected attendings. PA's are not stupid or "lesser" health care providers. My professors are MD's and PA's, and all on equal footing in terms of knowledge and experience, and all have great respect for each other. Most of the time, patients can't even tell the difference between a doc and PA because the care they receive is, almost always, equal. So please do not belittle the PA profession, or people who go that route. Are there PA's who couldn't get into med school: Yes. However, most people chose that route for various reasons (personal, family, lifestyle etc.), other than not becoming a doc. Many PA programs are highly competitive, and PA school, take it from me, is no walk in the park. If you go below a certain GPA, you're out. When you get into the real world of medicine, no one will care if you have an MD or PA-C behind your name. No one will give you slack for anything. People will care about your abilities, in the real world, not your title. No one needs and MD who is incompetent, and same goes for a PA.

 

[Hardbody]

The generalizations continue.......is this an opinion of yours, or do you sit for a PA school admissions committee?

Please read post #15 and the attached link:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=298031

 

[OSUdoc08]

I'll pass. Intent can't be proven by a study.

 

[ocdoc]

I agree. Some med schools in the carribean take med students for 3 different classes, August, January and May. Look into www.valuemd.com

 

[tncekm]

Technically, it's true. The number of programs and available positions vs. applicants makes it way more competetive than med school.

Definitely. Maybe not the PA program, but the nursing program (and on the dental side, dental hygiene) are so ridiculously competitive its a joke. The prereqs are easier, and there is no MCAT, but I've never heard of medical schools having waitlists YEARS long like I've seen in nursing and similar fields (dental hygiene, etc).

My fiance was just accepted into a dental hygiene program. For her particular school there were 20 accepted of 600 applicants. This was relatively common for all of the RDH schools in So. Cal. One of the schools she applied to and got a "waitlist" letter saying she was elligible for a spot 3 years away! They were accepting people based on a first come first serve basis--of course if you met all prereqa with sufficient grades.

Of course, its so competitive b/c nobody in the right mind actually wants to do 13 years of elementary education, 4 years of college to get a BS/BA, 4 years of medical, then work horrible hours for up to 5 years as a resident, and then if you want to specialize into something like spinal surgery or cardiothoracic another few years of fellowship!!!

Admit it...we're all insane

 

[tncekm]

Think about it, over 50% of med school shoved down your throat in 2-3 years.

?? I'd like to see the info on this one.

PA's are not stupid

Nobody said they're stupid...and if they did, they're wrong.

or "lesser" health care providers.

By definition...they're "assitant" providers and I think you'd find that to be almost synonymous with what you're implying they aren't.

My professors are MD's and PA's, and all on equal footing in terms of knowledge and experience,

No. By default an MD/DO will have a greater breadth of knowledge

Most of the time, patients can't even tell the difference between a doc and PA because the care they receive is, almost always, equal.

But limited on the care that a PA can give.

Listen Bud, we understand being a PA requires hard work and intelligence. Nobody is trying to bash you, but you can't equate a PA to an MD or DO. That's ridiculous.

PA schools are not as competitive as other schools such as nursing or hygiene...at least not right now. And, based off of a link I saw above, their acceptance rate is at 2/3 vs. Medical School's 40%, not to mention the simple fact that the UG cirriculum is much more difficult, especially with the addition of the MCAT.

I would never bash a nurse, pa, etc. They do their job and the have their place in medicine...we need them! But, dont come in here all huffy puffy and defensive because someone said its easier to get into PA school...it is!

 

[Hardbody]

I agree. Some med schools in the carribean take med students for 3 different classes, August, January and May. Look into www.valuemd.com

I guess if you count the caribbean schools admission, then you have a strengthened arguement that med school is easier to get into than PA school. I didn't even think of the caribean schools when judging competitiveness.

 

[mastamark]

WOW, this is a huge and incorrect generalization.

People who are RN's, NP's, PA's, etc. aren't a bunch of people who couldn't get into medical school. Your perception that these "lesser" health professions are only in existence because of their failures is disturbing. Believe it or not, the majority of people in these professions never wanted to go to med school in the first place.

I agree 100% with ya on this one. Not everyone wants MD school. I don't think many NPs ever had the desire for med school. As far as PA goes I would guess a good 70% of them initially wanted MD or DO school. That's just a guess though, could be totally wrong here. While PA school is competitive, I still think Med schools have them beat in that category, just off of the fact that med school rejects do have an easier time for acceptance there. PA schools also show preference for those individuals with some kind of healthcare experience. While there are more medical schools than PA schools the sheer number of applicants to medical school is much larger.

I think there is a minority of the US population that even knows what a PA is.

 

[Hardbody]

I agree 100% with ya on this one. Not everyone wants MD school. I don't think many NPs ever had the desire for med school. As far as PA goes I would guess a good 70% of them initially wanted MD or DO school. That's just a guess though, could be totally wrong here. While PA school is competitive, I still think Med schools have them beat in that category, just off of the fact that med school rejects do have an easier time for acceptance there. PA schools also show preference for those individuals with some kind of healthcare experience. While there are more medical schools than PA schools the sheer number of applicants to medical school is much larger.

I think there is a minority of the US population that even knows what a PA is.

Thank you, this is just common sense.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Thank you, this is just common sense.

Common sense?

Not likely.....

 

[tncekm]

I know plenty of people who went into a PA/RN program who never planned on being a doctor. In fact, I can't think of one case where they failed to get into medical school and then went to those programs as an alternative.

That's a *****ic statement.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I know plenty of people who went into a PA/RN program who never planned on being a doctor. In fact, I can't think of one case where they failed to get into medical school and then went to those programs as an alternative.

That's a *****ic statement.

 

[OHMAN0125]

Technically, it's true. The number of programs and available positions vs. applicants makes it way more competetive than med school.

It's a self-selective bunch. THose that apply most likely would not have cut it in medical school. You cant just compare the number of programs with the number of applicants. It's like saying because there are way more applicants for Internal Medicine per spot as compared to Radiology, then IM is more competitive.

 

[OHMAN0125]

Ok correction,
I think PA school may be on the same level of DO medical schools, but no way allopathic schools. I goto an allopathic program with a PA program and there's no way the PA program is even close to the competitiveness. Ok...that's all I have to say.

Let the arguments continue.....lmao.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Ok correction,
I think PA school may be on the same level of DO medical schools, but no way allopathic schools. I goto an allopathic program with a PA program and there's no way the PA program is even close to the competitiveness. Ok...that's all I have to say.

Let the arguments continue.....lmao.

I'm not sure that we are talking about competitiveness of students within a program on this thread. You may know about this within your school.

We are instead talking about competitiveness to get into a program. You obviously wouldn't be familiar with the competitiveness of a non-MD program, since you aren't in them.

Thanks.

 

[Beau Geste]

It's a self-selective bunch. THose that apply most likely would not have cut it in medical school. You cant just compare the number of programs with the number of applicants. It's like saying because there are way more applicants for Internal Medicine per spot as compared to Radiology, then IM is more competitive.

Wow. I haven't looked at any of your other posts, but I hope you didn't put your foot in your mouth before writing them like you have with this one.

I can give you a great example of a successful nurse who went on to become a doctor (and is also still a nurse BTW). I can give you an example of a successful PA who went on to become a doctor. Being a physician, one probably holds the most responsibility in his/her job (not true with all docs, but most in the health field), so I can see why so many aspire to become physicians.

But - and try and wrap your brain around this now - some ACTUALLY decide they would like to be a nurse or PA because they are interested in it and don't really WANT to be a doctor and have to deal with med school and being on-call and so on, and do just as well in the pre-reqs as pre-meds. I know, I know, hard to believe, right? (sarcasm here)

Sure, some would not have cut it in med school, and some find out IN med school that they can't cut it. Unfortunately you don't really have the data to back up your statement of a pre-nursing student not being able to cut it in med school.

Oh, and DO = MD (at least in the real world), get it? Good.

 

[OHMAN0125]

Wow. I haven't looked at any of your other posts, but I hope you didn't put your foot in your mouth before writing them like you have with this one.

I can give you a great example of a successful nurse who went on to become a doctor (and is also still a nurse BTW). I can give you an example of a successful PA who went on to become a doctor. Being a physician, one probably holds the most responsibility in his/her job (not true with all docs, but most in the health field), so I can see why so many aspire to become physicians.

But - and try and wrap your brain around this now - some ACTUALLY decide they would like to be a nurse or PA because they are interested in it and don't really WANT to be a doctor and have to deal with med school and being on-call and so on, and do just as well in the pre-reqs as pre-meds. I know, I know, hard to believe, right? (sarcasm here)

Sure, some would not have cut it in med school, and some find out IN med school that they can't cut it. Unfortunately you don't really have the data to back up your statement of a pre-nursing student not being able to cut it in med school.

Oh, and DO = MD (at least in the real world), get it? Good.

You sure are funny. I never said anything about nurses or PAs becoming physicians. I was talking about the competitiveness of getting into a program. And yes i know DO=MD, I have a DO professor as well, one of the nicest faculty members (orthopedic surgeon also). I was just SAYING (make sure to read now) that to get into a DO program MAYBE the same level of competitiveness as PA. BUT I KNOW and I DON"T THINK YOU CAN ARGUE THAT MOST MD PROGRAMS ARE HARDER TO GET INTO. JEEZ, WHY ARE YOU SO F**** DEFENSIVE.
And OSUDoc....u misunderstood my post....i wrote it fast...i hope this post clears it up.

 

[Beau Geste]

You sure are funny. I never said anything about nurses or PAs becoming physicians. I was talking about the competitiveness of getting into a program. And yes i know DO=MD, I have a DO professor as well, one of the nicest faculty members (orthopedic surgeon also). I was just SAYING (make sure to read now) that to get into a DO program MAYBE the same level of competitiveness as PA. BUT I KNOW and I DON"T THINK YOU CAN ARGUE THAT MOST MD PROGRAMS ARE HARDER TO GET INTO. JEEZ, WHY ARE YOU SO F**** DEFENSIVE.
And OSUDoc....u misunderstood my post....i wrote it fast...i hope this post clears it up.

Hmmm.....

your post seemed to put down those in allied health fields, as if they're not smart enough or good enough to hack it in med school, as well as DOs.

And defensive people tend to swear

 

[OHMAN0125]

Hmmm.....

your post seemed to put down those in allied health fields, as if they're not smart enough or good enough to hack it in med school, as well as DOs.

And defensive people tend to swear

Well guess what? You were wrong about my post. You analyzed it wrong. I have nothing against allied health professions. Stop assuming.

 

[OSUdoc08]

You sure are funny. I never said anything about nurses or PAs becoming physicians. I was talking about the competitiveness of getting into a program. And yes i know DO=MD, I have a DO professor as well, one of the nicest faculty members (orthopedic surgeon also). I was just SAYING (make sure to read now) that to get into a DO program MAYBE the same level of competitiveness as PA. BUT I KNOW and I DON"T THINK YOU CAN ARGUE THAT MOST MD PROGRAMS ARE HARDER TO GET INTO. JEEZ, WHY ARE YOU SO F**** DEFENSIVE.
And OSUDoc....u misunderstood my post....i wrote it fast...i hope this post clears it up.

Irony.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Think about it, over 50% of med school shoved down your throat in 2-3 years. Im sure that with my experience as a PA and my GPA,( and MCAT which I will study for)

This is the biggest load of **** Ive ever heard. There is a PA school at my school. The PA students do not go anywhere near the level of detail we go into.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Ok correction,
I think PA school may be on the same level of DO medical schools, but no way allopathic schools. I goto an allopathic program with a PA program and there's no way the PA program is even close to the competitiveness. Ok...that's all I have to say.

Let the arguments continue.....lmao.

No one is going to argue with you.

You very clearly haven't a clue.

Also, congrats on going to an allopathic school! Thats SOOOOO awesome!!!!!!

 

[OSUdoc08]

This is the biggest load of **** Ive ever heard. There is a PA school at my school. The PA students do not go anywhere near the level of detail we go into.

Thanks for your enlightening post. In a family practice setting or even in an emergency department setting, for example, PA's, NP's, MD's, and DO's do the exact same thing 95% of the time.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Thanks for your enlightening post. In a family practice setting or even in an emergency department setting, for example, PA's, NP's, MD's, and DO's do the exact same thing 95% of the time.

Im talking about in school.


I havent the foggiest idea about in practice.

Im glad you were englightened by fact.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

If I don't get into med school, I'll just likely become an airline pilot.

 

[Beau Geste]

Well guess what? You were wrong about my post. You analyzed it wrong. I have nothing against allied health professions. Stop assuming.

You poor thing. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

This is a *typed* forum - without the benefit of voice + vocal inflection, etc. so people misunderstand others all the time here.

You don't have to get uptight about it.

 

[mastamark]

I am not bashing any of the allied health fields, I have much respect for them. In fact my wife is in a NP program here in Chicago. I was only challenging the notion that PA school admissions are more competitive than med-school admissions. I have a hard time believing that; however I can only comment on instances that I know of. I don't have actual stats. Arguing over this is actually pretty silly since there really is no way of gauging this subject at this time.