1. Download free Tapatalk for iPhone or Tapatalk for Android for your phone and follow the SDN forums with push notifications.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

Interview Feedback: Visit Interview Feedback to view and submit interview information.

Interviewing Masterclass: Free masterclass on interviewing from SDN and Medical College of Georgia

Dismiss Notice
Hey Texans—join us for a DFW meetup! Click here to learn more.

If med schools did this, I'd bet they produce better doctors

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by 1Path, May 16, 2007.

  1. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    1) Set a minimum age at matriculation at 25

    2) Require a 1 year volunteer experience in a rural or inner city health clinic.
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. Funky

    Funky This space is for sale
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    3,660
    Likes Received:
    5
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I believe you're asking for a flamewar.
     
  4. TMP-SMX

    TMP-SMX Senior Member
    Moderator Emeritus Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,624
    Likes Received:
    73
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    How can you measure a person's maturity level based purely on an arbitrary cutoff of 25? Give me a break. They are trying to increase the numbers of physicians coming out of medical school not decrease it. What is everyone straight out of undergrad going to do for 3 years? No health insurance, part time jobs unless an individual majors in engineering or some kind of applied science, and it would remove the possibility for BS/MD programs keeping some of the brighter students at the same insitution. I agree it would help to have older applicants that have seen more, but there aren't that many. Nontrads are increasing in number and are being accepted, but they can't make up the whole class.

    Anyway, volunteering is essentially required now. It's nice to have a rural or inner city focus, but not everyone can easily volunteer for a year long if they have to pay their way through school while sustaining certain grades.
     
  5. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I think they would also get fewer doctors. That would have definitely pushed me to NP or PA.

    Some of us women want to have kids before we're 30.
     
  6. CubanDoc

    CubanDoc Moving to G'ville soon
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    CubanDoc grabs.....
    chair, popcorn, soda and dark glasses for Firework Display :smuggrin:
     
  7. IWant2BeADoctor

    IWant2BeADoctor License to Matriculate
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Are you just saying this because you got a late start in Medicine?:sleep: :idea:

    A minimum age limit makes no sense, especially one as high as 25. The only thing that should be considered in Medical Admissions is ability and motivation.

    I think that Sho Yano kid(12year old who got accepted into the Pritzker School of Medicine MD/PHD Program) is a great example of age not being important if you have what it takes.
     
  8. pennybridge

    pennybridge Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    appropriate avatar
     
  9. premeddick

    premeddick Junior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah and you would get a lot more rich kids who could afford to volunteer for a year. Its hard to volunteer full time for a year if you need a job to pay for health insurance, car payments, car insurance, gas, rent, utilities, applications... Oh and some of us live no where near farms or conventional inner cities.
     
  10. RockShox

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Heres what I think of this comment :barf:

    Hahaha Oh man it great to know that being 25 is now the new 40!!:laugh: :laugh: The average age of my class was 25. I guess thats so old we must be nontrad:rolleyes: I am going to get all my older applicant classmates together and eat jello and go watch a "talkie".
     
  11. pennybridge

    pennybridge Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    I bet all the "traditional" students ignore your "keep off the grass" sign and trample your lawn daily. After the talkie will there be jitterbugging? Maybe you guys could start a student group to share tips and tricks for covering your furniture in clear plastic :thumbup:

    geezer.
     
  12. soco

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I was thinking the exact opposite:

    1)Set a maximum age limit of 25.

    Why spend government money on people who will be around for less time?
    I guess you're the person that goes to the grocery and gets the milk with an expiration date one day from now rather than a couple weeks from now. I never understood that.

    2)I think doctors should be well versed in hospitals and health care. I don't see how spending a year in a soup kitchen will help doctors practice. Personally, I would rather my doctor understand biochemistry rather than how to make a beef stew.
     
  13. RockShox

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Medical Student
    :laugh: :laugh:


    You made me laugh! :) It just so funny hearing 25 mentioned as a nontrad when the average age nationally for matriculated medical school freshman is 24.16 years old. That extra year is like a 1000.
     
  14. Jacks Mannequin

    Jacks Mannequin if you're into it
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    669
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Yea, I bet they'd also produce better docs if med school was 8 years instead of 4 and residencies were twice as long. Just because it would work doesn't mean it's rational.
     
  15. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    15,489
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Average maybe that but I suspect the median is closer to 22. Check the MSAR chart.
     
  16. Noeljan

    Noeljan Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,531
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    :thumbup:
    :laugh: and doctors should have to give up 95% of their salary. I mean come on people no one has a right to get more than 10,000 a year to live off of. Seriously, if you are going into medicine just because you want to put food on your table you are a bad bad person and don't deserve a seat in med school!!!!!!!:laugh: :laugh:
     
  17. Mr. Belding

    Mr. Belding The Dude abides
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    19
    Who does that?

    Soup kitchen? I thought we were doing inner city health clinics? If not, then I am definitely going to agree with you. Requiring that doctors know how to make a mean beef stew seems a little silly.

    Are you pregnant?
     
  18. IWant2BeADoctor

    IWant2BeADoctor License to Matriculate
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    They should make Medical Education more like that of Western Europe. That is letting students start their Medical Education straight out of High School. I don't see why 4 years of undergrad is necessary. And one can hardly argue that Western European system produces inferior Doctors.

    Medical training being as long as it is should start as early as possible.
     
  19. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    A late start is better than no start. But I'm planning to start in my early 40's which is FAR from age 25. A "late" start would be 30.;)

    No it's more because there's something to be said about more life experience.

    I guess compassion has no meaning to you?:confused:

    I'd bet if I asked any of the doctors I work with how many pyruvate molecules are produced form the metabolism of glucose they couldn't tell me.:laugh:

    Good point, but I seriously doubt you'd get more rich kids because so many of the "rich kids" I go to school with would rather burn their Manolo's and porches than venture over to the 'hood.:laugh:
     
  20. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Yeah but there would have to be a lot of outs along the way. I dunno what the attrition rate is in Europe but if we let all the 18 year old 'pre-meds' in medical school we'd have a lot of problems.
     
  21. Davjc2009

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical

    Fraternity Pledges doing the "gallon challenge"....
    ...Or so I've heard...
     
  22. Mr. Belding

    Mr. Belding The Dude abides
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    19
    .
     
    #21 Mr. Belding, May 16, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  23. soco

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Alright, you caught me.
     
  24. RockShox

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Medical Student
    :rolleyes:

    http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2006/2006age.htm

    Sure it says mean...and with like 17,000 matriculants I am sure its a pretty damn standard bell. But come on nontrad is like 30.
     
  25. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Final Countdown
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    15,489
    Likes Received:
    1,868
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I can with confidence say the distribution is definitely not a standard bell. I can't post the MSAR picture due to copyright but the peak is thin at 22 and has a right tail.

    Edit: and traditional to me would be applying during junior or senior year of college for entering directly into medical school or a single year off. My personal definition FWIW.
     
  26. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    Maybe fewer women docs which I don't think would be too bad a thing to have happen in medicine. These days, you have a good portion of women docs not working at all, so maybe those folks would get weeded out early in the process.

    As for having all your kids before your 30? Good luck with that unless N=1.
     
  27. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Hmm you're a troll. But I'll bite.

    1) Work on your reading comprehension. Who said have all my kids before 30. I said have kids...as in start. When you have your first child can have a significant impact on how successful later pregnancies are.

    2) I have never met a female doctor who just completely stopped working. Ever. Most can't afford to. A lot work part-time, yes. But babbling off ridiculously incorrect statistics just makes you look even more ignorant than you already sound.
     
  28. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    Well dam. You either need a midol or a beer. I'm guessing midol.:)
     
  29. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Chocolate will suffice. But thanks for the concern;)
     
  30. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    !) Please quote where the statistics. 2) It doens't take being a *itch to have a debate does it? The name calling is just so lame.
     
  31. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I wasn't even rude...you must be awfully sensitive.

    And you're trying way too hard to bait me.

    Sorry, sweetheart. You're trying to pick a fight with the least feminist woman in the country - its not going to work. If it were possible to live on a single income - I would totally be married with kids and a stay at home mom right now. Go find another woman to irk.
     
  32. IWant2BeADoctor

    IWant2BeADoctor License to Matriculate
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    The drop out rates are comparable to that of US Medical schools. Simply because admissions are as competitive as they are here. Except their students come fresh out of High School.
     
  33. 63768

    63768 Guest
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,202
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Medical Student
    stirrin up the pot, are we?

    while i agree med students should be more experienced and more mature, i doubt a min age of 25 will weed out even 50% of the problem. maybe preferential treatment can be given to those who have experience but i'd hardly say that's fair.
     
  34. cnoevil

    cnoevil good with kids
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    bull****...that kid is a joke. can you imagine him doing a female exam at the age of 15?
     
  35. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Yeah, but I know a lot of really intelligent, really gungho premeds in high school. That didn't make it by the end of college. Just seems like the attrition rate would be higher. But I guess not.

    Sounds like an idea to me then.
     
  36. Davjc2009

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    286
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical

    No, you drink it in less than an hour.
    Strong Bones :D
     
  37. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    He was MD/PhD - he will be 17/18 before he ever gets to rotations.
     
  38. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    Getting called a troll for presenting a different point of view is highly irritating. Maybe I need a midol!:laugh:
    Another good point. I honestly think age 30 is better but I felt the need to be more realistic.
     
  39. crimsonkid85

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    235
    Status:
    MD/PhD Student
    allowing older applicants into med school who have demonstrated their commitment to medicine is one thing. thinking that 'life experience' makes you a better doctor is another. 'life experience' doesn't make you a better doctor. 'medical experience' makes you a better doctor. and no, standing behind a doctor and watching what they do without ANY sort of medical knowledge (aka shadowing) does not make you a better doctor.
     
  40. cnoevil

    cnoevil good with kids
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    either way assuming you are female, would you like a 17 yr old male checking you out with a speculum?
     
  41. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Haha. I hadn't even edited my post to add the troll comment at that point. You must be really sensitive. Poor thing. I take it back, wouldn't want to damage a fragile ego.
     
  42. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    If he's a doctor and knows what he's doing - couldn't care less.
     
  43. crimsonkid85

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    235
    Status:
    MD/PhD Student
    if he ACTS like a 17 yo it's one thing. if he ACTS like a 35 year old, i don't see what's the problem. given that he got into med school at such a young age, i don't think he acts like a 17 year old.
     
  44. pennybridge

    pennybridge Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    i think we can be friends.
     
  45. RockShox

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Keep this in mind premeds when anyone mentions tiny little pictures where they think they see a right tail and someone else posts a link to actual data for the last 15 years go with the data.

    Here is a link that shows that the mean was 23.7-23.8 from 1992-2001 and then shows that the mean was 22-23 over those years.

    http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/archive/famg122001a.htm

    You must have the vision of a cyborg to see a right shift on a curve with 16,000 data points and a mean and median that are less than a standard deviation apart.

    Lest I spent too much time. Notice that the 25th percentile age was 22! This means that 75% of the data points were over 22! Which would be the age you would be if you did apply the junior year of your undergraduate.

    Now its possible that the 2003-2006 data has a increasing mean and a decreasing median. But its also possible that Anna Nicole was really a 50 New Jersey man named Frank. The trend for the last 15 years has been toward increasing mean and median age.

    I return to the allopathic forum.
     
  46. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    Life experience not only makes you a better doctor, if you use the experiences wisely, it makes you a better human being. IMHO, it's about being able to relate somewhat to what people are dealing with.
    Shadowing a doctor who serves the poor is about many things including teaching compassion for those who are less fortunate. Not learning medical procedures. That's what med school/residency is for.
     
  47. 1Path

    1Path Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    4
    What do you expect. This was the second time today I was called a troll on SDN.:laugh::laugh: :laugh:
     
  48. pennybridge

    pennybridge Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    :confused: that doesn't sound gay at all....
     
  49. alwaysaangel

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    36
    MDApps:
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    So you preemtively added it to my post? You are really sensitive!

    But there are a lot of trolls on SDN - not too hard to get called one.
     
  50. IWant2BeADoctor

    IWant2BeADoctor License to Matriculate
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    Where are you getting your information from? It seemslike this is coming from the top of your head.:idea: So instead of working their busy making babies and that MD degree is somewhere in their closet collecting dust.

    You can't have your kids before 30. And your speaking from experience?

    As for me I've got no problem with Female Doctors. I mean who would I got to if I needed a Rectal Exam?:D The last thing I want is a guy sticking his finger up my Anus.:scared:
     
  51. pennybridge

    pennybridge Membership Revoked
    Removed

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    0
    i demand sources supporting this wild claim!
     

Share This Page