If psych is becoming more competitive then...

[Yadster101]

If specialties that were previously noncompetitive, psych, im, fm, etc. are becoming more competitive then does that mean that competitive fields like derm, plastics, ortho, will become more easily attainable? Naturally if competitive applicants are swinging towards fields like psych then doesn't that mean there won't be as many people applying to things like derm?

On a side note, is psych as "academically rigorous" as derm? Since derms had such high board scores I always assumed that becoming a dermatologist required a great deal of intelligence. I'm NOT saying psych isn't academically rigorous but we've all heard of people that had low board scores/low class ranking that successfully completed their psych residencies. Could someone with a 205 Step 1/bottom 5% class rank, complete a derm residency?

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[Goro]

No. It means more moderately competitive fields like Neuro, Gas and Rads are becoming easier to get into.

The Program Director's report for 2016 shows you that for the uber specialties, they won't even look at you if your Step I is below 240.

If specialties that were previously noncompetitive, psych, im, fm, etc. are becoming more competitive then does that mean that competitive fields like derm, plastics, ortho, will become more easily attainable? Naturally if competitive applicants are swinging towards fields like psych then doesn't that mean there won't be as many people applying to things like derm?

On a side note, is psych as "academically rigorous" as derm? Since derms had such high board scores I always assumed that becoming a dermatologist required a great deal of intelligence. I'm NOT saying psych isn't academically rigorous but we've all heard of people that had low board scores/low class ranking that successfully completed their psych residencies. Could someone with a 205 Step 1/bottom 5% class rank, complete a derm residency?

 

[OMS398563]

If specialties that were previously noncompetitive, psych, im, fm, etc. are becoming more competitive then does that mean that competitive fields like derm, plastics, ortho, will become more easily attainable? Naturally if competitive applicants are swinging towards fields like psych then doesn't that mean there won't be as many people applying to things like derm?

On a side note, is psych as "academically rigorous" as derm? Since derms had such high board scores I always assumed that becoming a dermatologist required a great deal of intelligence. I'm NOT saying psych isn't academically rigorous but we've all heard of people that had low board scores/low class ranking that successfully completed their psych residencies. Could someone with a 205 Step 1/bottom 5% class rank, complete a derm residency?

Let's be honest for a minute. Competitive specialities correlate with money and or lifestyle more than difficulty. If shoveling manure was 9 to 5 and payed 750k per year medical students would be publishing on it, talking about their passion for it, and it would require a 260 step 1 just to interview for it

 

[QualityProcess]

Let's be honest for a minute. Competitive specialities correlate with money and or lifestyle more than difficulty. If shoveling manure was 9 to 5 and payed 750k per year medical students would be publishing on it, talking about their passion for it, and it would require a 260 step 1 just to interview for it

GI is pretty competitive

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

GI is pretty competitive

Da da tsssssss


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[OMS398563]

Well played sir. Well played.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If specialties that were previously noncompetitive, psych, im, fm, etc. are becoming more competitive then does that mean that competitive fields like derm, plastics, ortho, will become more easily attainable? Naturally if competitive applicants are swinging towards fields like psych then doesn't that mean there won't be as many people applying to things like derm?

On a side note, is psych as "academically rigorous" as derm? Since derms had such high board scores I always assumed that becoming a dermatologist required a great deal of intelligence. I'm NOT saying psych isn't academically rigorous but we've all heard of people that had low board scores/low class ranking that successfully completed their psych residencies. Could someone with a 205 Step 1/bottom 5% class rank, complete a derm residency?

"Academic rigor" had nothing to do with competitiveness. Yes someone wth a 205 step 1 and bottom 5% could complete a derm residency.

 

[SLC]

The old joke about dermatology, something about "if it's wet, make it dry and if it's dry make it wet...and put a topical steroid on it" isn't all that far off. Derm is competitive because it's a friggin sweet gig.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The old joke about dermatology, something about "if it's wet, make it dry and if it's dry make it wet...and put a topical steroid on it" isn't all that far off. Derm is competitive because it's a friggin sweet gig.

Call me a bit crude for saying this, but do we as a society create an issue when we send very talented people into a field that probably doesn't really need that level of aptitude? I mean I've never done skin pathology so possibly I'm completely and utterly off my **** right now, but when I see MD/PhDs popping my cysts or checking my skin for weird growth I cannot help but feel like they'd be potentially better for other fields honestly.

 

[QualityProcess]

the derm PD at Broward health did IM-->rheum-->derm-->dermatopathology. his consult notes are tomes. do not doubt the differential

also, part of being smart and working hard is you get to do whatever the f you want and you don't have to answer to critics. i would never fault a brilliant md/phd for deciding that making a half mil and spending every night and weekend with their kids was a better use of their time than... whatever smart people are supposed to do

 

[SLC]

the derm PD at Broward health did IM-->rheum-->derm-->dermatopathology. his consult notes are tomes. do not doubt the differential

also, part of being smart and working hard is you get to do whatever the f you want and you don't have to answer to critics. i would never fault a brilliant md/phd for deciding that making a half mil and spending every night and weekend with their kids was a better use of their time than... whatever smart people are supposed to do

Nailed it!

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Jesus christ. Only on SDN will we have more threads like this. Psych is NOT competitive dude. IT will not be for another 5-10 years IF THAT.

It takes a special person to do psych. You are dealing with MENTAL ILLNESS... something we do not know a lot about at the time. IT is very emotionally taxing.

All the SDN geeks who like freaking out and think that it is an easy field to get into does not mean it will be easy to practice.

SMH at this thread.

 

[Peach Newport]

Call me a bit crude for saying this, but do we as a society create an issue when we send very talented people into a field that probably doesn't really need that level of aptitude? I mean I've never done skin pathology so possibly I'm completely and utterly off my **** right now, but when I see MD/PhDs popping my cysts or checking my skin for weird growth I cannot help but feel like they'd be potentially better for other fields honestly.

I remember hearing a quote by some bigshot doctor who said something like "Dermatology is how we turn our smartest medical students into our most useless doctors."

 

[W19]

Jesus christ. Only on SDN will we have more threads like this. Psych is NOT competitive dude. IT will not be for another 5-10 years IF THAT.

It takes a special person to do psych. You are dealing with MENTAL ILLNESS... something we do not know a lot about at the time. IT is very emotionally taxing.

All the SDN geeks who like freaking out and think that it is an easy field to get into does not mean it will be easy to practice.

SMH at this thread.

It's getting competitive now and that trend will continue... I will not be shocked to see close to ~230 average step 1 for psych in the 'charting the outcomes' that will be out in Sept 2018.

If you are dead set on psych and your step 1 <220, you should definitely have a back up plan (FM/peds/IM)...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It's getting competitive now and that trend will continue... I will not be shocked to see close to ~230 average step 1 for psych in the 'charting the outcomes' that will be out in Sept 2018.

If you are dead set on psych and your step 1 <220, you should definitely have a back up plan (FM/peds/IM)...

W19, stop. Seriously.

They've discussed this in detail on the psych board already. Psych hasn't gotten anymore competitive or gained significantly more than even FM. The difference is that you need to not be a tool and actually be interested in working with mentally ill people. Many ppl who apply to psych have applications that either have utterly no evidence that they are interested in psych or neuro or frankly are tools.

 

[Moose A Moose]

All specialties are raising the bar. Its been giving program directors a headache to pick and choose applicants- it's causing them to broaden their selection criteria well beyond board scores to select a "quality" resident. You can research all of this for yourself.

All specialties are academically rigorous, it's just some have a better schedule- and attending salary- than others, i.e.: derm. Slots in derm, NS, ortho, etc will always be that much more difficult to attain.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

i mean even OMT residencies are getting competitive , you dont have to be the best just work harder than the competition and fall somewhere in the middle

 

[W19]

@Drrrrrr. Celty Psych had a 96+% match rate in 2014, now it's just 90%. It might be around 82-84% in 2018... When I started med school, 2 people in my class had some interest in psych, now it's more than 6...

 

[W19]

The bottom IM programs are not competitive... US students with <200 step1 and with failed classes are still able to match into these programs

I looked at an IM program in the south the other day and there isn't a US student (MD/DO) in that program in all 3 classes... Is that bias against US students? or these programs can't attract US students. ~30 residents and there isn't one US student. Seriously!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

@Drrrrrr. Celty Psych had a 96+% match rate in 2014, now it's just 90%. It might be around 82-84% in 2018... When I started med school, 2 people in my class had some interest in psych, now it's more than 6...

FM gained almost as many points on the usmle average as psych. Everything is becoming more competitive. If your goal is to do psych in a major city then yes, you probably will need to be scoring higher. If you just want to do psych then it's probably still open.
If not then, well hope most of the AOA psych programs are retained then...

But the point is many programs I've looked at are almost half IMG and DO. If it gets competitive it'll mainly close the train for IMGs.

 

[W19]

@Drrrrrr. Celty These figures represent US seniors--not IMG and independent applicants...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

@Drrrrrr. Celty These figures represent US seniors--not IMG and independent applicants...

Yes? For DOs over 80% match with a 520 or higher which is the average on the COMLEX. Almost all Psych programs take COMLEX.

But you missed the point. Likewise when half of those 6 ppl take their psych rotation 3rd year and they find out that in-patient psych isn't for them, it'll be back to normal.

 

[hallowmann]

FM gained almost as many points on the usmle average as psych. Everything is becoming more competitive. If your goal is to do psych in a major city then yes, you probably will need to be scoring higher. If you just want to do psych then it's probably still open.
If not then, well hope most of the AOA psych programs are retained then...

But the point is many programs I've looked at are almost half IMG and DO. If it gets competitive it'll mainly close the train for IMGs.

Yeah it's definitely fine. There is a surge in interest which pretty much means you have to apply to and rank more programs than you have in the past. That's just how it is. It's like that in a lot of specialties. It's still doable.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yeah it's definitely fine. There is a surge in interest which pretty much means you have to apply to and rank more programs than you have in the past. That's just how it is. It's like that in a lot of specialties. It's still doable.

Yah, I imagine that by the time I apply though I'll need to send out 50 apps. Then again not as bad as some ACGME EM ppl who apply to upwards of 80.

 

[W19]

Yah, I imagine that by the time I apply though I'll need to send out 50 apps. Then again not as bad as some ACGME EM ppl who apply to upwards of 80.

A senior at my school sent out ~ 50 applications... and got only 5 iis... step 1 ~210.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

A senior at my school sent out ~ 50 applications... and got only 5 iis... step 1 ~210.

It's not my fault they only applied to university programs or programs in the West or East coast. I can think of about 20 programs that are majority IMG or DO. Psych's competitiveness is entirely based on fit. If you don't fit into that program you move on until you find the right one.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

A senior at my school sent out ~ 50 applications... and got only 5 iis... step 1 ~210.

But the question is did he match?

 

[W19]

But the question is did he match?

He applies this year...

 

[Postictal Raiden]

IMO, no one should apply to more than 30 programs. 10 "dreamy" but attainable, 10 on par of applicant's stats, and 10 "safety net".

What the point of applying to 100 programs where half of which are out of reach? It's a total waste of money and efforts.

Applying strategically >>> Applying broadly

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

He applies this year...

He'll match.

Psych is a backup for a lot of people.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

He'll match.

Psych is a backup for a lot of people.

There's actually some discussion on the topic of increased back up applicants in the psych forum. Personally I think the increased application mass will mainly lead to a larger soap/scramble this year.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

There's actually some discussion on the topic of increased back up applicants in the psych forum. Personally I think the increased application mass will mainly lead to a larger soap/scramble this year.

Is there an MD scramble after the SOAP?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Is there an MD scramble after the SOAP?

I think it's just the SOAP.

 

[SLC]

Is there an MD scramble after the SOAP?

Yes, if there's anything left (usually it's pretty much just surgery prelims) they can remain open and it goes back to a scramble type setup.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

Yes, if there's anything left (usually it's pretty much just surgery prelims) they can remain open and it goes back to a scramble type setup.

what do you do with Surg Prelim ? I thought those years dont really count towards anything .

 

[SLC]

what do you do with Surg Prelim ? I thought those years dont really count towards anything .

You can transition nicely into an anesthesia program, or match to a gen surg program to finish the training (had a friend who did just this.).

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

You can transition nicely into an anesthesia program, or match to a gen surg program to finish the training (had a friend who did just this.).

Hmm sounds like an ideal back up plan, but how often do people actually match to the program they where doing prelim for ?

 

[SLC]

Hmm sounds like an ideal back up plan, but how often do people actually match to the program they where doing prelim for ?

I don't have that data, but I gotta think the chances would be decent if you did really well. Of course that would depend on a PGY-2 spot in the program being available too. Someone's probably going to have to quit or get fired for that to happen.

If you go into Anesthesia (or another surgically oriented field), and can find an open PGY-2 spot, you can pretty much just slide right in without missing a beat.