If you are planning on kids during med school

[pathdr2b]

I'm hoping you're referring to perhaps a specific situation that you know on a first hand basis, or maybe just reacting to the general malaise concentrated in the original post. I am 31. My children are 12, 8, and 3. I was a single parent for about half the time I've clocked as a parent. But, wait: DO NOT feel sorry for my kids. Their mother happens to be a highly motivated, determined pre-med with lofty goals and dreams to spare. Yeah, I just came off a semester of fourteen hour days while taking a full load and studying for the MCAT. Dinner was bought more often than it was cooked, and I studied while they watched Spongebob Squarepants.

However, we do have a lot of fun together, talking about what EACH of us learned in school on a given day. I work hard, and they see that. I have put off studying for important tests to go to the zoo. I've studied biochem at Chuck E. Cheese's. My kids would rather spend an average day with me than their dad and stepmom, who go to work around the family's schedule, i.e. someone is home when kids get off the bus, they don't attend day care, etc. They have all the time in the world to spend with them.

Bottom line: Whatever time I have with them, I make it count. I'm a good role model, and I give lots of love. They won't remember how many hours I wasn't there; they'll remember every minute I was.

Check out the forum in MCAT: any old pre-meds out there? You'll find a lot of people who have made tough decisions regarding this, and have a positive outlook on the situation. It's not all dismal

Bravo!! Now THAT"S what I'm talkin' bout' !!!!!

This reminds me that one day at the school bus stop, one little girl was telling my daughter that she was so lucky she didn't have to go to a filthy daycare center because her Mommy stayed at home ( a conversation she OBVIOUSLY heard her parents have). I was so proud when my daughter responded, "Well my Mommy is a Scientist and one day she's going to be a Doctor and help people who are very sick".

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[biodork444]

I feel sorry for the kids in such situation. I hope the parents more than make up for it later, otherwise sounds like a sociopath in the making. Day care center really are not a substitute for a child's mother.

You meant daycare isn't a substitute for a child's parent, didn't you? I hope so.

However, just so people know, there are lots of benefits from putting a child in daycare like the increased amount of social interaction. I have a lot of family around, but as a woman, I want my future children to respect womens right to work even though they have been given a certain biological responsbility. I do not want to have a son who thinks that his career is more important than his wife's career and I don;t want to have a daughter who feels like she has to stay home. Women should be able to make that choice and that there is not a greater benefit for a child whether it is the mother or the father staying home. I am going to medical school and my fiance (husband in 12 days) is the VP of a municipal finace company (he is 6 years older), I do not ever want to hear that my career is less important b/c i am a woman and that my hard work means less. Men should start thinking about the parents as the primary care givers of children, not the mother.
I feel bad for women, because they are still living with this stereotypical nonsense about what a good mother should be. It is truly unfortunate.

 

[lessismoe]

The higest level I've ever seen in a published paper on maternal age and down syndrome was 180/1000 which is FAR from the 40% rate you posted above. Furthermore, some studies indicate that minorities show LOWER rates of down syndrome than non-whites and I've seen lower by as much as 50% athough this is debatable.

The rate reported is per 10,000 births, I believe.

But about lower rates in non-whites, I found a study done in Hawaii that supports that:

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/105560157/HTMLSTART

That one says that the rate of Down's Syndrome for white women over age 40 is 172.8 per 10,000 births. It has breakdowns of Down's incidence for a couple of races, really interesting.

 

[lessismoe]

Ok, so I was interested, and I found this great article. You can look up the incidence of birth defects by state, and a lot of states reported the incidence of Down's by maternal age.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltext/105560173/PDFSTART

 

[jennie 21]

My feeling about having kids is that I want to have them by my early 30's. I'm 22 now, my fiance and I are both first-year med students and getting married next month. I'll graduate med school when I'm 25, do an internal medicine residency, be done by 28, and have kids in the next few years after that. I want to stay home with my kids when they're small (working 1-2 days a week to keep my skills up) which is why I'm waiting until I'm done with residency. I feel fortunate to have that option to wait till after residency, women who start later have to choose between having kids during med school/residency or trying to have them later in their mid to late 30's or 40's, which is statistically much riskier. One third of women ages 35-39 are infertile, meaning they can't conceive on their own within a year...true, that means two-thirds of them aren't infertile but I wouldn't want to take a chance on being in that one-third. Having children is such an important thing to me and I can't imagine much worse than finding out that I couldn't have them, because I had waited too long. It doesn't seem fair that women's fertility window is so much shorter than men's and that we have to compromise our careers because of it, but ignoring the facts doesn't make them go away. So many women just assume they'll be able to have children in their late 30's or early 40's no problem, and feel shocked and betrayed when that doesn't turn out to be the case. It's true that plenty of women have children at that age without any problem, but plenty of others have fertility problems or can't get pregnant at all. I wouldn't want to stake my hopes on being able to have a baby in my late 30's or early 40's, only to find out that I couldn't. That seems like the most heart-wrenching thing in the world to me, if you really want to have kids.

I think it's a problem that we've been led to believe that our fertility lasts much longer than it does, and that we'll be able to have kids in our late 30's or early 40's no problem. It works out that way for some but for many it doesn't, and it's something I wouldn't want to count on personally. Women have the right to have children whenever they choose to but they deserve to have all the facts, and I think many women don't realize how quickly our fertility begins to decrease and that there's a substantial probability of being infertile if you're trying to conceive in your late 30's or 40's. I'm not saying everyone needs to get married at 22 and have a baby by 25 or even 30, but I do think women deserve to know the facts and the possible outcomes of waiting too long to have a baby when they are making choices about how to time having a career and having a family. I think that if women were more aware that fertility can be a problem after 35 or so, more of them would choose to have children sooner, even if it meant making career sacrifices. Women have the right to make whatever choices they want but they deserve to have all the information, and many women don't realize that conceiving in your late 30's and early 40's can be a problem. There are fertility treatments but they're not a magic bullet and there's no guarantee they'll work. Egg quality declines with age and there's not much that can be done for that, although IVF and ICSI can help some. If egg freezing ever really got perfected that would be a great thing for women in medicine and other professional women.

 

[MissionComplete]

I'm only planning on having kids third year and maybe for a little bit of fourth.

You know, PEDS and Ob/Gyn!!!

 

[Brickhouse]

I can't read all these posts and I'm sure someone already said this - but what about us who single? Do I go get knocked up and be a single mom now instead of waiting to find the right partner to have one, which will happen when it happens, which may not be until I'm in my 30's? Be realistic people. Humans are diverse species, we all have different realitiees, we do the best we can.

 

[pathdr2b]

So I was just wondering, do you think it's possible to have BIG family if you are going into medicine?

Absolutely, but you have to be mindful of the career specialities that greatly conflict with this like general surgery.

I'd personally love to have a family of at least 4 children (I have 1 now) and what I've found in talking to the doctors I work with that have 3 or more kids is that their careers aren't the problem, money is. In other words, that hour spent washing clothes and cleaning up after cooking everyday as needed with a large family, could be spent helping a child get a bath and/or doing homework while someone else does the cleaning. And you know there's NOTHING wrong with good ole' dad chipping in a helping hand too EVEN IF HE IS IN A BUSY CAREER TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!Imagine how much could get done around the house if men helped out more.

I think you ladies in this younger generation should DEMAND that the men in your lives do their part too! Don't shoulder all the responsibilities of running the household even if he does make more money than you. If he can't help out, then the least HE could do is hire/pay the housekeeper!

 

[pathdr2b]

I can't read all these posts and I'm sure someone already said this - but what about us who single? Do I go get knocked up and be a single mom now instead of waiting to find the right partner to have one, which will happen when it happens, which may not be until I'm in my 30's? Be realistic people. Humans are diverse species, we all have different realitiees, we do the best we can.

What if you haven't met "Mr.Right" by say age 35, what would you do then? And would somene PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE point me in the direction of the thread by the future male MD that reads "Help - I'm worried I won't find Mrs. Right before my viagra runs out?"

I tell you what I'd do if I hadn't met "Mr. Right" is ask an intelligent, smart, handsome, financially well off friend of mine to help me out and I think you KNOW what I mean. For me, I'd become a mother by ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Contrary tp popular belief, being a single parent in no way precludes a person from being a good parent. What about families where the Dad dies? Are these children doomed to tragic upbringings too?

 

[medic170]

I have to put in my conservative 2 cents. First, I think it is irresponsible and selfish for someone to purposefully bring a child into the world without the chance of having a mother and a father. Does that mean that a child cannot have a good upbringing from a single parent? Of course not, but every child deserves a chance at having both parents. I believe the healthiest environment for a child is to have a mother and a father, and most experts agree with this. there are enough family breakup risks out there, why start a child off at a disadvantage?

Also, I agree that women's careers are just as important as men's. I also think that every child deserves to have their mother at home during their first few years. There are countless studies showing the importance of mom staying home with young children, and dad is no substitute. The choice you have is to either wait to have children until you are done with school and can work part-time, or, wait on school until you have children and they are older. I know that this is an unpopular view, and please don't flame me for it. I just wanted to give another perspective, and I respect that not many agree with me(Dr. Laura agrees, but she's not very popular either). Anyway, my wife is in grad school, and she understands that, when the time comes for children, her career will be put on hold or part-time for a couple of years. Besides, being a mother is a much more important job than being a physician, and I don't think we give mothers that stay home enough respect or credit. Ok, I'll bend over now, let the kicking begin..and again, I mean no disrespect, this is my opinion, I don't claim to be an expert.

 

[pathdr2b]

Anyway, my wife is in grad school, and she understands that, when the time comes for children, her career will be put on hold or part-time for a couple of years. .

No flamming intended, but why don't YOU plan to work part-time or put you career on hold while the children are young?

And that stuff about Dad's not being substitute' s for Moms is just crap. Are you saying that women are inherently better parents to young children than men? This sounds painfully close to implying that men are better breadwinner's than women

 

[medic170]

No flamming intended, but why don't YOU plan to work part-time or put you career on hold while the children are young?

Because I can never be a mother, I am a man. I wish I could be.

Are you saying that women are inherently better parents to young children than men?

Yes, countless studies have been done showing that there are certain maternal instincts and connections that a man cannot substitute for. When in doubt, look at nature, mothers produce milk and men don't. this is the simplist and most obvious example I could think of. As for the breadwinner thing, no I do not think men make netter breadwinners, but in the first few years of a child's life, I think that is what the man should do. BTW, I also think they should help out at home as well, and men have an important paternal role to play for children that mothers cannot substitute for. I think that both mothers and fathers have unique roles they must play for their children that cannot be 100% substituted for by anyone else, its not sexist, its nature. If I were a woman, I would be damn proud to tell the world I was taking 2 or 3 years away from my career to be a full time Mom. I do not see anything demeaning about it, men should be jealous..seriously.

 

[pathdr2b]

When in doubt, look at nature, mothers produce milk and men don't. this is the simplist and most obvious example I could think of. .

Somehow I think even if you did have breast, you STILL wouldn't stay at home.
So under this view, married lesbians should be the best parents of all, right? And hey, they don't have the divorce rate of heterosexuals either!

 

[medic170]

Somehow I think even if you did have breast, you STILL wouldn't stay at home. !

Are you kidding, if I had breasts, I would never leave the house Ok, that was laim, I know

Somehow I think even if you did have breast, you STILL wouldn't stay at home.
So under this view, married lesbians should be the best parents of all, right? And hey, they don't have the divorce rate of heterosexuals either!

No, I said that children need a mother AND a father. 2 mommies are not better than 1. I would say, again, that it would be irresponsible for 2 homosexuals to bring a child into the world, because they are doing this out of selfishness and putting the child at a disadvantage by choice. Anyway, I give up. Listen to Dr. Laura if you'd like to learn more, but I doubt your mind will be changed. BTW, if I were a woman, and I had a child, I would absolutly stay home for at least the first 2 years, and like I said, I would be even more proud to be a mother than to be a doctor. Anyone who puts there career ahead of their children should choose to not have children, its not fair to the kids. That goes for men too. As it pertains to women, they(I think) need to be home with the kids for those first years, so I think that a woman should choose to wait to have children until she can choose to stay home and be a mom for a couple years. It takes away no power from women, the choice is yours. Perhaps, after those early years, the man can do more around the house so the woman can further her career, but I firmly believe that a child needs mom at home in those early years. Anyway, good luck with your career and your kids. I always anjoy a good rational discussion with intelligent folks

 

[pathdr2b]

Anyway, good luck with you career and you kids. I always anjoy a good rational discussion with intelligent folks

Me too!! And as for the breast thing, I guess a kid would prefer a "bald" breast to a hairy one!

 

[bearpaw]

america is so messed up. People plan on being single parents? With different fathers too? And thats ok?

yeah, i guess i am TOO old fashioned for this "progressive" forum. fortunately, most quality girls are too.

 

[jennie 21]

Anyway, my wife is in grad school, and she understands that, when the time comes for children, her career will be put on hold or part-time for a couple of years.

You know, for the most part I agree with your opinion that it's better for the children if someone can stay home with them for a few years...I don't agree that it has to be the mother, but whatever. My question for you is: what do you mean that your wife "understands" that "her career will be put on hold or part-time"? You make it sound like it's not up to her and she has no choice in the matter. I hope that isn't what you meant, and that this has been a mutual decision between you two that you BOTH have agreed upon and want. I think it's great if someone can stay home with the kids for a few years until they're old enough for preschool, but it should be something both people agree upon and decide TOGETHER. I plan to stay home with my kids when they're small but it's a decision my fiance (husband in 33 days) and I have come to together, and what we both want, not something he unilaterally decided and told me 'this is how it's gonna be'. I wouldn't stand for that, even as much as I love him, and part of the reason I love him is he'd never think of doing something like that (unlike some other guys I've known).

 

[lessismoe]

As it pertains to women, they(I think) need to be home with the kids for those first years, so I think that a woman should choose to wait to have children until she can choose to stay home and be a mom for a couple years.

Just curious what you think, Medic, about grandparents being the primary caregivers for the first few years.

 

[funkless]

Any ideas?

Yeah, adopt. That way, if you screw up the kid, it doesn't matter.

Just kidding.

My wife and I are in the middle of this debate. I start med school in August. She's a practicing veterinarian, so we kinda sorta depend on her income to pay our house note. She really wants to spend as much time caring for the baby as possible. Obviously, so do I. We were considering waiting until I'm in residency, so that we can afford to, you know, eat.

Any thoughts? Please help!

--Funkless

 

[funkless]

My mom is 52 and my sister 6....

Which isn't so bad, but just wait another decade, when you're mom is 62 and teaching your sister to drive and date.

My dad is going through this right now. I know he kicks himself twice a day. The kids are awesome, though. We all love them to death, but it is really hard for him, and I think that Ben, my half-brother, really misses out on a lot of traditional father-son stuff. (Dad can't wrestle or play catch; that's big brother Funkless's job when he's in town, and I am old enough to be his father.)

Dunno; maybe some family's make this work. Ours does, but not as successfully as we'd like.

--Funkless

 

[bearpaw]

I agree with you and medic170. It's really not fair to plan on being a single parent...and this definitely doesn't mean that single parents can be great parents, it's just that children need stability and it's irresponsible to even think about having children without a true father in the picture...however this has become all too common these days.

However I do think the man's role in the home has to be emphasized if the Mom is an MD...that's why I wonder how in the world does it work when both parents are MD's?

i dunno, both my parents worked full time while we were starting out. my mom still made our food and kept the house, me and my sis helped out around the house, and my dad did dad stuff. Everyone was busy and happy. I think it works great.

Families with two MD's will be reliant on hired help, which is fine as they can afford it. Most families with two working parents don't have that kind of income, so money is more of an issue especially when starting out. There seems to be alot of negative ideas about hiring help, but I don't see what the big deal is; they basically do all the chores you don't want to do, so what's not to love? (aside from misplacing your stuff and hiding contraband?).

so yeah, anyway, i think its fine to have two MD's in a house. I think what's not fine is expecting a man to be a mother and expecting a hard working woman to be a housewife too. Kids need fathers and mothers. At least i do.

as for the dude with a veternarian wife, i'd probably wait till i was finished school to have kids.

 

[NonTradMed]

Call me old fashioned, but I always think we should go back to the traditional family---no, I didn't say nuclear family, I said TRADITIONAL family. You know, when grandparents and aunts and uncles all lived under one roof.

The nuclear family for less developed societies is not tenable for many reasons, one of which is that the entire family would be dependent on the income of one or two workers. And, as some pointed out, occasionally half the able bodied workforce in the household is out of commission during the prime of her/his life.

When I was little (back in the Old Country ) my grandmothers took care of me. That was expected. Urban women were expected to work, just as men, and grandparents were expected to be the primary care giver until the child reached school age.

Kindergarten in east Asian societies starts at age 3, even in countries with heavy stay-at-home populations such as Japan. Kindergarten was considered an integral part of school. And kids who didn't go to kindergarten were seen as disadvantaged.

I guess my opinion is that there are many ways to raise children, many ways to define a family, and I have yet to find any consistent, reputable, peer-reviewed studies that have shown how one type of gender, work productivity or living arrangement to be negative on children.

The only stipulation for happy children seems to be happy adults who are in constant contact with their children, and I've yet to see definitive proof that two fulltime jobs precludes them from that.

As for the 'Heather has two mommies' scenario. All I will say is, yes, it's always better to have variety in family, but Heather will suffer from having no dad just as a white child will suffer from having no black friends. It's all in the exposure to others that makes a difference. Give me reputable data (aka, not crap touted by the creationist crowd) that proves that children raised by gay parents are gender confused, and I'll think differently. Otherwise, I feel sorry for kids who are brought up in such an environment that would feel sorry for kids with two dads or moms. Heck, I grew up in that type of environment where I was told to feel sorry for women who stayed home and actually wanted to be housewives.

Nah, no one has a magic formula for a perfect family other than to WORK HARD at it.

 

[Brickhouse]

Call me old fashioned, but I always think we should go back to the traditional family---no, I didn't say nuclear family, I said TRADITIONAL family. You know, when grandparents and aunts and uncles all lived under one roof.

The nuclear family for less developed societies is not tenable for many reasons, one of which is that the entire family would be dependent on the income of one or two workers. And, as some pointed out, occasionally half the able bodied workforce in the household is out of commission during the prime of her/his life.

When I was little (back in the Old Country ) my grandmothers took care of me. That was expected. Urban women were expected to work, just as men, and grandparents were expected to be the primary care giver until the child reached school age.

Kindergarten in east Asian societies starts at age 3, even in countries with heavy stay-at-home populations such as Japan. Kindergarten was considered an integral part of school. And kids who didn't go to kindergarten were seen as disadvantaged.

I guess my opinion is that there are many ways to raise children, many ways to define a family, and I have yet to find any consistent, reputable, peer-reviewed studies that have shown how one type of gender, work productivity or living arrangement to be negative on children.

The only stipulation for happy children seems to be happy adults who are in constant contact with their children, and I've yet to see definitive proof that two fulltime jobs precludes them from that.


Nah, no one has a magic formula for a perfect family other than to WORK HARD at it.

This makes the most sense to me - kind of my point too, there's no right way.

 

[medic170]

You know, for the most part I agree with your opinion that it's better for the children if someone can stay home with them for a few years...I don't agree that it has to be the mother, but whatever. My question for you is: what do you mean that your wife "understands" that "her career will be put on hold or part-time"? You make it sound like it's not up to her and she has no choice in the matter. I hope that isn't what you meant, and that this has been a mutual decision between you two that you BOTH have agreed upon and want. I think it's great if someone can stay home with the kids for a few years until they're old enough for preschool, but it should be something both people agree upon and decide TOGETHER. I plan to stay home with my kids when they're small but it's a decision my fiance (husband in 33 days) and I have come to together, and what we both want, not something he unilaterally decided and told me 'this is how it's gonna be'. I wouldn't stand for that, even as much as I love him, and part of the reason I love him is he'd never think of doing something like that (unlike some other guys I've known).

Your absolutley right. My wife understands because we have talked about it. I did not mean to sound like a pig. All of our decisions are 50/50, I don't think I rule the castle, and if I acted like i did, she would put me in my place in a heartbeat.

 

[medic170]

i dunno, both my parents worked full time while we were starting out. my mom still made our food and kept the house, me and my sis helped out around the house, and my dad did dad stuff. Everyone was busy and happy. I think it works great.

Families with two MD's will be reliant on hired help, which is fine as they can afford it. Most families with two working parents don't have that kind of income, so money is more of an issue especially when starting out. There seems to be alot of negative ideas about hiring help, but I don't see what the big deal is; they basically do all the chores you don't want to do, so what's not to love? (aside from misplacing your stuff and hiding contraband?).

so yeah, anyway, i think its fine to have two MD's in a house. I think what's not fine is expecting a man to be a mother and expecting a hard working woman to be a housewife too. Kids need fathers and mothers. At least i do.

as for the dude with a veternarian wife, i'd probably wait till i was finished school to have kids.

Are you saying that its better to hire replacement mothers and fathers (i.e. daycare or nanny)?

so yeah, anyway, i think its fine to have two MD's in a house.

I think thats ok too, but I don't think its ok for both (especially mom) to work full time during the early years.

 

[medic170]

Just curious what you think, Medic, about grandparents being the primary caregivers for the first few years.

I think that is fine, as long as you(hypothetically) don't expect to take the credit and reap the rewards of being a mother. It takes more than giving birth to be a mom, IMHO. Just don't be jealous if the child acts like grandma is mom, because she IS. They will develop a maternal bond that cannot be replaced or transferred after the early years.

 

[ms. a]

Are you saying that its better to hire replacement mothers and fathers (i.e. daycare or nanny)?

I think thats ok too, but I don't think its ok for both (especially mom) to work full time during the early years.

I have to whole-heartedly disagree with you. My daughter has been in day care since she was 12 weeks old and she absolutely loves it. She gets social interaction I could never give her, she learns to share early on, they teach her sign language (she's only 1.5 years old and already knows signs - no she's not deaf, they just do it), she's exposed to tons of different toys, and much more. It is NOT a replacement mother. She knows who her mother and father are. We are the ones to take her new places, hold her when she's sick, the ones she sees every single solitary day of her life. She loves us more than any day care worker, and it's obvious.

In all honesty, it would be very detrimental to her if I stayed home with her all day, every day. I would go nuts. I simply cannot be a stay-at-home mom. Same goes for my husband. The way it is now, she gets stimulated all day with kids, games, toys and lessons at day care, then goes home with a mommy and daddy who are ready to dedicate 100% of their attention to her until she goes to bed. That beats her tagging along with me all day as I try to run errands. While some women can do it, and I admire them, a stay-at-home mom is not always the ideal situation.

 

[pathdr2b]

america is so messed up. People plan on being single parents? With different fathers too? And thats ok?

yeah, i guess i am TOO old fashioned for this "progressive" forum. fortunately, most quality girls are too.

Single women who get pregnant on purpose or by accident have 2 choices: 1) Have the baby or 2) Abort. While I think everyone has the right to make their own reproductive choices, I'd rather be a single parent than have an abortion. Yeah, I guess I'm old fashioned too!

 

[MED123]

I would rather wait than to make my, hubby?s and the kid's lives hell--in turn our marriage. I and my hubby both will be 1st year students from the fall 2004. We want to take things one at a time. If by 34-35, after my residency I can't have babies (of course after trying a lot), then I think adopting kids is a good idea. In my families, I have a few career women relatives who became pregnant around 35 without complications. Well, that doesn't mean I don't have a chance. But these stories are definitely encouraging.

And, I certaily don't want to be like my parents, who got married early and my mom had me when she was 15. It was fun growing up as mom was like a friend until I became a teenager......at that time, I didn't want my mom to be acting like one...........I would have rather liked if she educated herself, had a normal growing up, and became a mother when she was ready. (sad story?caz it wasn?t her fault, it was cultural). That?s why she always wanted us (me and my sis) to educate ourselves, become independent and then marry and have kids etc. Luckily both I and my sis fell in love with guys (now husbands) who are very supportive to our devotion to education and careers as we are supportive about theirs.

There is just something not relevant, and I am embarrassed to say, but I was just wondering if other women feel this way.....as far as I know they don't. Not only that I don't want to have babies now caz I am not ready emotionally and financially etc......but, I am kinda scared about giving birth-actually the whole pregnancy thing. I wish I did not feel this way because I do want to have kids in the future, but scared. And, I want to get over it. I am glad that my hubby doesn?t want to have kids either at this time or anytime soon, otherwise I wouldve? been in trouble.

Back to my fear of pregnancy, I hear women saying it feels good to have someone growing inside etc, but noone said its not painful to deliver one. I haven't grown up on that I guess. I really wish I overcome this fear because I would rather like to have my own in the future than adopted if possible. I guess when I will be ready to have one, I will be fine-besides it would be 8 years from now (at 34). Many women dream about having babies one day from childhood, including my sis, but I didn?t. However, I dont' want us to be old folks with no kids and grandchildren and I value the family life.

So, yes, I want to have kids, but at a time, when I can devote time to raise them properly and enjoy the family life. I applaud and admire others who can handle all together, but everyone is different. For me, I want to enjoy my medical education being a student and doing things I like with my hubby and then start a family, raising kids (hope they will be mine, but if need be adopted).

 

[bearpaw]

Single women who get pregnant on purpose or by accident have 2 choices: 1) Have the baby or 2) Abort. While I think everyone has the right to make their own reproductive choices, I'd rather be a single parent than have an abortion. Yeah, I guess I'm old fashioned too!

yeah, i never had daycaregivers. my sister was older and my mom stayed home with her and when i was born my sis watched me. i didn't know because i was a baby, haha, but i asked my mum about it today.

i wouldn't want my kids raised by babysitters, but my parents plan on watching them for me, so i guess i am not worried at all. my wife can do whatever whe wants.

many single women get pregnant more than once. i would say probably 95% of the single women that get pregnant did so by accident. If you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to know how and why to BC. that is inexcuseable.

pathdr2b, i guess what sickened me about your post is that you said you would find some ideal guy to "help you out". The thing is, if i was a man, why the f#@$ would i want kids with someone other than my wife? so i could not get married to anyone else? i think having kids with another mother definately limits your options for finding a mate. also, would he know your intention? because if he didn't that is simply disgusting. I can't imagine a responsibile man saying "hey, lets have a kid out of wedlock" because he thinks that is a good idea. it is irresponsible and classless. just because its ok on tv it does not mean its ok in real life.

if this is case, what is wrong? is anything unjustifiable? can a man have sex with his daughter if she takes bc because that way no babies would be born? what if they both really get off on it? to each his own? no, its gross and so is what you suggested.

and if a single mother decides to go to med school, that's her problem. i don't "give her props" for being irresponsible. if she actually cared about having kids, she would have waited till the time was right.

 

[medic170]

Single women who get pregnant on purpose or by accident have 2 choices: 1) Have the baby or 2) Abort. While I think everyone has the right to make their own reproductive choices, I'd rather be a single parent than have an abortion. Yeah, I guess I'm old fashioned too!

Not true. Choice number 3 is to give the baby up for adoption. A much better alternative to abortion in most cases(lets not have the choice vs. life argument), and to being a single parent in some cases.

 

[medic170]

just because its ok on tv it does not mean its ok in real life.

I wish more people in our society would understand this. Excellent statement bearpaw.

 

[pathdr2b]

yeah, i never had daycaregivers. my sister was older and my mom stayed home with her and when i was born my sis watched me. i didn't know because i was a baby, haha, but i asked my mum about it today.

i wouldn't want my kids raised by babysitters, but my parents plan on watching them for me, so i guess i am not worried at all. my wife can do whatever whe wants.

many single women get pregnant more than once. i would say probably 95% of the single women that get pregnant did so by accident. If you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to know how and why to BC. that is inexcuseable.

pathdr2b, i guess what sickened me about your post is that you said you would find some ideal guy to "help you out". The thing is, if i was a man, why the f#@$ would i want kids with someone other than my wife? so i could not get married to anyone else? i think having kids with another mother definately limits your options for finding a mate. also, would he know your intention? because if he didn't that is simply disgusting. I can't imagine a responsibile man saying "hey, lets have a kid out of wedlock" because he thinks that is a good idea. it is irresponsible and classless. just because its ok on tv it does not mean its ok in real life.

if this is case, what is wrong? is anything unjustifiable? can a man have sex with his daughter if she takes bc because that way no babies would be born? what if they both really get off on it? to each his own? no, its gross and so is what you suggested.

and if a single mother decides to go to med school, that's her problem. i don't "give her props" for being irresponsible. if she actually cared about having kids, she would have waited till the time was right.

Gee wiz, where do I start:

1)NOT EVERY SINGLE PARENT GOT THAT WAY BY BEING IRRESPONSIBLE, GO THAT!!!!!

2) Both my fiance' and I have children from PRIOR MARRIAGES so this crap that having children prevents you from finding a mate is plain foolishness. And does your theroy about the classelessness of single parents include widows/widowers or are they given a special exemption through your highly judgemental personal preferences?

3) Is it better for a financially stable, mature single person to become a parent or 2 teenage parents that can barely make ends meet? The short answer is neither because the last time I checked, I don't personally have a heaven or hell to put them in for "immoral" behavior. But I guess you're different.

4) Finally if I were your wife, I'd be a little concerned about your reference to Dad's having sex with their children because one has to wonder why you'd "go there" just to make a point.

 

[pathdr2b]

I find it absolutely amazing to so many of you who want to become physicians are so dam judgemental. What happend to "judge not least ye be judged"? More improtanly, how in the hell are you EVER going to provide a decent stadard of care when you're so replused as bearclaw is, by the personal choices of others?

 

[militarymd]

Thank god the majority of women are reasonable!!!!

 

[militarymd]

God, I wish I had the self control to not have responded to this thread.

 

[militarymd]

and, yes, I'm being judgemental.....physicians make judgements everyday...that's our job.

 

[militarymd]

damn, I did it again.

 

[TwoLegacies]

Not true. Choice number 3 is to give the baby up for adoption. A much better alternative to abortion in most cases(lets not have the choice vs. life argument), and to being a single parent in some cases.

i think this is what she meant... you still have to HAVE the baby (ie choice #1) in order to give it up for adoption. i agree, let's not have that argument, but it couldn't hurt to think about it for yourself-- i would imagine that going through 9 months of pregnancy and then giving the baby away is a bit tough, too. it's probably not the right choice for everybody.

as for when to have children... i've been thinking about this a lot myself lately. i know i want to have kids, and i know i want to go to med school... i am nowhere NEAR having a husband (and, though liberal-minded, i'd want one before having children). it's hard to reconcile the two wants. it stresses me out!!

working mothers... i think i posted earlier that my mom and dad both worked full-time when i was young. now that i think about it, i was in day-care for a few years. i don't even remember that, except for getting in trouble for coloring in a book i wasn't supposed to color in. i think my mom has made a much better mother doing what she wanted to do than staying home with me. she's provided me with a good example of a really strong woman. and there hasn't been one day where i wished she didn't have a career. in fact, it never even occured to me until i was older that that was an option (not having a career). i think it's different for everyone-- do what makes you happy (whether that means staying at home or not), and if you are happy you'll have a much better relationship with your children.

 

[militarymd]

as for when to have children... i've been thinking about this a lot myself lately. i know i want to have kids, and i know i want to go to med school... i am nowhere NEAR having a husband (and, though liberal-minded, i'd want one before having children).

i think it's different for everyone-- do what makes you happy (whether that means staying at home or not), and if you are happy you'll have a much better relationship with your children.

As I said....thank god for reasonable women.

 

[militarymd]

As I said....thank god for reasonable women.

Damn, I did it again

 

[TwoLegacies]

As I said....thank god for reasonable women.

thank god for people who judge someone's opinion, yet offer none of their own to be judged. that's reasonable, right?

 

[pathdr2b]

As I said....thank god for reasonable women.

Too bad reasonable men are in short supply

As evidenced by this thread, it's too bad MEN seem more vested in the choices that WOMEN make in regards to birth. About the ONLY thing I can think of that a MAN can give birth to is a fart and a burp! Opps, I'm sorry, am I being unreasonable again?

 

[dsblaha]

Personally, I would not marry a woman who did not have a strong maternal instinct (the desire to have children, care for them, stay at home with them, etc.) and willing to put her career on hold for her children. I have no problem with women having a thriving career but not at the expense of their small child (util maybe 4 or 5 yrs old). My wife and I have discussed this alot and she really wants to stay at home but we are worried about financial situation. when the desire is strong enough people will find a way to make a situation work, even if it means only part-time or from home etc.

 

[medic170]

Personally, I would not marry a woman who did not have a strong maternal instinct (the desire to have children, care for them, stay at home with them, etc.) and willing to put her career on hold for her children. I have no problem with women having a thriving career but not at the expense of their small child (util maybe 4 or 5 yrs old). My wife and I have discussed this alot and she really wants to stay at home but we are worried about financial situation. when the desire is strong enough people will find a way to make a situation work, even if it means only part-time or from home etc.

Well said. I'm glad I am not the only one who feels this way. Not everything learned is learned in concious memory. The amygdala shapes how we behave and react to our environment, the basic emotions like anger and anxiety. The amygdala remembers our earlier experiences and it plays a large role in our adult mental stability and behavior, even if your not concious of it.

 

[militarymd]

Too bad reasonable men are in short supply

As evidenced by this thread, it's too bad MEN seem more vested in the choices that WOMEN make in regards to birth. About the ONLY thing I can think of that a MAN can give birth to is a fart and a burp! Opps, I'm sorry, am I being unreasonable again?

I gotta stop doing this, but I guess I'll offer an observation.

The reason that so many men behave in a manner that you consider unreasonable is because women allow it.

The majority of men only act and behave in a way that the majority of women allow. If women did not allow certain behaviors, that behavior would go away. I don't think anyone can argue that.

This is not the 15th century where men can just take a mate and have children. A man can only have children if there is a woman who will put up with him.

 

[dsblaha]

My wife was at a women in business conference and one of the speakers was the VP from chevron. Apparently she was bragging about only missing one day of work when her 1st child was born and about how upset she was that she had to leave a board meeting early because she went into labor. I can't imagine very many men would want to marry a woman like that. On the surface she seems heartless and un-nurturing (is that even a word?).

I guess what I am saying is it may be hard for exceptionally busy women (such as an MD) to find a husband who is willing to sacrifice not having a strong motherly presence in the raising of children for the sake of a career.

Then again maybe I am an anomaly.

As a side note, do not underestimate the power of the biological clock!

 

[pathdr2b]

A man can only have children if there is a woman who will put up with him.

Agreed!!!

However, I have a highly successful fiance' that fully supports my decisions in regards to balancing family and career. Maybe the real reason so many men want their wives at home for a few years is because their egos can't stand the idea of their wife being more successful than they are. Just something else to think about..................

 

[zeebs]

So many people want a cut-and-dried answer to the question of kids and medical school. I wish I had one too because I'm starting med school this fall with a 9 month old baby. I've done a bunch of reading, and I've gotten some very valuable insights for my particular situation from talking with several physicians who have had children throughout med school, during residency, during fellowship and while practicing medicine. Sometime during the first semster, I'll let you know how it's going for me.

This is a decision so complex and individual that there is no easy, straightforward, unambiguous answer. Simple black and white answers although attractive are often unrealistic, narrow-minded or unsophisticated. There are, however, clear answers to more narrow-range questions like: What will happen if I'm pregnant and I need to take gross anatomy?
So my advice is this: start figuring out what your unique issues are, and what questions they pose and start looking for those answers, both from inside you and from those who have been there. Then make a choice about when you want to start trying. Then be prepared for things to unfold however they unfold, according to some murky divine plan. Then adapt.

For me, I'm 35 with a husband and a baby and a 1 hour commute to and from school. For me some of the big questions are:
How will my choice to go to medical school affect my daughter's future well-being and self-esteem? How will this affect my marriage? Can I do more than just scoot by in medical school, can I survive and thrive? How can we financially swing this without burying ourselves in debt? When do I want to start trying to be pregnant again? What field of medicine explore that will allow me to have a family life? And dear God, who will do the laundry? I break each of these questions down into smaller issues and specific questions and start looking for how I'm going to manage those.

Some funny statements I read online:

"I plan to get pregnant during my (whatever)th year, so I can (insert good plan here)."

It's a lot easier to plan when not to be pregnant than to plan when to be pregnant. It can take minutes, months or years to happen once you officially decide to stop preventing pregnancy and you have surprisingly little control over this.

"I've timed and planned everything so I'll have the baby (insert convenient time) so I can (take the year off/take the summer off/do it during my research year when my schedule will be light/do it when my mom will be able to help/etc)."

Babies come when they will, and sometimes there may be other surprises. They can come 4 months early, 2 weeks late, you can be horrifically nauseated the whole time, on bedrest, or you can coast thru pregnancy like a big ship in attractive maternity clothing, functioning pretty much like normal but peeing a lot. Pardon me for mentioning it, but some people have miscarriages early on, which aside from the heartache also fouls up the timing. An endocrinologist I shadowed had !twins! during her fellowship. My baby's pediatrician had !twins! during her residency. After the baby is born you might refuse to leave the baby to go back to school for a while, or you might be ready to go back after a few weeks. You think you know yourself what you will and won't do, but it's one of those things where you can't, not really, not until you are living it. The baby will most likely be healthy (even at the old age of 35 ) or it might be ill (no matter what your age). The key to making it work is to be flexible and resourceful, because life doesn't operate according to plan.

Some true words:

MOM MD is a great site.

Quality time is just as important as quantity time with your children.

You will not be the first person at your school/residency to be pregnant or have a baby, whenever you do it. You will not be the only female doctor ever to manage it either. Plenty of women love their children are good mothers and have a full and happy professional life.

 

[lorelei]

I've noticed several people claiming that studies show kids do much better with a stay-at-home mom. I'm surprised to hear that, since all the studies I've seen have shown only minor effects which go in both directions. It appears that, given good parents and good care (regardless of whom it's provided by) it doesn't much matter whether a parent stays home or they go to day care or grandma's.

Here's a link to a publication called "Fact and fantasy: Eight myths about early childhood education and care/"
http://www.childcarecanada.org/pubs/other/FF/
It's well-written and has a very lengthy list of references.