Also, are most of you doing medicine for the money?
Assume that you will inherit at least 2 million - would you medicine again?
Assume that you will inherit at least 2 million - would you medicine again?
If you could do it all over, would you do medicine again?
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Ok I'll play along since I'm stuck in lab anyhow:
1. No can't say I'm doing it strictly for the money (was making decent, albeit not doctor, money before I switched career tracks). Though can't say compensation hurts.
2. Yup would still do it. If I get that nice of a starting nest egg (which I would aggressively grow through diversified investments), I would be free to pursue some of the riskier and "cooler" projects out there once I set up a lab. The money would just put the rest of my family at ease, but I'd still pursue the dual degree path since I'm a glutton for pain.
1. No can't say I'm doing it strictly for the money (was making decent, albeit not doctor, money before I switched career tracks). Though can't say compensation hurts.
2. Yup would still do it. If I get that nice of a starting nest egg (which I would aggressively grow through diversified investments), I would be free to pursue some of the riskier and "cooler" projects out there once I set up a lab. The money would just put the rest of my family at ease, but I'd still pursue the dual degree path since I'm a glutton for pain.
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With a 2 million inheritance, I would probably just invest most of it, then pursue a PhD in something that really interest me and move along at my own pace. I love learning, I love science, I don't love all the BS and misery that comes with medicine.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. A Ph.D. is it's own special kind of misery. You don't need to be pursuing a degree at a university to learn. Whoever taught you this is an idiot. Invest your money? In what? You know, it's a lot more complicated than that, right? Perhaps you should learn about trading.
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The fact that you can do phd at your own pace, and there is no Step 1,2,3 or match process to worry about makes it a crap load better from a lifestyle perspective than medicine, Remember with a 2 mill inheritance, I wouldn't have to worry about finding a job afterwards.
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No, I'm not doing it for the money.
No, I wouldn't do medicine again.
No, I wouldn't do medicine again.
Just curious, why wouldn't you do it again?
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Because it sucks
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Yes, but I'm definitely not in it for the money--it cost way too much to become a physician. I'll pay it off fine, but I'm not going to be living the high life. There are far better ways to make money, but chasing money is not a sustainable path to happiness, at least not for me. It's kind of like setting a goal of dating and marrying 10/10's--it might be nice in the short-term, but in the long run you want someone with depth and that you find fulfilling and fills you with joy/happiness (genuine joy/happiness--not the honeymoon happiness everyone has the first year or so of dating someone). You have to ask yourself if you'd still be happy sitting quietly on the couch reading a book or watching TV/the sunset with this person when you're both 80 years old. I can guarantee you at that age, unless all you seek is fame/power, you could care less if your wife/husband was a 10 and loaded like crazy--it's a nice perk certainly, but you'll care more about substance.
Chose your profession the same way. Don't live with regrets.
Chose your profession the same way. Don't live with regrets.
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Not in for the money, although the money is not bad.
Would do it again. Lots of miserable politics to deal with, but overall very rewarding profession.
Would do it again. Lots of miserable politics to deal with, but overall very rewarding profession.
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I'd do it again. I'm very happy with choosing medicine. When I was first deciding on this path, I never thought about money. I only knew that the money would be fine, but I had no concept of the relative salaries or even work schedules compared to other fields I could have pursued.
With a large inheritance I would still probably be here. I'd work less, though, and probably in my own private practice where I could customize things exactly as I'd want them.
With a large inheritance I would still probably be here. I'd work less, though, and probably in my own private practice where I could customize things exactly as I'd want them.
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The financial / employment security were two of the things that pushed me away from a similar field, but I love what I do and would not change it. The inheritance wouldn't matter, already choosing to go into one of the less lucrative fields because it's what I'm passionate about
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Not doing it for the money, but it's a bonus, and I otherwise wouldn't be able to pay off these loans.
I'd do it again... if I could go back with what I know now I would have approached the whole ordeal a bit differently.
I'd do it again... if I could go back with what I know now I would have approached the whole ordeal a bit differently.
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I think you'd have a pretty hard time finding a PI in any science field that would let you work in their lab casually at your own pace. Most of the kids I know doing MD/PhD were working similar hours in the lab to what we were doing in M3. Pressure for grant funding and lab space is intense.
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1) I think many doctors stay in the career without ever really thinking about why they're there. Maybe they could do medicine, so they did. Maybe they thought it was what their parents wanted for them. Many doctors are in medicine for the money, yes. (And before anyone here freaks out, I said many, not all, so take if for the arbitrary statement that it is). We all want to help people, of course. But you can trust that if pumping gas made 700k a year and required residency, people with 260+ USMLE scores, who were passionate enough to study assiduously for the boards in the first place, suddenly would be ardent and ignited about "helping people" fill their gas tanks.
Truthfully though, no, I do not believe most doctors are in it for money. But I do believe there is veracity and tenability to the argument that many young kids (early 20s) don't know what they want out of life when they make the "I wanna be a doctor" call, and probably do make the decision based on prestige/pecuniary elements.
2) Tough question because guaranteed there is not a single doctor who regrets his or her education. Medicine offers a lot of character growth and valuable life lessons. No, I do not regret going into it now that all is said and done, but the chance that I would ever go into clinical medicine is close to zero percent, and just the idea of it makes me want to hurl.
Hard to say this without foregoing anonymity but what the hell-- I made well over $2 million from my previous career and switched into medicine. My wife will be the first to say I'm a much happier person now, and I actually work less than I did before.
Would I do it again? Obviously, but I'm also very early in the process. I love med school because I'm amazed at how much I learn every day, and oddly enough I really enjoy being at the bottom of the totem pole again. There's a strange value in being "just of one the guys" that you sort of take for granted (I imagine this is why a lot of old rich men will say college was the best years of their life). Admittedly it helps to not have to worry about finances while going through this process.
I don't know that I'll enjoy being a resident or an attending, I'm sure there are many aspects I won't like at all. As of today, though, my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.
Would I do it again? Obviously, but I'm also very early in the process. I love med school because I'm amazed at how much I learn every day, and oddly enough I really enjoy being at the bottom of the totem pole again. There's a strange value in being "just of one the guys" that you sort of take for granted (I imagine this is why a lot of old rich men will say college was the best years of their life). Admittedly it helps to not have to worry about finances while going through this process.
I don't know that I'll enjoy being a resident or an attending, I'm sure there are many aspects I won't like at all. As of today, though, my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.
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Yes but only if I could have my current job.
No. I'd go into film.
No. I'd go into film.
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If I knew I'd inherit 2 million I'd do it. For me, a lot of the pressure in med school is having crushing debt but liking a really poor paying specialty. I think Im going to do it anyway, but that 2 million would really easy my mind. I hate the feeling that Im making a bad financial decision choosing something that interests me.
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I waffle on this question.
At the moment, yes I would go in to medicine again if given the choice to have a do-over.
Many times in the past, however, I have had second thoughts and even investigated alternative career opportunities. For the former, I am not sure what I would have done instead. Perhaps a PhD and run a lab, perhaps finance. For the latter, it simply is that I am too narrowly qualified for what I currently do to do much else, and have it make financial sense.
At the moment, yes I would go in to medicine again if given the choice to have a do-over.
Many times in the past, however, I have had second thoughts and even investigated alternative career opportunities. For the former, I am not sure what I would have done instead. Perhaps a PhD and run a lab, perhaps finance. For the latter, it simply is that I am too narrowly qualified for what I currently do to do much else, and have it make financial sense.
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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I'd do pharmacy instead. Did not do it for the money. Would quit my job tomorrow if you gave me $2 million, but I'd still do the fellowship.
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I'm at a D.O. school so take my response in that light. I'm a fourth year student getting ready to apply to ERAS right now. If I could go back I'd still tell myself to go to medical school. I was a slight hypochondriac and oddly enough going to medical school has made me less so. Seeing lots of patients with real problems helped my mindset and I personally no longer worry about that as much as I used to. I'm glad I got the knowledge to speak the physician language. Furthermore, a lot of my colleagues take their own personal health seriously and that has overall made me healthier than when I started medical school. Hopefully that continues past medical school. But I won't lie, studying for Step I and Step II is stressful and I've never gone through as much stress in my life studying for these things. Part of the stress probably comes from choosing D.O. school and knowing I'd have less room for error. Also I still feel like I have tons more to learn.
I don't think I ever did it for the money, but I wanted to make sure I'll be well compensated for my efforts before I started medical school. So far it looks like it should eventually pay off, hopefully that stays true into the future. If I inherited 2 million I'd still do medicine as well. Like I said I wanted the knowledge and want to keep learning more about medicine, even though I'm less than enthusiastic about a lot of the treatments we offer patients. It's nice to have some sense of purpose in your life and medicine definitely offers you the chance to contribute in a meaningful way, even if it feels like those moments aren't too common. I'd definitely limit my clinical time some if I had that much money, and perhaps I'd consider a specialty like pathology, pediatrics, or psychiatry more seriously.
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you really can't say it better than this.
Lol no way would I be in medicine or any full time job if I had a 2 million dollar inheritance at my disposal.
I didn't go in to medicine for the money but it is one of the perks plus job stability.
I would probably do medicine again if given a choice. However I have plans to get out of clinical medicine 5-10 years after residency and use my skills and education in a slightly different way. If I were forced to practice traditional clinical medicine for 30+ more years, then no I wouldn't do it again.
I didn't go in to medicine for the money but it is one of the perks plus job stability.
I would probably do medicine again if given a choice. However I have plans to get out of clinical medicine 5-10 years after residency and use my skills and education in a slightly different way. If I were forced to practice traditional clinical medicine for 30+ more years, then no I wouldn't do it again.
Could you elaborate as to why it sucks? I am in another "profession" and a lot of us hate it too....
What's terrible about clinical medicine?
The analogy an attending told me is that most days are like being a waiter in a restaurant; people are different but the food's the same.
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If you'd quit tomorrow with a 2-million bequest, does that mean the financial stability is keeping you in it. Because is anything really keeping you from doing pharmacy at this point / is that path actually closed to you.
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Lol I would def not do medicine if I had 2+ mil stashed away.
Regardless, my motivation for medicine probably peaked as a pre-med when I romanticized the field. As an MS4, I was really hoping to find a specialty which doesn't feel like a job but I've learned that not only is medicine a job (duh), it is often a pretty ****ty one.
Would I do med school over again? I made some great friends, there were a lot of ragers, went on fun trips, did a lot of cool stuff on rotations, felt like a real doctor on my AI, so yeah I would. Having said that I wouldn't recommend medicine to my kids.
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well my backup fantasy career was to write for Gawker, so....
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I don't think I'd do it again. Sometimes I don't even know how long I want to stay in the field. The only thing really keeping me in it right now is that I've invested so much time and money into it and I'm not sure what else I would do instead.
Even the field I'm applying to has kind of lost its luster for me. There is just too much getting in the way of making being a physician enjoyable. I'm not even in it yet to fully understand it, but seeing the attendings having to deal with so much non-clinical BS is discouraging. Everything these days is about hospital ratings, HCAHPS, and reimbursement is so low that attendings are packing their clinics and not even having time to spend quality time with the patients let alone even have time for lunch.
My eventual goal is to acquire enough business sense to run a successful private clinic where although I might take a hit financially, I will actually be able to practice medicine the way I envisioned it when I was naive little bitch.
Even the field I'm applying to has kind of lost its luster for me. There is just too much getting in the way of making being a physician enjoyable. I'm not even in it yet to fully understand it, but seeing the attendings having to deal with so much non-clinical BS is discouraging. Everything these days is about hospital ratings, HCAHPS, and reimbursement is so low that attendings are packing their clinics and not even having time to spend quality time with the patients let alone even have time for lunch.
My eventual goal is to acquire enough business sense to run a successful private clinic where although I might take a hit financially, I will actually be able to practice medicine the way I envisioned it when I was naive little bitch.
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I would do it all over again. For you though i would think twice especially if you have a 2 million inheritance coming and also because you are relatively old to start med school. Diminishing returns.
Also I didn't do medicine for the money. But I did it for the relative job security/demand and for knowing I wouldn't have to worry about money once I'm done.
Also I didn't do medicine for the money. But I did it for the relative job security/demand and for knowing I wouldn't have to worry about money once I'm done.
As someone that worked in finance for 10 years, I can tell you that your vision is a lot more practical than most doctors realize.
Most physicians are financially brain-dead though; we would routinely have corporate meetings about brainstorming creative new ways to steal money from docs. They make a lot of it and they have no idea what to do with it -- easy targets.
Obtaining appropriate financing for a clinic is absolutely attainable regardless of student loan debt (for some reason people think lenders care about this), and the fiscal viability of a non-volume based private practice is actually quite good in most markets.
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So what advice would you give in that regard? Take business classes? Hire a good manager? Honestly, I would love to learn more about how to run a successful non volume business in this increasingly high volume-based state of medicine.
That says a lot to me. You'd do it again, but you wouldn't recommend it to your kids....damn.
But yeah, working generally sucks, regardless of the job. I'm sort of jealous of PhD students/people who earn multiple degrees forever, because it seems to me that going to school is still hands down better than working many jobs.
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Entrepreneurs aren't as risk-averse as doctors generally are....medicine attracts people looking for a safe route. Entrepreneurs are anything but risk averse.
Ha, my legit dream job is in the arts. If I win the lottery tomorrow, I'd hands down quit corporate America/structured jobs forever to work in the arts. Life is too short to waste time on this bull**** if you don't have to.
Looking back at obtainable pursuits though, I'd probably have majored in Comp Sci/EECS and just worked straight out of college in California making six figures at age 22 without wasting time and money on grad school. Then maybe I'd work on start ups on my own pace, then exit and enter the corporate world when I feel like it, which is apparently achievable as a programmer.
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No, though the financial/job security was definitely a factor for me choosing medicine over another potential career.
At this point yes. I'd probably do the first few years but have no reservations about quitting and changing careers after 4th year or a year or 2 of residency if I didn't like it. Having the 2 mil to fall back on would actually be a reason for me to go for medicine. If things didn't work out I wouldn't have a 200k hole to crawl out of, I'd have 1.75 mil to fall back on until I found another career.
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Am I in it for the money?
Yes, I probably wouldn't have chosen medicine if it only paid 30k/yr. However, the reason why I chose medicine over any other high paying job is because I enjoy it.
Would I do medicine again?
So far as an M2, yes.
Yes, I probably wouldn't have chosen medicine if it only paid 30k/yr. However, the reason why I chose medicine over any other high paying job is because I enjoy it.
Would I do medicine again?
So far as an M2, yes.
Good point, but it goes even beyond that. I would see docs all the time that would take out a mortgage at a ridiculous interest rate because they haven't researched what a good rate is. A lot of lenders will start 1-2% above what they should offer (based on income, credit, etc.), and wait for them to object.
Well I never said it was terrible. I just have different career aspirations in that I don't want to be tied to clinical medicine forever. Financial freedom and personal freedom is my goal and I have interests that line up with my education and training that don't include working for a hospital or practice. There are plenty of challenges in clinical medicine these days and I think more people would be excited about a 30 year career if it weren't tied to following the rules of insurance companies and the politics of being in medicine these days. But again, I never said clinical medicine is terrible.
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4 years undergraduate, 4 years of medical school + residency. 4 years w/o working $200k-$300k in student loans. ADN can make $100k (I work with several that make over 100k and it's a 2 year degree) Let's compare them: ADN 6 years working = 600k, MD/DO in that 6 years, most normally can not work, $600k missed in working , plus the normal $200-$300k in loans (800k down) + most only make $50,000 during their residency. The money factor is there after the first 3-4 years of working after residency. Maybe even 4-5 years of working is just paying yourself back for the time invested for the last 12-13 years invested.
I don't see how anyone can do all of this for the "money factor". If physicians made any less it wouldn't be worth the 13+ year journey. What 20 years into the journey things get lucrative.
I don't see how anyone can do all of this for the "money factor". If physicians made any less it wouldn't be worth the 13+ year journey. What 20 years into the journey things get lucrative.
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Do you realize that investing and trading are two different things? It's ironic that you say the other person has no idea what they're talking about, point out how complicated investing can be (and it can be), but then tell them to read up on trading...
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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I don't really feel up for a third stint in grad school, assuming I could even convince a pharmacy school to accept me. But at this point, yes, I am in the midst of transitioning out. As with med school and residency, you have to apply for fellowship a year in advance. So I am applying now to start in July 2017. I could just quit now and kick back for the next ten months, but A) I don't really want to deplete my savings, and B) I don't want to screw over my chairman and colleagues by leaving abruptly in the middle of my contract. This is not like hiring a guy to flip burgers. They can obviously replace me, and they will, but the faculty hiring process also takes time. Even if I did resign tomorrow, I'd still be working for the next few months while they hired someone.
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You can dispense 'drugs' in most states (if not all) with your MD... Convincing an employer to hire you to do that might be another story...
QofQuimica
Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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1- I'm absolutely not doing it for the money, could have done something in healthcare with less student loan debt to be make 100K+ much faster
2- With 2 million dollars I would still absolutely stay in medicine, pay off my student loans, buy a nice house, and work 30ish hours a week as a psychiatrist without financial worry
2- With 2 million dollars I would still absolutely stay in medicine, pay off my student loans, buy a nice house, and work 30ish hours a week as a psychiatrist without financial worry
