If you could go back, would you do it again?

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As I'm looking at starting an MSTP, I was wondering what people who have more or less finished think looking back. As the title said, would you do it again, knowing what you do now about how the process goes? There was a similar thread in the general residency forum but a lot of their dislikes seemed to fall on the clinical side of things (dealing with patients) and a lot of what held people in their programs was their immense debt.

I know that people say you shouldn't start an MSTP unless you know for sure that you want your Md/PhD - until I read the beginnings of that thread (it's reaaally long), I thought I did. Anyway, I was hoping that you guys had a different experience, hopefully more positive. I have a strategy consulting offer that I secured as a backup in case I didn't get into any MSTPs but now that I've gotten both, I just want to make sure that what I have always thought I'm getting myself into and what I'm actually getting myself into will both make me happy.

 

[fantasty]

I'd probably do it over again, but it is a bit harder and sometimes more draining than I expected it to be. For instance, my original class is now in their second year of residency. And, myself and several classmates are in this limbo state of "will we defend this year, or will it be another year in school". And, the longer you're out of med school, the more you may dread returning to the wards (and sometimes residency). On the research front, it's also sometimes frustrating when things aren't going right, or when you see PIs struggling with grants.

However, I still think academic medicine is really the best fit for me and I'd probably want to do that even without the PhD. Plus, you add the benefit of not worrying about student debt as much. And, you have a greater opportunity to mature as an investigator. And, I'd like to think that the types of reasoning and investigation skills we learn in our research will be an asset on the wards. Plus, I'd also like to think that I'll be judged more on my research than on my grades in anatomy or biochemistry when it comes time to apply to residency 🙂.

I tend to overanalyze things and it sounds like you might, too. I believe it's best to think about things thoroughly upfront, but once you've made your decision to stick with it, just accept things and go for it full-bore.

Best wishes and good luck!

 

[geekgirl]

As I'm looking at starting an MSTP, I was wondering what people who have more or less finished think looking back. As the title said, would you do it again, knowing what you do now about how the process goes? There was a similar thread in the general residency forum but a lot of their dislikes seemed to fall on the clinical side of things (dealing with patients) and a lot of what held people in their programs was their immense debt.

I know that people say you shouldn't start an MSTP unless you know for sure that you want your Md/PhD - until I read the beginnings of that thread (it's reaaally long), I thought I did. Anyway, I was hoping that you guys had a different experience, hopefully more positive. I have a strategy consulting offer that I secured as a backup in case I didn't get into any MSTPs but now that I've gotten both, I just want to make sure that what I have always thought I'm getting myself into and what I'm actually getting myself into will both make me happy.

hello there.
i'm done with (almost) my now 8 year long trek though the md and phd track. i've had a blast and am looking forward to matching and being "a real person" again (i.e. taken somewhat seriously as a person, although i'll start as an intern). i truly loved this md/phd journey. and that is what this trail is. a true process. and i really must warn you, you MUST enjoy the process. the md/phd track is not an end-point focused endeavor.
i have to admit when i returned to 3rd year (clinical) and my former classmates were 3rd year residents (and during 4th year, some were fellows), i had a tiny (and truly my first) moment of "wow! this has taken some time". but that moment has passed and i must say that i am a better (or will be a better) physician, scientist, thinker, innovator, and hopefully leader of my field than i would have been without my 4 years of phd research. not only the scientific training, but the presenting, travel, conferences, and personal growth have facilitated this. i have been treated as an equal by leaders of my field and the validation and encouragement did much for my enthusiasm and inherent urge to understand more.
so, in summary, it's a long road. truly understand that. but it's also a tremendous and satisfying road. fulfilling. challenging. humbling. frustrating. but remarkably rewarding. but the one warning remains, set yourself up in a situation where you ENJOY the process and are not just looking at the end point. find mentors. find projects you love. things that keep you up at night. because then, it's really the best road of all.
just my little optimistic rant. but i do think even now, of where i would/could be had i not done this. but where i am now (and what that allows me to do) is far better than i would have had without those years of learning. but my mentor (thesis advisor) was stellar.
so for me - no regrets. i would do it again in a heartbeat.
but regardless, search your own soul. make your own goals (and timeframes). and see what fits.
best of luck!

 

[gbwillner]

only 8 years? That IS fast. Our average at Baylor is 8.5 (or so we are told), and that includes 1/4 of our students who are Engineering and get out in 3.

 

[nokhodi]

hi

 

[gbwillner]

Of most people in the program I know, about 1/2 or more say they would not do it again. an even greater percentage:
1. are very cynical and
2. are very burned out from research.

This is not limited to my institution, as many mudfuds go into surgical subspecialties and dermatology- and will no doubt enter private practice and do zero research.

here is where mudfuds have gone in the last 2 years:

http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~paik/match.html

I personally have enjoyed my experience- although I am only 6 years in and will also be jaded if I don't finish my PhD when I want- hopefully this coming fall.

Also, don't forget the average times to graduation are highly biased- they don't count people who have difficulties in the PhD and drop out.

 

[Rustico]

It is certainly not an easy track to take and I think that it is normal to question at some point whether going into a MD/PhD program was the right move. I questioned my decision quite often, but I never regretted it. If I had to do it all over again, I probably would. I am at the end of my road now and getting ready to start residency. I always heard that my PhD would open doors for me and I can now say that is definitely true. Having the extra training in research puts you “light-years” ahead of most of your peers in medical school. Some of this has to do with the fact that you are older and more mature, but most of it has to do with the analytical thinking abilities and other skills (e.g. public speaking, publishing papers) that you acquire while in graduate school.

This year my program will graduate 9 MD/PhD students. We will all go to academic centers for our residencies and I think that most of us will continue to do some kind of research in the future…I certainly will!

I 😍 SCIENCE!

 

[mdphd2b]

As I'm looking at starting an MSTP, I was wondering what people who have more or less finished think looking back. As the title said, would you do it again, knowing what you do now about how the process goes?

Hi there,

I'm a 6th year MSTP at Pitt, now writing up my thesis after 4yr of PhD (basically cause I wanna get out of this lab NOW). I would say yes, I'd do it again, but only if I could go back with the wisdom/insights that I have now. And I don't mean scientific knowledge. I mean just knowing the politics of getting a PhD, choosing an excellent vs. non-existent mentor, etc. I've had major issues w/my thesis advisor, making most of my PhD years lonely and miserable. I finally made it through, but not without a TON of support from other faculty and students. Hindsight is 20/20, and if I could go back I'd be a LOT more critical of potential thesis mentors and lab environments before joining the lab. 😡

With that said, med school was less painful for me at least! So yeah, I'd do it all again, with modifications 🙂

 

[Myempire1]

I am borderline on whether I would do it again. 1/2 the days yes... 1/2 the days no.

I am a 4th year student, so my old classmates are all matching today and graduating in a few months.I have a feeling this is the hardest mental part of the game.

Picking a good mentor, a fun lab, and enjoying life in and outside of lab is key to staying positive.

Hopefully, in 4 years, I will think it was worth it.

 

[Hard24Get]

I would definitely do it again. But only at Penn! And I got lucky with my advisor, but seeing what happened to some (PhD only) people, I would be even more cautious in selecting one. That being said, the vast majority of those leaving my program are happy and going into academic medicine. I would say the key to our happiness is the TLC given to us by our MSTP - they check up on us, fight for us, spot and blacklist bad profs, etc, etc, etc, all to mke sure we don't get gummed up in the works. So if you're still choosing, choose an ORGANIZED, hands-on program (like Penn)

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Ditto...if I were 8 years younger and faced with the decision to do MD/PhD, I would do it again. Granted, I was serendipitous at times and I had a great mentor who really went out of his way to support me. I loved the benchwork and the science. The only other option I would entertain is to do the PhD alone.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

I would definitely do it again. But only at Penn! And I got lucky with my advisor, but seeing what happened to some (PhD only) people, I would be even more cautious in selecting one. That being said, the vast majority of those leaving my program are happy and going into academic medicine. I would say the key to our happiness is the TLC given to us by our MSTP - they check up on us, fight for us, spot and blacklist bad profs, etc, etc, etc, all to mke sure we don't get gummed up in the works. So if you're still choosing, choose an ORGANIZED, hands-on program (like Penn)

Yes, picking an advisor is an extremely important aspect of your success as a PhD student. Short story, fellow lab mate who worked with another PI in another building on her project, started showing up down the hall in another PI's lab. Just in passing I asked her what was up, and she divulged that when she got back from vacation with family she found out that her project had been given to someone else!

Now, I'm not sure of all the surrounding details/contextual factors. But, that is not the first of that kind of story to come from that PI's lab. Picking a PI will make or break you.

-Salty

 

[Alexs42]

I have to say that I've had a great time in the MSTP program. Akin to my fellow pathologist MSTP'er (andy up there), the only other option is to do PhD alone. I would not do MD alone, especially with the hindsight of being in residency.

Alex